Alesis/Fatar action or Roland PA-4 Hammer?
George Omura
now have another question. I took the advice offered here and had my son try
out some of the keyboards offered at a local music store. He tried the
Yamaha P200, the Roland RD600 and the Alesis QS8. He prefered the feel of
the QS8, saying that the Roland was too "light" and the Yamaha was too
"heavy". He also liked the "gadgets" and sound on the Alesis. I like the
price of the Alesis.
I've read on this and other newsgroups that the Rolands have a more robust
keyboard mechanism, while those based on the Fatar "action" tend to get
"mushy" over time; in other words, they wear out (the Alesis apparently uses
the "fatar" action). Can anyone deny or refute these claims? And in general,
how do the Alesis keyboard fair over time? I don't want to get something
that isn't going to last at least a few years with perhaps some abuse <G>.
Thanks,
George
Bob Cardone
The Fatar action is just not a good action for learning the "feel" of
an acoustic piano. It is a synth action and even though I have
played synths for 15-20 years, I still hate synth actions. The
Roland PA4 action in my opinion is excellent for a electronic
keyboard. It has most of the feel of a real piano. I have heard
that Fatar actions do not hold up well especially to a player that
plays "hard".
Bob Cardone
zZounds
them.
The Alesis does use the Fatar action. It seems to be a matter of personal
choice as to which action is the best. My preference, for action and
overall reliability, is the Roland RD 600; it's certainly the keyboard we
sell the most of to folks who make their living playing piano on a stage.
The P200 also has a nice action and nice sounds, and is very popular for
home use because the built in speakers make external monitors unnecessary.
The Alesis QS8 is the only one of the three that has the full General MIDI
soundset, which could be handy if he gets into composing or sequencing with
a computer, etc. Also, if all the B3 and synth sounds inspire him to
practice when otherwise he would not, that also is a plus.
Hope this helps.
Ray Campbell
zZounds Music Discovery Center
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George Omura wrote in message <74urk0$d6d$1...@news1.sirius.com>...
Bluespian0
any change in the action. I play heavy bass blues and it doesn't get babied. As
far as getting mushy, I wouldn't give it another thought.
Marc Sabatella
I've had Fatar keyboards considerably longer (almost 6 years), and would
say that although they don't get "mushy" with age, there are other
things that start going wrong with them. There are many plastic parts
inside that become brittle and break. This doesn't usually change the
feel (although I've had a couple of heys where the weights broke off)
but it does make them much noisier. One thing I did that was a no-no
was leave my keyboard in the car for long periods of time (several days)
in freezing weather. This tends to make plastic brittle. Hard to say
if it would have held up better if I had never done that. But still,
the repair guy tells me he sees Fatar keyboards needing repair work all
the time, but never sees Roland, and he is a dealer for both.
--------------
Marc Sabatella
ma...@outsideshore.com
Check out my latest CD, "Second Course"
Available on Cadence Jazz Records
Also "A Jazz Improvisation Primer", Scores, & More:
http://www.outsideshore.com/
George Omura
the Roland. My son and I like the Alesis, but my conservative side says to
go with the Roland. Judging from comments on this newsgroup and others I've
found on DejaNews, I won't have any regrets with the Roland in the long run.
Besides, once my son gets into MIDI, he'll have plenty of gadgets to play
with, I think.
GeorgeO
Adam Levin
> I've read on this and other newsgroups that the Rolands have a more robust
> keyboard mechanism, while those based on the Fatar "action" tend to get
> "mushy" over time; in other words, they wear out (the Alesis apparently uses
> the "fatar" action). Can anyone deny or refute these claims? And in general,
> how do the Alesis keyboard fair over time? I don't want to get something
> that isn't going to last at least a few years with perhaps some abuse <G>.
I've had my QS8 since they came out, and both myself and my now 2 1/2
year old daughter bang on it almost daily.
To the chap who mentioned "synth" keyboards, I don't quite know to
what he's referring. Fatar makes synth action keyboards, yeah, but
they also make weighted, piano action keyboards like the one in the
QS8 (and many other synths, like Ensoniq and Kurzweil).
-Adam
--
Rutherford, NJ USA Free speech online! _/ A Texas law says that when
http://westnet.com/~levins/ ________/ two trains meet at a railroad
<*> __________________________/ crossing, each shall come to a full
-O / stop and neither shall proceed until the other has gone.
Bob Cardone
>George Omura <gom...@sirius.com> wrote:
>> I've read on this and other newsgroups that the Rolands have a more robust
>> keyboard mechanism, while those based on the Fatar "action" tend to get
>> "mushy" over time; in other words, they wear out (the Alesis apparently uses
>> the "fatar" action). Can anyone deny or refute these claims? And in general,
>> how do the Alesis keyboard fair over time? I don't want to get something
>> that isn't going to last at least a few years with perhaps some abuse <G>.
>
>I've had my QS8 since they came out, and both myself and my now 2 1/2
>year old daughter bang on it almost daily.
>
>To the chap who mentioned "synth" keyboards, I don't quite know to
>what he's referring. Fatar makes synth action keyboards, yeah, but
>they also make weighted, piano action keyboards like the one in the
>QS8 (and many other synths, like Ensoniq and Kurzweil).
>
>-Adam
The Fatar action may have "weights" in it, but it is still a synth
type keyboard. The Roland has a "hammer action" type keyboard. Two
different animals. It has been my personal experience that under
professional use and hard playing, the Fatar actions do not seem to
hold up well at all. The Roland action , on the other hand, seems to
be indestructible.
Bob Cardone
Bob Cardone
You will love the Roland. I have posted many times on this newsgroup
that I have played in a big Jazz Club in Atlanta that has the worlds
worst Steinway Acoustic Grand that I have ever played on. It is out of
tune, the action stinks and it sounds horrible. All the pianists that
play at this club hate it with a passion.
I recently talked the club owner into letting me bring my Roland
RD600 on the gig. The other guys in the band and the audience and the
club owner couldn't believe what a difference it made, and how well
the RD-600 sounded. It made playing this gig such a pleasure compared
to the horror story of having to play that Steinway.
Bob Cardone
Marc Sabatella
>The Fatar action may have "weights" in it, but it is still a synth
>type keyboard. The Roland has a "hammer action" type keyboard. Two
>different animals.
In what way? I've been inside both, and found them substantially
similar - keys engage hammers with weights. Perhaps you are only
familiar with some particular model of Fatar controller that doesn't use
hammers?
Bob Sutherland
Bob Cardone wrote:
> I recently talked the club owner into letting me bring my Roland
> RD600 on the gig. The other guys in the band and the audience and the
> club owner couldn't believe what a difference it made, and how well
> the RD-600 sounded.
>
> Bob Cardone
Bob,
Any chance the club owner got the hint about his Steinway?
Bob Sutherland
rco...@my-dejanews.com
The action in general seems fine. But... there's a nasty metallic clicking
sound on two of the keys (mechanical, not electronic). This seems different
from the "usual" problem sometimes heard about (mushiness of response for
some people after a while). However, I wonder if it might be indicative of
poor QA at Fatar and/or some lack of robustness?
Also, in retrospect, although I have no reason to suppose I won't be able
to exchange the keyboard for a fully working one, it might have been easier
if I'd bought locally rather than mail-order! Perhaps mail-order isn't
well suited to big bulky items with lots of mechanical bits that may go
wrong (i.e. keyboards). Although it seems convenient for other types
of items (e.g. amps, MIDI modules etc.).
rcorbet.
George Omura wrote in message <74urk0$d6d$1...@news1.sirius.com>...
>Thanks to those who offered advice in selecting a keyboard for my son... I
>now have another question.
[...]
>I've read on this and other newsgroups that the Rolands have a more robust
>keyboard mechanism, while those based on the Fatar "action" tend to get
>"mushy" over time; in other words, they wear out (the Alesis apparently
uses
>the "fatar" action). Can anyone deny or refute these claims? And in general,
>how do the Alesis keyboard fair over time? I don't want to get something
>that isn't going to last at least a few years with perhaps some abuse <G>.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Adam Levin
> Adam Levin <levins...@westnet.com> wrote:
>>To the chap who mentioned "synth" keyboards, I don't quite know to
>>what he's referring. Fatar makes synth action keyboards, yeah, but
>>they also make weighted, piano action keyboards like the one in the
>>QS8 (and many other synths, like Ensoniq and Kurzweil).
> The Fatar action may have "weights" in it, but it is still a synth
> type keyboard. The Roland has a "hammer action" type keyboard. Two
> different animals. It has been my personal experience that under
> professional use and hard playing, the Fatar actions do not seem to
> hold up well at all. The Roland action , on the other hand, seems to
> be indestructible.
Not so -- the Fatar is indeed a "hammer action" keyboard, though as I
said they make other types of actions as well.
The Fatar action used in the Alesis QS8 is weighted, hammer action.
All the best,
-Adam
--
Rutherford, NJ USA Free speech online!/Old Tom was the single cracked bell in
http://westnet.com/~levins/ _______/ the University bell tower. The clapper
<*> __________________________/ dropped out shortly after it was cast, but the
-O / bell still tolled out some tremendously sonorous silences every hour.
Marc Sabatella
>For my 2 cents on this: I just took delivery of a mail-ordered Fatar SL880.
>The action in general seems fine. But... there's a nasty metallic clicking
>sound on two of the keys (mechanical, not electronic). This seems different
>from the "usual" problem sometimes heard about (mushiness of response for
>some people after a while). However, I wonder if it might be indicative of
>poor QA at Fatar and/or some lack of robustness?
I personally don't find the Fatar action particularly mushy, although
it's not as stiff as some pianos. I am not familiar with the particular
model you have, but I have seen the insides of several Fatars, including
one that was making the noise you are hearing. What was happening was
that the weighted hammers that sit below the key and go up when the key
goes down are supposed to be stopped from striking the underside of the
key by a plastic tooth at the pivot that bites into a rubber strip, but
some of the teeth had broken off. So on those keys, the hammers would
clunk against the keys. This had no effect whatsoever on the
performance, except that the performer himself would be annoyed by the
sound. I would describe this sound as "plastic", though, not
"metallic", so it is possible you are hearing something else.
>Also, in retrospect, although I have no reason to suppose I won't be able
>to exchange the keyboard for a fully working one, it might have been easier
>if I'd bought locally rather than mail-order! Perhaps mail-order isn't
>well suited to big bulky items with lots of mechanical bits that may go
>wrong (i.e. keyboards).
This is my take as well. But still, if there is an authorized Fatar
repair center in your area, they'll presumably still do warranty work
even if you didn't buy it from them.
Bob Cardone
I believe someone overheard him mumbling about a " new paint job" for
it . <g>
Bob Cardone
Bob Cardone
>Bob Cardone <cardone!@!mindspring.com> wrote:
>> Adam Levin <levins...@westnet.com> wrote:
>>>To the chap who mentioned "synth" keyboards, I don't quite know to
>>>what he's referring. Fatar makes synth action keyboards, yeah, but
>>>they also make weighted, piano action keyboards like the one in the
>>>QS8 (and many other synths, like Ensoniq and Kurzweil).
>
>> The Fatar action may have "weights" in it, but it is still a synth
>> type keyboard. The Roland has a "hammer action" type keyboard. Two
>> different animals. It has been my personal experience that under
>> professional use and hard playing, the Fatar actions do not seem to
>> hold up well at all. The Roland action , on the other hand, seems to
>> be indestructible.
>
>Not so -- the Fatar is indeed a "hammer action" keyboard, though as I
>said they make other types of actions as well.
>
>The Fatar action used in the Alesis QS8 is weighted, hammer action.
>
>All the best,
>-Adam
OK
I stand corrected. I guess I haven't seen any of their hammer actions
yet. I know many pro level keyboardists and not to many of them speak
well of the Fatar actions. They all seem to like the feel of the
Roland Hammer setup. I myself have never played a Fatar that I liked,
but I may not have tried a " Hammer type Fatar".
Bob Cardone
Greg Sullivan
controllers is indeed similar to Rolands:
http://www.pearsonmusic.com/hammer_a.htm
Martin A. Totusek
thats uses a Fatar Keyboard. The Fatar Italian plastic Keys often break
inside (the technician I use says that's part of what gets him regular
work all the time).
I'd suggest trying out the YAMAHA P-200's action for contrast.
Bob Cardone
Have they done anything to keep the Fatar action from "falling apart"
as the keyboard ages? Fatar actions are the only keyboard that I have
had mechanical problems with and I have been playing electronic
keyboards of one sort or another since 1960
Bob Cardone.
mudflat muse
problem with several keys, purchased on the net and shipped via ups. I
returned it immediately, and bought a Roland RD600 instead, which I am
much happier with and feel is worth the extra money. I was much
impressed with the superior sound and overall quality. My only concern
is that though the action is less "clunky" than that of the Fatar, it
doesn't seem quite as smooth and regulated as an identical RD600 I
demoed in a music store, so maybe there are differences with individual
keyboards of the same model.
Greg Sullivan
thanks for sharing your experience.
Just to go off on a tangent - are there any Yamaha
controllers that are similar to the Roland A90 or high end
Fatars? (seems to me there aren't, which is a bit
strange. I know about the KX88, but that thing
is OLD!!)
Greg.
Bob Cardone wrote in message <3677971e....@news.mindspring.com>...
Roy Starkey
action?
Greg Sullivan wrote in message <75av7a$o...@usenet.pa.dec.com>...
>...
>Just to go off on a tangent - are there any Yamaha
>controllers that are similar to the Roland A90 or high end
>Fatars? (seems to me there aren't, which is a bit
>strange. I know about the KX88, but that thing
>is OLD!!)
>...
Bob Cardone
They are supposed to have the same action
Bob Cardone