Beethoven Pathetique Sonata
Gary Coombs
Anyone else working on the Beethoven Pathetique?
I'm just starting the 3rd movement, after having taken them in order.
I'm curious about such things as how long it takes a reasonably talented
pianist to make a major work such as this part of his repertoire?
Is there a generally accepted grade level for this piece?
Thanks,
--
Gary
http://www.netsystems.com/personal/gary/gary.html
Elmo Peeler
Dear Gary,
I studied the "Pathetique" my Freshman year at the Eastman School of Music
in Rochester, NY, under Eugene List, and performed it on the end-of-the-year
jury exam.
Obviously a work of great genius, it nevertheless is not one of the most
difficult Beethoven Sonatas, but right around the middle. It is excellent
preparation for the Appassionata and the late sonatas.
The second movement has one of the most transcendentally beautiful melodies
ever written, period.
The third movement is the most difficult of the three. The fast eighth notes
most be perfectly articulate, and always perfectly controlled, never "run-on"
or rushed. And phrase that melody right, never rushing the endings of the
phrases.
It's grade level is of medium difficulty. The University Society that for
many years published The International Library of Music (sort of an encyclopedia
of music, mostly sheet music) did rank many classical pieces. Of seven grades,
with the 7th being the most difficult, they put the Pathetique into Grade 5,
which began with the Rachmaninov Prelude in g minor, Op.23, No.5, and ended
with Prokofieff's March, from "The Love of Three Oranges". Grade 5 also
contains Beethoven's "Moonlight" sonata, a little easier than the Pathetique,
according to them. Actually, I've played both, and the 3rd mvmt of the Moonlight
is more difficult than any movement of the Pathetique.
For reference, the University Society puts the Waldstein, Op.53, in Grade 7,
just before the Appassionata, Op.57, which is a little more difficult.
Grade 7 starts with Ravel's "Jeux d'eau" and ends with Brahms "Variations and
Fugue on a Theme of Handel". The University Society does not rank any other
Beethoven Sonatas, though we all know that the "HammerKlavier" is the most
difficult of Beethoven's sonatas.
There was a student at Eastman named Curt that had both photographic memory
and perfect pitch, and I saw Curt learn from scratch and memorize the Schumann
Piano Concerto in one day, starting in the AM and playing it for us around
10 PM as they closed up the practice rooms for the night. However, Curt didn't
have the best technique in the world. Perhaps to better answer your question,
how long it takes to become a part of one's repertoire, comes from the answer
Byron Janis gave me when I asked him backstage the same question, but about
the Rachmaninov Piano Concerto No.2 in c minor, right after he'd performed it
at the Eastman Theatre. He smiled, said he'd gotten the notes in about two
weeks, but that it took him 6 months before he felt he'd lived with it long
enough to perform it in public. (This was before his illness)
Eugene List said that he would relearn the Liszt Piano Sonata in b minor -
4 seamless movements, complete with fugue - every five years, because it was
so profound that he would find new meanings in it every time he'd relearn it.
It took me about two weeks of constant practice to learn the notes of the
Liszt Sonata, but I concentrated on nothing else. After about three months
I felt much more comfortable performing it, though.
My highly subjective humble opinion is that each movement in Beethoven's
Pathetique should take you about a week to learn and memorize the notes.
At the end of one month you should be able to play the entire Pathetique
from memory. To make it a part of your repertoire, you'd have it in four
months if you played it a lot for friends, recorded it a lot, etc., for
the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th months, after the first month spent learning it. It
goes without saying that every piece benefits from having lived with you
for a long time - the longer the better.
Best wishes,
Elmo Peeler
ManyMIDI Products
http://www.manymidi.com
Fathom
In article <3203CF...@ManyMIDI.com>, Elmo Peeler <El...@ManyMIDI.com> wrote:
> For reference, the University Society puts the Waldstein, Op.53, in Grade 7,
> just before the Appassionata, Op.57, which is a little more difficult.
> Grade 7 starts with Ravel's "Jeux d'eau" and ends with Brahms "Variations and
> Fugue on a Theme of Handel"
I find this remarkable. I have learned the Waldstein, though it took me a
long time, but my attempts at the Appassionata and Jeux d'eau have
convinced me that they are simply beyond my capabilility. Am I missing
something, or have other people found these pieces more difficult?
> It took me about two weeks of constant practice to learn the notes of the
> Liszt Sonata, but I concentrated on nothing else. After about three months
> I felt much more comfortable performing it, though.
>
> My highly subjective humble opinion is that each movement in Beethoven's
> Pathetique should take you about a week to learn and memorize the notes.
> At the end of one month you should be able to play the entire Pathetique
> from memory. To make it a part of your repertoire, you'd have it in four
> months if you played it a lot
This is assuming "constant practice." Since Gary Commbs, who posed the
question, didn't indicate what else he is doing, this is an extreme
assumption!
--
Fathom >8-)>
*********************************
Custom-designed reality is a labor-intensive product.
*****************************************************
kojisato
In article <fathom-0308...@d216.pm6.sonic.net>, fat...@sonic.net
(Fathom) wrote:
> In article <3203CF...@ManyMIDI.com>, Elmo Peeler <El...@ManyMIDI.com> wrote:
>
> > For reference, the University Society puts the Waldstein, Op.53, in
Grade 7,
> > just before the Appassionata, Op.57, which is a little more difficult.
> > Grade 7 starts with Ravel's "Jeux d'eau" and ends with Brahms
"Variations and
> > Fugue on a Theme of Handel"
>
> I find this remarkable. I have learned the Waldstein, though it took me a
> long time, but my attempts at the Appassionata and Jeux d'eau have
> convinced me that they are simply beyond my capabilility. Am I missing
> something, or have other people found these pieces more difficult?
Funny, I had more problems with Waldstein, especially the last movement.
K. Attwood
B Kwong
Gary Coombs (ga...@netsystems.com) wrote:
: Anyone else working on the Beethoven Pathetique?
:
: I'm just starting the 3rd movement, after having taken them in order.
:
: I'm curious about such things as how long it takes a reasonably talented
: pianist to make a major work such as this part of his repertoire?
A truly variable question that's only answerable by the pianist. It took
me a few months..
: Is there a generally accepted grade level for this piece?
In Canada it's grade 10 (highest under ARCT). I don't know if that's any
help
_____ bkwong@ _____ "The creatures
"The /<><><\oo / / gpu.srv.ualberta.ca ^..^ \9 outside looked
best <><><><( -) / / / /_ ___ ___ ___ (oo)_____/ from pig to man
pot ' LL| LL| / , \/ _/\\/\/ , \/ _ \/ , '/ WW WW and from man to
cleaner in the /_,__/_/_\\___/\___/_//_/\_, / to pig... but already it
world is specially selected /\____/ / was impossible to say
Tortoise Brand" -Shonen Knife \______/ which was which." -Orwell
----------++++++++++----------
"I believe everybody is born more or less Schubertian,
but society soon knocks it out of one" -RS
Brenda and Larry Clough
I've been working on op. 13 for about a couple months now. I can play the
2nd and 3rd movements pretty well, but the 1st movement is still a tough
cookie. I should say that I practice less than an hour a day, and usually
only play one movement of the sonata at a time.
Brenda
Elmo Peeler
Fathom wrote:
>
> In article <3203CF...@ManyMIDI.com>, Elmo Peeler <El...@ManyMIDI.com> wrote:
>
>
> > Liszt Sonata, but I concentrated on nothing else. After about three months
> > I felt much more comfortable performing it, though.
> >
> > My highly subjective humble opinion is that each movement in Beethoven's
> > Pathetique should take you about a week to learn and memorize the notes.
> > At the end of one month you should be able to play the entire Pathetique
> > from memory. To make it a part of your repertoire, you'd have it in four
> > months if you played it a lot
>
> question, didn't indicate what else he is doing, this is an extreme
> assumption!
>
> --
> Fathom >8-)>
> *********************************
>
No, with respect, I meant college-level practice, about 3 to 6 hours per day,
six or seven days a week. That's why I specifically mentioned that my study
of the Liszt Sonata was an exception; learning it at Interlochen one summer,
I spent about 10 hours a day on it, seven days a week.
Elmo
ManyMIDI Products
http://www.manymidi.com
Gary Coombs
Fathom <fat...@sonic.net> wrote in article
<fathom-0308...@d216.pm6.sonic.net>...
>
> This is assuming "constant practice." Since Gary Commbs, who posed the
> question, didn't indicate what else he is doing, this is an extreme
> assumption!
Quite an assumption, indeed! Gary Coombs works full time as a software
engineer, but since he no longer has kids at home gets 2 to 3 hours
practice every evening and perhaps double that, if he is lucky, on the
weekends. I felt really inadequate until Elmo let us know how much time
was actually spent. Now I feel satisfied with my progress and studying
with a teacher who was herself a prodigy and a student of Rudolf Ganz gives
me a lot of satisfaction with the technique that is being learned at the
same time. I have been doing scale studies and Czerny exercises along with
the Beethoven. Since Czerny was himself a student of Beethoven, the
combination is just unbeatable, in my opinion. I have learned more piano
and more music in the past 6 months than I have in the past 6 years.
Isn't piano study wonderful???
Gary (who is indescribably pleased with himself)
http://www.mindspring.com/~coombs
Gary Coombs
Brenda and Larry Clough <clo...@erols.com> wrote in article
<4u3bha$r...@test-sun.erols.com>...
My teacher had me start with the first movement and then take them in
order. Since the first time I ever heard the piece I had fallen in love
with the first movement, I wasn't going to be satisfied until I could play
it first. I have studied piano for about 10 1/2 years now. But
unfortunately only the first year and a half and the last 6 months have
been with a teacher.
And a big thanks to Elmo who gave such a wonderful answer to my original
question.
The biggest help I had in learning the first movement was relaxation and
arm weight. As soon as I lost all the tension, the tremolo in the left
hand could continue all day! I love it!
Matthew Sheppard
I think we need a seperate newsgroup rec.music.makers.piano.pathetique.
I'm working on it. I'm a moderatly talented player with not a lot of
training other then teaching myself.
I just finished the 2nd (always been my favorite piece for the piano)
and am struggling with the 1st. I plan on tackling the 3rd after the
1st. Which I think may not be for another month or two =<
QUESTION: What is the squiggly thing over the notes in the 2nd
movement??? I can hear it in the recordings I have, but do not know how
to PLAY it. If I knew the NAME of the thing I could look it up in my
music dictionary, but I don't. So this would help A LOT.
ANSWER:
As far as time frames: It's taken me about 2 months to get the 2nd
movement to a point where I'd play it for other people. That's from
memory, I don't read too fast. I've got about the first 2 pages of the
1st movement memorized and think It's gonna take a while for the rest
(it's longer then the others).
So for me, it's gonna take about 4 months to add this to my repertoire.
No idea on a grade level.
M@
Gary Coombs wrote:
>
> Anyone else working on the Beethoven Pathetique?
>
> I'm just starting the 3rd movement, after having taken them in order.
>
> I'm curious about such things as how long it takes a reasonably talented
> pianist to make a major work such as this part of his repertoire?
>
> Is there a generally accepted grade level for this piece?
>
Craig
What is your problem with the first movement. Those tremelos
in the LH can get tiring if you are not relaxed. Don't try to
play it too fast. Half note = 112 is fast enough. Some
performances go half note = 144. I can do it, but it takes a
lot of practice. Play it slower and pay attn to your
phrasing. It doesn't have to be played at constant velocity,
rather the movement works better with some tempo flux.
I would also be interested in why your practice time is so
short. Is it due to time constraints from family, or is it
due to fatigue?
Family is easy to understand, playing fatigue can be another
problem.
Craig
Brenda and Larry Clough <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
>I've been working on op. 13 for about a couple months now. I can play the
>2nd and 3rd movements pretty well, but the 1st movement is still a tough
>cookie. I should say that I practice less than an hour a day, and usually
>only play one movement of the sonata at a time.
>
>Brenda
>
Andrea Carlassara
koji...@umich.edu (kojisato) wrote:
>In article <fathom-0308...@d216.pm6.sonic.net>, fat...@sonic.net
>(Fathom) wrote:
>> In article <3203CF...@ManyMIDI.com>, Elmo Peeler <El...@ManyMIDI.com> wrote:
>>
>> > For reference, the University Society puts the Waldstein, Op.53, in
>Grade 7,
>> > just before the Appassionata, Op.57, which is a little more difficult.
>> > Grade 7 starts with Ravel's "Jeux d'eau" and ends with Brahms
>"Variations and
>> > Fugue on a Theme of Handel"
> Funny, I had more problems with Waldstein, especially the last movement.
> K. Attwood
So did I. I think Waldstein difficulties are much less 'pianistic'
than Appassionata. In Waldstein you can find some trillos or changes
of position much more difficult than Apassionata arpeggios. And C
major key is sometimes problematic because white keys are, on the
keyboard, all the same (obviously :-))
Anyway in Italy op. 13 and op. 53 are in the same grade (middle
course). Op. 57 is in the highest grade (superior course).
Andrea Carlassara
Tatjana Gajic
On Sun, 4 Aug 1996, Elmo Peeler wrote:
> Fathom wrote:
> >
> > In article <3203CF...@ManyMIDI.com>, Elmo Peeler <El...@ManyMIDI.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > It took me about two weeks of constant practice to learn the notes of the
> > > Liszt Sonata, but I concentrated on nothing else. After about three months
> > > I felt much more comfortable performing it, though.
> > >
> > > My highly subjective humble opinion is that each movement in Beethoven's
> > > Pathetique should take you about a week to learn and memorize the notes.
> > > At the end of one month you should be able to play the entire Pathetique
> > > from memory. To make it a part of your repertoire, you'd have it in four
> > > months if you played it a lot
> >
> > This is assuming "constant practice." Since Gary Commbs, who posed the
> > question, didn't indicate what else he is doing, this is an extreme
> > assumption!
> >
> > --
> > Fathom >8-)>
>
> No, with respect, I meant college-level practice, about 3 to 6 hours per day,
> six or seven days a week. That's why I specifically mentioned that my study
> of the Liszt Sonata was an exception; learning it at Interlochen one summer,
> I spent about 10 hours a day on it, seven days a week.
>
> Elmo
I hate these kind of comparisons. I haven't read the FAQ recently,
did they list an all-purpose answer to: How long will it take to learn
XXX??
How long it takes to learn a piece depends on many different variables.
The first, and most important variable, is what do you mean by
learning a piece? Do you want to play it for yourself? Memorized,
or not? Do you want to play it for friends? Do you want to play
it at full speed without mistakes for a competition?
One person's learning a piece is definetly not another's.
More variables:
most obviously, how long do you have to practice? although this is
most obvious, its not the sole or best indicator of how long it will
take you.
How many pieces of this difficulty level have you learned? If the
piece is harder than what you've played before, it will take you
longer to learn it, EVEN IF YOU HAVE THE TECHNIQUE TO PLAY IT.
Why is that? it relates to some of the other variables:
--how well do you read? - some people are faster readers than others,
and can pick up the notes faster. This is something one must practice,
just like technique.
--how well do you memorize? - some people are better memorizers than
others, etc.......This is something one must practice, etc...
--how many related pieces or pieces by the same composer have you
played? Most composers have specific technical traits which reappear.
Chopin is the most obvious. It took me a long time to get the G minor
ballade down, but I got the F minor ballade down much faster, although
generally its considered harder. Why? it uses some similar technical
ideas. This is why I find it so helpful to practice Chopin's etudes.
They are not just technique, but CHOPIN's technique, concentrated.
Beethoven is another one for me. I can learn Beethoven sonatas very
quickly now, because I've gotten in more-or-less good shape about 12 of
the sonatas. On the other hand, I'm studying the prokofiev 7th sonata
now, and its my first Prokofiev piece, so its taking my longer than I
thought it would.
What is your technique like? I don't want to go into this because I'm
not an expert on technique, and there's a lot written on it. Some people
who are excellent memorizors and readers have a middling technique and
can learn pieces really quickly but never play them convincingly. Others
take a while to learn a piece, but end up playing it at professional level,
because their technique is there. This is also realated to...
At what speed do you want to play the piece? Its probably easier to
play the Pathetique at a half-note=120 than a half note = 160. Particularly
if you are interested in articulation, and not in blurring all the notes.
This relates to how well you want to learn the piece. Also, some pieces
sound great at a slower tempo than professionals play them, and some
do not. Professionals vary as well - Brendal takes the finale of
the Moonlight sonata at about 152 (this is on the VOX label), Pollini
at I think around 168, and Schnabel at about 180. However long it
took them to learn it, most people would have more trouble with
180 than 152, all things equal (like articulation)
Finally, there are and have been certain pianists who didn't and don't
have a huge repotoire. Michelangeli, Lipatti (who once claimed it
would take him 5 years to learn the Emporer concerto - take that,
music students), and Pogorelich (whatever you think of him) limit/limited
themselves to performing fewer, sometimes quite a bit fewer, pieces
than most professionals and music teachers accept now.
I get the feeling that there is a huge rush
in music schools now for studnets to learn as much repotoire as
quickly as possible. I wonder if this also means students can't
live with pieces as long as they perhaps should. Not, of course,
that everything must be learned to the same, super-high pitch,
but does there really have to be such a fetishization of how
long it takes to learn new music?
Sorry about the length of this, and the rant at the end@!
Michael Quinn,
who is not Tatjana Gajic, but is married to her and is
using her email.
Brenda and Larry Clough
I think the squiggle is called a "turn". Sort of a very small trill.
Having returned to piano playing after a 30 year hiatus, I notice the main
thing I've lost is the ability to memorize. I can play the 2nd and 3rd
movements fine, but only with the score in front of me. I doubt I could
get more than a bar or two without looking at it. This doesn't bother me
-- I will never perform under circumstances that don't allow a score.
Brenda
Daniel Grambihler
>Gary Coombs wrote:
>>
>> Anyone else working on the Beethoven Pathetique?
>>
>> I'm just starting the 3rd movement, after having taken them in order.
>>
>> I'm curious about such things as how long it takes a reasonably talented
>> pianist to make a major work such as this part of his repertoire?
>>
>> Is there a generally accepted grade level for this piece?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> --
>> Gary
>> http://www.netsystems.com/personal/gary/gary.html
Me too! (<-- USENET joke).
To make a short story long:
I started taking lessons at 4 and did fairly well. At 5, I had
to switch teachers and the new teacher was less than good. I
grew up in a small town, so my selection was fairly limited (plus
I hadn't learned to assert myself). I rapidly lost interest but
continued to take the lessons (I guess I didn't like the idea
of not playing, but I was unwilling to put in the work required to
reach my potential).
At 13, we moved to another state and I started with a new teacher.
This teacher was wonderful, but between my poor practice habits
and my teen know-it-all attitude, my progress was not what it
could have been. I don't know how my teacher managed to put up with
me. I think she did a great job of teaching me as much as she did.
Anyway, I progressed enough to play accompaniment on moderately
difficult pieces and was an occasional organist at church.
When college came, I pretty much dropped the piano although I
still had delusions of being a much better player than I really
was. But my interest in classical/baroque/romantic steadily
increased during college (and has continued to do so). While
employed as a pizza driver, I spent a lot of time in my car,
and frequently caught Carl Haas's "Adventures In Good Music".
The intro (2nd movement of the Pathetique) always intrigued me,
but I never knew what it was. I haphazardly searched for the title/
author over the ensuing years with no luck.
Three years ago, I started playing again. Although I didn't have a
piano, I had access to one for about a year (although not on a
regular basis), and I was surprised by how much my musicianship had
improved over the years even though I hadn't actually been playing.
This really moved me back toward music once again, and I purchased
a Yamaha keyboard (waiting to afford the digital piano) while
circling with a lot of musicians and also got into MIDI, blues/jazz,
picked up the saxaphone (again), etc. I had just gotten to the point
where I felt ready to start playing with a jazz/blues band when I got
layed off from work. This *seemed* like a golden opportunity, but,
alas - a job came looking for me. One that was too good to refuse,
but also one that required that I spend the next 6months to a year
living out of a suitcase.
So, off I went and dropped the playing. Six months turned into
2 years, at which point I worked a transfer for myself so I could
be a little more stable. But, prior to my move back toward sanity,
during one of my stays at a bed & breakfast, I came across a CD in
my room's collection that had the 2nd movement of the Pathetique.
Finally! I tucked that info away for future reference, and purchased
the music after getting settled down. At the end of June, I rented
a piano and have been playing more each day. I started on the Pathetique
about 4 weeks ago. I tend to favor the 2nd movement (being the easiest
doesn't hurt ;-), but I usually play it through at least every other
day. Up to now, my approach has been pretty shotgun, as I've been playing
a lot of different pieces to try to figure out where I'm at and where I
want to go.
Saturday I stopped at a bookstore and picked up Seymour Bernsteins'
"With Your Own Two Hands" as well as several other books on playing.
I also put a deposit down on a piano (pending financing..."Come on,
financing!"). On Sunday (after reading the first few chapters of
"With Your Own 2..."), I bought a metronome and started following some
of the advice concerning sight reading. I can't believe what a
difference it makes to keep playing through. I've ALWAYS been a "stop
at every mistake and start over" type (much to my teacher's dismay)
and playing with the metronome makes a world of difference in my
playing (in just 3 days...or your money back<g>). I can't really tell
at this point how long it will be before I'm comfortable with any
of the movements, but I can certainly see progress and I'm having a
great time. I'm planning to start lessons again soon, so I think that
will also help.
So, sorry for the thesis, but it felt really good to share my (life?)
story.
- Daniel
--
Daniel Grambihler
dan...@eskimo.com
"If cartoons were meant for adults, they'd be on prime-time." - Lisa Simpson
Craig
I do agree that when one becomes familiar with a particular composer
it becomes easier to learn additional pieces. The technical demands
are similiar, but not identical. Late Beethoven, for example, has
much different technical demands than early Beethoven.
Then another thing that can affect how long it takes to learn a piece
is how detailed an interpretation you wish to give. You may have the
technique to play the piece "up to tempo" but still not have the tech-
nical skills to play it "up to tempo" in a particular manner. This is
why with the major works it is advantageous to go back and relearn
them every 10 years or so. We change, our abilities change.
I am in the process of learning the Mozart A minor Sonata #9. This is
a very difficult piece. I've been experimenting with the tempo,
voicing, pedaling, sound, and emotional intensity. It seems like at
the slower tempos it is even more difficult due to the details
necessary to hold the piece together at the slower tempos.
The "Pathetique" is a difficult piece because of the first movement,
for
me. It is very easy to rush through it to dazzle the listener with
one's technique at the expense of the music. The second and third
movement are easier for me because of their more expressive style.
IMO one should pay more attention to the phrasing and emotions of the
first movement, and leave the half note at 160 speed to the "experts"
who can play at that speed without sacrificing the structure.
For the rest of us, mean speed of 132 is (IMO) fast enough.
Craig
Les Smith
Brenda and Larry Clough (clo...@erols.com) wrote:
: I think the squiggle is called a "turn". Sort of a very small trill.
: Brenda
Brenda's right. It is a turn. A turn consists of 5 notes: the principal
note, it's upper auxillary, the principal notes again, it's lower auxillary,
and then the principal note again. If an accidental is written above the
turn, it affects the upper auxillary. If the accidental is written below
the turn sign, it affects the lower auxillary. A turn sign can have an
accidental both above AND below it. WHERE the turn sign is placed is
important. If the turn sign is placed directly over the principal, it
indicates that all five notes of the turn are to have the same time value.
Thus a quarter note with a turn directly over it would be played as five
even sixtee th notes played in one count. HOWEVER, if the turn sign is not
directly over the principal note, but slightly to the right of it, it in-
dicates that the last four notes of the turn should be played in the time
value of the first. Thus a quarter note with the turn sign slightly to the
right of it would be played as an eighth note followed by four thirty-
second notes. Turns, although not too frequently encountered, are really
not that difficult to learn. With a little practice, you should be able
to master them easily. However, watch out for the one in Chopin's nocturne
in Eb, opus 9, #2. NOTE IT'S PLACEMENT WITH RESPECT TO THE PRINCIPAL NOTE.
For some reason this turn is constantly misplayed as if it were placed dir-
ectly over the principal note. IT'S NOT!!!!!!!! Play it accordingly. I hope
you find this post useful.
Les Smith
less...@buffnet.net
Alexander Hanysz
In article <4ufi3b$4...@buffnet2.buffnet.net>,
Les Smith <less...@buffnet.net> wrote:
Hello again Les! It's good to see you back.
Thanks for your detailed post about turns. However, I feel the need to be
pedantic (one of my favourite hobbies!) on a couple of points:
...
> If the turn sign is placed directly over the principal, it
>indicates that all five notes of the turn are to have the same time value.
In a lot of older music, it can indicate that only four notes are to be
played (leave out the first principal note).
>Thus a quarter note with a turn directly over it would be played as five
>even sixtee th notes played in one count. HOWEVER, if the turn sign is not
>directly over the principal note, but slightly to the right of it, it in-
>dicates that the last four notes of the turn should be played in the time
>value of the first. Thus a quarter note with the turn sign slightly to the
>right of it would be played as an eighth note followed by four thirty-
>second notes.
This also varies. One of my teachers insisted that it should be a dotted
eighth followed by four sixty-fourths--she said it had more vitality that
way. I might use either, or indeed five equal notes, depending on the
context.
> Turns, although not too frequently encountered, are really
>not that difficult to learn.
Agreed. It's nothing to be afraid of!
Alex.
LMSGRS
Hey Daniel!
Keep up the great work. I have tried the Pathetique and practicing in
"rhythms" (i.e. dotted eigth then sixteenth for the whole thing then
reverse it, etc.) REALLY helps speed things up. E-mail me back if this
does not make sense. And I know what you mean about traveling for work,
but I seem to usually find a piano at the hotels and they usually let me
play in the morning (early).
Regards! Gail