Yahama, Petrof, Boston or Schimmel?
Jian
My purchasing goal: A 6" grand piano -- firm.
I live near Toronto, Canada. After nice advice from this group and
reading
Larry's "The Piano Book", I learned many piano brands. But there are
limited
brands available in Toronto and surrounding area, but enough for me to
choose.
Yesterday (Sat.) I wen to four brand dealers: Yamaha, Petrof, Boston and
Schimmel.
Here is the story and I appreciate your advice:
"Manufacturer's suggested retail price" provided by dealer (all in
Canadian Dollars):
(I just checked Yahoo, At this minute $1USD = $1.59CND, 1Euro =
$1.38CND)
Yamaha C3(6'1") Ebony: $37,800
Petrof PE-III(6'4") Ebony or Mahogany: $36,500
Boston GP178(5'10") Ebony or Mahogany: $38,600
Schimmel SP182-TJ(6') African Mahogany: $59,000
Because I am not in the bargain stage yet, I didn't go to the price.
Each dealer voluntarily mentioned the discount or had a tag with 'sale'
price on piano:
Yamaha C3(6'1"): $23,800
Petrof PE-III(6'4"): $25,500
Boston GP178(5'10"): $34,800
Schimmel SP182(6'): $36,500
Some dealer mentioned their 'bottom' price:
Boston GP178(5'10"): $30,500
Schimmel SP182-TJ(6'): $34,000
In Canada the tax is 15%, so the price "to go" will be:
Boston GP178(5'10"): $30,500 x 1.15 = $35,000
Schimmel SP182-TJ(6'): $34,000 x 1.15 = $39,000
With guess and salesperson's talk, I feel other bottom price will be:
Yamaha C3(6'1"): $22,680 x 1.15 = $26,000
Petrof PE-III(6'4"): $23,500 x 1.15 = $27,000
My son likes the Schimmel Schimmel SP182-TJ the best so do my wife and
myself.
It sounds better and looks better too. Petrof and Schimmel pianos have
Runner Action.
Inside, Yamaha and Boston look cheaper. Petrof and Schimmel look more
elegant.
Schimmel looks really delicate and well done. Of course, the price is
higher.
Schimmel = 1.5 Yamaha. This SP182-TJ piano is signed by Mr. Schimmel on
the rim.
I am NOT able to hear and play piano. If two pianos were played
side-by-side
I might be able to tell you my preference, but not correct judgment. My
son is only
to be 13. He can tell his preference with the sound and the feel of the
keys and pedals.
I will appreciate your help and opinion:
1) Which one should I buy?
2) If I go for Schimmel, is it worth the money?
3) Is there room for bargain with their 'bottom' price when I am beside
the bargain table?
Thanks.
Jian
Jian
others' posts showing up. I re-post it. Sorry if it shows twice.===
My purchasing goal: A 6" grand piano -- firm.
I live near Toronto, Canada. After nice advice from this group and
reading Larry's "The Piano Book", I learned many piano brands.
There are limited brands available in Toronto and surrounding area,
but enough for me to choose. Yesterday (Sat.) I wen to four brand
dealers: Yamaha, Petrof, Boston and Schimmel.
Here is the story and I appreciate your advice:
"Manufacturer's suggested retail price" provided by dealer
(all in Canadian Dollars, I just checked Yahoo, At this minute
$1USD = $1.59CND, 1Euro = $1.38CND)
Yamaha C3(6'1") Ebony only: $37,800
judgment. My son is only to be 13. He can ONLY tell his preference
with the sound and the feel of the keys and pedals.
I will appreciate your help and opinion:
1) Which one should I buy? My daughter can play this piano for
another 10 years before she finish high school, 5 years for my son.
Jian
while the test 1 min ago showed up. Sorry if the last post
shows up ===
dppeterson
pianist" punchline? ;o)
D
"Jian" <jx-...@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:3C82760D...@rogers.com...
Gerald C
It appears that cost is not an insurmountable object for you. If you
like the Schimmel, hardly anyone would argue with you.
The price you quoted for the Yamaha C3 sounded like a great deal
(<$15,000 USD), but the Boston can be had for less than the bottom
price you mention. Check some recent posts by Greg Marino for prices
around 16-17k USD (this is probably not typical!).
15% sales tax in Canada!! Ouch!!!!!
> My purchasing goal: A 6" grand piano -- firm.
>
> I live near Toronto, Canada...
K Hestness
I hate to take any wind out of your sails but Schimmel is owned by
YAMAHA ;-)
I personally would go for the Petrof 6' 4". It is the best one to my
ear out of the four you mention, however the new small Schimmel would
be my second choice.
Good Luck,
Knute Hestness
Larry
>YAMAHA ;-)
>
Not exactly. Yamaha bought stock in the company.
Larry Fletcher
Pianos Inc
Atlanta GA
Dealer/technician
Doing the work of three men.....Larry, Curly, & Moe
Want to visit another piano related messageboard? Go to the piano discussion
group on my website:
Ambrose
> (<$15,000 USD)
I concur with Gerald's opinion. My local dealer's price for an ebony
C3 is $21,000 USD. Are you sure this is not a previously owned
instrument?
Ambrose
Pierre-Normand Houle
"Ambrose" <ambr...@e-mailanywhere.com> wrote :
I am also shopping for a grand piano in Canada (Montreal). My feeling
is that pianos are cheaper in Canada than in the US right now. Choice
is dismal however, in my area.
I haven't negotiated much yet because I haven't made my choice and
I won't be ready to buy before July, but I have been offered the following
prices:
Kawai RX1: 19000$ CAN
Kawai RX2: 20500$ CAN
Kawai RX3: 25000$ CAN
Charles Walter: 30400$ CAN
Taking into account the current exchange rate (approx. 1.6), these
represent 36%, 40%, 43% and 41% off Larry Fine's "list prices"
from the latest supplement to the Piano Book.
Who else bought a grand piano in Canada recently (or is looking
for one)?
Jian
Schimmel SP 182 TJ African Mahogany: $31,700CND
It's a "take or forget" bottom price. They are very firm.
No more bargain.
How is it comparing to Yamaha C3 for $22,700?
Worth the $9,000 difference?
Thanks.
Jian
Pierre-Normand Houle
"Jian" <jx-...@rogers.com> wrote in message news:3C855CA6...@rogers.com...
> OK, Here is the last price from the Schimmel dealer:
>
> Schimmel SP 182 TJ African Mahogany: $31,700CND
Fine lists the SP 182 TJ "Jubilee" Polished Mahogany at $37,580 USD
Assuming, again, an exchange rate of 1.6, this would represent a 47%
discount.
> It's a "take or forget" bottom price. They are very firm.
> No more bargain.
>
> How is it comparing to Yamaha C3 for $22,700?
For the cheapest finish, Ebony, Fine says $29,090 USD (Polished ebony, +200$)
This, using the same formula, represents a 51% discount.
In the U.S. Fine says that 10% to 30% discounts are to be expected, with
higher discounts on Korean brands, and lower disounts on exclusive brands.
Prices for Yamaha vary much, depending on where you are, even within
the U.S. it seems.
> Worth the $9,000 difference?
I think the Schimmel is a better value but the most important is what
you said earlier:
"My son likes the Schimmel Schimmel SP182-TJ the best so do my wife
and myself. It sounds better and looks better too. Petrof and Schimmel
pianos have [Renner] Action. Inside, Yamaha and Boston look cheaper.
Petrof and Schimmel look more elegant."
If you prefer the sound and action of the Schimmel then it's worth
the difference.
Paul
(now teaches) and baught one for the home. The estonia was 5'6" and
sounded better than the C3. Estonia also makes a 6' piano.
Jian <jx-...@rogers.com> wrote in message news:<3C82657E...@rogers.com>...
Jian
> Fine lists the SP 182 TJ "Jubilee" Polished Mahogany at $37,580 USD
> Assuming, again, an exchange rate of 1.6, this would represent a 47%
> discount.
>
> This, using the same formula, represents a 51% discount.
>
I think the Schimmel dealer in Toronto did NOT give real Canadian
"MSRP".
Instead they used the U.S. "MSRP" cited from Larry Fine's book.
You see $37,580USD * 1.59 = $59,750CND. It's kind of too much
coincidence.
If the "MSRP" in US and Canada are the same, then Yamaha and Petrof
should
be the same, or close. But look:
Yamaha C3 "MSRP" is $29,090USD or $37,800CND. $37,800CND / $29,090USD =
1.30CND/USD.
Petrof PE3 "MSRP" is $25,000USD or $36,500CND. $36,500CND / $25,000USD =
1.46CND/USD.
I think the "REAL" "MSRP" for the Schimmel in Canada should be some
thing between
$49,000 to $55,000CND not $59,500.
Pierre-Normand Houle
"Jian" <jx-...@rogers.com> wrote in message news:3C86B2EC...@rogers.com...
> I think the Schimmel dealer in Toronto did NOT give real Canadian
> "MSRP".
> Instead they used the U.S. "MSRP" cited from Larry Fine's book.
> You see $37,580USD * 1.59 = $59,750CND. It's kind of too much
> coincidence.
>
> If the "MSRP" in US and Canada are the same, then Yamaha and Petrof
> should
> be the same, or close. But look:
>
> Yamaha C3 "MSRP" is $29,090USD or $37,800CND. $37,800CND / $29,090USD =
> 1.30CND/USD.
> Petrof PE3 "MSRP" is $25,000USD or $36,500CND. $36,500CND / $25,000USD =
> 1.46CND/USD.
>
> I think the "REAL" "MSRP" for the Schimmel in Canada should be some
> thing between
> $49,000 to $55,000CND not $59,500.
MRSP's are just what manufacturers want them to be, like in the automotive
industry. This is one reason Fine publishes his Piano Book supplement :
to provide a more uniform standard. Fine's list price is computed from
the manufacturer's published wholesale price "according to a formula
commonly used in the industry." I don't know what this formula is but
I believe it is close to "*2".
Fine says that street prices are usually 15-20% off "list prices" with lots
of exceptions.
Steinways can sell at full list price and even higher.
Japanese and Korean brands will sell at higher discounts than
more exclusive brands.
Some Young Chang models can sell at 10% discounts (or even more) from
the published *wholesale* price when the dealer buy in sufficient quantities
and has to compete much.
xbj
Larry (larryin...@aol.comnojunk) wrote:
: >I hate to take any wind out of your sails but Schimmel is owned by
:
:
Jian
(without Runner Action, but Petrof's won action)
for $23,000 CND tax included?
This means that the price before tax is $20,000.
They don't have new PE-III on floor and require
a $250 no-refundable deposite for setting up ONE new
model for us to have a look.
Larry
>a $250 no-refundable deposite for setting up ONE new
>model for us to have a look.
>
>
>
I've heard it all now. I can die knowing there is no game left that hasn't been
done..... ;-)
Seriously, a dealer that asks you to pay him just to set up a piano on the
showroom floor that he is going to have to set up anyway is just playing games
with you. He knows it will be hard for you to walk away from your $250.00, so
even if you don't quite like the piano you might go ahead and buy it rather
than walk away from your money.
Tell him you won't pay him to set it up, but you won't consider it until he
does. Then tell him to call you when he finally decides he wants to sell it,
and if you're still in the market you might come look at it.
Tom Shaw
to do with his piano.
TS
"Larry" <larryin...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20020307194957...@mb-ck.aol.com...
Rtotaro
the rest of the company. The German government does not permit non-German
companies to own more.
Good luck!
Ray Totaro
Boston Organ & Piano
Schimmel dealer
Mitch
>Yamaha, Petrof, Boston and
>Schimmel.
>1) Which one should I buy?
Blech. Neither.
Check out the Estonia 6'3".
Mitch
>It's a "take or forget" bottom price. They are very firm.
>No more bargain.
>
Heh heh. Sure. :-)
Pierre-Normand Houle
"Tom Shaw" <a000...@airmail.net> wrote :
> I am quite sure I would be very impolite to that dealer as I told him what
> to do with his piano.
It's to the dealer's advantage to be informed under what reasonable
conditions your are ready to consider the purchase of his piano,
not impolite at all.
Larry
>conditions your are ready to consider the purchase of his piano,
>not impolite at all.
>
Telling a customer who wants to see a piano that he has to pay you to uncrate
it is nothing more than pushy sales tactics. The customer should tell the
dealer to kiss his butt and go somewhere else that might actually *appreciate*
the chance to sell him a piano. The only "reasonable conditions" the dealer
needs to know is that he has a piano in a crate that he's going to have to
uncrate eventually anyway, and a customer standing in front of him who might
buy it if he can see it. If the dealer has any sense at all, he'll have it out
of the crate as fast as he can.