Young Chang out, Yahama in
Jon Roberts
Ok, you guys (and gals) talked me out of the Young Chang grand (the
6'10" G-208). I also talked myself out of it--my second impression of
the Young Chang was not as favorable as the first. Thank goodness I no
longer buy anything on impulse and a big thanks to this newsgroup!
I wanted the YC to be an awesome piano and the dealer almost had me
convinced it was. Before test driving the YC for a second time, I
visited a Yahama dealer and played the entire C line. It's hard not to
be impressed with these pianos, although very easy to be unimpressed
with Yahama's pricing. I think the Yahamas are overpriced, however, I'm
convinced they are the superior piano. I still think the YC's are a
good value, however, I'm more interested in a tone and a construction
that will satisfy me for a lifetime. So, I've decided to spend several
of my extremities, drown myself in debt, and buy the Yahama.
I've also decided to go with a Disklavier (which explains the expense of
several extremities). I'm heavily into midi and computers, and it just
seems to make sense to get something that can talk to the rest of my
gear. I've pretty well decided to purchase the DC5IIXG (6'7"). From my
sampling of the C line, I found the C3 and C6 to be too brilliant for my
taste, however the C5 sounded perfect. My local Yamaha dealer is also
an excellent technician and I'm confident he'll tweak it to my
specifications.
So, I'm curious if anyone thinks this is also a mistake. Is the
Disklavier a wise move? The internal tone generator completely sucks
and in my opinion cheapens the piano, however I'm not buying it for the
tone generator. I like the idea of being able to control my other
keyboards and the recording/playback capability seems well worth the
extra money.
My local dealer is charging me $25.6k. The piano supposedly retails for
$44k. The DC3IIXG is only $1200 less, so the DC5 also seems like the
best value (the DC6 is $3k more and way too bright anyway). I found a
more distant dealer who will sell me a 3 month old DC5IIXG for about $2k
less, however it's been used in a hotel and I don't want to take a
chance on it. My local dealer has to special order the piano but I
think I'm better off going that route.
Thanks again for your help!
-Jon Roberts
rob...@cf.missouri.edu
DZappa
Jon Roberts <rob...@cf.missouri.edu> writes:
>> I think the Yahamas are overpriced, however, I'm
convinced they are the superior piano. I still think the YC's are a
good value, however, I'm more interested in a tone and a construction
that will satisfy me for a lifetime.<<
Wait, if they are a superior piano, then are you comparing the price to
the Young Chang, or is it just a blanket statement that Yamaha pianos are
over priced? I don't understand why someone would buy something that was
overpriced. If tone and construction are important to you then do you
expect to get those benefits for the same price as a piano that isn't as
well built and doesn't sound as good?
Acura's are more expensive than Hondas, but does that make them
overpriced? Not if you've ever owned one. I get just a bit riled when
consumers think they pay too much for an item when they are comparing
apples to Buicks.
Ok - maybe Jon means the Yamaha is a bit more than his budget originally
allowed, but for a lifetime investment isn't it worth it? overpriced?
not if you're buying it......
Dave
Rick Barry
On 29 Jun 1997 16:06:20 GMT, dza...@aol.com (DZappa) gushed
enthusiastically:
Well I can't speak for Jon and I do think you have some very relevant
points.
However, I too have many times felt that I am paying a 70% increase in
price and only getting a 20% increase in value. Just possibly this is
the point Jon was trying to make- only he can say for sure.
I just wish you hadnt used Acura as an example- but that story is not
for this newsgroup :)
Rick Barry
Neil Janklow
I am a piano technician and have just left 5 years in retail and
wholesale piano sales management. You are correct. The C series with
Disklavier system is over priced in relation to the actual value and
resale value. Everybody in the industry knows this but the market bears
it because people continue to spend money for the name.
If you want a full sounding grand as a MIDI controller, have you
considered purchasing a used Mason and Hamlin, Steinway, Knabe or
Baldwin and having a QuietTime system installed on it? (QT system &
installation ~$2000) Your total investment would be approx. half and if
you choose carefully, the piano would be superior to a Yamaha C.
I know sales reps like to scare customers into believing used pianos are
a bag of worms. The reasons are obvious. They won't be able to isolate
one piano for you on their floor if you intend to look all over town for
private party used grands. They must eliminate that option or sell you
a used piano off their floor which is like buying a used car at a
dealer.
I have sold new and used American, European, Japanese and Korean
pianos. There are differences in materials and construction between
manufacturers as well as differences in same make pianos over time. The
important factors are price in relation to quality of the piano you are
buying.
The Japanese pianos were a good value up to the mid 1980s but have
recently reflected an inflated Yen which is now coming down slightly.
Even though the Japanese have excelled in robotics that allow for
uniform tolerances in construction they are no match against a 20 to 40
year old Steinway, Knabe or Mason Hamlin's materials and craftsmanship.
By the way QuietTime allows you to use the piano's action to send MIDI
data with or without the strings being hit by hammers. If you want the
piano to play back by solenoids like the Disklavier, you could install a
PianoDisc system without the Emu sound card for about $5k. Here's
PianoDisc's URL; http://www.pianodisc.com/products.html
Finding a great used grand is time consuming but won’t require
sacrificing the extremities needed to play it! You’re looking at $12
-- $16k for a grand with 40+ years of playing left before rebuild. If
you’re a good negotiator this price could include the player/MIDI system
verses the Yamaha which comes to over $32,600 with interest at 10% on a
5 year loan. Please seriously re-consider and take a look at some
quality pianos in people’s homes and bring a technician you trust who is
a licensed player piano system installer.
Good luck!
Jon Roberts wrote:
>
> Ok, you guys (and gals) talked me out of the Young Chang grand (the
> 6'10" G-208). I also talked myself out of it--my second impression of
> the Young Chang was not as favorable as the first. Thank goodness I no
> longer buy anything on impulse and a big thanks to this newsgroup!
>
> I wanted the YC to be an awesome piano and the dealer almost had me
> convinced it was. Before test driving the YC for a second time, I
> visited a Yahama dealer and played the entire C line. It's hard not to
> be impressed with these pianos, although very easy to be unimpressed
> with Yahama's pricing. I think the Yahamas are overpriced, however, I'm
> convinced they are the superior piano. I still think the YC's are a
> good value, however, I'm more interested in a tone and a construction
DZappa
Neil Janklow <ne...@home.com> wrote:
>>I am a piano technician and have just left 5 years in retail and
wholesale piano sales management. You are correct. The C series with
Disklavier system is over priced in relation to the actual value and
resale value. Everybody in the industry knows this but the market bears
it because people continue to spend money for the name.<<
Neil:
With all due respect, what makes you think the Disklavier or Yamaha is
overpriced? And what exactly are you referring to when you say "actual
value"? Are you saying that by YOUR standards Yamaha is overpriced? I
have been in the industry ten years, have sold Yamaha for ten years and
find that many non-Yamaha dealers will do anything to de-value a Yamaha
piano. Did you work for a Yamaha dealer per chance?
The Yamaha is a good piano for the money, and as far as the Disklavier
system vs PianoDisc - of course the Disklavier costs more, it's a much
more technically advanced system. And generally PianoDisc units are
installed on cheaper pianos which means instead of 30K you can spend 10K.
In most customer's eyes they both look like a piano - they both move the
keys and play by themselves so why is there such a price difference?
Quality, period.
I just don't think your advice to forget the C and go with something
cheaper is sound. You get what you pay for. Yamaha prices are in line
with the quality of product you are getting or else they wouldn't be the
#1 selling musical instrument company in the US. The market takes care of
itself, always has, always will. Want to buy a Sojin? How about a Yugo?
Those product were cheap in every sense of the word. Yamaha is a good
value for your hard earned buck, period.
Regards
Dave
pTooner
DZappa wrote:
> Neil Janklow <ne...@home.com> wrote:
>
> >>I am a piano technician and have just left 5 years in retail and
> wholesale piano sales management. You are correct. The C series with
>
> Disklavier system is over priced in relation to the actual value and
> resale value. Everybody in the industry knows this but the market
> bears
> it because people continue to spend money for the name.<<
>
> Neil:
>
> With all due respect, what makes you think the Disklavier or Yamaha is
>
> overpriced? And what exactly are you referring to when you say
> "actual
> value"? Are you saying that by YOUR standards Yamaha is overpriced?
That is exactly what he said, and I for one agree completely.
> The Yamaha is a good piano for the money,
That is your opinion, which some of us don't share.
>
I won't comment on the two player systems, because I am not an expert
and am not particularly interested in that field.
> I just don't think your advice to forget the C and go with something
> cheaper is sound. You get what you pay for. Yamaha prices are in
> line
> with the quality of product you are getting or else they wouldn't be
> the
> #1 selling musical instrument company in the US.
The Ford Taurus is the best selling car in the US
> The market takes care of
> itself, always has, always will. Want to buy a Sojin? How about a
> Yugo?
> Those product were cheap in every sense of the word. Yamaha is a
> good
> value for your hard earned buck, period.
Not in my opinion.Regards
Gerry
--
邢 唷��
Rick Barry
On 2 Jul 1997 03:03:25 GMT, dza...@aol.com (DZappa) gushed
enthusiastically:
>Neil Janklow <ne...@home.com> wrote:
>
>>>I am a piano technician and have just left 5 years in retail and
>wholesale piano sales management. You are correct. The C series with
>Disklavier system is over priced in relation to the actual value and
>resale value. Everybody in the industry knows this but the market bears
>it because people continue to spend money for the name.<<
>
>Neil:
>
>With all due respect, what makes you think the Disklavier or Yamaha is
>overpriced? And what exactly are you referring to when you say "actual
>value"? Are you saying that by YOUR standards Yamaha is overpriced? I
>have been in the industry ten years, have sold Yamaha for ten years and
>find that many non-Yamaha dealers will do anything to de-value a Yamaha
>piano. Did you work for a Yamaha dealer per chance?
>
>The Yamaha is a good piano for the money, and as far as the Disklavier
>system vs PianoDisc - of course the Disklavier costs more, it's a much
>more technically advanced system. And generally PianoDisc units are
>installed on cheaper pianos which means instead of 30K you can spend 10K.
>In most customer's eyes they both look like a piano - they both move the
>keys and play by themselves so why is there such a price difference?
>Quality, period.
>
>I just don't think your advice to forget the C and go with something
>cheaper is sound. You get what you pay for. Yamaha prices are in line
>with the quality of product you are getting or else they wouldn't be the
>#1 selling musical instrument company in the US. The market takes care of
>itself, always has, always will. Want to buy a Sojin? How about a Yugo?
> Those product were cheap in every sense of the word. Yamaha is a good
>value for your hard earned buck, period.
>
>Regards
>Dave
How can you possibly put a Yamha as better than a Mason and Hamlin ?
or am I misinterpreting your post ?
Bewildered.....
Rick Barry
-Chen,J.L.
>>I just don't think your advice to forget the C and go with something
>>cheaper is sound. You get what you pay for. Yamaha prices are in line
>>with the quality of product you are getting or else they wouldn't be the
>>#1 selling musical instrument company in the US. The market takes care of
>>itself, always has, always will. Want to buy a Sojin? How about a Yugo?
>> Those product were cheap in every sense of the word. Yamaha is a good
>>value for your hard earned buck, period.
>>
>>Regards
>>Dave
>
>
>How can you possibly put a Yamha as better than a Mason and Hamlin ?
> or am I misinterpreting your post ?
>
>Bewildered.....
>
>Rick Barry
Rick :
Where did Dave mention Yamaha is as good or better than Mason and Hamlin?
I believe Dave said the Yamaha is a good value for the money, which I
agree. Here I am talking about the street price, not the MSRP. Since most
of Yamahas sold at pretty good discount. M&H is a much more expensive
piano and should not compare to a Yamaha (unless you are talking about
the Yamaha S series which I have never seen in dealer showrooms.).
Julian
Jon Roberts
> On 29 Jun 1997 16:06:20 GMT, dza...@aol.com (DZappa) wrote:
>
> >Wait, if they are a superior piano, then are you comparing the price to
> >the Young Chang, or is it just a blanket statement that Yamaha pianos
are
> >over priced? I don't understand why someone would buy something that
was
> >overpriced. If tone and construction are important to you then do you
> >expect to get those benefits for the same price as a piano that isn't as
> >well built and doesn't sound as good?
Dave,
No, I don't expect those benefits for the same price. I expect to pay
more. However,
I don't think Yamahas costing nearly twice as much as Young Changs are
twice as good, but nevertheless, they are superior. An increase in quality
often results in a disproportionately higher increase in price. And even
though I perceive the price to be too high, I will reluctantly pay it
because I want the better instrument. Basically, -my right brain tells me
I would be much happier with the Yahama over the YC, my left brain tells me
compared to a YC, I'm not getting as good a value (my right brain is just
a tad bigger). Put one final way, my love for the piano outweighs my
disagreement with the price.
> >
> >Acura's are more expensive than Hondas, but does that make them
> >overpriced? Not if you've ever owned one. I get just a bit riled when
> >consumers think they pay too much for an item when they are comparing
> >apples to Buicks.
> >
Believe it or not, I own an Acura CL, love the car and view it as an
excellent value (it's not twice as expensive though as a comparable Honda).
However, consider a Ferrari, Lambroghini, Rolls Royce, etc. While
arguably better, they represent a poor value. But, if I had that kind of
money to burn, I'm sure I'd consider them too.
> >Ok - maybe Jon means the Yamaha is a bit more than his budget originally
> >allowed, but for a lifetime investment isn't it worth it? overpriced?
> >not if you're buying it......
> >
> >Dave
>
> Well I can't speak for Jon and I do think you have some very relevant
> points.
>
> However, I too have many times felt that I am paying a 70% increase in
> price and only getting a 20% increase in value. Just possibly this is
> the point Jon was trying to make- only he can say for sure.
>
> Rick Barry
>
Rick,
You said it better than I did. Thanks!
Jon Roberts
rob...@cf.missouri.edu
DZappa
In article <33bb0263...@news.mindspring.com>,
viaastr...@mindspring.com (Rick Barry) writes in reponse to my post re
Disklavier and PianoDisc:
>How can you possibly put a Yamha as better than a Mason and Hamlin ?
> or am I misinterpreting your post ?
>
>
I actually got the great pleasure of about 40 minutes at the M&H grand at
the trade show this year and found it to be a quite pleasing instrument.
As to quality and longevity we'll have to see but all looks quite well for
the MSR folks in that regard.
My post was to state that the DISKLAVIER system was a more technically
advanced system than the PIANODISC, no more or less. I apologize if any
statement I made was interpreted as comparing PIANO quality and not
TECHNOLOGY quality of the player systems.
HAPPY 4TH and keep those who keep us free in your thoughts today.
Regards
DZ
Rick Barry
On 4 Jul 1997 03:41:40 GMT, dza...@aol.com (DZappa) gushed
enthusiastically:
>
>My post was to state that the DISKLAVIER system was a more technically
>advanced system than the PIANODISC, no more or less. I apologize if any
>statement I made was interpreted as comparing PIANO quality and not
>TECHNOLOGY quality of the player systems.
>
...and my sincere apologies for my misinterpretation.
Rick