Let the cheap pianos die!
wa...@ari.net
and the sooner, the better.
The quality acoustic piano will never die (never, being within my lifetime). The quality instrument will remain, not because it will always be a superior musical instrument, but
because it is a symbol of great significance: it represents sucess and refinement, art, and aesthetic values for which man will always strive. The quality acoustic piano will
survive, at least for the next blink of the eye, because of the image. Steinway, Coca Cola, Kleenex, 20th century icons. Portraits are still painted..... good pianos will
always be played.
Dodd Attisani
nothing to musicians except convenience (ie portability, easy volume
control). The mere fact that they are electric makes them inferior. How
can you compare the sound of real strings and wood to that of an
electronic facsimile? I'd rather play a crummy upright than the best
digital piano.
Philip Delaquess
(Dodd Attisani) writes:
> I'd rather play a crummy upright than the best
> digital piano.
I'd rather play on my smooth, even, predictable Fatar keyboard than on
the worn-down, out-of-regulation, unpredictable keyboard on my crummy
upright. Sure, my crummy upright sounds more "real", but as a student
trying to learn some technique, I need a reliable touch much worse than
I need realistic sound.
--
Philip Delaquess | "I hate to tell you what they | GCS/MU d+ s+++:- a34
Software Development | call my son in Harlem!" | C++ E++ W+ N++ w--
Genetics Computer Group | | M++ V PS++ PE-- tv-
dela...@gcg.com | -Iocasta | b++ e++ h---- r+++
Thomas D. Seay
(Philip Delaquess) wrote:
> In article <4crvne$1t...@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com> TZX...@prodigy.com
> (Dodd Attisani) writes:
>
> > I'd rather play a crummy upright than the best
> > digital piano.
>
> I'd rather play on my smooth, even, predictable Fatar keyboard than on
> the worn-down, out-of-regulation, unpredictable keyboard on my crummy
> upright. Sure, my crummy upright sounds more "real", but as a student
> trying to learn some technique, I need a reliable touch much worse than
> I need realistic sound.
>
With all due respect, why not hire a technician to work on your worn-down,
out-of-regulation, unpredictable, crummy upright so it零 not worn-down,
out-of-regulation, unpredictable, or crummy any more?
Regards,
--
Thomas D. Seay
The University of Texas at Austin
wa...@ari.net
> I vehemently disagree with you. In my opinion, digital pianos offer
> nothing to musicians except convenience (ie portability, easy volume
> control). The mere fact that they are electric makes them inferior. How
> can you compare the sound of real strings and wood to that of an
> digital piano.
>
>
>>>>
You misread my post. I stated that someday, and probably someday soon, digitals
will match acoustics. I own a very good digital, as well as a Steinway "B". Believe
me, the digital has a long way to go.
Believe me also when I say that sooner or later the digital will get there. But, even
when the digital matches the acoustic, it will not replace it right away, because the
fine acoustic piano is such a powerful cultural and emotional symbol.
Your reference to "real strings and wood" is strong evidence of the emotional hold
the piano has on us. My point is that, on that dark day when a digital finally matches
the very best acoustic, the only thing that will keep the acoustic around is such emotion.
Pdmart
>Your reference to "real strings and wood" is strong evidence of the
emotional
>hold
>the piano has on us. My point is that, on that dark day when a digital
>finally matches
>the very best acoustic, the only thing that will keep the acoustic around
is
>such emotion.
Maybe, but the point is only that we do and appreciate many things we do
based upon plenty of practical and emotional things. To many people, the
"sound" of the piano playing experience (ok, and the keyboard feel as
well) is only part of the total experience. Knowing how the sound is
created (wood, felt, steel, etc) is a legitimate aspect of the experience.
Heck, I still write with a fountain pen sometimes, read real paper books
instead of their electronic versions, etc......
Peter
Philip Delaquess
> > I'd rather play on my smooth, even, predictable Fatar keyboard than on
> > the worn-down, out-of-regulation, unpredictable keyboard on my crummy
> > upright. Sure, my crummy upright sounds more "real", but as a student
> > trying to learn some technique, I need a reliable touch much worse than
> > I need realistic sound.
> >
>
Then Thomas D. Seay replied:
> With all due respect, why not hire a technician to work on your worn-down,
> out-of-regulation, unpredictable, crummy upright so it's not worn-down,
> out-of-regulation, unpredictable, or crummy any more?
Good question. I argued with myself at length last month, after
receiving a bonus from my employers, over whether to get my acoustic
serviced or buy a MicroPiano. The MicroPiano won because A) I lead a
headphones-after-the-kids-crash lifestyle, and B) "my" upright actually
belongs to a friend of my wife, who could theoretically take it away
at any time.
It's an old Kimball "Consolette". I don't think it would be superior
to my Fatar/MicroPiano combo even after an expensive rehab job. But
maybe someday....
NICKK3
>digital piano.
I wouldn't! - I trust you have tried both as I have .. before you wrote
this... right? .... be honest!
Nick
Jason Dyer
There are modern compositions that would be impossible with an acoustic
piano (plucking the strings, odd pedal effects, items stuck in the piano,
etc.)
--
Jason Dyer - jd...@indirect.com
Pete Zakel
>digital piano.
I think you are going a little far, there.
The best digitals are quite good when compared to a crummy upright, but I
would rather play a mediocre upright (or even a fair spinet) over most digital
pianos.
Note that I do own a digital (a Roland HP-4500, if I remember correctly, with
sprung, not weighted, keys -- if I'd only waited a year I could have had
weighted keys for a similar price... sigh...). I use the digital for gigs
where either an acoustic piano is not available, or the acoustic is in such
poor shape (or tuning) that it isn't worth using.
I would never use a digital for a serious piano concert, though, unless it
was music composed specifically for a digital piano.
-Pete Zakel
(p...@cadence.com or ..!uunet!cadence!phz)
"All programmers are optimists. Perhaps this modern sorcery especially
attracts those who believe in happy endings and fairy godmothers. Perhaps
the hundreds of nitty frustrations drive away all but those who habitually
focus on the end goal. Perhaps it is merely that computers are young,
programmers are younger, and the young are always optimists. But however
the selection process works, the result is indisputable: `This time it will
surely run,' or `I just found the last bug.'"
-Frederick Brooks, Jr., The Mythical Man Month
wa...@ari.net
on an acoustic - just don't ask me to listen.
Dodd Attisani
I've tried dozens of digitals, but they just don't do anything for me.
The botton line is that it's a sound coming from a speaker, and a crummy
sound at that. I feel absolutely no connection with the sound that's
being produced. Frankly, I really wish that I liked the digitals better.
I wouldn't have to bother the neighbors, I could move into a better
neighborhood because I wouldn't require so much space, I'd save money,
etc.
Dodd
Paul Harts
Hi the Belgian consumer organization has performed a relatively big test
on baby grands, piano's and the digital version of the piano's. Since most
of you don't read Dutch, I will give a summary and translation. Especially
because the test put me on the hold again for buying a baby grand.
General personal conclusion for this group: If you look at the differences
one brand scores, it is easy to understand why talking about brands
without specifying the type makes little sense.
How it was done.
Listening:
A team of about 20 persons, with a lot of professional artist, listened to
the piano's without being able to see on what type of piano's was played.
General conclusion, A grand is to be preferred above a piano, although
some piano's come close.
But do remember: you were not one of the listeners, and chosing a piano is
a very personal matter. Therefore, although the test results are not that
good, personally I still prefer the Petrofs, because of their deep and
warm sound.
Playing test:
30 pianists, all professional, played on each piano for one day. Items to
be scored where:
How do the keys feel, is the piano constant in sound and in touch, are the
pedals pleasant to use, is repetition ok and fast, is pianissimo easy to
play, same for fortissimo and all in between.
Technical quality,
Was done in the lab (with not that much help of tuners it appears) where
investigations have been made on the quality of the strings, needed force
for the keys, the duration of the sound, the timbre, etc. These were lab
tests, so they all boiled down to hard facts, no opinions regarding the
quality of the craftsmanship have been made.
Now the results:
Since I know that displaying tables is dangerous with all diferent Usenet
reading software around, all marks are separated with comma's instead of
tabularies,
The table scores are:
price in Guilders (1 dollar is 1,60 Dutch Guilders, 1 Dutch guilder is
0,625 dollar), listening test, play test, technical quality
So if you read:
Young Chang G185, 20.000, +, +/++, f/+
this should be interpreted as
The Young Chang G185 costs 20.000 Dutch Guilders, scores good for the
listening test, good/very good on the paying test, and fair/good on the
technical quality test.
Baby grands:
Young Chang G185, 20.000, +, +/++, f/+
Hyundai G84, 21.000, +, +/++, f/+
Petrof III/3A, 23.500, +, +, f/+
Young Chang and Huyndai are 1.85 meter, Petrof is 1.92.
The Young Chang is said to be identical with Astor G86,
Hyundai is said to be identical with Samick SG 185
Piano's:
Hyundai U835, 8300, f/+, +, f
Young Chang E121, 8800, +, +, f/+
Hyundai U 837, 9500, +,+, f
Petrof P131, 11.000, +,+,f/+
Kawai CS 40, 14.000, +,+,f/+
Yamaha, U3S, 15.000, +, +, f
Petrof P115, 7900, f,+,-/f
Yamaha, E108PE, 8100, f/+, f, f
Kawai CXS, 8000, f/+, f, -/f
The Hyundai U835 is said to be identical with Gebr. Schulze GS121
The Young Chang E121 is said to be identical with Astor P20,
The Hyundai U837 is said to be identical with Samick SU 131
The Yamaha E 108PE is said to be identical with Eterna ER10
Digital piano's,
Yamaha CLP155, 7200, -, f, -/f
Technics SXPX203, 5500, --, -, f
Technics SXPX205, 7700, -, -, f
Conclusion of the panel: digital piano's are no match at all for the real
stuff. (Don't flame me, I own one!), Interesting since this are cheap
piano's. The cheap piano just doesn't want to die.
Regards,
Paul.
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