Bridge problems in Baldwin grand
The Piano Tuner
had splitting bridges. He has had his latest one for three years and I
tune it every 3 months. I discovered the splitting bridges after the
second tuning.
My client has been "to hell and back" with the dealer and Baldwin - but
- each new piano delivered has the same bridge problems. His dealer (in
business since the early 1900's) has gone out of business, and he has
received no help from the new dealer who "took over" the Baldwin line
from the failed business. The new dealer, by the way, is also a Steinway
dealer.
1 1/2 years ago, a new Baldwin SF-10 was delivered to the Steinway
dealer for my client to look at - in hopes that this one would be better
than the other three. I went with him and the piano was not prepared at
all - looks as if it had just been taken out of the crate - with a crate
bolt screwed into the bottom of the rim - no regulation - no tuning -
and the finish was a mess. While at the store, I checked out the other
pianos, several of which were various sizes of new Baldwin grands - all
of which had splitting bridges. I sent a letter to the dealer,
explaining why my client did not want the new piano, and expressed my
concern over the other Baldwin grands. I received a call from the
dealer, wondering just what my credentials were, since he had his
"Steinway technician of 35 years" look at all the Baldwin grand bridges
with a magnifying glass and couldn't find anything wrong with any of the
bridges.
My question - after being long-winded - is: Have any of you run into
problems like this - and has Baldwin done anything to correct this
problem?
Other than the bridge problems - my client's piano sounds and plays
great, and after tuning it yesterday, those typical tight and jumpy
Baldwin tuning pins have finally calmed down. It has had a climate
system since new, and the pitch over the past year has remained fairly
steady.
My other question -- The bridges are slowly getting worse - but with no
apparent effect on sound or tuning yet. What can I expect over the next
5-10 years, if anything?
Any help would be appreciated - and any new information on new Baldwin
grands would be great.
I'm finished now.
Rick Clark
curiosity aroused. I am curious to know exactly what your definition
of "splitting bridges" is in this case? It seems to me that there is
something not quite adding up, especially with the contradictory
observations of the Steinway tech. Either that, or Baldwin has managed
to create multiple failures way outside the laws of chance....
Rick Clark
George Gilliland
the bridge. Strictly speaking, they're not splits but areas where the
laminations are separating (as you probably know Baldwin uses a
vertically laminated bridge without a cap). These splits occur at random,
and aren't necessarily located where a pin is driven in.
I was worried about them at first, but they haven't got any worse in the
18 months I've owned the piano. Being obsessively attentive toward all
aspects of my beloved Baldwin, I actually probed these splits with an
X-Acto knife blade, and it seems that none of them are deeper than a
couple of millemeters. . . INO, it's delaminating only near the surface,
not clear through, which would indicate a response to changes in
humidity.
These bridges appear to be bent into shape and laminated simultaneously,
so the tendency to de-laminate is probably the greatest when the bridge
is new and then declines as the wood settles down. . . these are very
densely laminated bridges, so in theory they should hold up better than
most over time. . . I certainly hope this is true, for my sake as well as
your client's. . .
G.G.
The Piano Tuner
Sorry I don't have an answer for you, but this case does have my
curiosity aroused. I am curious to know exactly what your definition of
"splitting bridges" is in this case? It seems to me that there is
something not quite adding up, especially with the contradictory
observations of the Steinway tech. Either that, or Baldwin has managed
to create multiple failures way outside the laws of chance....
I realized when I posted my note that I hadn't been specific as to the
"splitting bridges" -- so I'll try to explain.
The splitting is NOT as you would see in, say, an old upright - where
the upper treble bridge sometimes cracks at the bridge pins - or in a
bass bridge where the bridge pins have shifted.
Instead, the "splits" are actually the tenor/treble bridge splitting
apart vertically - where the bridges are laminated. So, in other words,
Baldwin's vertically laminated bridge is splitting apart.
On this particular piano, I can see splits in the lamination in many
places - not just one separation, but many. In one area, approximately
near F(45) - where the strings cross the bridge - the split is wide
enough for me to insert my business card.
I'm not sure if it's a case of bad glue, bad design, or what. But, the
fact that I saw this on the other new Baldwin grands at the dealer
indicates to me that this is not an isolated case. Granted, the
"incident" at the dealer was a while ago, and maybe Baldwin has changed
its design.
As far as the Steinway tech checking the piano over - I got the sense
when I talked with the dealer on the phone that he wasn't telling me the
truth about that - he was VERY condescending. He ended up telling me
that my client "should not have bought a Baldwin - he should have bought
a Steinway" - to which I replied - "But, he DID buy a Baldwin - and
there's something wrong with it."
But that's another story. Let me know if this makes any sense.
Fritz Owens
them entirely and contact the Baldwin factory direct. They have a
reputation of trying to make things right with every customer. Looks
like they want to make things right by delivering new pianos to your
customer but there is apparently something going on here that they
don't know about.
It could be shipment problems as opposed to building problems but I
know very little about that aspect of the business. I wish you well.
--
Fritz Owens
President
Fritz Owens Studios, Inc.
4819 Walmsley Ave.
New Orleans, LA 70125
Phone: 504-865-7027
Fax: 504-865-9630
Web Site: http://www.owensstudios.com
fritz...@home.com
fritz...@bigfoot.com
fo...@gnofn.org
----------------------original message below------------
Rick Clark
>But that's another story. Let me know if this makes any sense.
Thank you, yes it makes perfect sense now. As the big Baldwin dealer
in this area closed up several years ago, I very rarely see new
Baldwins, and I hadn't seen any with the type bridge you mention.
What an unfortunate situation for your client. The type of bridge you
describe (vertical laminate without a cap) sounds like a problem
waiting to happen. Though no longer waiting, apparently. Intuitively
speaking, I would call it a design flaw. It just doesn't seem like a
type of copnstruction that would hold up well under the stresses
involved.
Rick
George Gilliland
Baldwin's piano business: i.e.: what measures they're taking to keep their
brand alive and well? Their management practices are a total mystery. Maybe
someone who's knowledgable can lend some insight.
I never had much interest in Baldwin till I bought a used L (purely as an
economic comprimise) the year before last. . . since then I've developed a
great deal of affection for this piano. In spite of a few flaws, it's given
me much enjoyment. As I've voiced and regulated this instrument, all my
assumptions about the "loud" or "nasal" or "percussive" Baldwin sound have
since been dispelled. These The Baldwin Artist grands (from the R up)
represent some really great old designs (IMO), that can indeed be rich,
singing and mellow if given some care. . .
Better hammers, some action refinement, a few modifications to the plate to
fix some minor termination problems, and more attention to detail in all
areas are all that's standing between these pianos and greatness (again,
IMO).
But the company seems to be languishing terribly, not only in terms of
marketing, but also in terms of quality control. The new ones hit the
showroom floors in truly sorry condition. More than once I've seen people sit
down to them, play a few chords, wince, and move on to a Yamaha, or worse, a
Young Chang. . .
Is Baldwin gonna go out of business? That would be a shame. That would
obviously leave only two choices for someone who wants to buy a good,
rock-maple American grand: Steinway and Mason & Hamlin. . . both very
expensive instruments.
G.G.
MidiOpera Co.
> I never had much interest in Baldwin till I bought a used L (purely as an
> economic comprimise) the year before last. . . since then I've developed a
> great deal of affection for this piano.
> Better hammers, some action refinement, a few modifications to the plate to
> fix some minor termination problems, and more attention to detail in all
> areas are all that's standing between these pianos and greatness (again,
> IMO).
I have a similar year L - I agree entirely.
I've also been considering 'trading up' to a 7' for a business deduction
that appreciates. As much as I like these instruments, recent
discussions have me looking for a Steinway, Yamaha or M&H. Until I make
that move, the L is getting it's daily work out.
The older vintages (like my '57 R) are beautiful. None of the
construction comprimises like laminated parts formerly made of solid
woods.
It makes you thing twice before buying any new piano. I've had the L for
11 years. This is the first I've heard of the bridge problem.
RS
--
Robert Steinberg
MidiOpera Co.
http://www.evcom.net/~midiopra/
http://www.tcol.net/~midiopra/
A4...@webtv.net
Piano Tuner
before moving from the area. The first grand treble bridge was split
wide open and a repair was attempted (I suspect by the dealer). The
repair consisted of excessive amounts of epoxy plastered on the bridge
and covering some strings, I guess you might call it a "panic repair"
gone wrong.
Considering what we have witnessed, it certainly appears to be a design
flaw.
The Piano Tuners client has gone above an beyond as far as being
reasonable and patient.
Lets hope that Baldwin solves the problem and can get back on track. We
can not afford to lose another fine piano builder.
A441
Dave Zappa
news:3877e5b9...@news.mindspring.com...
The Baldwin Artist grand series uses a vertically laminated bridge, but
fails to cap it (I assume for cost reasons). George has found that his
splits are not terribly deep, and I hope they don't get worse over time.
I've seen many artist grands with this problem so I'd agree woth Rick it's a
design flaw. (If you're still lurking Frank maybe you can make a suggestion
to improve this design.) In any case, if you have bridge splits the
warranty from Baldwin is 25 years on this part and the dealer is responsible
for labor for 10. I would suggest your client get a copy of their warranty
along with the sales ticket & your report of bridge condition and head down
to the Attorney Generals office if Baldwin and the dealer aren't giving them
any satisfaction. You'd be suprised how fast things can be resolved when a
the state finds out a dealer and manufacturer aren't honoring warranties.
dave
--
Retail salesperson formerly representing 17 different acoustic &
digital piano brands. Support your local service-oriented dealer.
Opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect the
opinions of my employer.
To reply by e-mail please remove the "SPAMTHIS" from my address.
George Gilliland
carefully. I've played several, one of which the dealer spent considerable time
with, as it was frequently loaner for recitals. . . It was beautiful. I mean
really up there with a B or a BB (IMO). The rest were horrible: Out of tune, no
voicing, heavy dampers, shipping abuse. . . etc. All that stuff that can be
fixed, but how can you buy something like this?
On the other hand, a used one is I'm sure preferable in every way, as their
touch really improves with time, and you can usually get one for about 50-65%
retail. This represents a huge bargain compared to a S&S or M&H, which is why I
say it would be such a shame if Baldwin closed up. It would immediately deny
people access to a reasonably priced American grand.
BTW, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a vertically laminated bridge. Not
only do they transmit sount better, but also they're virtually indestructable if
built properly. Many quality manufacturers (including Yamaha) use them.
Something obviously went horribly wrong with the bridges discussed here. . .
either poor seasoning of wood or poor clamping and gluing. They probably weren't
aged and exposed to climite swings before installation (as they properly should
be). . . I'm sure a visit to the Baldwin factory would be a scary experience.
G.G.
MidiOpera Co.
>
> On the other hand, a used one is I'm sure preferable in every way, as their
> touch really improves with time, and you can usually get one for about 50-65%
> retail.
Indeed, the SF10 I've been looking at has been on consignment for some
time. It has some finish problems that don't bother me but make for a
hard sell. It is a 1978 vintage. I'd would prefer an eariler vintage
rebuilt by someone I trust (a few members of this ng are rebuilders I
think I can trust). There's not much to choose from here in Stuart, FL
as far as rebuilt pianos are concerned. In fact the few available are
really quite poor.
This represents a huge bargain compared to a S&S or M&H, which is why I
> say it would be such a shame if Baldwin closed up. It would immediately deny
> people access to a reasonably priced American grand.
Again I'm in total agreement. At the same time, I am concerned with
investment value. It appears the S&S, M&H and even Yamaha have a better
10 year valuation curve than a similar Baldwin.
>
> BTW, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a vertically laminated bridge.
> Something obviously went horribly wrong with the bridges discussed here. .
> . either poor seasoning of wood or poor clamping and gluing. They probably
> weren't aged and exposed to climite swings before installation
Is your bridge verticle laminations as opposed to a 2 piece design ie.
capped? Mine is capped. It would be nice to know if the problem is
isolated in a few instruments, many over a period of time or a genuine
design flaw.
BTW, the '57 R has solid - non capped or laminated - bridges.
Dave Zappa
news:3878DC4E...@worldnet.att.net...
> Is there anyone lurking here who has any inside information on the state
of
> Baldwin's piano business: i.e.: what measures they're taking to keep their
> brand alive and well? Their management practices are a total mystery.
Maybe
> someone who's knowledgable can lend some insight.
I can give you a little insight based only on working in a Baldwin
dealership for 10 years, meeting some of the parties involved in Baldwin's
management & just watching what they've been up to. My OPINIONS are
speculative and should be read and interpreted as such. A brief history
lesson: Baldwin P&O underwent a leveraged buyout from two top managers of
Baldwin United in 1984 during Baldwin United's bankruptcy. Those two men
grew Baldwin & bought out Wurlitzer in1986, their chief competitor and
making them the #1 selling piano in the US in the early 1990's.
Much of their success was due to dealer relations, they had a financing arm
that gave very liberal terms and supported the dealers with good programs
designed to sell pianos. They recognized that this is a "mom and pop"
business that relies on good business relationships. They also didn't have
to compete against the Asians in the early years, they had to compete
against Aeolian (technicians may laugh now...)
Both men had retired by the mid 90's, and the successor to run the company
came from outside the industry & is a very personable lady named Karen
Hendricks. The changes that Baldwin has gone through over the past 6 or 7
years have been significant. They sold off the dealer financing, closed the
grand factory in Conway & moved production to Trumann, consolidated the
dealerships (most Wurlitzer dealers were cancelled that didn't also handle
Baldwin), replaced most of the industry experience in top management with
Proctor & Gamble execs.(Hendrick's former co.), sold the Juarez action
facility, leased a factory nearby & took a number of other steps to increase
profitability. For the most part it hasn't worked, it seems every time
Music Trades reports on company earnings Baldwin is losing money. There has
been a little bit of shareholder revolt as well on the part of at least one
minority owner. They have had some profitable quarters due to the sell-off
of assets (like the factory & dealer receivables). If you want my opinion
they are ripe for a buy-out from an Asian manufacturer. I applaud Ms.
Hendricks for taking steps to improve profitability & keep Baldwin
independent, but the bottom line is they are a mass-production piano
manufacturer competing with some very heavy players with deeper pockets.
> Better hammers, some action refinement, a few modifications to the plate
to
> fix some minor termination problems, and more attention to detail in all
> areas are all that's standing between these pianos and greatness (again,
> IMO).
Yep - they are very close to making a great piano. IMO they need to reduce
or eliminate production of the verticals to concentrate resources on the
grands (their strength). Even if that never comes to fruition they should
improve the materials in the grands - cap the bridge, use a Renner action
instead of one made in Mexico, & use a rock maple rim instead of
poplar/"select" maple). Those three refinements would improve the already
good performance of their grands.
> But the company seems to be languishing terribly, not only in terms of
> marketing, but also in terms of quality control. The new ones hit the
> showroom floors in truly sorry condition. More than once I've seen people
sit
> down to them, play a few chords, wince, and move on to a Yamaha, or worse,
a
> Young Chang. . .
I think dealers are getting a little lazy with prep with the way Asian
pianos show up on the doorstep. I can't fault Baldwin for the condition of
the pianos on the dealer floor, other than to say they could prep them a
little better at the factory.
> Is Baldwin gonna go out of business? That would be a shame. That would
> obviously leave only two choices for someone who wants to buy a good,
> rock-maple American grand: Steinway and Mason & Hamlin. . . both very
> expensive instruments.
What's a "rock-maple" grand? Baldwin is too well-known a name to go
completely under, but my guess it within the next 24-36 months they will be
owned by someone else.
Dave
--
Retail salesperson formerly representing 17 different acoustic &
digital piano brands. Support your local service-oriented dealer.
Opinions expressed are my own and do not reflect the
lflet...@my-deja.com
>
> This represents a huge bargain compared to a S&S or M&H, which is why
I
> > say it would be such a shame if Baldwin closed up. It would
immediately deny
> > people access to a reasonably priced American grand.
>
Don't forget the Charles Walter. American made, maple rim, Renner
action - a fine piano that is very reasonably priced.
Larry Fletcher
Pianos, Inc.
Atlanta, GA
Dealer/technician
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Dave Zappa
My latest edition of Music Trades arrived in the mail today and two Baldwin
items were mentioned.
#1 The Baird Family Group (of Buffalo, natch...) purchased 10% of Baldwin's
common stock for $8.22/share as an investment. "It just seemed like a
reasonably cheap stock" said Brent Baird who described himself as a private
investor. They may seek representation on Baldwin's board.
#2 Baldwin announced intentions to sell off the remaining part of their
retail financing arm (Keyboard Acceptance) and leasing (Signature Leasing)
to Duetsche Financial for $35 mil. Karen Hendricks, Baldwin CEO commented
"In keeping with our pledge to enhance shareholder value, our board of
directors is actively considering a stock repurchase program which, if
approved, will be announced at the time of closing. The remainder of the
proceeds from the sale will be used to reduce Baldwin's debt levels"
Baldwin closed at $8/share, down 17% for 1999. It closed at 9 1/16 today.
I support Ms. Hendricks ongoing actions to "enhance shareholder value", and
ultimately I think it will bring a bid to purchase the whole enchillada.
They have an excellent reputation, established distribution network and a
grand piano that (with a few tweeks) could rival the best. I'm calling my
broker in the morning to let him have a peek.....
Dave
--
Retail salesperson formerly representing 17 different acoustic &
digital piano brands. Support your local service-oriented dealer.
Opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect the
George Gilliland
pretty nice.
The Baldwins that I've been told to avoid (by several tuners) are the ones
made during a time in the late 80s (maybe early 90s?) when Baldwin had
taken some huge financial losses on some investments it made in some
unsavory savings and loan companies that went bankrupt. Supposedly the
company was in financial disarray then, but has since "recovered."
But there doesn't seem to be any distinct pattern to their defects. There
seem to be more now then ever. They don't seem to have any marketing or
distribution strategy at all. And I expect their factory help comes and
goes and is poorly trained at certain intervals, which probably the cause
of the bad bridges.
You have to remember working in any piano factory is has got to be reall
drudgery for most people, even people who work at Steinway. So management
has to be clever and sympathetic to get consistent results. . .
G.G.
The Piano Tuner
" . . . they are very close to making a great piano. IMO they need to
reduce or eliminate production of the verticals to concentrate resources
on the grands (their strength)."
I agree they should reduce, but not eliminate, production of the
verticals. This way, maybe they can improve their grands, and ALSO
improve what verticals they do make. There's a big market for good
verticals out there.
When people ask me to recommend a brand - I always ask them first what
brands they know of. The top recognizable names, at least in my area,
are Steinway, Baldwin, Yamaha and Kimball. (And, a bit of-topic -- did
anyone else celebrate when Kimball stopped making pianos?)
..
Remember - Stay In Tune
b...@thepianosource.com
Kimball seemed to go without so much as a ripple as far as the buying
public was concerned. Imagine, being the centerpiece of the LA
Olympics to nothing!
Baldwin, from an outsider's point of view, seems on the verge of
vanishing. Too much reliance on name brand equity with most people who
were really stuck on that name growing older and out of the buying
market and too little reliance on a better product. Everytime I see a
big company selling off the profitable parts of a business to try to
save the unprofitable, I have to think of a sinking ship. Stopping
using the plates was an example. Certainly not because they were bad
plates as Steinway got their plates in the same location and has
bought that company now. But to think that you could get the same
quality plate from Brazil and having them shipped then to Arkansas for
less money than the maker down the street, is one of those dreams that
don't jibe with reality. Now selling off the profitable financing arm
to Deutsche Bank seems to be the last straw. None of us, at least I
don't, want to see Baldwin disappear. Maybe it is simply to replace
the soap people with piano people again! Of course nothing is simple.
--
Bob Shapiro - - located in paradise (southwest Florida)
A retail salesperson dealing in major brands with years of
experience in normal retail,in college and armory promotions, etc.
Represented most major and minor brands in the past
Currently representing Kawai, Petrof, Kohler & Campbell, Samick, Technics.
For credentials and also for the answers to many of your questions please see
http://www.thepianosource.com
Don
>Dave Zappa wrote:
>
>
>When people ask me to recommend a brand - I always ask them first what
>brands they know of. The top recognizable names, at least in my area,
>are Steinway, Baldwin, Yamaha and Kimball.
>(And, a bit of-topic -- did
>anyone else celebrate when Kimball stopped making pianos?)
>
Did I miss something?
When did Kimball MAKE pianos? I used to have a friend who had a PSO in his
music room with the name Kimball. It looked exactly like a "studio" piano.
However, when I played it, I knew that it was only a PSO (piano shaped
object) and not really a piano.
D*
--
www.calldon.com/shadow.htm "Remembering Shadow"
A Tribute To The Sweetest, Most Perfect Dog In Heaven
LFletc6143
>
>When did Kimball MAKE pianos?
I sold Kimball pianos going all the way back to the late 60's.
Most of what Kimball built were verticals, pretty cabinets on mediocre pianos,
but reasonably priced. I always valued them for just what they were: Many Dads,
being the cheap, self centered slobs that men can be, were too stingy to pay
much for a piano, because it meant fewer toys for *them*. But Momma wanted the
kids to have lessons. It had to look nice in the room, and be cheap enough to
get old stingy to let go of the money. Now, little Suzie got to have piano
lessons.
Sure, it wasn't a professional grade piano. Sure, good pianists would turn
their noses up. But little Suzie got to learn. People who love the piano should
sing the praises of companies like Kimball to the rafters.
What hurt Kimball was the advanced player who was to cheap to buy a good piano,
so they bought a Kimball, and then bashed it because it wouldn't perform like
the piano they should have bought.
In spite of that, there were several models that Kimball built in their later
years that were actually pretty nice. The 6' 7" Kimball grands if properly set
up were darned good. The Grand Ole Opry in Nashville used them for years, and
they sounded and played great. The best series of consoles and studios they
were building in the last 4 or 5 years they built were far better than the poor
quality flakeboard boxes that Yamaha is turning out of Thomaston.
Larry Fletcher
Pianos, Inc.
Atlanta, GA
Dealer/Technician
The Piano Tuner
"People who love the piano should sing the praises of companies like
Kimball to the rafters."
Okay, you asked for it.
The Kimball Song - A Song of Praise
(sung to the tune of "Oh, What A Beautiful Mornin')
There's a dull buzzing sound in the piano-
There's a dull buzzing sound in the piano-
The action is mush and the keys just won't play-
This must be a Kimball I'm tuning today.
Oh, what a beautiful lid hinge
Oh, what a beautiful lyre
I got a wonderful feeling
Let's set this Whitney on fire.
All the flange screws are loose and there's clicking-
All the flange screws are loose and there's clicking-
The keys are all sunk -- the sustain pedal sticks-
There's nothing some gas and a match will not fix.
Oh, what a beautiful lid hinge
Oh, what a beautiful lyre
I got a wonderful feeling
Let's set this Whitney on fire.
All the tuning pin coils are rusted-
All the tuning pin coils are rusted-
I've broken three strings -- but I've only tuned four-
What a day this will be -- only two Kimballs more.
Oh, what a beautiful lid hinge
Oh, what a beautiful lyre
I got a wonderful feeling
Let's set this Whitney on fire.
George Gilliland
That's great 8>)) !
G.G.
LFletc6143
>
>G.G.
>
>The Piano Tuner wrote:
>> Larry Fletcher wrote:
>>
>> "People who love the piano should sing the praises of companies like
>> Kimball to the rafters."
>>
>> Okay, you asked for it.
>>
>> The Kimball Song - A Song of Praise
>> (sung to the tune of "Oh, What A Beautiful Mornin')
Great! I guess you've read my odes to the Dampp Chaser, to the tunes of
"America" and "The Start Spangled Banner". We need to go to Nashville and tell
them to *move over and let the big dogs on the porch!*
(Seriously, I *do* hope you understood the reason I said what I did, which is
all the "little Suzies and little Johnnies" who would never have had the chance
to play piano had their not been a cheap one out there that their parents would
buy)
Radu Focshaner
>Many Dads, being the cheap, self centered slobs that men can be, were
>*them*. But Momma wanted the kids to have lessons. It had to look nice
>in the room, and be cheap enough to get old stingy to let go of the
>money. Now, little Suzie got to have piano lessons.
1.Old stingy is a great spender - the bank took back his VISA.
2.Old stingy was clever than you might guess : he got the money for the
piano from his mother ("only 10 easy installements") as her investment
in the kids education.
3.Now Old stingy plays the cheap piano and curse every moment.
4.Old stingy stopped polishing the piano furniture every day as a
punishment for the piano's poor performance.
R.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Rob Hoffman
Those extra springs in the action (Langer, I think) really made a difference
on repetition. It held a tune extremely well too. It was one of the late
models. I traded it on a Clavinova about 5 years ago so I could do MIDI. I
was heartbroken within a week. I tried to return it and get my trusty
Kimball back but the store had sold it so I was stuck. (That's what you
get for having it tuned right before trading it in.)
Rob
LFletc6143 <lflet...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20000117120248...@ng-fx1.aol.com...
> >Did I miss something?
> >
> >When did Kimball MAKE pianos?
>
> I sold Kimball pianos going all the way back to the late 60's.
>
> Most of what Kimball built were verticals, pretty cabinets on mediocre
pianos,
> but reasonably priced. I always valued them for just what they were: Many
Dads,
> being the cheap, self centered slobs that men can be, were too stingy to
pay
> much for a piano, because it meant fewer toys for *them*. But Momma wanted
the
> kids to have lessons. It had to look nice in the room, and be cheap enough
to
> get old stingy to let go of the money. Now, little Suzie got to have piano
> lessons.
>
> Sure, it wasn't a professional grade piano. Sure, good pianists would turn
> their noses up. But little Suzie got to learn. People who love the piano
should
> sing the praises of companies like Kimball to the rafters.
>
> What hurt Kimball was the advanced player who was to cheap to buy a good
piano,
> so they bought a Kimball, and then bashed it because it wouldn't perform
like
> the piano they should have bought.
>
> In spite of that, there were several models that Kimball built in their
later
> years that were actually pretty nice. The 6' 7" Kimball grands if properly
set
> up were darned good. The Grand Ole Opry in Nashville used them for years,
and
> they sounded and played great. The best series of consoles and studios
they
> were building in the last 4 or 5 years they built were far better than the
poor
> quality flakeboard boxes that Yamaha is turning out of Thomaston.
>
The Piano Tuner
point well. I just don't like servicing Kimballs - most that I work on
are owned by people who have them serviced once every 20 years. There
are some good ones out there. These I label as mistakes.
Dave Zappa
news:025DB61939236031.795F79D2...@lp.airnews.net...
> thepia...@webtv.net (The Piano Tuner) wrote:
>
> >Dave Zappa wrote:
> >
> >
> >When people ask me to recommend a brand - I always ask them first what
> >brands they know of. The top recognizable names, at least in my area,
> >are Steinway, Baldwin, Yamaha and Kimball.
>
> >(And, a bit of-topic -- did
> >anyone else celebrate when Kimball stopped making pianos?)
I didn't write that....
LFletc6143
>are owned by people who have them serviced once every 20 years. There
>are some good ones out there. These I label as mistakes.
lol ! I know what you mean about the 20 year service intervals. "Dad" only
bought it in the first place to get the wife to shut up. He sure wasn't going
to be hit up every 6 months for even more money!
About the only thing I can think of that is worse than having to take a whitney
spinet action out of a piano is a Lester spinet action or such with all the
plastic. We all know that sinking feeling in our stomach to pull out the bottom
panel and see all the little yellow chips of plastic all over the bottom of the
piano, some shaped like flanges, some like jacks, some like damper arms, etc.
Of course, the next statement out of the customer's mouth is "can you fix it?"
Then "will it be expensive?"
Larry Fletcher
Pianos, Inc.
Atlanta, GA
Dealer/Technician
"The early bird may get the worm, but it's the second rat that gets the cheese"
Charlie Tuner
Yep,thats one of the things I forgot about.
Its been a long time since I saw one of these, fifteen yrs or so,I thought
they had died out a long time ago.
Charlie
-
(Just a small fish in a large Ivers & Pond)
=====================
Huberrt Liverman
Piano tuner/tech
Bass Trombonist
Opelika, Al.
LFletc6143 wrote in message
<20000118001258...@ng-bj1.aol.com>...
>
>panel and see all the little yellow chips of plastic all over the bottom of
the
>piano, some shaped like flanges, some like jacks, some like damper arms,
etc.
PianoLady5
I know what you mean. I have played on some of them. So that is what they are
called. PSO. Perfect!
Pat