Tipping piano movers
KellyHW
I am about to have a recently-purchased used grand piano moved to my home.
When the movers deliver the piano, should I tip them? Thanks for your
thoughts...
-Kelly
wa...@ari.net
Allow me to play Miss Manners:
Piano movers are usually well paid professionals. You would not tip your
dentist or mailman. A tip is not normally in order for piano movers.
On the other hand, if they are asked to perform some extraordinary service, or
if they voluntarily perform some service above and beyond what is
contracted, a small reward might be justified. Such services might include:
waiting around while you take a very long time to make up your mind, moving
lots of your furniture to make a place for the piano, placing the piano a second
or even a third time after you have changed your mind about where you want
it, posing for an excessive number of photographs, dealing with unfriendly
dogs or children.
Large numbers of steps, narrow hallways, tight corners, etc., are NOT the
basis for a tip. Movers expect these things, and YOU will be charged
accordingly. If the movers are employed by the company from which you
purchased the piano, and if the moving is part of the deal, never fear. YOU
will still be charged accordingly.
Movers may also earn negative tips by doing such things as: blocking your
driveway while having lunch in their truck, lighting up a cigarette in your home,
borrowing your phone to make unauthorized long distance calls, and losing
parts of your piano.
Good luck with your new piano - Frank Weston
Les Smith
KellyHW (kel...@aol.com) wrote:
: I am about to have a recently-purchased used grand piano moved to my home.
: When the movers deliver the piano, should I tip them? Thanks for your
: thoughts...
: -Kelly
Hi, Kelly. To tip, or not to tip, that is the question, eh? Actually
the answer is something like your decision to tip at a restaurant. In
other words, if the movers do a good job, ie. they're on time, courteous,
polite and don't damage either the piano or your furnishings in the
process, I am sure that they would appreciate even a small tip, say a
couple of dollars a man, or so. If you're really impressed with their
professionlism and they go out of their way to make sure that the piano
is positioned exactly to your liking and that everything is working
properly, you could go as high as say $5 a man. How can you tell a
good moving job? Since you're having a grand piano moved, and in the
process the legs and lyre have to be renoved and the piano turned on
it's side, after the piano has been set up, but BEFORE the movers leave,
check the following: First put your hand on the case and try to wiggle
the piano on it's legs. There should be minimal movement at best, exces-
sive movement indicates a bad or loose leg. Similarly, check to make
sure that the pedal lyre is fastened on securely and that all the pedals
are in good working order. Also check to make sure that the fallboard
opens and closes without any problem and that ALL the keys and dampers
are working as they should. Actually, good movers will check these things
automatically themselves. If they don't, make sure that you do! If you
find that you have to bring a problem to their attention, forget about
the tip. However, if you find everything in good working order and the
move goes smoothly, slipping them a small tip-- in cash-- would seem to
be in order. Also, you might want to have the same people move again for
you some other time. Believe me, movers remember those that show their
appreciation for a job well-done with even a small cash stipend ( and a
cold drink on a really hot day is usually appreciated, too!)
Les Smith
less...@buffnet.net
ScttPKssr
I have moved about one hundred pianos in my life and generally I would say
that less than 10% of people tip for piano moving. I guess that if you
feel that someone went out of their way to do a careful job, it would be
nice gesture! I know that I always appreciated and few extra bucks I felt
that it was a low paying job when you consider all the money that I spent
at the Chiropractor!!!!! ScottPK
Gil G Silberman
In article <4vv6gm$e...@buffnet2.buffnet.net>,
Les Smith <less...@buffnet.net> wrote:
>If you're really impressed with their
>professionlism and they go out of their way to make sure that the piano
>is positioned exactly to your liking and that everything is working
>properly, you could go as high as say $5 a man.
>( and a
>cold drink on a really hot day is usually appreciated, too!)
Interesting. See, with most of the people who might come to my house,
say a carpenter, an appliance repairman, a plumber, a gardener, what
have you, bringing out the six-pack of beer at the end of the day is
a sure way to make them feel appreciated and for you to be friendly.
Only, it wouldn't seem quite so appropriate. . . And these days, with
all the alcohol awareness, perhaps some iced tea would be more
sensitive.
On the other hand, an acquaintance of mine had a new technician
come out. He liked their piano so much he gave it two or three
tunings instead of just one, to get it right, so he was there
pretty much all day. They got into a good discussion of his
old druggie / hippie days and acid trips, why he went into the
piano business, and so on. And by the end of the day they were
sharing bong hits. Not that I would recommend this. . .
jimg...@interserv.com
And I bet the piano sounded great!
Lesmore488
1.) I agree with the fellow who has moved 100 pianos. I move about 175 to
225 pianos per year and I would agree that less than 10% of my customers
tip.
2.) I certainly DO apprieciate and remember tips. I am a piano tech/
rebuilder/tuner who happens to be physically capable of moving pianos . I
started out just moving pianos that I sold , out of fear of having anyone
else move such a high quality instrument that I had just spent months
restoring. After 15 yrs , my business has evolved as such that my moving
service accounts for about 1/3 of revenues. I am always very curtious and
go out of my way to make certain that the customer is happy with the
pianos placement, etc. I also generate much tuning business thru my
moves. When offered a tip, I kindly accept (naturally),
but given the fee I am charging, I certainly don't expect a tip!
3.) I must defend Lessmith from the jewish lawyers' (wannabe) typical
jump to the conclusion that Les was refering to alcohal in his post.
Shame on you. There is no reference or implication to alcohal in Mr.
Smiths post.
4.) Lastly I must say that Lessmiths advice is the most irresponsible,
idiotic, down right stupid advice that he has ever given. It is NOT a
good idea to shake the piano after it is set up to see if the mover has
done a good job of installing the legs. First of all, if the mover has
not installed the legs correctly you do not want to find this out by
having 500-1,500 lbs. of piano fall on your floor. Secondly, having moved
many used grand pianos, I can tell you that there are several different
ways in which the leg is designed to fit to the piano. Some are well
designed such as Steinways cast plate with a locking toggle.(No screw
driver needed!) Others are held on with just alignment dowels and wood
screws, and others are held on only with screws. Used pianos can often be
70-100 yrs. old or more and the leg fitting can be questionable at best.
People who buy a used piano have NO IDEA what to look for as far a leg
support is concerned. I have moved many, many pianos for people who have
unwittingly bought one that has unsafe support. In these cases I always
tell and show the buyer the problem with the legs and make it very clear
that I feel that it is unsafe to set up and will take no responsibility
for any mishap. ( I should probably have a written disclaimer, eh Gil?).
It is extremely irresponsible to suggest shaking the piano and even worse
to then assume that it is the movers fault if the piano wiggles
excessively.
Les, I hope your willing to take responsability for all those old pieces
of crap that are about to fall. I hope there aren't any kids under them.
If so, call Gil.
P.S. go ahead and flameif you want but you know I'm right.
Steven Abrams
b...@uclink.berkeley.edu (Gil G Silberman) writes:
> On the other hand, an acquaintance of mine had a new technician
> come out. He liked their piano so much he gave it two or three
> tunings instead of just one, to get it right, so he was there
> pretty much all day. They got into a good discussion of his
> old druggie / hippie days and acid trips, why he went into the
> piano business, and so on. And by the end of the day they were
> sharing bong hits. Not that I would recommend this. . .
This is better done with movers only after they have positioned your
piano undamaged.
If possible, have them move the truck out of your driveway first,
too, unless you don't care about your shrubs or mailbox.
Hope this helps.
~~~Steve
--
Steven Abrams abr...@cs.columbia.edu
Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see.
-Lennon/McCartney
Steven Abrams
lesmo...@aol.com (Lesmore488) writes:
> 3.) I must defend Lessmith from the jewish lawyers' (wannabe) typical
> jump to the conclusion that Les was refering to alcohal in his post.
> Shame on you. There is no reference or implication to alcohal in Mr.
> Smiths post.
What's the point of the "Jewish Lawyer" comment, eh? Just what the
world needs: More bigotry. You anti-semetic bastard.
> 4.) Lastly I must say that Lessmiths advice is the most irresponsible,
> idiotic, down right stupid advice that he has ever given. It is NOT a
> good idea to shake the piano after it is set up to see if the mover has
> done a good job of installing the legs.
I didn't take his suggestion to be SHAKE, but wiggle. See if the leg
wiggles.
> P.S. go ahead and flameif you want but you know I'm right.
What a shock. An *ARROGANT* bigot, too.
Les Smith
Steven Abrams (abr...@mahi.cs.columbia.edu) wrote:
First of all I was, of course, referring to non-alcoholic drinks such
a lemonade or pop, or even a glass of ice-water. With regards to "wig-
gling" a just-moved grand piano to determine that all it's legs are
secure, I had a call earlier this year from a distraught owner whose
recently-moved grand piano collapsed, shattering a leg that had to then
be replaced. In older instruments, in particular, it's not at all un-
common for the leg screws and/or plates to loosen or strip out with time.
I have been called in numerous times over the years to tune grands that
were so unsteady on their legs that I was unable to tune them until the
necessary repairs had been made. Several years ago I was called in for
a lyre repair on a grand and when I got under the piano I found the
rear leg sitting at about a 30 degree angle because both leg screws
were missing. Had I not noticed the leg and just started working on the
lyre, the entire piano might have collapsed upon me and I might not be
here today writing this post. Lastly, about a year ago, I was in a
dealer's show-room where a new Samick grand had recently been set up
by his movers. As we were talking all three legs gave way and the instru-
ment crashed to the floor. When we went to investigate we found out that
NONE of the leg bolts had been installed by the movers! They forgot.
All a person has to see is one grand piano that has collapsed because
of it's legs not being properly fastened down and they will for ever
after check to make sure that they are indeed fastened securely each
time the piano is moved.
Les Smith
less...@buffnet.net
jimg...@interserv.com
maybe less more should get under the piano and let Mr. Les " wiggle" to begin with and slowly
work up to a full SHAKE!
Gil G Silberman
Boys, I'm staying out of this one. I just want to point out a few things.
First, I did not interpret Les Smith's mention of "a cold drink" to
imply anything about whether the drink was alcoholic or not, and I don't
see anything so wrong with offering someone a beer that it matters much
either way. I was just rambling, as you should be able to tell from
my discussion of the merits of offering marijuana to piano tuners after
they have finished their job.
Whether a disclaimer is of any legal force, whether it needs to be
in writing, and what it has to look like is a matter that probably varies
from state to state. If you must, I would crib some language from a
moving company's disclaimer form. My vote is to put it in writing,
so long as you can do that without creating endless paperwork or
vexing the customers. In the absence of something to the contrary
in the moving contract (and any oral side-agreements you make), I am
sure that courts do have a standard of who should pay. And believe
me, it could end up in small claims court. If a grand piano
crashes to the floor, there will be damage, and there will probably
be a dispute over whose fault it is. Clearly, if the mover didn't
attach the legs in properly, the mover is probably going to pay for
the damage. But also, if the legs were defective to begin with
and the move made it worse, or if the mover knew or should have
noticed the defective legs, but failed to mention the problem to
the customer, the mover might also be in trouble.
Finally, I have no intention of being a tort lawyer. But if you
do manage to maim a little baby in the process of moving a piano, I
have no doubt that you will soon be introduced to some of my
colleagues, who will take personal pleasure in making you regret
the day you took up piano moving, and rightfully so. You do have
insurance, do you not?
Larry Craven
On 30 Aug 1996 01:21:03 GMT, less...@buffnet.net (Les Smith) wrote:
[parts of post deleted]
>Lastly, about a year ago, I was in a
>dealer's show-room where a new Samick grand had recently been set up
>by his movers. As we were talking all three legs gave way and the instru-
>ment crashed to the floor. When we went to investigate we found out that
>NONE of the leg bolts had been installed by the movers! They forgot.
>All a person has to see is one grand piano that has collapsed because
>of it's legs not being properly fastened down and they will for ever
>after check to make sure that they are indeed fastened securely each
>time the piano is moved.
Samick, huh? This would have really been bad if it had been a *real*
piano. (Sorry, but I just couldn't resist!)
But I definitely agree about checking to make sure grand legs are
properly supporting the instrument. If it comes to that, its better
to have a piano crash to the floor than have it fall on somebody; but
a little "wiggling" certainly shouldn't cause anything so dramatic
unless there's a serious balance problem.
I believe I'm safe in saying that more grand collapses occur when they
are carelessly being shoved around to move them within a room or on a
stage. Trying to move a grand on carpet, especially, without lifting
it off the floor can sometimes damage an otherwise sturdy leg
connection and cause collapse of the piano.
Larry
Lesmore488
I refered to someone who is a lawyer and happens to be jewish, as a
"jewish lawyer". This makes me anti-semetic?! Wow! I doubt Mr.
Silberman was offended but if so, I apologize to him. As for Mr. Abrahms,
I think you are being a tad bit over sensitive.
You are welcome to refer to me as a Black, Afro- American, or Budhist
piano tuner if you'd like.
-Chen,J.L.
In article <505flv$i...@buffnet2.buffnet.net>,
Les Smith <less...@buffnet.net> wrote:
>[... other stuff deleted] Lastly, about a year ago, I was in a
>dealer's show-room where a new Samick grand had recently been set up
>by his movers. As we were talking all three legs gave way and the instru-
>ment crashed to the floor. When we went to investigate we found out that
>NONE of the leg bolts had been installed by the movers! They forgot.
>All a person has to see is one grand piano that has collapsed because
>of it's legs not being properly fastened down and they will for ever
>after check to make sure that they are indeed fastened securely each
>time the piano is moved.
>
Does all grand painos use screws or bolts to secure
their legs? Because when the movers set up my grand, I believe they used
wood shims to secure the legs. BTW, my piano is a Steinway grand if that
makes any differnce.
Julian
A440A
Julian,
Some Steinway grands use a cam on a pivot to lock the plates in place,
some use wedges. Take care that you don't find them putting small wedges
between the cams and the legs. This condition usually denotes excessive
wear, or the wrong leg in place.
Also, the wedges are tapered, it is important that they are fitted
properly, ( it is possible to install them upside down, movers are at
times capable of anything!!)
Regards,
Ed Foote
Precision Piano Works
Nashville, Tenn.
Gil G Silberman
In article <5075kk$6...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
Lesmore488 <lesmo...@aol.com> wrote:
>I refered to someone who is a lawyer and happens to be jewish, as a
>"jewish lawyer". This makes me anti-semetic?! Wow! I doubt Mr.
>Silberman was offended but if so, I apologize to him. As for Mr. Abrahms,
>I think you are being a tad bit over sensitive.
Well, if you had nothing but praise for us Jewish lawyers it wouldn't
be so much of an issue. But you were being rather mean-spirited, and
I can see where someone who doesn't know you or me might take this,
out of context, to be a nasty comment about Jews rather than a nasty
comment about lawyers.
The fact is, though, that I described myself as a "Jewish lawyer"
here on the newsgroup a few months back. I started it. So anyone who wants
to call me that is welcome, as far as I am concerned, provided that they
take steps to not offend anyone else. My only request is that before you
bash lawyers too much you pause to consider some of the big contributions
we have made to this country, from securing the vote to declare
independence from England (John Adams was a lawyer, but not jewish of
course) to the civil rights movement (in the early days, an alliance
between black visionaries and hardworking jewish lawyers).
Also, should you ever have to hire your own lawyer, then next time you are
in his or her office, look at them and try to consider whether they are
a decent person or not. Are they capable? Trustworth? Dependable?
Is this the person you want to protect you or your business? If not,
then I suggest you switch lawyers. Not everybody is a schnook.
>You are welcome to refer to me as a Black, Afro- American, or Budhist
>piano tuner if you'd like.
A Budhist piano tuner? Interesting. Is that common?
JD
>On the other hand, an acquaintance of mine had a new technician
>come out. He liked their piano so much he gave it two or three
>tunings instead of just one, to get it right, so he was there
>pretty much all day. They got into a good discussion of his
>old druggie / hippie days and acid trips, why he went into the
>piano business, and so on. And by the end of the day they were
>sharing bong hits. Not that I would recommend this. . .
Hi Gil,
That would explain the fact that he had to tune it 2 or 3 times! I
would venture a guess that the piano would not lose its tune over a 2
hour period :)
DZappa
In article <507qsb$d...@agate.berkeley.edu>, b...@uclink.berkeley.edu (Gil G
Silberman) writes:
>My only request is that before you
>bash lawyers too much you pause to consider some of the big contributions
>we have made to this country, from securing the vote to declare
>independence from England (John Adams was a lawyer, but not jewish of
>course) to the civil rights movement
Ok. Then let us also mention runaway basless litigation that some (and
I'm sure you are not of this ilk Gil) lawyers file knowing full well that
they will prevail only because someone with deep pockets is willing to pay
off rather than lose much more in a fight in court. But this is
Rec.Music.Makers.Piano, not Pro.Law.ambulance chaser, isn't it.
dave
John Tombs
Les Smith wrote:
>
> All a person has to see is one grand piano that has collapsed because
> of it's legs not being properly fastened down and they will for ever
> after check to make sure that they are indeed fastened securely each
> time the piano is moved.
We recently took delivery of a Baldwin baby grand. The movers were careful,
honest, courteous, experienced and expensive.
A nut on one of the leg supports was left finger-tight.
Gil G Silberman
>In article <507qsb$d...@agate.berkeley.edu>, b...@uclink.berkeley.edu (Gil G
>Silberman) writes:
>>My only request is that before you
>>bash lawyers too much you pause to consider some of the big contributions
>>we have made to this country. . .
>Ok. Then let us also mention runaway basless litigation that some (and
>I'm sure you are not of this ilk Gil) lawyers file knowing full well that
>they will prevail only because someone with deep pockets is willing to pay
>off rather than lose much more in a fight in court. But this is
>Rec.Music.Makers.Piano, not Pro.Law.ambulance chaser, isn't it.
Uh, but some of us _do_ have day jobs. Anyway, if you must mention
unscrupulous lawyers as a way to balance out the achievements of some
of our country's great heroes, then I will have to mention Liberace
every time you mention Rubinstein. And there are a lot of bad pianists
out there. . . although I would rather hear a bad pianist than encounter
the work of a bad lawyer, to be sure.
Finally, remember that behind every greedy lawyer is an even greedier
client. Would you actually make this pledge? If somebody rear-ends
my car, I will accept my misfortune and deal personally with the
insurance company, whatever they might try to get away with, and
never succumb to the temptation to get even or make money in a lawsuit.
If so, then you have my blessing: may your keytops stay white and
attached, your soundboards always arched, your customers' debts
paid on time, and your showroom roof eternally free of leaks.
- gil (who is not claiming that he actually has the power to
accomplish these ends)
DZappa
In article <50g2qt$b...@agate.berkeley.edu>, b...@uclink.berkeley.edu (Gil G
Silberman) writes:
How about locusts? can you prevent locusts? :-)
dave
DZappa
> I
>would venture a guess that the piano would not lose its tune over a 2
>hour period :)
Unless you've been doing a bunch of bong hits :-)
dave
Gil G Silberman
>>I would venture a guess that the piano would not lose its tune over a 2
>>hour period :)
>Unless you've been doing a bunch of bong hits :-)
Well, the piano had just been moved, had a fairly new set of strings,
and hadn't been tuned in a year and a half. Plus, as stoned as he
was, the tuner probably would get about halfway through, forget
what he was doing, and have to start over from the beginning. I've
heard that if you are high enough, you can spend an hour just tuning
a single note. [insert smileys here. I would have no idea]
My other explanation, and I will have to ask Les about this one,
is that the cannabis in the smoke somehow interacted with the
strings or the pegs to put the piano out of tune. The piano, as it
were, got a little high too.
jimg...@interserv.com
there is some truth to this but only if it is Korean canibis which is some what rare