Easy on guitar, tough on piano
Rob
tough to play on guitar. But what about the converse: What types of
melodic motion are relatively easy on guitar, but require awkward
fingering on keyboards?
Are there particular melodic contours that serve as 'tongue twisters'
on piano, like consecutive P4ths or skipping over strings do on
guitar?
[asking both guitarists and pianists, in case some double on both
instruments]
rpjazzguitar
the guitar player can shift a single grip to different frets, while
the pianist has to think about the individual fingerings. If it's an
unusual voicing it can drive the pianist nuts.
Edu Lobo has a song called Nego Maluco which has xx4231 moved around
to various frets for a "hook". There are 13 of this grip played in a
row at a bunch of different frets.
Laurence Payne
Guitarists can repeat a chord or pattern up or down a fret very easily
where a pianist would need to vary the fingering. But it's not a big
problem.
brucer
"Rob" <Rob@noemail_.com> wrote in message
news:psmdd556l62t0bc1u...@4ax.com...
pmfan57
>
> - Show quoted text -
Parallel harmony is super easy on guitar, but requires some
refingering on the piano.
Joey Goldstein
Some aspects of transposition are easier on guitar.
Some aspects of block chording ala drop voicings are easier on guitar.
The blues scale is easier on guitar.
--
Joey Goldstein
<http://www.joeygoldstein.com>
<http://homepage.mac.com/josephgoldstein/AudioClips/audio.htm>
joegold AT primus DOT ca
Gerry
Guitarists can do runs in scale-tone 10's and wider. Only pianists with
physical anomalies can get beyond 10's, though there's not much call
for it anyway. Most pianists can't manage 10's in a number of locations.
On guitar it's much easier to imagine that the band won't fall apart if
you're not filling up the sound-profile for maximum density. On guitar
it's easier to play "spare", or "tasty" if you prefer. I say this only
from my personal experience, I wouldn't imagine it's impossible on
piano, bu they rarely seem to evidence this. Maybe it's part of "the
way" of the instrument.
Again based only on my personal experience, they don't seem to be able
to do stage grimaces, and maybe that's because they can't bend, which
is the perfect time for a grimace or even a full-out kabuki "mie" (see
wiki for that).
Continuing with their stage limitations they aren't capable of really
hunching a microphone stand, though Jerry Lee Lewis and Little Richard
got some points for knocking over their piano bench. Hell I've knocked
over boatloads of chairs and bar-stools, sometimes while still
occupying them.
--
Dogmatism kills jazz. Iconoclasm kills rock. Rock dulls scissors.
tom walls
> Again based only on my personal experience, they don't seem to be able
> to do stage grimaces, and maybe that's because they can't bend, which
> is the perfect time for a grimace or even a full-out kabuki "mie" (see
> wiki for that).
>
> Continuing with their stage limitations they aren't capable of really
> hunching a microphone stand, though Jerry Lee Lewis and Little Richard
> got some points for knocking over their piano bench. Hell I've knocked
> over boatloads of chairs and bar-stools, sometimes while still
> occupying them.
> --
This reminds me of the late fusion period when guys started dancing
around with those little portable keyboards. Dancing and smiling for
the peoples. They'd do a lot of pitch wheel bending, too. Chick and
Herbie were both guilty of this. Hell, they're probably still doing
it, hams that they are.
Gerry
> On Oct 15, 1:56�pm, Gerry <somewh...@sunny.calif> wrote:
>
>> Again based only on my personal experience, they don't seem to be able
>> to do stage grimaces, and maybe that's because they can't bend, which
>> is the perfect time for a grimace or even a full-out kabuki "mie" (see
>> wiki for that).
>>
>> Continuing with their stage limitations they aren't capable of really
>> hunching a microphone stand, though Jerry Lee Lewis and Little Richard
>> got some points for knocking over their piano bench. �Hell I've knocked
>> over boatloads of chairs and bar-stools, sometimes while still
>> occupying them.
>
> This reminds me of the late fusion period when guys started dancing
> around with those little portable keyboards. Dancing and smiling for
> the peoples. They'd do a lot of pitch wheel bending, too. Chick and
> Herbie were both guilty of this. Hell, they're probably still doing
> it, hams that they are.
Yeah, when keyboard players started wearing keyboards around their neck
I almost began to pity them. Almost.
pmfan57
>
> - Show quoted text -
Except that the stuff Chick was playing was still better than 99% of
guitarists, even on that portable keyboard.
Bg
> I can think of lots of things that seem more 'pianistic' that are
> tough to play on guitar. But what about the converse: What types of
> melodic motion are relatively easy on guitar, but require awkward
> fingering on keyboards?
>
Harmonics :-)
Bg
Joe Finn
news:psmdd556l62t0bc1u...@4ax.com...
To me the big difference is in the chords. Close voicings that are pretty
easy on piano can be a real stretch on guitar especially when seconds are
involved. Many guitar voicings that are easy to finger likewise will tend to
stretch out the hand on piano. ...joe
--
Visit me on the web www.JoeFinn.net
Gerry
>>> This reminds me of the late fusion period when guys started dancing
>>> around with those little portable keyboards. Dancing and smiling for
>>> the peoples. They'd do a lot of pitch wheel bending, too. Chick and
>>> Herbie were both guilty of this. Hell, they're probably still doing
>>> it, hams that they are.
>>
>> Yeah, when keyboard players started wearing keyboards around their neck
>> I almost began to pity them. �Almost.
>
> Except that the stuff Chick was playing was still better than 99% of
> guitarists, even on that portable keyboard.
I guess we listen to 99% different guitarists. I wonder imagine why
Chick, and everybody else, gave up the one-handed synthesizer with a
pitch wheel.
pmfan57
He plays the same lines on those synths as he plays on piano. What
guitarists play as good as Chick Corea?
Gerry
> On Oct 16, 12:26�am, Gerry <somewh...@sunny.calif> wrote:
>> On 2009-10-15 14:45:00 -0700, pmfan57 <jwrag...@aol.com> said:
>>
>>>>> This reminds me of the late fusion period when guys started dancing
>>>>> around with those little portable keyboards. Dancing and smiling for
>>>>> the peoples. They'd do a lot of pitch wheel bending, too. Chick and
>>>>> Herbie were both guilty of this. Hell, they're probably still doing
>>>>> it, hams that they are.
>>
>>>> Yeah, when keyboard players started wearing keyboards around their neck
>>>> I almost began to pity them. �Almost.
>>
>>> Except that the stuff Chick was playing was still better than 99% of
>>> guitarists, even on that portable keyboard.
>>
>> I guess we listen to 99% different guitarists. I wonder why
>> Chick, and everybody else, gave up the one-handed synthesizer with a
>> pitch wheel.
>
> He plays the same lines on those synths as he plays on piano. What
> guitarists play as good as Chick Corea?
Sorry, I'm booked this afternoon.
Rob
wrote:
>bend a note.
Lol. Well, the synth players get around that with the pitch wheel, but
it's not quite the same.
I saw a very good classical pianist that seemed to be able to bend
notes. She was deep into what she was playing, and it was a visual
body-english thing, but certainly involving.
Rob
wrote:
That's a good one. Of course a keyboard player with decent span can
bridge two P5ths with one hand. So with two hands that's 6 notes, and
probably a finger-twister on guitar, even with the pianists hands
close together.
(Keith Emerson must have used both hands for the lead line of Tarkus,
now that I think of it)
Rob
I guess that must be the main advantage to guitar then--instant close
transpositions.
I was thinking that there would be a certain type of finger motion
that would be tough on piano. Maybe something involving the 3rd and
4th fingers, given their lack of independance from each other. I don't
have enough keyboard chops to judge what that could be though.
steve
1. Hitting tennis balls.
2. Rowing a canoe.
3. Braining the musician who plays it poorly.
4. Carrying on as luggage.
5. Saving it from a fire.
6. Throwing it on a fire.
Stuff that's easy with a piano, but tough with a guitar:
1. Having sex on it.
2. Having sex in it.
3. Theft prevention.
4. Using it as a bar.
5. Dropping it from a high rise on to cartoon characters...no matter how
fast or far they run, bike, drive, or fly it still lands on them.
steve
--
"DONT TREAD ON ME"
Gadsden Flag
Michael L Kankiewicz
"sweep" knuckling
Russell
Playing their own instrument that they control the tuning of.
Rick Stone
> Again based only on my personal experience, they don't seem to be able
> to do stage grimaces, and maybe that's because they can't bend, which is
> the perfect time for a grimace or even a full-out kabuki "mie" (see wiki
> for that).
I guess you haven't seen Tony Monaco play with Pat Martino? Or doesn't
B3 count :-)
--
Rick Stone
email: rick...@rickstone.com
website: www.rickstone.com
epk: www.sonicbids.com/rickstone
Other sites: www.myspace.com/rickstonemusic
www.facebook.com/rickstonemusic www.reverbnation.com/rickstone
www.youtube.com/jazzand www.cdbaby.com/all/jazzand jazzguitarny.ning.com
Gerry
> Gerry wrote:
>
>> Again based only on my personal experience, they don't seem to be able
>> to do stage grimaces, and maybe that's because they can't bend, which
>> is the perfect time for a grimace or even a full-out kabuki "mie" (see
>> wiki for that).
>
> I guess you haven't seen Tony Monaco play with Pat Martino? Or doesn't
> B3 count :-)
No. B3's, synths, accordions, melodica's--none of those count.
Exceptions of course are allowed to pianists that sing of course.
I checked my "personal experience" anew, and do remember working with a
pianist who did the grimace thing a great deal one weekend. Later I
found out it was hemorrhoids.
Gerry
> I can think of lots of things that seem more 'pianistic' that are
> tough to play on guitar. But what about the converse: What types of
> melodic motion are relatively easy on guitar, but require awkward
> fingering on keyboards?
>
> Are there particular melodic contours that serve as 'tongue twisters'
> on piano, like consecutive P4ths or skipping over strings do on
> guitar?
I'm loving a monthly "trio Sunday" in which I listen to nothing but
guitar trios for an hour or two. What joy. One has to be a lover of
guitar, of course, to really appreciate this. There are those among us
"guitarists" that seem to see us as ugly duckling of "the line"
compared to any horn at any time. And the dwarfed harmonist when
compared to any piano any time. Me, I love the guitar and not only do I
not need to add a "compared to what" at the end, I find it an
interruption and a nuisance. It's like being enthralled with a
painting by George Braque at a museum and suffering another "I like
Picasso better", or pecorino, or chardonnay or something else. It's
nice to dig something for itself and not necessarily as part of a
continuum in which it's better than X or lesser than Y.
But your question is by definition comparative. Fair enough. And that
question is addressed specificaly to "melodic motion" and "melodic
contours". Relative to actual usage, among capable players of both
instruments, I don't think there is any substantive distinction in
capability. It's true that wider skips for a pianist can be problematic
in some keys at some speeds. Likewise there are the same wider skips
that are easy enough to get to on guitar--in theory---but in some
*locations* at some speeds it can be just as much of a problem shifting
there, starting on the right finger, accessing it in the middle of a
certain picking scheme and so forth.
As mentioned elsewhere there are some things that are impossible for a
pianist to do, like some tenths and most intervals beyond--with one
hand alone. But the reality is that these things are never really
called for. It is an abstracted "limitation" for the most part.
So it's a wash, say I.
I give an inordinate amount of lip-service to how much of a pain in the
ass pianists are to work with in the real world. But it's mostly
shtick; I'm just having fun. At the same time I can listen to two
hours of Bill Evans, Bill, Charlap, Kenny Barron, Roland Hanna, Hank
Jones, Red Garland, Chick Corea, Keith Jarrett, Cedar Walton and many
others--and not want to share their sound with a horn player thank you!
But in my hear of hearts, for all kinds of self-serving and
synaptically-secured reasons, I prefer a guitar trio. In listening to
them today, melodic contours aside, I ponder the myriad aproachs to
attack, sliding and bending and vibrato, and so many other aspects that
gives the guitar a personality of "voice" that pianists can only dream
about.
Steve Freides
news:psmdd556l62t0bc1u...@4ax.com...
Not exactly an answer to the question you asked, but I play both, and
lately I've been playing the same tune on both, When Sunny Gets Blue. I
find my approach is really different, and I wouldn't be surprised if I
played recordings of both to people and they thought it was two
different people playing instead of the same person. There are just
things you do on guitar, e.g., sometimes hitting a bass note earlier
than the rest of the chord, that don't make sense on a piano. I find I
do this relatively often on guitar when playing by myself, even if I'm
playing without a pick, because you're kind of your own bass player, and
I almost never do it on piano unless I'm doing some unusually rangy
thing.
I should record this tune on both instruments and post it somewhere...
-S-
MB
news:7l0te3F...@mid.individual.net...
p.s. I remember you from dbadvisor - foxpro etc.
Uiop99
I went to a Herbie Hancock concert some months ago and he did use the
strap-on keyboard.
Gerry
>> I wonder imagine why Chick, and everybody else, gave up the one-handed
>> synthesizer with a pitch wheel.
>
> I went to a Herbie Hancock concert some months ago and he did use the
> strap-on keyboard.
There are people who play the sackbut, but relative to trombone players
it is an microscopic percentage. I think there are 80's bands that
still use "strap-on keyboards" as part of their stage act too.
Steve Freides
Yes, that was me - who are you?
-S-
pmfan57
My son used to sight read through the Galbraith solo arrangements and
they sounded very nice on piano. The stuff from the Joe Pass Guitar
Style also sounds great on piano.
Steve Freides
It's not that you can't, the point is that, left to one's own devices,
you do different things on different instruments due to the nature of
the instrument. Best example I can think of is Villa-Lobos guitar music
(classical guitar) - you can play it on the piano and it's still lovely,
but it's not something anyone would really think of writing for the
piano.
Not that people haven't tried, e.g., Albeniz wrote pieces for the piano
that sound like transcriptions of guitar pieces to many ears, including
mine, and the guitar transcriptions are much more popular than the piano
originals.
-S-