Playing on pianos with a heavy action
Torfi Sigurdsson
I own a german upright piano, named Seiler. It sounds great, is truly a great
instrument, but sometimes harder to play than other pianos and grands that
I've tried. The thing is, it has a heavy action. As a result of this, I
frequently stiffen up while playing. I need to use more muscular force to
play than I would when playing some other kind of piano. I've tried to relax
while playing, and while this helps I still feel a far way off from being able
to play it without feeling uncomfortable.
Should I
get myself a new piano more suited to my physical abilities, or somehow
manage to "get used to" my current instrument?
I've also noted that on uprights the heaviness of the key differs a lot
depending on where you play them, more than when playing a grand piano.
a)the bass notes bein heaviest and the treble ones lightest in touch
b)the notes feel lighter on the outside than on the inner part of the key. This
of course makes sense, but my keys get incredibly heavy when played on the
inside rather on the outside, which of course some passages require that you
do.
So if anyone has had any similar problems and has any advice on how to
overcome them, or if you just like to share a similar story, I would
be extremely pleased to hear from you.
Torfi Sigurdsson
John Yeung
> I own a german upright piano, named Seiler. It sounds great, is truly a
> great instrument, but sometimes harder to play than other pianos and
> grands that I've tried. The thing is, it has a heavy action. As a
> result of this, I frequently stiffen up while playing. I need to use more
> muscular force to play than I would when playing some other kind of piano.
> I've tried to relax while playing, and while this helps I still feel a far
> way off from being able to play it without feeling uncomfortable.
> Should I get myself a new piano more suited to my physical abilities, or
> somehow manage to "get used to" my current instrument?
My personal recommendation is to keep playing on your instrument. I know
that a heavy action is hard to deal with, especially right after you've
effortlessly breezed through a piano with a light touch. But I have yet
to see a piano which is too heavy for regular use.
It's hard for me to give you tips on making it easier to play on your
piano. All I can say is that it IS possible to play with strength while
not stiffening up. In fact, the ONLY way to get the maximum strength in
your body is to avoid tension. A distinction must be made between "relaxed"
and "loose". (I made a lengthy post about this in another thread.) The
only way I know of to learn good relaxation is to work with a teacher or
coach extensively. (This is one area where it's hard or impossible to just
go home and do it yourself, or read a book. I find extremely few people
with chronic stiffness able to work it out by themselves, including myself.)
There are other benefits to a heavy action besides the physical
conditioning, the chief one being control. I haven't played too many
uprights in the last few years, but I feel that when faced with a
light action, it is easy to let notes get away from me by letting them
almost play themselves. Also, when I practice on a light action I find it
easier to be less disciplined with touch.
But that's not to say you have no hope if you can't get comfortable with
this keyboard. In complete honesty, one of the reasons my parents bought
me a new piano was because I complained about the action. I wish I could
give you more concrete advice, but until you get more responses on this
thread, don't commit to a new piano. Good luck!
John
Israel Stein
> Torfi Sigurdsson
There are many things a competent piano technician can do to remedy a
heavy action. The piano may be poorly regulated, the action centers may
have too much friction in them, the keys may be improperly weighted. Find
a piano technician skilled in action regulation - whatever the cost may
be, it is better than looking for another piano or playing one that is
too heavy for you.
If you can e-mail me your geographic locale, I may even be able to
suggest someone...
Israel Stein
Piano Tuner/Technician
Nhat-Viet Phi
: I own a german upright piano, named Seiler... The thing is, it has a
: heavy action. As a result of this, I frequently stiffen up while playing.
Not good at all. In my humble opinion, you should not let your piano be a
source of undue strain. (Beyond certain limits, of course. I also cannot
condone pianos that are light enough to blow on.)
: I need to use more muscular force to play than I would when playing
: some other kind of piano... Should I get myself a new piano more suited
: to my physical abilities, or somehow manage to "get used to" my
: current instrument?
I was under the distinct impression that all acoustic pianos use actions
which can be regulated for different keyboard weights! I haven't played any
Seilers, but surely yours could be modified by a competent technician??
Nhat-Viet Phi
nhat...@nucleus.com
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Thierry Despeyroux
|>
|> I own a german upright piano, named Seiler. It sounds great, is truly a great
|> instrument, but sometimes harder to play than other pianos and grands that
|> I've tried. The thing is, it has a heavy action. As a result of this, I
|> frequently stiffen up while playing. I need to use more muscular force to
|> play than I would when playing some other kind of piano. I've tried to relax
|> while playing, and while this helps I still feel a far way off from being able
|> to play it without feeling uncomfortable.
I have a Seiler uprights too, and have the same problem. I asked my technician
about this problem. His answer is, first, that on some Seiler uprights (mine was
made in 1976) the position of the action (a good Renner one) is not good
resulting in too heavy action, second, on my piano some axels (pins?) must be
changed due to humidity and use.
To see if the second point apply to you, push the left pedal and release it
very quickly. The hammers must go back at their previous position quickly
and at the same time. If it is not the case there must be some frictions
somewhere.
I think that it is worth to repair. Seiler's are good pianos.
[I didn't have mine repaired yet. I use my Seiler for exercises just to have
a more heavy action now that I have a Bluthner baby grand. I have to
spend some money on the last one to have it in perfect condition first, but
I will certainly repair the Seiler after that. Yes, I can play more easily
on the Bluthner, and even play pieces that I am not able to play on the Seiler.
But I decided that due to the price of good pianos now, I will keep the Seiler.
May be one day I will need it, for one of my children for example.]
|> Should I
|> get myself a new piano more suited to my physical abilities, or somehow
|> manage to "get used to" my current instrument?
I can't help you here. Mine sounds great. It was what I prefered some years
ago, even with its heavy action. But was not so heavy at this time, and pieces
I was playing was easier...
|> I've also noted that on uprights the heaviness of the key differs a lot
|> depending on where you play them, more than when playing a grand piano.
|> a)the bass notes bein heaviest and the treble ones lightest in touch
This seems normal as the hammer are bigger for the bass notes. May be on some
piano there is something to compensate this.
|> b)the notes feel lighter on the outside than on the inner part of the key. This
|> of course makes sense, but my keys get incredibly heavy when played on the
|> inside rather on the outside, which of course some passages require that you
|> do.
This is always the case and you can use it to get different sounds. And yes
I also feel it more on my Seiler than on a grand.
Thierry
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Raphael
My own teachers have, in their time, had me practice for a heavy touch piano
on my own (very light touch indeed) Yamaha. This was because at one point, I
encountered a heavy touch piano in a concert when they unexpectedly changed
halls on me, and ended up with an airy sort of sound. Dumb, but a typical
problem for younger pianists who have done all their practicing on light
touch pianos. So then.
What she had me do was practice everything slowly, VERY slowly, using a deep
touch. Note, not HEAVY. Just deep. Heavy implies playing everything loud and
weighty; deep is just making sure that you sink to the very bottom of the
key.. and then beyond. And you can still control your dynamics, color, and
tone quality in such a way.
This is what I suggest for your practicing. It's difficult, I know, not to
stiffen up if you're practicing full speed on it; and there will be a lot of
technical problems that you'll develop as habit after a while that you would
probably rather avoid. Take it a little at a time -- almost as if you're
taking up practicing again after a long time away from the piano. One hour,
then an hour and a half the next day, then maybe two hours a few days after
that.. and so on.
Just my opinion. :) ( I dunno. Would saying 'humble' be a contradiction in
terms? I mean... who's REALLY met a humble pianist? ;)
Raphael@ESM
International Suzuki Association
Neil Webber
Question: what constitutes a "heavy" action? My new Steinway L
action weighs in at 54g as measured by my technician. He put
weights on the end of the keys until finding the one that would
just barely make the key go down.
He said 50g was ideal, with 54g being on the heavy side (I hope
I've remembered these numbers correctly; I am certain it was 4g
over "ideal" and I *think* ideal was 50g).
My question is: how "heavy" is this? How much of a difference
is there between 54g and 50g? (duh, 4g :-)). I happen to
like the way it is now, but who knows? Maybe I'd like it
even more at 50g.
What the world needs is a piano lab with calibrated actions
so you can pick the one you like the best. :-)
- neil
--
Neil Webber / n...@world.std.com
Israel Stein
>On a slightly related note (sorry) ...
>Question: what constitutes a "heavy" action? My new Steinway L
>action weighs in at 54g as measured by my technician. He put
>weights on the end of the keys until finding the one that would
>just barely make the key go down.
>He said 50g was ideal, with 54g being on the heavy side (I hope
>I've remembered these numbers correctly; I am certain it was 4g
>over "ideal" and I *think* ideal was 50g).
This is not entirely correct. Steinway specifications for touch weight do
not give an ideal number. I can't find my spec. sheet, but if memory
serves the range is from somewhere in the mid to low fifties in the bass
to the high forties in the treble for medium size grands such as the L.
For larger grands the specs are heavier, for smaller ones - lighter.
>My question is: how "heavy" is this? How much of a difference >is there
between 54g and 50g? (duh, 4g :-)). I happen to >like the way it is now,
but who knows? Maybe I'd like it >even more at 50g.
If you like the piano the way it is now, then for heaven's sake, leave it
alone. I don't know what kind of music you play and how you play it, but
a heavier action (within reason) gives you a lot more control over soft
and legato playing.
>What the world needs is a piano lab
with calibrated actions >so you can pick the one you like the best. :-)
> - neil
>--
>Neil Webber / n...@world.std.com
Not really. I guess your technician didn't tell you the whole story.
Touch weight is only one of the factors in how your action actually feels
to you. Since touch weight is determined with the dampers disengaged (I
hope that's what he did - if not, your action is way too light) the feel
depends very much on how your dampers are regulated (early? late?) and
how much friction there is in the damper mechanism. Then there are other
complexities that have to do with inertia - weight of the hammer vs. the
fulcrum point on which the key rocks - which apparently (at least
according to David Stanwood, he of the infamous Stanwood action) can make
two actions with the same touch weight feel very different - one
"heavier" than the other. Friction vs. weight (two different ways of
controlling touch weight) and weights vs. springs are more factors that
make objective comparisons very unproductive.
I recently attempted to rescue an action on a Steinway B which was
mangled by some fool "technician" - who put totally incorrect weight
replacement hammers on it, so that touch weight was about 70 gr. That's
asking for tendonitis. Generally, an action with touch weight above 55-56
or so in the bass will feel too heavy for most pianists, and even in the
low to mid fifties will be uncomfirtable to some. (Remember, weight
should gradually lessen as you go up the scale). So if you are going to
mess around with the touch weight of your piano, find a technician that
knows something about it besides "ideal weights". Ain't no such thing.
Israel Stein
Jamie K. Syer
> > great instrument, but sometimes harder to play than other pianos and
> > grands that I've tried. The thing is, it has a heavy action.
I've found with my own piano students, that many who play regularly on a
piano with a 'light' action, have trouble creating a good tone on my piano,
which has a somewhat 'heavier' action. But those who play on a piano with a
heavier touch don't usually have problems controlling a lighter action.
da...@alex.dgsys.com
In article <jksyer-08...@cgyr5.ccinet.ab.ca>, <jks...@ccinet.ab.ca>
writes:
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> From: jks...@ccinet.ab.ca (Jamie K. Syer)
> Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.piano
> Subject: Re: Playing on pianos with a heavy action
> Followup-To: rec.music.makers.piano
> Date: 9 Nov 1994 05:45:18 GMT
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>
I find this subject rather interesting. I have a Kawai KG-2 Grand that
I consider to have a very heavy action. I find it difficult to play if I have
been off for several days, but I find it easy to move to a softer action piano,
such as many of the Yamaha's.
I have always wanted to put a Yamaha action into a Kawai grand to see
what it would be like.
I've played all kinds of music, but now tend to play light-hearted
honky-tonk, ragtime and early jazz. I find much of this difficult on a heavy
action piano and easy on softer ones.
I have found that a heavy action develops better control over dynamics,
but can be difficult to play quick repeating notes. You must simply be well
practiced to play a heavy action piano. Requires more effort.
Any thoughts.
Achim Gratz
>> > I own a german upright piano, named Seiler. It sounds great,
>> is truly a > great instrument, but sometimes harder to play
>> than other pianos and > grands that I've tried. The thing is,
>> it has a heavy action.
Jamie> I've found with my own piano students, that many who play
Jamie> regularly on a piano with a 'light' action, have trouble
Jamie> creating a good tone on my piano, which has a somewhat
Jamie> 'heavier' action. But those who play on a piano with a
Jamie> heavier touch don't usually have problems controlling a
Jamie> lighter action.
I have a piano with a really heavy (not stiff!) action, and my former
teacher has a piano with a light action. I usually had problems to
play pianissimo on her piano and showed a tendency to play faster and
with more imprecise timing. The con of a heavy action is that I have
much more problems to work out the melody, but that seems to help when
I have to play on another piano.
--
Achim Gratz
-+==##{([***Murphy is always right***])}##==+-
E-Mail: gr...@ite.inf.tu-dresden.de
Phone: +49 351 4575 - 325