Re: Repeated notes: which piano pieces use them??
Radu Focshaner
"fan" <f...@fan.com> wrote in message
news:qearm0d7c69butfg0...@4ax.com...
> Which piano pieces require extensive use of repeated notes?
Moritz Ravel - "Alborada del gracioso" . Recommended listening : Alborada
played by Dinu Lipatti (repeated notes at machine gun rate).
gregpresley
by horowitz and sclenzysca is the one in G major, Longo 209, available in an
International Music Edition edited by Isidor Philipp. (The 6 sonatas in this
book were all recorded by Horowitz).
I just played Alborada del gracioso this weekend and it has plenty of
repeated notes of course. But also the Toccata by Ravel is famous for
repeated notes, and even Scarbo from Gaspard de la Nuit has many passages of
fast repeated notes. Apparently Ravel enjoyed torturing pianists.....
The fingerings I use for repeated notes depend on the speed and the time
divisions. For triplets I usually use 321 if the tempo is fast, for duples
often 21 or 32, or sometimes even 4321. But if the passage is short and the
change of fingers is awkward, and the speed is not impossibly fast, it is
always possible to use one finger and bouncy rapidly.
"Ali Berkok" <ali.b...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:1Llbd.35798$3C6.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> fan wrote:
> > At the Eastman School of Music my teacher, Eugene List, taught me how
> > to play repeated notes, i.e., the same note (key) played a number of
> > times in a row. However, not very many pieces call for repeated notes,
> > which can be a little tricky. A few exceptions are:
> >
> > Liszt - Hungarian Rhapsody #2
> > Debussy - Etude #9
> > Gottschalk - Pasquinade (only on the last page)
> > Scarlatti - Sonata (not sure which one)
> >
> > Which piano pieces require extensive use of repeated notes? (and which
> > Scarlatti sonata requires repeated notes? Horowitz recorded it.)
> >
> > Thanks.
>
> Scarlatti sonata is in D minor. Kk. (kirkpatrick) 141/L. 422.
>
> Got this from the back of Argerich's "Live from the
> Concertgebouw"...wicked recording!!!
Don A. Gilmore
> to play repeated notes, i.e., the same note (key) played a number of
> times in a row. However, not very many pieces call for repeated notes,
> which can be a little tricky. A few exceptions are:
>
> Liszt - Hungarian Rhapsody #2
> Debussy - Etude #9
> Gottschalk - Pasquinade (only on the last page)
> Scarlatti - Sonata (not sure which one)
>
> Which piano pieces require extensive use of repeated notes? (and which
> Scarlatti sonata requires repeated notes? Horowitz recorded it.)
I was assigned a rather obscure piece for this technique when I studied at
the Conservatory. It was called "Rumba Toccata" by Paul Harvey. It is only
an intermediate piece, but gives a pretty intense workout for single note
tremolo. The repeated notes are not only played using multiple fingers of
the same hand, they alternate between both hands (same note) and are played
in a rumba-style syncopation.
Hope this helps!
Don
Kansas City
albert landa
albert landa
"fan" <f...@fan.com> wrote in message
news:qearm0d7c69butfg0...@4ax.com...
> At the Eastman School of Music my teacher, Eugene List, taught me how
> to play repeated notes, i.e., the same note (key) played a number of
> times in a row. However, not very many pieces call for repeated notes,
> which can be a little tricky. A few exceptions are:
>
> Liszt - Hungarian Rhapsody #2
> Debussy - Etude #9
> Gottschalk - Pasquinade (only on the last page)
> Scarlatti - Sonata (not sure which one)
>
> Which piano pieces require extensive use of repeated notes? (and which
> Scarlatti sonata requires repeated notes? Horowitz recorded it.)
>
> Thanks.
Watcher
I haven't played it for years, but Chopin's Grande Valse Brilliante
has a lot of repeated notes, as I recall.....
Tjako van Schie
news:2t5qu6F...@uni-berlin.de...
Yes, Radu! Lovely piece and MARVELLOUS performer. My all time favourite!
Regards,
Tjako van Schie, pianist
http://ww.tjakovanschie.com
Mason A. Clark
>At the Eastman School of Music my teacher, Eugene List, taught me how
>to play repeated notes, i.e., the same note (key) played a number of
>times in a row. However, not very many pieces call for repeated notes,
>which can be a little tricky. A few exceptions are:
>
> Liszt - Hungarian Rhapsody #2
> Debussy - Etude #9
> Gottschalk - Pasquinade (only on the last page)
> Scarlatti - Sonata (not sure which one)
>
>Which piano pieces require extensive use of repeated notes? (and which
>Scarlatti sonata requires repeated notes? Horowitz recorded it.)
>
>Thanks.
For a diversion, play Recuerdos de la Alhambra -- a guitar piece.
Have fun, Mason C
Tjako van Schie
news:I5KL0...@news.online.de...
> "Tjako van Schie" <tj...@sollie-dsl.nl> writes:
>
>>
>> Erlkönig- Schubert.... (famous for its repeating notes)
>> BTW: for fast repeating notes you need what i call a well developed
>> "wrist-vibrato".I usually play these kind of notes with the same finger,
>> and
>> with using the wrist as "motor" for the small and "vibrating" up- and
>> down
>> movement of the hand.
>
> Really? You don't play something like 4-3-2-4-3-2.... ?
Sometimes,as an exception yes i do use that too. The disadvantage of
changing fingers on the same key is the sidewards adaptation the hand must
make, resulting in superfluous motions, and less speed. A good fingering for
repetition also might be 1-2-1-2-1-2-1 or 1-3-1-3-1, because the thumb
opposes the other finger.
Regards,
Tjako van Schie, pianist
Walter Ramsey
> > to play repeated notes, i.e., the same note (key) played a number of
> > times in a row. However, not very many pieces call for repeated notes,
> > which can be a little tricky. A few exceptions are:
> >
> > Liszt - Hungarian Rhapsody #2
> > Debussy - Etude #9
> > Gottschalk - Pasquinade (only on the last page)
> > Scarlatti - Sonata (not sure which one)
> >
> > Which piano pieces require extensive use of repeated notes? (and which
> > Scarlatti sonata requires repeated notes? Horowitz recorded it.)
> >
> > Thanks.
>
I can't believe you left out Ravel - Scarbo and Alborado immediately
come to mind, and I am sure there are other examples. There is a
section in Liszt's Mephisto Waltz with the right hand echoing a left
hand melody, in repeated notes. Schumann's Reconnaissance, from
Carnaval, is another famous example. Although not exactly in the same
vein, Beethoven's Tempest Sonata, in the first movement, has problems
with repeated notes.
David Auker
> to play repeated notes, i.e., the same note (key) played a number of
> times in a row.
What kind of technique(s) were suggested?
-David
Cc88m
too fast for finger repetition, you can still play faster with slower finger
motion by using many fingers. It is a little like playing parallel sets on one
note.
C. C. Chang; more on piano practice at
Richard Hofheimer
La Campenella (repeated octaves and short bursts of repeated 32nds)
Chopin Ballade #2
Liszt Mephisto Waltz #1 (short bursts of 32nds)
Liszt Hungarian Rhapsody #6 (brutal octaves)
Beethoven Appassionata sonata (many repeated 8th note triplets in the left
hand).
Some slow ones for yucks: Chopin Nocturne Db. Op. 27 #2, Joplin's Solace,
Beethoven's Pastoral sonata Op. 28.
My teacher from college also studied with Eugene List. How did he teach the
repeated notes?
rh
Pell Nilly
> At the Eastman School of Music my teacher, Eugene List, taught me how
> to play repeated notes, i.e., the same note (key) played a number of
> which can be a little tricky. A few exceptions are:
>
> Liszt - Hungarian Rhapsody #2
> Debussy - Etude #9
> Gottschalk - Pasquinade (only on the last page)
> Scarlatti - Sonata (not sure which one)
>
> Which piano pieces require extensive use of repeated notes? (and which
> Scarlatti sonata requires repeated notes? Horowitz recorded it.)
>
> Thanks.
'Bout any toccata has repeated notes.
A. Turner
Variations on an Original Theme in C Minor. Drills the right and left
hands equally!
ramse...@hotmail.com (Walter Ramsey) wrote in message news:<19c14b3f.04101...@posting.google.com>...
John Oster
Let's not forget Balakirev's Islamey.
--
To e-mail me, make nets singular
fan
including Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody #6, to which you refer - have you
ever noticed that in the descending part of the extended chromatic run
immediately preceding the last section (the fourth and final section
of the piece, which is the octave section) that Horowitz adds a left
hand part (perhaps so that the listener will know that he is truly
playing the difficult run with only his right hand)?
Eugene List taught repeated notes by pointing out:
1) the key, if it's a white key, should be struck near its front edge,
i.e., the edge of the key that is nearest the pianist.
2) fingers 1 through 4 (or 1 through 3 in the case if triplets) strike
the key in a pulling-toward-the-pianist movement (as opposed to the
usual up-and-down finger movement in scales, arpeggios, and
single-note runs in general). Pull your finger off the key and under
your hand.
2) strike the key with your 4th finger first, as you pull your finger
towards you. It'll slide off the front edge of the key. Pull your
finger off the key and under your hand.
3) strike the key with your 3th finger next, again pulling your finger
towards you. It'll slide off the front edge of the key. Pull your
finger off the key and under your hand, joining your 4th finger still
under your hand.
4) strike the key with your 2th finger next, pulling your finger
towards you. It'll slide off the front edge of the key. Pull your
finger off the key and under your hand, joining your 3rd and 4th
fingers already under your hand.
5) strike the key with your 1st finger (thumb) next, pulling it in a
motion from upper left downward toward lower right. It'll slide off
the front of the key, as it travels downward and to the right. (these
left/right directions apply to the right hand. just reverse them for
the left hand.) When your thumb slides off the key, your 2nd, 3rd,
and 4th fingers will extend forward, ready to repeat steps 2 through
5.
6) repeat steps 2 through 5 as desired/required. If the repeated notes
are sixteenth notes, then steps 2 through 5 constitute a quarter
note's worth of repeated notes.
Playing repeated notes on the black keys uses a similar technique, the
main problem being that the surface area available for striking is
simply a little narrower. Learn the technique first on the white keys,
and then on the black keys.
Practice them like a two-octave-up-and-down C major scale - hand
separately, from middle C up two octaves and then back down with the
right hand, and middle C down two octaves and back up with the left
hand. Four C's, four D's, four E's, etc. At the end of the two octaves
just tack on a C major arpeggio, so after the last 4 middle C's,
strike four E's, four G's, four C's, etc. all the way up to the
highest note (a C) on the keyboard. For the left hand, just add a
similar C major arpeggio from the last middle C downward to the lowest
C.
With a little practice you may well find them easier than previously
thought. And audiences always love the visual effect of them... :)
BTW, to hear Eugene List play repeated notes, listen to his recording
of Gottschalk's Pasquinade (Caprice), Op. 59. I can post it to a
binary mp3 newsgroup if that would help.
One last thing about List's teaching - his big word, used more than
any other to all of his students, was to "Articulate" (verb, not
adjective). Anything less than totally articulate finger-work was just
not acceptable.
Tjako van Schie
i.m.h.o. far better) way to learn repeated notes with changing fingering is
this:
Play 4-3-2-1BUT:
1) Play 4 normally by fast lifting before hitting, then fast throwing down
and immediately lifting it again (i.e.staccatissimo). (on the normal playing
spot on the key, so not necessarily at the edge)
2) Move your hand to the right a little (the movements of the hand should
originate in the wrist, not in the arm, which stays more or less in place)
so that 3rd finger gets over the key you previously played with 4
3) Now play 3 staccatissimo
4) Move your hand to the right a little, so that your 2nd finger gets over
the key
5) Now play 2 staccatissimo
6) Move your hand to the right a little, so that your 21st finger gets over
the key
7) Now play 1 staccatissimo
8) Move your hand LEFT so that 4 is over the key again and repeat from 1)
The staccatissimo can be played either by (preferably) very fast lifting of
the finger (finger staccato, for the fastest and lightest sound) OR by
lifting of the hand from the wrist (wrist-staccato, for more sound with a
little less speed) OR by lifting of the underarm (Arm-staccato, for robust
sound with even slower speeds)
The key word here is *fast* lifting, because the key action needs to be used
immediately again everytime.
The advantage of this method is: superior control over speed and loudness,
and more freedom in the "playing apparatus".
Advantage 2: The hand motions prevent us from getting "stuck" or 'frozen'.
The disadvantage: you need a little bit more time to cultivate this
technique in the beginning, as the movements involved should be developed
VERY conscious.
For more developed players: the finger lifting should be minimized in hight
at high speeds, and eventually you even can stay IN the key without letting
the key come up entirely, resulting in a more legato like sound. By
controlling arm weight and finger speed during repeated notes the dynamics
can be regulated very accurate. Excersize also cresc.'s andf dim's on
repeated notes!
Regards,
Tjako van Schie, pianist
http://www.tjakovanschie.com
"fan" <f...@fan.com> wrote in message
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Tjako van Schie
news:20041014221758...@mb-m07.aol.com...
I agree partially here. Of course you are right.
But do not underestimate the function of the hand, wrist and underarm. By
using more of the mass of the hand/arm in resonating movements (so the
finger is less active, and a mere extension of the hand/arm) you get
different repetitional frequencies than moving fingers only. See my reply
about wrist-"vibrato". It has to do with which joints you let participate in
the vertical movements.
Richard Hofheimer
Dana Shinneman. He was a fine teacher but I was a terrible student, so it
was an unproductive two years. I don't know when he studied with List. My
guess would be early 70's.