portable digital: Technics SX-P30, Roland RD600, Yamaha P200, or other?
pTooner
generally sells for $1495. I also liked the Roland RD600 quite a lot as well as
the Yamaha P200. Another pretty good option was the Korg N1. I was interested in
the Technics SX-P30 but could find no shop in Richmond or Washington DC who carried
it in stock. I wasn't interested in ordering it sight unseen. Anyway, I suspect
you might like the Alesis QS8. Give it a look.
Gerry
MaryYYang wrote:
> Hi! This is the newsgroup i have been looking for!
>
> Question:
>
> I have read some comments about the Roland RD600, but havn't heard much about
> the Technics SX-P30 or the Yamaha P200 in comparison. I need something
> portable, and these seem like the three best options, with the Technics a
> minimalist piano for the lowest (?) price. One problem is that I havn't found a
> dealer that carries all of them to compare directly in the store (I am from
> central New Jersey). I liked the Yamaha and prefered the Roland (although I
> tried the A-90, not the RD600), but am attracted by the Technics. The Technics
> does not come with its own speakers. Is this significant? Will I be
> sacrificing a lot to save some money? I know personal opinion is the deciding
> factor, but please help with advice, sound/action opinions, things to look for,
> other brands/models I should consider... THANKS!
>
> Detailed Explanation for those who are interested :)
>
> My well-meaning boyfriend got me a 61 key spring action keyboard for christmas,
> and it has kick- started my search to by a portable digital piano. I want to
> get back into playing classical piano after a 4 year break (during college).
> I just moved to an apartment and expect to move around some, and so I can't
> get a real (acoustic) piano, let alone anything comparable to the amazing
> steinway grand at my parent's home. :( ! I know I'm spoiled, and for a
> while I didn't even think of digital pianos as an option. I'm in a strange
> position because I know i'll _eventually_ have the best piano I could ask for,
> or the nice Baldwin upright my mom has, but now I don't have anything! I was
> going to try to find a local church/music school/place where I could practice,
> but that takes some serious motivation, especially in winter. My
> justification for getting a digital piano is that I CAN take it with me when I
> inevitably move from place to place, and I can play it with headphones!
>
> I want to spend less than $1500 but want good piano action and sound. So far I
> have only found the Technics for this price. Other instrument features would
> be nice too, but not if they cost too much or make the instrument weigh more
> than I do! Advice on dealers/mail order/used is also welcome.
>
> Thanks for reading,
> Mary
> currently working on Beethoven's Sonata in D major Op 10 and Frank Sinatra's "
> Fly me to the Moon" :)
> -=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> Mary Yang
> Mary...@aol.com
> =======================
MaryYYang
Bob Cardone
Try the Roland RD-600. Go in a store and play one for a half hour.
Then try the Technics. You will be buy the Roland. :)
Bob Cardone
PS , next to Beethovens Sonata in D Major OP10--- Fly me to the moon
should be like " Falling off a log".
L1231P
>the Technics SX-P30 or the Yamaha P200 in comparison. I need something
>portable, and these seem like the three best options
Here's my 2 cents about the three you've mentioned here:
Technics P-30: very portable, 32-note polyphony (in Mono), very simple, action
is OK, sounds are above average, pretty decent for the price, I use one for
background music gigs. Not my favorite, but overall a good design for
practicing in particular.
Roland RD-600: 64-note polyphony, great action, good choice of piano and
electric piano samples, I've heard Roland pianos that sound good when others
play them, but
my touch and Roland are not a good match, I play with a rather heavy touch
(jazz) and there's something about Roland's concept of a piano sound that
doesn't sit well with me, I'm the guy that annoys floor sales persons by
playing (or trying anyway) Chopin etudes on digitals because I find it exposes
really nit-picky problems in scale and design replication of pianos.
Yamaha P-200: My favorite of the three, action is very good, exceptionally
durable instrument, and to me, this responds the most like a real acoustic. I
personally find the speakers a big plus for practicing and
very close quarter gigs. In general, I prefer Yamaha's concept of a piano
sound over almost everybody else's.
On the east coast you should be able to find an Oberheim Minigrand sound module
that can be played with any MIDI controller of you choice, new or used. That
module is hands down the best I've heard yet in a module and compares favorably
to everything except the Yamaha GT2.
On the East coast, try looking for a home digital, used.
Best of luck, Bruce Pennington, out here in Colorado
Judy
> Then try the Technics. You will be buy the Roland. :)
>
> Heavier, though.
>
Nick Bell
The SX-P30 sound and action are both far inferior to the other two. For me the
Yamaha has the nice action but the Roland has the nice piano sounds -- for you it
may be different. There are plenty of piano modules which sound even better than
the RD600 and P200. However if you try to find a weighted keyboard controller with
a realistic piano action ... you won't (IMHO). Also try to find a Kawai MP9000,
they should be interesting but Kawai doesn't seem very keen on selling any.
Have fun ...
Nick.
MaryYYang wrote:
> Hi! This is the newsgroup i have been looking for!
>
> Question:
>
Almida
>There are plenty of piano modules which sound even better than
>the RD600 and P200.
How about naming a few!
Mitdh
Ronnie Singer
I am in the process of buying a digital piano as well, a process which I am finding
more difficult by the day. The three things which are important to me when buying a
digital piano are: feel or touch of the keyboard, realistic sound of the piano and
polyphony (64 vs 128).
I would advise you, not only to try out the actions of different pianos but to read
about them as well, e.g., the RD-600 uses a PA-4 action, the GeneralMusic PRO 2 a
Fatar action and the Kawai MP9000 uses the latest technique, AWA (Acoustically
Weighted Action). It will help you make a better informed final decision.
On saturday I tried out again the RD-600 and the Kawai MP9000 again for the umpteenth
time (the sales staff must be sick of seeing me!). Both are very good IMHO.
However, the Kawai is a far superior action because the keys are made of real wood
and the sound is very very realistic. Real wood simulates the action and balance of
an actual piano better than anything else. However, as Nick wrote below, Kawai don't
seem that interested in selling them. For your information, the Kawai MP9000 is a
professional stage piano and is quite heavy - approx. 33kg. Still, I really liked
the action and sound. I looked at the P200 but did not really like it - the action
and sound did not feel and sound right to me, but others here take a different view.
I have not tried out the Technics SX-P30 so I can't comment on it. Oh, one other
things about the Kawai, I have triedto locate information and user comments about it,
but have so far failed. I have only seen info about it on a few US sites, at Kawai's
web site in Japan and on a few European web-sites. It only came out on 1st October
this year so this may be why informatiom about it is so sparse.
Regarding the issue of polyphony (64 or 128), I am concerned that one day, when
playing a complex piece, e.g., Liszt or Rachmaninov that I shall run out of notes if
my digital piano only supports 64 polyphony. I recently asked a question about this
issue in the group (see the replies above to '64 vs. 128 polyphony). Given that this
may be a real problem (at least for me) what digital pianos which are 'portable' and
support 128 polyphony? The only one that I have been able to track down is PRO 2 by
GeneralMusic which from the literature on their web site sound pretty impressive.
Personally, I realise that digital pianos, given the current state-of-the-art, are
not acoustic pianos and may never be, they have limitations. You have to work out a
balance between the pros and cons of each instrument through trying them out
yourself, reading as much literature/reviews about them as you can and asking people
(from this group) about their own personal experiences. Once you have done all of
this you can then make an informed decision about which piano best suits your needs.
Hope some of this helps you in making your decision.
Regards
Ronnie Singer
Reuel V. Lubag
mary...@aol.com (MaryYYang) wrote:
>Hi! This is the newsgroup i have been looking for!
>
>Question:
>
> I have read some comments about the Roland RD600, but havn't heard much about
>the Technics SX-P30 or the Yamaha P200 in comparison.
Mary,
I own the Technics and use it for gigs. It sounds best through a good PA, but it's very portable and very vanilla only two
sounds. But I got it for under a thousand. The Roland is a nice unit with good sound and flexibility. The Yamaha is the
descendant of my old PF85 and to me plays very much like a real piano. The Korg N1 has the most sounds out of all and has a
nice sounding stereo grand. Plus, it's easy to program on the fly with the realtime editing. My church just got me one to play
for $1399 from a place in Texas. I'm primarily a jazz player, that's why I got the Technics. It only weighs about 45 lbs. The
Roland is a bit more as is the Korg. The Yamaha weight is around 70-80 lbs. because of the built in speakers.
You need to decide on the types of music you are going to play and try each instrument at least twice. If I could choose
now, I'd trade my Technics for the Korg just because I need the sounds for other styles of music.
Judy
> the RD600 and P200.
Really? I haven't heard them. Which ones do you mean? Not the Oberheim Minigrand
Piano, or the Yamaha P50M or the Alesis Nano Piano, or the Kurzweil Micro Piano, or
the GeneralMusic RealPiano Expander. The only piano sound I have heard so far that is
better than the RD600 or P200 or Korg N1/SGProX is the Coakley Perfect Piano sample.
And for playing that you need an Ensoniq ZR76 (or whatever it is - only 76 keys) or a
sampler.
demon
Mary
Here's my observations:
You can't rely on Manufacturer's product descriptions. They all describe
their products
as "the most realistic piano sound this side of a Steinway..... blah blah
blah" when in reality
there seems to be great variation.
I bought a P30 a few months ago without doing any serious research into
alternative products.
It had been 10 years since I last played the piano ( acoustic upright ) and
I wished to revive the
interest. The P30 sounded very much like a piano ( through headphones ) and
felt like a piano.
There was an RD600 in the shop which had a lighter action ( but with the
hammer feel ) and
a reasonable piano sound, but I preferred the P30 sound. Of course the RD600
had a greater
range of sounds and features but I was primarily interested in the sound of
the piano in which
the P30 excelled.
I recently tried the Korg SG-ProG and Kurzweil PC88 which have similar
feature sets to the RD600.
I was amazed at how bad the piano sounds on both machines were. I intend to
go back with my
own headphones and try them again as it is always possible that I was given
a duff pair on 'phones
in the shop. I can't believe they really were that bad.
There is one problem with the P30 ( which is why I have been trying other
machines ) and that
is a slight defect in the sound generation. After a note has been struck and
the key released,
there is a very faint and short buzzing noise. But maybe this is a 'feature'
of other machines also ?
Good luck
Mike Brown
Nick Bell
Well, apart from the PerfectPiano, there's the Gigasampler piano. Perhaps I was a bit
imprecise -- I should have said there are lots of piano modules and sample sets and you
may prefer the sound of some of them to that of the P200 or RD600. There are people who
find the Oberheim is the piano of their dreams(?!?). Bottom line: it's a very subjective
area. I find the P200 piano sound not at all to my liking. BTW there's one sound on the
RD600 (I think it's grand piano 2 subsection 5) which appears to have been sampled via a
dummy head mic pair in the player's position, so when you play it through phones it
sounds as if you're actually sitting at a piano. Does anyone have more info on this?
Best regards,
Nick.
Tommy Kelly
First, I have to say that the prices quoted on this thread
make me weep. Here in Glasgow, Scotland the lowest price
for a Roland RD600s is 1300 pounds - say $2080.
The Yamaha P200 is about the same, and the Kawai MP9000
is 1700 pounds - say $2720.
I'd be grateful for any more depressing prices, since
I travel to the US on business fairly regularly.
So, my 2 pence-worth:
I tried the Yamaha and the Kawai. Before playing I would
have treated the Kawai's spruce keys as a gimmick, but
not now. I didn't realise I was so pernickety until I felt the
difference between the Yamaha's plastic and the real stuff
on the Kawai.
I'm still new to the whole digital music scene, but I presumed
that it was possible to use these keyboards to trigger any midi
synth box, and so the precise sound quality of the piano
itself was less important than how it felt.
If that is the case, then the Kawai is in a different class
from the Yamaha.
(Very dear though, and a big heavy beast despite having
no speakers).
cheers,
Tommy
Peter Hughes
Tommy Kelly wrote:
> mary...@aol.com (MaryYYang) asks about stage pianos:
>
> First, I have to say that the prices quoted on this thread
> make me weep. Here in Glasgow, Scotland the lowest price
> for a Roland RD600s is 1300 pounds - say $2080.
> The Yamaha P200 is about the same, and the Kawai MP9000
> is 1700 pounds - say $2720.
> I'd be grateful for any more depressing prices, since
> I travel to the US on business fairly regularly.
>
Tommy, I can probably help relieve your depression by saying that the
lowest price I've been quoted so far (I've just begun) for a RD-600 down
here in the south of England is about 1500 pounds! I think, as usual,
the retail trade over here is having a laugh at our expense -
literally. Aparantly the recommended price is 1700 pounds.
Returning to the subject thread, has anybody been able to do a
side-by-side comparason between the RD-600 and the Roland 'home' piano
range such as the HP330, HP555?. (NB, AIUI, US model numbers are
different.) Obviously they have very different features as appropriate
to the different markets (built in speakers, pretty case/stand,
different effects etc.), but in terms of keyboard quality and basic
piano sounds how do they compare?
Peter.
Almida
got me very interested in "test driving" one. I have not seen it at any local
music stores. Is it a pro board or will I find it in "home" piano stores?
BTW I live in the SF bay area if anyone knows of a store that carries one,
please post which store.
mitch
pTooner
Peter Hughes wrote:
>
>
> Returning to the subject thread, has anybody been able to do a
> side-by-side comparason between the RD-600 and the Roland 'home' piano
> range such as the HP330, HP555?. (NB, AIUI, US model numbers are
> different.) Obviously they have very different features as appropriate
> to the different markets (built in speakers, pretty case/stand,
> different effects etc.), but in terms of keyboard quality and basic
> piano sounds how do they compare?
>
> Peter.
Yes I did, Peter, in fact I hauled around a KR570 for a while.
Subjectively, I thought the keys felt heavier and more responsive on the KR
than they did on the RD. The HP series felt the same as the KR. Due to the
sound system it used, I was extremely impressed with the KR sound as
compared to the RD, but on the other hand it couldn't produce the volume for
a big club. In short, they were intended for different purposes but I never
had a problem with the KR except for it's size and weight.
Gerry
Better to understand a little than to misunderstand a lot.
Greg Sullivan
but it was one of the high end ones apparently. I *loved*
the action on this instrument! Until today I thought the
best action was the Roland PA-4 action, but now
the Kawai gets my vote. Apparently the MP9000 has
the same action as the instrument I played today - I'm
very keen to try that piano too.
I don't know how much of my good opinion of the Kawai action
is related to the wooden keys. All I know is that it felt
very good!
Greg.
Tommy Kelly wrote in message ...
>mary...@aol.com (MaryYYang) asks about stage pianos:
>
>First, I have to say that the prices quoted on this thread
>make me weep. Here in Glasgow, Scotland the lowest price
>for a Roland RD600s is 1300 pounds - say $2080.
>The Yamaha P200 is about the same, and the Kawai MP9000
>is 1700 pounds - say $2720.
>I'd be grateful for any more depressing prices, since
>I travel to the US on business fairly regularly.
>
wryboy
>> side-by-side comparason between the RD-600 and the Roland 'home' piano
>> range such as the HP330, HP555?. (NB, AIUI, US model numbers are
>> different.) Obviously they have very different features as appropriate
>> to the different markets (built in speakers, pretty case/stand,
>> different effects etc.), but in terms of keyboard quality and basic
>> piano sounds how do they compare?
I spoke to a Roland tech rep. yesterday. He informed me that the keyboard
action of the RD600, HP 335 and FP-1 are identical (all are PA-4).
The HP/KR lines are considerably more expensive as they designed to
be furniture pieces for the home as much as musical instruments.
Here's the Roland/Yamaha web pages with all their product lines:
http://www.rolandus.com
http://www.yamaha.com
Phil
RHagenston
In article <368C016E...@geddings.net>, pTooner <gerr...@geddings.net>
writes:
>Peter Hughes wrote:
>
>> Returning to the subject thread, has anybody been able to do a
>> side-by-side comparason between the RD-600 and the Roland 'home' piano
>> range such as the HP330, HP555?. (NB, AIUI, US model numbers are
>> different.) Obviously they have very different features as appropriate
>> to the different markets (built in speakers, pretty case/stand,
>> different effects etc.), but in terms of keyboard quality and basic
>> piano sounds how do they compare?
>>
>> Peter.
>
>Yes I did, Peter, in fact I hauled around a KR570 for a while.
>Subjectively, I thought the keys felt heavier and more responsive on the KR
>than they did on the RD. The HP series felt the same as the KR. Due to the
>sound system it used, I was extremely impressed with the KR sound as
>compared to the RD, but on the other hand it couldn't produce the volume for
>a big club. In short, they were intended for different purposes but I never
>had a problem with the KR except for it's size and weight.
>
>Gerry
>
I own a KR-570. About two weeks ago I discovered that a Mars music store had
opened in a shopping center that I occasionally visit, so I stopped in and
spent some time with the Roland RD600 and Yamaha P200. Of the two, I much
preferred the RD600, a choice that is simply a very subjective matter of taste.
However, one thing bothered me about the RD600 compared to my KR-570. I
didn't notice in the RD600 the obvious changes in harmonics that my KR-570
produces when the same key is played at different velocities. Much of the
beauty of music played on an acoustic piano comes from the subtle but constant
changes in timbre as the same notes are played at different levels of loudness.
The KR-570 produces that effect to what I find to be a very satisfying degree.
The tone of the RD600, although nice, didn't seem to have that
characteristic--leading to a kind of monotony that whispered "electronic."
Maybe the difference was due to the equalizer settings of the amplifier system
that the RD600 was connected to (I didn't think to check that while in the
store). Still, I wonder if Roland uses a different tone generation method for
the RD600 than is used on the HP and KR pianos. Maybe the pianos in the fancy
cabinets offer something extra besides the speakers and the cabinetry.
Richard
Ronnie Singer
Almida wrote:
I have seen and tried the MP9000 many times here in Laox in Tokyo. It is a
professional stage piano. As some others above have commented, the feel and
action fo the keyboard I think is very very good. I still think the
RD-600/A90EX's action is also very good but lighter than the MP9000. I also
think that the piano sound and its support for sympathetic reasonance is very
realistic. co_jones below in his "Digital Piano Review" tried out the Kawai
CA890 which uses (I think?) the same technology at the MP9000. However, he said
"I couldn't seem to control the variations in color: ...." I did not find this
when I tried the MP9000 but maybe it depends on how atuned/experienced your ear
is, I don't know. Anyway, I think the MP9000 is worth checking out.
Re a store that carries it, I don't know, but there s some info and a spec sheet
on it at the following US site:
http://www.jimlaabs.com/keyboards/mp9000/piano.htm
I found it hard to track down English info about it, and two emails which I sent
to Kawai in the US have gone unanswered. Price-wise, here in Japan the MP9000 is
currently on sale for $1762 (1100ukp). I don't know about the US, but its a heck
of a lot cheaper than in Scotland from what Tommy Kelly was saying above.
Hope all this helps. Good luck.
Ronnie
Greg Sullivan
sound(s?),
but I was quite surprised at how good the action is, considering how small
and compact it is.
Just my 2 cents.
Greg.