Grey market '75 2-pedal Yamaha G2
Brian Kerns
plays and sounds great. I am very happy with my purchase. I've had a two
different piano technicians tune and work on the thing (one tuning included with
purchase). They say there are no issues with these pianos and even one of them
said they prefer the G series to the C series. I played a new C2's, and it
sounded very nice, a little brighter than mine, better definition in the bass
and a little more even in tone through the upper registers. They seem a little
smoother between the dampened and un dampened notes. I noticed no difference in
the action but I only played the C2 for 20 minutes or so. The tonal differences
could have been attributed to the acoustics of the different rooms the two
pianos were in.
There was a gentleman (Don), in this new group that mentioned his preference to
the G2 over the new Young Chang and that dealers were putting down the grey two
peddlers. Yamaha also says that if you buy one of these used imports that it
will dry out and shrink to a 4 foot grand (fetus grand? ;-)). Are there any
merits to these claims or are they just trying to sell new pianos?
One of the technicians said that there was a "hairline" crack in the sound board
of my piano but it was nothing to be concerned about for a 25 year old piano so
I bought it at his recommendation. It does not buzz and in fact the tone is
quite rich and pleasant for solo and bright enough for trio.
Perhaps I got a "good one" but if people are having trouble with these grey
market pianos, I would like to know what to look out for in mine.
Thanks,
Brian
Rick Clark
humidity conditions than one made for the U.S. market. Either will
have wood shrinkage, as will any piano, but the grey will have a
little more, and the result a bit more severe. The more extreme your
dryness is, the bigger the risk. On occasion it might be disasterous.
It's difficult to predict what will happen in an individual
circumstance, and local piano technician's local experiences probably
tell the tale best.
Any piano will last the longest under controlled humidity. Your
soundboard crack may not be the end of the world in and of itself, but
it does indicate your dryness, and is a big sign from above you might
want to invest in a humidity control system- appropriately a
Dampp-Chaser system (I'm not spamming, there is no competing product).
See www.dampp-chaser.com.
Regards,
Rick Clark
Barrie Heaton
<Ple...@LobotomizeMe.com> writes
>Any piano will last the longest under controlled humidity. Your
>soundboard crack may not be the end of the world in and of itself, but it
>does indicate your dryness, and is a big sign from above you might
>want to invest in a humidity control system- appropriately a Dampp-
>Chaser system (I'm not spamming, there is no competing product). See
>www.dampp-chaser.com.
>
>Regards,
You would not be spamming even if there was a good alliterative you are
giving an opinion/recommendation of a product that will solve/ relieve
the problem of dryness. Just good advice.
Barrie,
--
Barrie Heaton PGP key on request http://www.a440.co.uk/
AcryliKey Ivory Repair System UK © http://www.acrylikey.co.uk/
The U.K. Piano Page © http://www.uk-piano.org/
Home to the UK Piano Industry
Leslie Bell
helpful people, the early G-2's did not have
duplex scaling and tone collectors until '85.
Also there are differences in the action,
supposedly so much so that Yamaha won't even supply
parts for them if you need a part. And of course,
they were seasoned for the extremely humid environment
of Japan (little indoor heating) and the parts will
"season" in your environment if you don't keep your
damp-chaser filled!
All I know is I played a fifteen year old G-2 that
the dealer didn't even bother to set up, and the
keys wobbled so much it was like playing a
Schaffer & Son (Colton pianos crap piano of the universe).
If you have a good G-2 you're lucky; take care of
it with a damp-chaser and all should be all right.
Hairline cracks are nothing to be worried about,
but again, it occurred because the wood wasn't
dried out in huge kilns like Yamaha does today
for American-market pianos.
And keep in mind that some of what you read here
is unfortunately propaganda by various dealers
of various persuasions.
Les
Brian Kerns (BKe...@intint.com) wrote:
: What is the general census about these pianos. I bought a '75 G2 for 8K and it
Larry
>is unfortunately propaganda by various dealers
>of various persuasions.
>
>Les
Since you know so much about pianos and the motives of the dealers who
participate here, I want to ask you a question. No one else has been able to
give me a credible answer to it, maybe you can, with your in depth knowledge
about the curing processes of wood.
Yamaha claims to "season" their pianos for destination, as you have pointed
out. This, according to your input, is because the Japanese climate is
extremely humid, apparently much more so than anything a Yamaha will encounter
anywhere else. But Kawai, who also builds their pianos in Japan, makes it very
clear that they don't do this. Kawai says they cure the wood in their pianos
for a world market. The same pianos they sell in Japan are sold everywhere
else.
Next, Yamaha feels a need to season their pianos for the US market, but they
don't seem to feel the need to do this for the South American market, or the
European market, or the Canadian market......you get the picture. They have two
flavors - wet and dry. Given that in the US alone there are far more extremes
than you could possibly face in Japan, here are my questions:
1. Why is there only one level of seasoning for the US, and how does Yamaha
know whether the piano will end up in Arizona or Louisiana so that they can be
sure to season it properly? Why does Yamaha not seem to need to have an
Alaskan seasoned piano? Or a Canadian? Or a Brazilian seasoned piano? For that
matter, you can experience almost every seasonal condition you'll face in Japan
right here in the state of Georgia, from ocean coastline to mountains and high
humidity in between. Where's the Georgia seasoned Yamahas?
2. How is Kawai managing to get around this horrible problem with their one
seasoned pianos? There are almost as many used Kawais coming in as there are
used Yamahas, so why aren't they falling apart?
3. And I guess the biggest question: Is the reason that one Japanese piano
factory has to do all these different seasonings and the other one doesn't -
and the one who has to do all these different seasonings has pianos falling
apart all over America to the extent that they have to refuse replacement parts
for them, and the one who doesn't season isn't having this problem -- is this
because Kawai knows how to cure wood and Yamaha doesn't, or because Yamaha
pianos are so poorly made that special consideration must be taken to be sure
they survive? Or.....could it be the propaganda isn't coming from the dealers,
but from the manufacturer?
And as a last question, how is it that pianos shipped *into* Japan from other
countries don't require any special seasoning for Japan, but are the same
pianos they ship elsewhere? The Japanese are buying up every Steinway,
Bechstein, and Bosendorfer they can get their hands on, yet none of these
companies are building pianos "seasoned for the Japanese market". Wouldn't it
seem that if the Yamaha piano was worth its salt it would be able to hold up as
well as other makers?
Oh...I just thought of another one. How far is it from Japan to Korea - 30
minutes on a boat? Is there that big of a difference in the climates of these
two countries? Why doesn't either of the Korean builders feel a need to season
their pianos for destination? I don't see anyone talking about them falling
apart because of this.
There are more examples I could give, but the point is obvious. Either Yamaha
is the only piano company that isn't capable of building a piano that will hold
up, or everyone else's pianos are falling apart all over the world. I don't
think either statement is true, so that only leaves one conclusion, in my
opinion.
Larry Fletcher
Pianos Inc
Atlanta GA
Dealer/technician
Doing the work of three men.....Larry, Curly, & Moe
Want to visit another piano related messageboard? Go to the piano discussion
group on my website:
Brian Kerns
piano. My technician looked up my serial number in some book that had an index
and a range of years. Mine was '75 or '76. It does have duplex scaling but the
longer strings are muted from the d above middle c, down.
Is this the way they came from the factory? Why have duplex scaling for only
half of the keys?
As far as using a Damp Chaser, both of the technicians I've had work on the
piano said that it is not necessary and none of the clients they have use them.
I'm located in So. California.
I've had the piano since February and it is starting to settle in nicely with
two tunings thus far.
-Brian
Rick Clark
>As far as using a Damp Chaser, both of the technicians I've had work on the
>piano said that it is not necessary and none of the clients they have use them.
>I'm located in So. California.
What your techs say may be true, but it may also not be true. Because
of course, the techs who do not involve themselves in the trouble,
expense, knowledge, and inventory are going to say they are not
needed. And their clients aren't going to have them, because the tech
didn't tell the clients they could benefit from them.
It is no different here in extremely humid South Florida, where
pianos suffer very badly from the climate and desperately need help,
and yet most of the techs are apathetic about climate control. I
remember when one long-time PTG member even railed loudly at a PTG
meeting that he is against them because it means less tuning needed
and less damage that will need fixing. His claim was that installing
the systems takes money away from piano technicians in the long run,
so we should be against it. Fortunately I think he is quite the
exception. (Former govt union man, actually) But still, there is an
awful lot of inertia among techs in the area of climate control. For
one thing, it involves the effort of *selling*, and a lot of techs
just aren't interested in that. It also involves putting money into
inventory. Also, piano technology is a field that can be very slow to
accept new ideas, even when they are well proven in the tech journals.
Nonetheless, it may be true that you live in one of those rare climate
zones that are consistent, not too dry, not too humid. Why not say
where you are, and perhaps one of the techs here from your region can
chime in. One of our regular contributors for instance is pianocat88
(Lisa). She is in So. Cal, and I know she is experienced and very
positive about the benefits of climate control in her region.
Regards,
Rick Clark
Tom Shaw
Dreadnought (top of the line acoustic guitar) with me...it was several years
old at the time. I kept it in the living room on a guitar stand in a home
in the San Fernando Valley which is, as you know, in So California.
After some time the top exhibited a split along the grain and the headstock
also split...the headstock split was normal to the axis of the neck. I
attributed these splits to the dry climate in the San Fernando Valley vs.
the relatively humid climate of Michigan. Subsequently I carried the
instrument to the North Texas area (I had glued the headstock back together
but not touched the top). The split in the top closed itself up to the
point where it was almost invisible in the humidity climate I am in now.
The humidity in North Texas where I live is significantly less than that of
Michigan.
Bottom line. The humidity in So California is quite low in some areas, like
the San Fernando Valley, so dont count on not needing a Damp Chaser.
TS
"Rick Clark" <Ple...@LobotomizeMe.com> wrote in message
news:3af7866e...@news.mindspring.com...
Niles Duncan
systems in pianos that I've rebuilt and sold to customers. I particularly
advise them for my customers who live near the beach. I've noticed benefits in
tuning stability in my pianos that have them, and for the pianos near the ocean
they are part of my effort to keep them from prematurely rusting away.
We have lots of grey market Yamahas here in Southern California and I'm not
aware of any special problems with them due to seasoning issues. I've sold a
small number of them myself, and never had any come back to bite me.
Niles Duncan
http://www.pianosource.com
Don
wrote:
>What is the general census about these pianos. I bought a '75 G2 for 8K and it
>plays and sounds great. I am very happy with my purchase. I've had a two
>different piano technicians tune and work on the thing (one tuning included with
>purchase). They say there are no issues with these pianos and even one of them
>said they prefer the G series to the C series. I played a new C2's, and it
>sounded very nice, a little brighter than mine, better definition in the bass
>and a little more even in tone through the upper registers. They seem a little
>smoother between the dampened and un dampened notes. I noticed no difference in
>the action but I only played the C2 for 20 minutes or so. The tonal differences
>could have been attributed to the acoustics of the different rooms the two
>pianos were in.
>
>There was a gentleman (Don), in this new group that mentioned his preference to
>the G2 over the new Young Chang and that dealers were putting down the grey two
>peddlers.
1. Don't call me a gentleman. <gr>
2. After playing a couple more YCs and then playing that Yamaha for
four hours again, I can't believe the YC dealer had the balls to
actually insult that Yamaha. It is a WONDERFUL piano! I would not
trade it for five YCs.
>Perhaps I got a "good one" but if people are having trouble with these grey
>market pianos, I would like to know what to look out for in mine.
Brian, the Yamaha is a REAL piano compared to the Young Chang. I
plan to visit the YC dealer again to see what else they have to say
about the Yamaha. I don't want to insult them or be rude since they
are my friends. But the YC pianos stink...in my humble but most
accurate opinion and after playing several of them nightly for a few
years.
D*
>
"Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has not heart;
and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains."
---Winston Churchill
Leslie Bell
: >And keep in mind that some of what you read here
: >is unfortunately propaganda by various dealers
: >of various persuasions.
: >
: >Les
:
:
: Since you know so much about pianos and the motives of the dealers who
: participate here, I want to ask you a question. No one else has been able to
: give me a credible answer to it, maybe you can, with your in depth knowledge
: about the curing processes of wood.
With pleasure! :)
:
: Yamaha claims to "season" their pianos for destination, as you have pointed
: out. This, according to your input, is because the Japanese climate is
: extremely humid, apparently much more so than anything a Yamaha will encounter
: anywhere else.
The majority of Japanese traditional homes
don't have heating, and when they do, it is
not the drying kind of heating systems here
in the US.
: But Kawai, who also builds their pianos in Japan, makes it very
: clear that they don't do this. Kawai says they cure the wood in their pianos
: for a world market. The same pianos they sell in Japan are sold everywhere
: else.
Right. Kawai drys the wood for dry climates
everywhere, which Yamaha doesn't for the Japanese
market. It is a cost-saving process.
: Next, Yamaha feels a need to season their pianos for the US market, but they
: don't seem to feel the need to do this for the South American market, or the
: European market, or the Canadian market......you get the picture. They have two
: flavors - wet and dry.
No. Wet or no heating in humid environments,
and dry for radiant and central heating and
air conditioning. Even England still uses
hot water radiators, which are humid heating.
: Given that in the US alone there are far more extremes
: than you could possibly face in Japan, here are my questions:
:
: 1. Why is there only one level of seasoning for the US,
Indoor drying heating and air conditioning.
: and how does Yamaha
: know whether the piano will end up in Arizona or Louisiana so that they can be
: sure to season it properly?
Indoor drying heating and air conditioning.
Better safe than sorry.
: Why does Yamaha not seem to need to have an
: Alaskan seasoned piano? Or a Canadian?
Indoor drying heating and air conditioning.
Are you beginning to understand now that Yamaha
is referring to the INDOOR humidity level, not
particularly the OUTDOOR humidity level?
Unless you keep your piano in the yard...
: Or a Brazilian seasoned piano? For that
: matter, you can experience almost every seasonal condition you'll face in Japan
: right here in the state of Georgia, from ocean coastline to mountains and high
: humidity in between. Where's the Georgia seasoned Yamahas?
INDOOR humidity.
: 2. How is Kawai managing to get around this horrible problem with their one
: seasoned pianos? There are almost as many used Kawais coming in as there are
: used Yamahas, so why aren't they falling apart?
Kawai pianos use ALL kiln-dried wood, which is
not necessary in Japan or other humid INDOOR
climates but they do it anyway. The money they
spend in the extra step is made up in less
administration costs, I assume.
: 3. And I guess the biggest question: Is the reason that one Japanese piano
: factory has to do all these different seasonings and the other one doesn't -
: and the one who has to do all these different seasonings has pianos falling
: apart all over America to the extent that they have to refuse replacement parts
: for them, and the one who doesn't season isn't having this problem -- is this
: because Kawai knows how to cure wood and Yamaha doesn't, or because Yamaha
: pianos are so poorly made that special consideration must be taken to be sure
: they survive? Or.....could it be the propaganda isn't coming from the dealers,
: but from the manufacturer?
INDOOR vs OUTDOOR.... INDOOR vs. OUTDOOR... INDOOR vs. OUTDOOR
Your erroneous assuptions are based on taking
INDOOR climate facts and applying them to
the OUTSIDE climate.. I guess Yamaha thought
everyone could see the obvious. People with
an agenda as you have NEVER see the obvious,
because it's not convenient.
:
: And as a last question, how is it that pianos shipped *into* Japan from other
: countries don't require any special seasoning for Japan, but are the same
: pianos they ship elsewhere?
Kiln-dried wood does not have as much a problem
in humid indoor environments as NON-kiln-dried
wood has in very dry indoor environments. Certain
parts will swell, but will resume their original
shape when the humidity is gone; on the other
hand, when humid parts dry out they will crack
and break.
: The Japanese are buying up every Steinway,
: Bechstein, and Bosendorfer they can get their hands on, yet none of these
: companies are building pianos "seasoned for the Japanese market". Wouldn't it
: seem that if the Yamaha piano was worth its salt it would be able to hold up as
: well as other makers?
Again, faulty logic based on an obvious
oversight.
:
: Oh...I just thought of another one. How far is it from Japan to Korea - 30
: minutes on a boat? Is there that big of a difference in the climates of these
: two countries? Why doesn't either of the Korean builders feel a need to season
: their pianos for destination? I don't see anyone talking about them falling
: apart because of this.
Once again, Korea companies are newer companies,
and they learned from the failure of humid-wood
produced pianos and kiln-dried from the beginning.
Yamaha, on the other hand, has been making pianos
for 100+ years and have still found it unecessary
to use kiln-dried wood for Japanese-destined pianos.
:
: There are more examples I could give, but the point is obvious.
To everyone but you, and hopefully, even to you by
now.
: Either Yamaha
: is the only piano company that isn't capable of building a piano that will hold
: up, or everyone else's pianos are falling apart all over the world. I don't
: think either statement is true, so that only leaves one conclusion, in my
: opinion.
You kind folks at Yamaha please send my C2 to
Les
:)
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
: Larry Fletcher
:
:
Leslie Bell
: There is a conflict in either your date for the duplex scaling or the year of my
: piano. My technician looked up my serial number in some book that had an index
: and a range of years. Mine was '75 or '76. It does have duplex scaling but the
: longer strings are muted from the d above middle c, down.
:
: Is this the way they came from the factory? Why have duplex scaling for only
: half of the keys?
Because it's more noticeable in the higher
pitches, I would assume, where the enharmonic partials
beyond the pin would be particularly annoying.
Perhaps '85 was the first year that FULL duplex
scaling was used, more as a selling feature than
pratical tone enhancement.
:
: As far as using a Damp Chaser, both of the technicians I've had work on the
: piano said that it is not necessary and none of the clients they have use them.
: I'm located in So. California.
I'll tell you it sure is in Nevada, and if you
have indoor heating and air conditioning you use
all year round (admittedly not likely there with
the current energy prices!)
:
: I've had the piano since February and it is starting to settle in nicely with
: two tunings thus far.
:
: -Brian
:
:
If you use indoor heating a lot during the winter,
and you get cracks, don't blame me. Otherwise,
like they say in the song "Hates California, it's
cold and it's damp..."
Les
:)
:
:
:
Leslie Bell
: On Sun, 06 May 2001 05:12:46 GMT, Brian Kerns <BKe...@intint.com>
Larry
humidity level, not particularly the OUTDOOR humidity level?
>
>Unless you keep your piano in the yard...
Cute. Except you don't seem to understand wood, and you don't seem to
understand indoor RH factors.
It is your contention that Yamaha doesn't kiln dry the lumber used in pianos
staying in Japan and other more humid regions. I assure you that you are
utterly incorrect. Anyone who has ever built even a coffee table would laugh in
your face.
All the wood used in every Yamaha is kiln dried. If not, they wouldn't even
hold up in Japan. I suggest you spend a little time learning about wood and the
curing process of it prior to precision cutting and fitting before you decide
to be so clever.
Then, you say that Kawai kiln dries all their wood as a cost saving measure. I
can see how *not* letting tons of material sit for months in a kiln would cost
more.... (sheesh)
Let me educate you on the "seasoning process". I'm holding in my hand right now
a brochure printed by Yamaha themselves taking me through the curing and
seasoning process. Don't blame me if it sacrifices your sacred cow. It even has
pictures. And they make a point of telling the reader how meticulously they
kiln dry the wood to a 4% moisture content. For *all* their pianos.
Then they show a nice big picture of a long row of completely finished pianos,
painted and all - sitting in a large room. The caption under the picture tells
the reader that "after the piano is completed it is allowed to sit in a climate
controlled room to season prior to crating and shipment". So *there* is your
"seasoned for destination" deal. They sit it in an air conditioned room for a
day or two. Then of course, they box it up and stick it in a hot warehouse. But
the marketing angle is great! And it sure helps take care of all those pesky
used Yamahas that were built so poorly.
Here are the facts, and you can say I have an agenda if you want to, because I
do. My agenda is to cut through all the crap that infiltrates the piano
business, and all the know-it-alls who come along arguing points they know
nothing about. The facts are available for you from any Yamaha dealer who is
willing to admit this piece of literature exists. The wood in the Yamaha is
cured the same for all the pianos they build. I won't write a full chapter on
why wood has to be cured to a specific moisture content before you make
precision measurements, cuts, and fit, because it wouldn't matter anyway - you
already seem to have all the answers. But it remains nonetheless necessary for
all wood to be kiln dried since this is the only way to get the moisture
content under the 6% range where it has to be to be stable, and do it evenly
throughout the wood without ending up with reactionary wood (you might
understand that if I call it case hardened, or, like a crusty loaf of bread).
Only after the piano is completely built is the piano subjected to this
"seasoning" process. But by using a nice little word like "seasoning", people
who think they are a wood expert because they figured out there is a difference
between the outdoors and the indoors like yourself just eat it up. Tell you
what - find someone in your area who is in the business of kiln drying wood,
get him to take his moisture reader with him and meet you at a piano store with
one of these "gray market" Yamahas that you say have been built out of non-kiln
dried wood and give you a moisture content reading from any piece of wood you
want to. Then read the same piece of wood on a new Yamaha. What do you bet
they'll read the same?
Yes, I do know the difference between outdoors and indoors. And with your
understanding of kiln drying and manufacturing things out of wood, it's easy to
understand why you would think it's that simple.
>Your erroneous assuptions are based on taking INDOOR climate facts and
applying them to the OUTSIDE climate.. I guess Yamaha thought everyone could
see the obvious. People with an agenda as you have NEVER see the obvious,
because it's not convenient.
Do me a favor. Go out and actually *learn* about humidity, wood moisture
content, where it is in the wood, how the wood retains it and lets go of it,
and how wood is made stable enough to make things out of it where precise
measurements are required. But let's be clear on this one point before you do -
*you* may be simple minded enough to think that someone would think a piano
went outdoors, but I'm not. Nor am I simple minded enough to think that a
manufacturer of an item that is predominantly wood where lots and lots of
precision cuts and fits must be made is using wood that hasn't been properly
kiln dried.
Leslie Bell
or you...
Guess who has more credibility? If what you say is
true, you'd be suing them instead of wasting your
time here selling the virtues of used Japanese pianos.
Les
P.S. Awesome kind folks at Yamaha please e-mail me for
my shipping address to send the C2 to... :)
Larry (larryin...@aol.comnojunk) wrote:
: >Are you beginning to understand now that Yamaha is referring to the INDOOR
:
:
Larry
>or you...
You can believe who you want to believe.
>Guess who has more credibility? If what you say is true, you'd be suing them
instead of wasting your time here selling the virtues of used Japanese pianos.
I don't sell their virtues. I don't care whether you buy one or not. But it
seems to me it is far more to their advantage to kill off the competition from
them than it is to be honest about them. So the *real* bottom line is - do they
build pianos that fall apart or not?
Dave Andrews
<< Bottom line... are we going to believe Yamaha
or you... >>
Which Yamaha, Les?
<< Guess who has more credibility? If what you say is true, you'd be suing them
instead of wasting your
time here selling the virtues of used Japanese pianos. >>
I need to participate in another hot thread like I need a Yamaha piano, but I
thought that you might like a minor "factoid" (dang, I hate that word -- why
did I use it) to consider.
I would assume that Yamaha runs its US subsidiary for sales and distribution as
a separate profit center, much the same way that Roland does. The kind folks
there make absolutely no money -- in fact it hurts them even more than
non-Yamaha competition -- when grey (or gray -- not taking sides here ;-))
market pianos show up on US shores. Therefore, consider that the kind of
information disseminated by sales and marketing types usually is "repackaged"
technical advice for consumption by sales types doing battle on the retail
floor. Often times in the repackaging process, erroneous perceptions are
transmitted, not always intentionally, but winning the battle is more important
than complete accuracy sometimes. What this means to you here is that, you may
be thumping the Yamaha US line, but unless your info is coming from production
or engineering or technical people from Yamaha Japan (Nippon Gakki) you may be
unintentionally misinformed. So the answer to your question about who has the
most credibility is still up for grabs here, but you may not want to paint
yourself into that corner any further until you check your facts a bit more
deeply.
Other than that, it's none of my business and I don't really prefer Yamaha US,
grey, gray, ebony, walnut or chrome over other choices anyway, but I thought
I'd turn the hose on you and Larry long enough to see if there might be some
room for you to soften your position pending further research.
With all due respect,
Dave Andrews
D. W. Andrews Associates
Church Music System Specialists
"Two Hacks Working Out Of A Garage"
Disclaimer: If there are two ways to take my words,
always assume I was after the cheap laugh.
Larry
>I'd turn the hose on you and Larry long enough to see if there might be some
>room for you to soften your position pending further research.
Good points Dave. I've already done the research - I don't think the other guy
is interested in doing any. It means one more sacred cow gets slaughtered.
Besides - he thinks the ones they sell in Japan are made of uncured wood. So
his research is going to have to start pretty much at "this is a tree".
Dave Andrews
<< Good points Dave.>>
You say that as though some of my points might
not be good. You outta' see the one on my head!
<< I've already done the research - I don't think the other guy is interested
in doing any. It means one more sacred cow gets slaughtered. >>
Ah, yes. There are a number of sacred cows
in this business, aren't there? Personally, I
really enjoy the holy bovine propoganda
related to the Steinway "mystique". I like
Steinway, mind you, but holy cow!!! (yes, it
was, unfortunately, pun intended.)
<< Besides - he thinks the ones they sell in
Japan are made of uncured wood. >>
The center for disease control would never
allow them in the US "uncured".
<< So his research is going to have to start pretty much at "this is a tree".
>>
Where is that tree? I need to ... um ... er ...
raise its moisture content.
P.S. I understand your efforts totally. I was
just trying to throw a rope to Les.
William Manico
Larry <larryin...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20010507182638...@ng-mp1.aol.com...
William Manico
Leslie Bell <x...@NOSPAM.lvdi.net> wrote in message
news:irFM6.131219$8D.73...@e420r-sjo2.usenetserver.com...
William Manico
Larry <larryin...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
Leslie Bell
Leslie Bell
too busy playing my new C7 to respond.
Les
P.S. Thanks Yamaha!!! You guys rule!
Larry (larryin...@aol.comnojunk) wrote:
: > but I thought
:
:
Larry
>You guys can go back to selling... I'm
>too busy playing my new C7 to respond.
>
>Les
>
>P.S. Thanks Yamaha!!! You guys rule!
Excuse me....you seem to be of the opinion that we care.
You debated your side like a 12 year old, and you come back again after making
the silly statements you made about wood with yet another childish comment, and
you think it will matter to us? Geez...
Dave Andrews
<< You guys can go back to selling... I'm
too busy playing my new C7 to respond. >>
Final score: Larry 1, Les 0.
For those of you demanding a refund because this game ended early, write your
congressman.
Hey Les. Not to worry. We all lose 'em now and then. But it was fun while
it lasted.
P.S. Larry beat me up once over Bosendorfer rims. I've been plotting revenge
ever since. I've been sneaking fire water into his tea hoping to burn out a
few more of his brain cells.
Leslie Bell
and at this point I could care less... I
haven't stopped playing that thing since
it arrived... well, except for this...
Les
:)
Dave Andrews (dwas...@aol.comnospam) wrote: