Opinions on Pischna exercises
Jonas
articulation of the 4th finger!! I've
experimented with the Josefy
thirds, Brahms' Exercises ( #s 30,
7, 8, 15, 23, 25), and a simple
Beringer exercise, as well as
scales and arpeggios.
So far, the benefits are not as
great as expected. I'm
wondering if anyone has used
the Pischna exercises with any
great benefit. Does
"independence of the fingers"
mean that the fourth finger will
drop as easily as the others?
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Before you buy.
Tjako van Schie
Jonas <jona...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:81btr8$7t6$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
| Does "independence of the fingers" mean that the fourth finger will
| drop as easily as the others?
That's physical quite impossible... Some muscles of the 4th are connected to
some of the 3rd and 5th. If you move the 4th there always will be a tendency
for the adjacent 3rd finger to move too. If e.g. you play 3,4,5 the 5 will
tend to rise along with the 4, and when you play 5,4,3 the 3 will move
along. This is not a problem, au contraire: it helps to play evenly in
scales, chords and passages.
Trying to move ONLY the 4th is of no benefit at all. It probably results in
a very unnatural way of playing and probably also may cause injuries.
It is better to try to play with relaxation before and after all
'keystrokes' with all fingers. Instead of focusing on indepenace, try to
focus on coöperation of all fingers.
regards,
--
Tjako van Schie, Dutch pianist & teacher at the Amsterdam Conservatory
tjakov...@castel.nl
http://users.castel.nl/~schic02 (the Tjako van Schie - pianist - homepages)
Win a free cd in my little quiz! Visit
http://users.castel.nl/~schic02/quiz.htm for more info.
mas...@ix.netcom.com
>
>Jonas <jona...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>news:81btr8$7t6$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>| Does "independence of the fingers" mean that the fourth finger will
>| drop as easily as the others?
>
>That's physical quite impossible... Some muscles of the 4th are connected to
>some of the 3rd and 5th. If you move the 4th there always will be a tendency
>for the adjacent 3rd finger to move too. If e.g. you play 3,4,5 the 5 will
>tend to rise along with the 4, and when you play 5,4,3 the 3 will move
>along. This is not a problem, au contraire: it helps to play evenly in
>scales, chords and passages.
>Trying to move ONLY the 4th is of no benefit at all. It probably results in
>a very unnatural way of playing and probably also may cause injuries.
>It is better to try to play with relaxation before and after all
>'keystrokes' with all fingers. Instead of focusing on indepenace, try to
>focus on coöperation of all fingers.
>
I'm an amateur hobby player who learned as a child, then
more or less abandoned the piano. I'm a lousy player but
enjoy sight-reading anything, including Beethoven sonatas.
That said loudly, I find my 4th and all fingers of my right hand
to be independent. I can set them here on the table and tap
with any one without no motion of others. The left hand is
not quite so independent -- there is only a slight tendency of
the third to lift when tapping the fourth, and the fifth wiggles
a little. (the test is best made with all the fingers off the table)
I suspect this is very much a difference between individuals.
Mason oh: I'm 78 and getting back to playing
Ivan Vegvary
injury-o.k. now) explained to me that the last three fingers are kind of
tied together. When I showed him that I can "give him the finger" with the
fourth (either hand) without my thumb holding back the rest of my fisted
fingers, he said that was impossible. So I let him have it again. Never
worked on it.
I did have a piano teacher (cocktail piano, Chicago style) that could raise
his fourth finger only, way above the back of his hand, when his hands were
in the 12345 normal hand position on the keys. Hey, even my other fingers
only raise up to a maximum position of being horizontally in line with the
back of my hand. He told me he worked on it for years. He never did tell
me what the benefit was.
Ivan
Tjako van Schie <tjakov...@castel.nl> wrote in message
news:81c00l$gls$1...@news.castel.nl...
>
> Jonas <jona...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:81btr8$7t6$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> | Does "independence of the fingers" mean that the fourth finger will
> | drop as easily as the others?
>
> That's physical quite impossible... Some muscles of the 4th are connected
to
> some of the 3rd and 5th. If you move the 4th there always will be a
tendency
> for the adjacent 3rd finger to move too. If e.g. you play 3,4,5 the 5 will
> tend to rise along with the 4, and when you play 5,4,3 the 3 will move
> along. This is not a problem, au contraire: it helps to play evenly in
> scales, chords and passages.
> Trying to move ONLY the 4th is of no benefit at all. It probably results
in
> a very unnatural way of playing and probably also may cause injuries.
> It is better to try to play with relaxation before and after all
> 'keystrokes' with all fingers. Instead of focusing on indepenace, try to
> focus on coöperation of all fingers.
>
Tom Shaw
Hold all the fingers in one hand together including the thumb in the
plane of the palm. Then separate the thumb sideways without moving any
other digit, return to all digits together and then separate the thumb
and the index finger together from the others and then return to all
digits together, then separate the thumb, index finger and middle finger
together from the others and then return to all digits together, and so
on till finally you separate all the fingers from the little finger and
back. All this is done whilst holding all fingers which are not being
separated together...and you should have complete control of the time
you keep a given separation. When you could do this you then placed
both hands together palms facing and touching and repeat the exercise.
At the time it seemed hard to do but after practicing very sporadically
over a period of years I could do it and still can. Occasionally I ask
friends if they can do it...most cant and have never heard of it. This
had nothing to do with music except that I thought later that it might
be helpful to improve the independence of fingers for the guitar. In
any case I do not see where any connection between my fingers interferes
with playing the piano...but perhaps I am so slow that the question
never comes up.
TS
Ryan Linderman
mas...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> On Mon, 22 Nov 1999 18:57:30 +0100, "Tjako van Schie" <tjakov...@castel.nl> wrote:
>
> >
> >Jonas <jona...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> >news:81btr8$7t6$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> >| Does "independence of the fingers" mean that the fourth finger will
> >| drop as easily as the others?
> >
> >That's physical quite impossible... Some muscles of the 4th are connected to
> >some of the 3rd and 5th. If you move the 4th there always will be a tendency
> >for the adjacent 3rd finger to move too. If e.g. you play 3,4,5 the 5 will
> >tend to rise along with the 4, and when you play 5,4,3 the 3 will move
> >along. This is not a problem, au contraire: it helps to play evenly in
> >scales, chords and passages.
> >Trying to move ONLY the 4th is of no benefit at all. It probably results in
> >a very unnatural way of playing and probably also may cause injuries.
> >It is better to try to play with relaxation before and after all
> >'keystrokes' with all fingers. Instead of focusing on indepenace, try to
> >focus on coöperation of all fingers.
> >
>
> I'm an amateur hobby player who learned as a child, then
> more or less abandoned the piano. I'm a lousy player but
> enjoy sight-reading anything, including Beethoven sonatas.
>
> That said loudly, I find my 4th and all fingers of my right hand
> to be independent. I can set them here on the table and tap
> with any one without no motion of others.
Try it without setting your fingers on the table top, that is hold them
a
centimeter from the table top and drop each one. You may notice that
your
5th finger moves slightly when you drop your 4th finger. However,
whether it
does or not, the fact remains that for all individuals the muscles and
tendons
of the 4th and 5th fingers are connected.
Richard Prokop
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Ivan Vegvary wrote:
It seems like it varies with the individual. My hand surgeon (job
injury-o.k. now) explained to me that the last three fingers are kind of
tied together. When I showed him that I can "give him the finger" with the
fourth (either hand) without my thumb holding back the rest of my fisted
fingers, he said that was impossible. So I let him have it again. Never
worked on it.
I did have a piano teacher (cocktail piano, Chicago style) that could raise
his fourth finger only, way above the back of his hand, when his hands were
in the 12345 normal hand position on the keys. Hey, even my other fingers
only raise up to a maximum position of being horizontally in line with the
back of my hand. He told me he worked on it for years. He never did tell
me what the benefit was.
Ivan
Tjako van Schie <tjakov...@castel.nl> wrote in message
news:81c00l$gls$1...@news.castel.nl...
>
> Jonas <jona...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:81btr8$7t6$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> | Does "independence of the fingers" mean that the fourth finger will
> | drop as easily as the others?
>
> That's physical quite impossible... Some muscles of the 4th are connected
to
> some of the 3rd and 5th. If you move the 4th there always will be a
tendency
> for the adjacent 3rd finger to move too. If e.g. you play 3,4,5 the 5 will
> tend to rise along with the 4, and when you play 5,4,3 the 3 will move
> along. This is not a problem, au contraire: it helps to play evenly in
> scales, chords and passages.
> Trying to move ONLY the 4th is of no benefit at all. It probably results
in
> a very unnatural way of playing and probably also may cause injuries.
> It is better to try to play with relaxation before and after all
> 'keystrokes' with all fingers. Instead of focusing on indepenace, try to
> focus on coöperation of all fingers.
>
Berny Oude Kempers
Richard Prokop wrote in message <384037DD...@bigfoot.com>...