FS: 1895 Steinway B Grand Piano (New York)
Greg
This piano is at Sorcerer Sound Studio B in New York City, which
recently closed. It has been used on hundreds of albums. It was
rebuilt by the late Sam Camilleri.
Steinway appraises this piano as needing minor work, approximately
$2000, to make it compare with current Steinway rebuilts, which run
$52,000. Brand new Bs go for $62,000, but they can't compare with the
rich sound of this century-old masterpiece. Contact us at:
Sorcerer Sound
212-226-0480
g...@sorcerersound.com
HS
recorded in the Norah Jones' CD, right?
"Greg" <ggua...@pipeline.com> wrote in message
news:3f8d8f7e...@news.east.earthlink.net...
H. Emmerson Meyers
old!!! Pianos are not like violins. They do not get better with age. And as
far as that rebuild goes, what exactly was replaced and when??? Don't you
think the readers deserve an answer before they plunk down 20G for an almost
100 year old piano. I have set forth a list below for you to answer, please
also indicate date of replacement for each item. The list is by no means
comprehensive.
hammers?
shanks?
action?
keys?
strings?
pins?
pin block?
bridges?
sound board?
"Greg" <ggua...@pipeline.com> wrote in message
news:3f8d8f7e...@news.east.earthlink.net...
Roger W. Norman
old piano results in a superior piano. Sorcerer Sound was a well respected
studio and I have no doubts that the maintenance on this particular piano
was exemplary, nor do I doubt that the $2000 for the finishing touches would
result in a Steinway that is worth the $22k. In a current listing of
quality instruments a 1960 Steinway upright lists for $13k
(http://www.concertpitchpiano.com/ForSaleJP106_Steinway_Upr.html.)
Additionally, at
http://www.countrypiano.com/showroom/steinway/Steinway94474.html you will
find a 1898 Victorian Rosewood at $59k.
Had this been in somebody's living room or music room, then you might be
right. An unused piano is one that's dying a long slow death, but to
discount it's sound without having heard it simply because it's one hundred
years old doesn't hold water. If I had the $22k to purchase this baby and
have the work done, it would be sitting in my living room right now, with
mic cables permanently available via holes drilled for them down through my
living room floor to the studio! <g>
One needs only look at the list of producers and artists to know that a high
level of maintenance on their equipment and instruments was a necessity.
These are not people that would forget about your list of possible problems,
but would indeed be proactive in making certain that none of your list
becomes a problem for their clients. Go to their website and pay attention
to what you see.
And besides, were I going to plunk down $22k for an instrument, you'd best
damned believe that I'd be going up to New York to play it first. I can
drive over to Schaeffer and Sons and have my pick of their finely rebuilt
pianos.
--
Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net.
See how far $20 really goes.
"H. Emmerson Meyers" <vkr...@starpower.net> wrote in message
news:bmn9ne$ed0$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
Bond
1894 model B) is that a soundboard replacement is necessary to get the
treble section to "sing" like a newer instrument. The original
soundboards at 80-100 years old have a distinctive "old piano" sound
to them.
Bond
H. Emmerson Meyers
don't you tell us what was replaced and when?? Afraid to?? Don't know??
As for your claim that "Steinway appraises this piano as needing very little
work" I would like you to post the author of that statement or the document
that says that in writing. If you cannot do so, then I will assume that you
claim is a bunch of hot air, and rigthfully so!!!
"Roger W. Norman" <rno...@starpower.net> wrote in message
news:bmos20$7ud$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
LeBaron & Alrich
> Well, I see that you did not answer the questions set forth below!!! Why
> don't you tell us what was replaced and when?? Afraid to?? Don't know??
>
> As for your claim that "Steinway appraises this piano as needing very little
> work" I would like you to post the author of that statement or the document
> that says that in writing. If you cannot do so, then I will assume that you
> claim is a bunch of hot air, and rigthfully so!!!
The hot air in this thread is coming from you, fella. If you don't want
to buy the piano, fine. I'm sure Greg will be more than happy not to see
you. However, in that case, you might as well shut up about it, too.
--
hank alrich * secret mountain
audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
"If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"
H. Emmerson Meyers
your customers??? And I might add you have still not answered the
questions!!!
"LeBaron & Alrich" <walk...@thegrid.net> wrote in message
news:1g314dl.1kkoclvyomd9iN%walk...@thegrid.net...
LeBaron & Alrich
> If this is the manner in which you speak to the public, how do you treat
> your customers??? And I might add you have still not answered the
> questions!!!
I see. So we shall take it you proclaim yourself able to judge a piano
from Usenet, while being unable to discern to whom you are replying?
Fascinating, I am sure, to a shrink.
My customers are doing fine, thanks. If you would like to audition the
piano then do so, if you can figure out who is offering it for sale.
--
ha
Dave Martin
> If this is the manner in which you speak to the public, how do you treat
> your customers??? And I might add you have still not answered the
> questions!!!
>
to are NOT the ones selling the piano...
--
Dave Martin
Java Jive Studio
Nashville, TN
www.javajivestudio.com
John S. Etnier
Check the headers and you'll see the original FS was crossposted to
five newsgroups- thus it can pick up responses from people outside the
rec.audio.pro community. I think that's what's happened here. Check 'H.
Emmerson Meyers' on http://groups.google.com and you'll see he is a
prolific poster on rec.music.makers.piano, one of the newsgroups where
the ad appeared.
In article <bmss50$qqcdh$1...@ID-190397.news.uni-berlin.de>, Dave Martin
<dma...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> "H. Emmerson Meyers" <vkr...@starpower.net> wrote in message
> news:bmsgiq$if8$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
> > If this is the manner in which you speak to the public, how do you treat
> > your customers??? And I might add you have still not answered the
> > questions!!!
> >
> Look very, very closely and you may notice that the people you're responding
> to are NOT the ones selling the piano...
--
John Etnier
Studio Dual
http://www.studiodual.com
John S. Etnier
In article <BBB5F410.20B43%parod...@earthlink.net>, Jeff Fair
<parod...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> in article 29k0pv0d6tc765ppm...@4ax.com, Bond at
> catba...@hotmail.com wrote on 10/17/03 1:37 PM:
>
> > My experience with two fully restored Steinways (1920's model O and
> > 1894 model B) is that a soundboard replacement is necessary to get the
> > treble section to "sing" like a newer instrument. The original
> > soundboards at 80-100 years old have a distinctive "old piano" sound
> > to them.
> >
> > Bond
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:00:28 -0400, "Roger W. Norman"
> > <rno...@starpower.net> wrote:
> >
> This is probably because the bearing of the soundboard has changed (losing
> its original horizontal "shape" on the vertical axis), this is a common
> problem with older pianos.
As an owner of a 1926 "M" I find this intriguing. Can people in this
group comment on this concept? It's new to me.
Ed Foote
> This is probably because the bearing of the soundboard has changed (losing
> its original horizontal "shape" on the vertical axis), this is a common
> problem with older pianos.
John asks:
>>As an owner of a 1926 "M" I find this intriguing. Can people in this group
comment on this concept? It's new to me. >>
It is common for Steinway pianos to lose the "crown" in a soundboard
after a number of years. The boards are originally built with an upward bulge
in them and with time, this curve flattens out. It is usual that as this
happens, the tonal response of the piano goes down. There is a characteristic
sound to pianos with dead soundboards. The bass end gets rather "boomy" and
the fifth octave area loses its sustain as well as the ability to produce a
full bodied tone.
When listening to an older STeinway, it is instructive to play notes
between C40 (that is middle C) and the two octaves above it, listening to how
much change of tone there is between pp and FF playing. It is not uncommon for
rebuilders to attempt to mask the deficiency in this region with excessively
hard hammers, substituting loudness for power and depth.
A good board will produce a round tone with good sustain in this area, an
old one will either sound "thuddy" or glassy, with relatively short sustain.
I have a number of Steinway grands, some of them have poor boards in them,
yet they perform well where they are. They are leased into recording studios,
where the lack of "tone" and sustain is less of a problem. Tracking studios
usually need brilliance and eveness more than anything else,(that is why the
Yamaha C7 is by far the most popular studio piano in Nashville).
About 2 pianos out of 7 will have a nice soundboard left in them after 50
years or so. My best sounding piano is a 1915 model O which will play as well
or better than any Steinway I have seen!
Regards,
Ed Foote RPT
http://www.uk-piano.org/edfoote
CD's at Gasparo.com.
GSCD #332, "Beethoven In the Temperaments"
GSCD #344 . "Six Degrees of Tonality"
Caution, these CD's contain pure intervals and extensive liner notes!
H. Emmerson Meyers
"Ed Foote " <a4...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20031019115851...@mb-m11.aol.com...
Dave Martin
was directed towards people who weren't selling the piano...
--
Dave Martin
Java Jive Studio
Nashville, TN
www.javajivestudio.com
"John S. Etnier" <etn...@studiodual.com> wrote in message
news:191020030942077974%etn...@studiodual.com...
David Olsen
since I have a similiar issue. I have a Hamburg "M" (1930) which had
barely been used over its life and it plays very well. In the upper
octaves, there is a slight buzz which modulates according to humidity
levels which I had attributed (ignorantly?) to cracking in the
soundboard. Is it possible the explanation below could also be the
reason? Additionally, the instrument has all of its original
components - strings, hammers, dampeners, felts, etc... - and I am
wondering what the impact would be were I to replace some of these.
Do you risk losing the soft tone if you replace with modern parts?
- David Olsen
"John S. Etnier" <etn...@studiodual.com> wrote in message news:<191020030954373021%etn...@studiodual.com>...
ptooner
"David Olsen" <dotto...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8061ce77.03101...@posting.google.com...
> I'd like to add to John's post with an additional query of my own
> since I have a similiar issue. I have a Hamburg "M" (1930) which had
> barely been used over its life and it plays very well. In the upper
> octaves, there is a slight buzz which modulates according to humidity
> levels which I had attributed (ignorantly?) to cracking in the
> soundboard.
In my experience, buzzing is rarely caused by cracking in the soundboard.
It is sometimes a rib that is coming unglued, but more often is something
loose somewhere else in the piano. It can come from almost anywhere and it
very difficult to run down. If it is humidity sensitive, however, it is
somewhat more likely to be soundboard or rib related. One of the most
difficult buzzes I ever chased down turned out to be in a halogen floor lamp
standing near the piano.
Gerry
John S. Etnier
<a4...@aol.comnospam> wrote:
Thanks for such a detailed response. Much appreciated.
Joy
because of the wonderful bass. I love deep minor tones and this piano
is a joy to play with it's deep, ringing bass. It is a bit thin
however in the upper octave (high C/double ledger c and up). Sometimes
worse than at other times. How do I determine if my soundbaord is
dead? Or near dead?
. There is a characteristic sound to pianos with dead soundboards.
The bass end gets rather "boomy" and the fifth octave area loses its
sustain as well as the ability to produce a
full bodied tone.. .
H. Emmerson Meyers
is my understanding that this concept of the curved soundboard does not
apply to uprights so you do not have anything to worry about. I have also
read that it does not apply to all grands either. Some of the older
Chickering grands were designed to have flat soundboards (as opposed to
diaphramatic soundboards). If I am wrong I am sure that someone will point
this out.
"Joy" <sonl...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:810bd26.03102...@posting.google.com...
Ed Foote
is my understanding that this concept of the curved soundboard does not
apply to uprights so you do not have anything to worry about.
Greetings,
Uprights also have a crown in their soundboards. ( or at least, most are
built that way).
>>I have also
read that it does not apply to all grands either. Some of the older
Chickering grands were designed to have flat soundboards (as opposed to
diaphramatic soundboards) >>
"Flat" and "diaphramatic" are two different things. Actually, all
soundboards work as diaphrams, so the term is really a salesman's tool. Some
would say that it refers to a board that is thinner on the edges, but hairs are
being split.
Some Chickerings have inner rims that instill a lot of flexibility into the
soundboard structure. On these, I have observed that the string pressure
effectively flattens the board when they are strung. (I find a lot of crown
with the strings off).
Some other types have a system of agraffes on the bridge that alternate
string bearing pressure between positive and negative on adjacent notes. I have
seen one, (my mother's 1878 Hallet & Davis) where the board is totally flat
from side to side and top to bottom. However, this is very atypical.
H. Emmerson Meyers
"Ed Foote " <a4...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20031023064023...@mb-m10.aol.com...