My neighbors are complaining about my piano playing.
FreddyFoobar
I live in an apartment, and my neighbor directly below me
complains about my piano playing. I play at odd hours, because
I have a job, then I go to the gym, then I come home to play,
so I play late.
I have a digital piano, Yamaha GT1, and so I started to use
my head phones. He still complains about it. Still says
he can hear my piano. So I guess that the vibration or the
force bearing down on the keys is what he's complaining about.
Anyways, what can I put underneath my piano that would dampen
the vibrations that might be transmitted through the floor?
I'm thinking about getting a thick wrestling mat. Anyways,
your feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Bonnie Granat
Platypus
; I have a digital piano, Yamaha GT1, and so I started to use
;my head phones. He still complains about it. Still says
;he can hear my piano. So I guess that the vibration or the
;force bearing down on the keys is what he's complaining about.
> "Bonnie Granat" <bgr...@granatedit.com> wrote
> You want a thick SHAG RUG.
LOL. I had similar thoughts. Also , happy and prosperous 2004 to all.
Pell Nilly
Your wrestling mat idea might be more effective than the following,
which I used in an old house where I lived above another apartment. I
pasted a bunch of cork acoustic tiles to a large slab of cardboard,
then cut a rectangle of carpeting to cover it. Then I lifted the piano
onto the carpeting, which extended perhaps 4 inches beyond the piano
in front and on both sides. Because it was an acoustic piano and was
nearly against a wall, I also stuffed a few old comforters into the
open sections at the back of the piano, to keep sound from traveling
down the wall so easily. I think the piano was still really loud
downstairs. :-( But it was acoustic. Seems like headphones should
take the curse off a digital piano....
Al Stevens
"FreddyFoobar" <freddy...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f0dd3624.03123...@posting.google.com...
> I have a digital piano, Yamaha GT1, and so I started to use
> my head phones. He still complains about it...
> Anyways, what can I put underneath my piano
A new neighbor.
a dog
news:D0HIb.94743$Dt6.2...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
You mean a new neighbor downstairs?
Or put the neighbor under your piano to soften the sound? ;)
Don A. Gilmore
Just keep a gun in the bench and tell them to go to hell.
Don
"FreddyFoobar" <freddy...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f0dd3624.03123...@posting.google.com...
Tjako van Schie
The more heavy the mass, the more it will dampen the contact sound.
In addition: put rubber pads of 5 cm under the legs of your piano to damp
vibrations.
The best would be to install a 'floating' floor, on acoustical tiles covered
with floor parts like underlayment. Make sure you also close any small
openings in your floor with kit.
Regards,
Tjako van Schie
http://www.tjakovanschie.com
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"FreddyFoobar" <freddy...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f0dd3624.03123...@posting.google.com...
Katzelmacher
Al Stevens wrote:
Is there any chance this guy doesn't actually hear the noise from the
piano, but can tell when you are practicing because he hears you walk to
that corner of the room? Or perhaps you make some telltale noises
shifting the bench around as you play. And Then he phones up and
complains about the noise from the piano.
In other words, now that you gave initial cause for complaint by playing
with the speakers on, every noise you make will be the cue for some
response.
Van Bagnol
wrote:
Wedging the old neighbor under the piano may deaden the sound of the
neighbor, making life with a new neighbor replacing him more peaceful.
:-)
Seriously, it's likely that the neighbor is hearing either your pedaling
or the sound of your key strikes. I practice with headphones on my
Roland keyboard late at night after the kids have gone to bed, and my
son can still hear me from his room upstairs. The keyboard is in the
carpeted livingroom on the ground floor of a house with a solid slab
foundation, so it's definitely not from vibration conduction. The slope
of the vaulted ceiling and the thinness of his bedroom door at the top
of the stairs don't help, though, and probably exacerbate the problem.
The sound is much like very heavy raindrops hitting the roof and can be
bothersome.
Van
--
Van Bagnol / v a n at wco dot com / c r l at bagnol dot com
...enjoys - Theatre / Windsurfing / Skydiving / Mountain Biking
...feels - "Parang lumalakad ako sa loob ng paniginip"
...thinks - "An Error is Not a Mistake ... Unless You Refuse to Correct It"
Tom Shaw
TS
"Don A. Gilmore" <eroml...@kc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:sGKIb.196986$Eq1....@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
Al Stevens
"Van Bagnol" <v...@crl.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:van-C5A62B.0...@news03.west.earthlink.net...
> Seriously, it's likely that the neighbor is hearing either your pedaling
> or the sound of your key strikes.
If it was me practicing, the neighbor would hear me saying "gahdam
sumbitch!" and worse all through the night.
Al Stevens
http://www.alstevens.com
Alex Maas
I have been in this situation more than once. A distant neighbor
pounded on my door for playing my piano too loudly at 11:00 A.M in the
morning. Fine. Next time it was for playing too loudly at 1:30 in
the afternoon. Fine. A quick call to the city pointing out several
violations on his property stopped the complaints.
But I also changed my ways--more worried about the effect on the
immediate neighbor who didn't complain. But this is a loud acoustic
piano--a large typical Japanese upright in which volume is subsituted
for tone. To get a really soft tone out of it one has to resort to
using the practice pedal with the soft pedal--too much for some to
bear with the change in harmonics and feel. Or I can resort to my
digital piano.
But playing my digital piano with headphones in the living roomm, with
headphones, I also had complaints from my ..uhhhh......own house. I
was unaware the sound of the keys could actually bother anyone. I
moved the digital to another room where I can close the door and this
is not a problem.
Perhaps your digital piano is underneath the room where this person
sleeps. Moving the piano to another room might take care of the
problem--if you have the room. It sounds like your ceiling is very
thin. The sound of the keys is not loud compared to hammering or
something, but I guess it is loud enough in some situations.
Good luck.
Alex Maas
FreddyFoobar
Thanks for the suggestions. If you have more, please post them.
I have a question for you. What are acoustical tiles? Can I just
rest each foot of the piano on top of a 1-3 tiles, and that would work?
Right now, I cut out a workout mat (not a wrestling mat), and have a
couple of cork boards, and placed the feet on that. He still says
he can hear the piano.
Then I ask him, "Well what do you hear? Do you hear thuds? What?"
See I need to know what it is that he hears so I can try to find a good
solution.
But all he responds is, "I can just hear it."
So I'm beginning to think that he can't hear my piano, but just my feet
shuffling, or when I adjust the bench. Because if that were the case,
I'd tell him to go to hell, because it would be like asking me to not
pace in my own apartment. Or he may be a light sleeper.
If he told me that perhaps it was my pedaling, that would be good too,
then I can just practice pieces without the pedal, which is better than
nothing! I can practice with the pedal when I find the time during the
day.
I'm just annoyed that I have gone -I believe- more than half way by
buying a good headphones (Sennheiser -awesome), and putting dampening
material underneath my piano feet, and he hasn't -as far as I know- done
anything but complain.
Wayne Fulton
>Then I ask him, "Well what do you hear? Do you hear thuds? What?"
>See I need to know what it is that he hears so I can try to find a good
>solution.
>
>But all he responds is, "I can just hear it."
If it might be practical, invite him up, show him your setup, point out
your headphones, pay a silent tune for him, and ask if he can point out
which sound he hears? (for the purpose of correcting it)
I wondered if you might be tapping your foot?
meowka
> See I need to know what it is that he hears so I can try to find a good
> solution.
>
> But all he responds is, "I can just hear it."
Since the neighbor is unable (or unwilling) to give you a specific
answer, I'd guess that he's just trying to be a jerk. If you are
using a digital piano, and using headphones, I'm not sure what exactly
he could hear, except maybe the pedaling and bench. I, too, used a
digital piano with pedals and with headphones in a second floor
apartment for nearly a year (before I moved) and never had a single
complaint from my downstairs neighbor.
I dunno. I would probably ask him again to be more specific about
what he's hearing, and like you said, that way you can address the
actual problem instead of driving yourself crazy trying a million
things to make him happy. The apartment is about YOUR happiness, too,
after all. And it's not like you're playing it 24-7. Perhaps you
could work out a time with him that he would not mind hearing the
noise, and practice then. Or ask him if you could come into his
apartment and listen while you have a friend stay in your apartment
and try various "experiments" with your piano (play the keys, with and
without headphones, depress the pedals, shift the bench, etc.) to help
you pinpoint it. Surely, if Neighbor Guy is truly disturbed by the
noise, he will cooperate in finding a solution. It may even help to
have the landlord or leasing office manager present during the
experiments as well.
Good luck and keep us posted on what happens.
Al Stevens
> Hello all.
>
> Thanks for the suggestions. If you have more, please post them.
This neighbor is starting to piss me off. Try this. Give him your telephone
number. Tell him the next time he hears you playing to call you immediately.
Wait a day or two before playing. Assuming he's home, if he doesn't call the
next time you start playing he's just looking for something to gripe about.
In which case, ignore him. If he does call, then there's some kind of
problem.
Hmm. I wonder if your keyboard is sending out RFI and he's picking you up in
his pacemaker, doorbell or electric toothbrush. Just joking, just joking.
Al Stevens
http://www.alstevens.com
Gary Rimar
As a corallary to this, you could do the phone thing here, and then move to
the piano, and instead of playing it simply sit there. If he calls, then
you can call him a jerk.
I just moved into a new place, bought the first grand piano I have had in a
long time, and have a noise issue with my next door neighbor. Up and down
can't hear me, but the side neighbor (I only have one) can, and she is
annoyed. The woman that lives above me is an architect, and she told me
that it is impossible to sound insulate these units. I am working out
practice times with the neighbor, and that will have to do.
I do have the advantage of being able to play my keyboard (which is far
enough away that she can't hear it even without headphones), but I do like
to play my wood piano now and again (I bought a piano, not furniture).
If we can't come to an accomodation on the time stuff, then I will have a
friend come over and play while I'm in her unit, and I'll see if I spend the
money to put soundproofing in or on the walls (big expensive project I want
to avoid).
Gary
gregpresley
over to play your piano, while you go downstairs to hear whatever it is that
your neighbor hears. Then you will be in a better position to judge the
level of noise.
Al Stevens
"gregpresley" <gpre...@iea.com> wrote in message
news:bt61db$3jl0c$1...@ID-153412.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Freddy, the solution is to have a friend of yours who plays the piano come
> over to play your piano, while you go downstairs to hear whatever it is
that
> your neighbor hears. Then you will be in a better position to judge the
> level of noise.
Or just tell the neighbor that a friend is about to play your piano, which,
of course, is not about to happen. You can pretend to stand by on your cell
phone to monitor the situation. When he says, "Ahah, there it is," you can
tell him that what he is really hearing is his ear wax congealing or
something.
Mizz Marcia Ryder
"FreddyFoobar" wrote :
> Hello all.
>
<snip>
> So I'm beginning to think that he can't hear my piano, but just my feet
> shuffling, or when I adjust the bench. Because if that were the case,
> I'd tell him to go to hell, because it would be like asking me to not
> pace in my own apartment. Or he may be a light sleeper.
>
addressed: your pedaling technique. I have often seen men with
long legs adapt a technique where they pedal with a large motion
from the knee. This caused stomping or, in extreme cases,
kicking the pedal. From an upper apartement this could be quite
noisy. Like another poster said, just walking across the floor in
places like this sounds like you're rearranging the furniture.
Explore the possibility that your pedal technique is the issue.
You should have the piano at a height and your bench at a
distance from the keyboard where you can rest your foot
on the pedal with your heel stationary on the floor. Then
the pedal is depressed with the ball of your foot and very
slight movement. In fact, a good position is to have both
feet resting on the two outer pedals and both heels on the
floor.
> I'm just annoyed that I have gone -I believe- more than half way by
> buying a good headphones (Sennheiser -awesome), and putting dampening
> material underneath my piano feet, and he hasn't -as far as I know- done
> anything but complain.
Then again, the guy could just be a jerk or an otherwise
nice person with tinnitus. It could be an electronic sound that
he can hear and not really realize what it is except that it occurs
when you're playing. People with severe tinnitus can react rather
oddly to those type noises (like the hum of a table lamp).
H. Emmerson Meyers
bizarre!!
"Bonnie Granat" <bgr...@granatedit.com> wrote in message
news:3ff2...@andromeda.5sc.net...
Tom Shaw
sounds from the action of the instrument. In any case I agree it is totally
bizarre.
TS
"H. Emmerson Meyers" <vkr...@starpower.net> wrote in message
news:4019b949$0$18413$61fe...@news.rcn.com...
H. Emmerson Meyers
high the fingers and wacking the keys a la Hanon?
"Tom Shaw" <a000...@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:bve30a$7...@library2.airnews.net...
Jon H
the top.
JH
"H. Emmerson Meyers" <vkr...@starpower.net> wrote in message
news:4019b949$0$18413$61fe...@news.rcn.com...
Van Bagnol
freddy...@hotmail.com (FreddyFoobar) wrote:
> But all he responds is, "I can just hear it."
>
> So I'm beginning to think that he can't hear my piano, but just my feet
> shuffling, or when I adjust the bench. Because if that were the case,
> I'd tell him to go to hell, because it would be like asking me to not
> pace in my own apartment. Or he may be a light sleeper.
> If he told me that perhaps it was my pedaling, that would be good too,
[...]
> I'm just annoyed that I have gone -I believe- more than half way by
> buying a good headphones (Sennheiser -awesome), and putting dampening
> material underneath my piano feet, and he hasn't -as far as I know- done
> anything but complain.
Freddy, from the steps you have taken, you've done more than enough.
Document to the landlord/building manager that you have taken measures
to limit the sound, including your inquiries at the police department
and city hall, the conversations you've had including affadavits from
the other, friendlier, neighbors and your friend who came along to check
the sound, pictures of your insulating mats, and a camcorder tape of
your headphone practice. (Maybe have someone near the camera give a nice
loud voiceover as you play silently, to compare the playing with human
conversation.) Perhaps even request a visit from the landlord/manager to
demonstrate what you've done.
Then forget about the putz.
Being kind to him may possibly have been interpreted as weakness, and
he's subliminally trying to get you to capitulate. So why not, tell him
to go to hell. You'll feel better.
You've done more than your share and you don't have to go on trying to
please this person. If he takes any action, you (and the landlord) can
whip out your documentation showing your good faith. But honestly, it
seems your neighbor is making more noise than you are.
PSmith9626
I actually had a neighbor who objected strongly to Beethoven--he was a rock and
roll head.
I had only played Fur Elise and Moonlight Sonata four hundred times.....
best
penny
Neighbors---got to love em?
james
PSmith9626 <psmit...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>Dear jon,
>I actually had a neighbor who objected strongly to Beethoven--he was a rock and
>roll head.
I've known people to reject composers' entire opus on the basis of their
political ideology. Especially Wagner, which is pretty obvious, but
others also. What's interesting about it, is that you'd have to be
fairly educated on politics and history as well as music history in
order to know enough to reject some of these guys! Pfizner for being a
nazi? Schoenberg for being a communist? Odd that supposedly educated
people can also have closed minds.
Tom Shaw
TS
"james" <fish...@conservatory.com> wrote in message
news:sb8Ub.14385$fD.3199@fed1read02...
Lin gus
and he still complains
"H. Emmerson Meyers" <vkr...@starpower.net> wrote in message
news:4019b949$0$18413$61fe...@news.rcn.com...
PSmith9626
Buy a conga drum. PRactice santaria and Vodun music and chants. Soon, he will
be happy that you play piano.
If not, he may have to contend with the curse of Baron S.
best
penny
occupant
> news:4019b949$0$18413$61fe...@news.rcn.com...
> > How can he possibly hear it if you are wearing head phones?? That is
> > bizarre!!
> >
> > "Bonnie Granat" <bgr...@granatedit.com> wrote in message
> > news:3ff2...@andromeda.5sc.net...
> > > FreddyFoobar wrote:
> > > > Hello Readers.
> > > >
> > > > I live in an apartment, and my neighbor directly below me
> > > > complains about my piano playing. I play at odd hours, because
> > > > I have a job, then I go to the gym, then I come home to play,
> > > > so I play late.
When you say you play late, it probably means after midnight. Even
walking on the floor can irritate some people. It is always legal to
play the radio or tv at any hour at a moderate level. Doing so will
muffle/hide/ or eliminate the acoustical sounds of your playing I
suspect. In other words your neighbour needs to hear a legal sound such
as a low tv or radio where he has no grounds to complain.
You also may be surprised if you turn on a tape recorder such as your
tape deck and record (place a mike in the middle of the room on the
floor) your playing through a headset at 2:00 a.m. You may find you
are producing significant acoustical sounds you are not aware of such as
the heel of your foot on the floor moving about etc. as you play,
tapping the beat, etc. - at 2:00 a.m. This why a radio/tv playing in
the background is so important after 10:00 p.m. no matter what
activities you are involved in.
> > > > Anyways, what can I put underneath my piano that would dampen
> > > > the vibrations that might be transmitted through the floor?
My all-time favourite is concrete blocks. They are a dream sound
barrier and dirt cheap.
You may wish to create a platform for you and your piano out of concrete
blocks - but I again, I don't think that is the problem. The problem is
no background sounds to muffle.
Michael Sayers
impacts from deadlift bars in gyms, on the floor. One has to do
calculations based on various aspects of the project to figure out an
exact depth, and one has to know what the engineering properties of
the padding are as they relate to this application - or, one can use
trial and error, and add padding until the result satisfies the
neighbors.
Assemble the piano onto the pad.
Position a 2 x 4 under each leg, which will distribute the weight and
vibration load into the pad over a larger area.
Weight applies a load both vertically, and horizontally......and the
depth of the padding provides depth for the load distribution, and
there should not be any significant sympathetic resonance to the piano
vibrations in that type of padding. The 2 x 4 s provide an
immediately very wide horizontal distribution of the load. In static
placement, the load will be evenly distributed from all points of the
2 x 4s, into the pad - an improvement over just having the piano legs
(or wheels) bear down into the pad (but, I'll let you do the equations
to find out how big the improvement is). The distribution level
increases, in exact proportions to the length of the 2 x 4s which you
obtain.
For what you are trying to do, you want to aim for length of
distribution and use 2 x 4s, and not use anything that would still
keep the distribution concentrated.
FYI, my father is presently the head mechanical engineer for an
Italian engineering firm, which has head quarters in the U.S.
Some decades ago, he worked on the jet engines for the SR-71, which
are designed to operate at three times the speed of sound, and also at
high altitudes.
Some persons, who just want to argue, may question I or my father's
expertise. Those persons don't deserve any consideration, and should
just be ignored.
lutonomy
practice with headphones on a digital piano, the sound of the action was
always astonishingly loud - and much more aggravating to listen to than
someone playing. Add to the fact that certain spots in an apartment can
make things sound like they're in the same room because of ventilation or
something.
--
L U T O N O M Y
"occupant" <electronicm...@telus.net> wrote in message
news:415F2182...@telus.net...
John Cisarik
and vibration of machinery. They are of rubber and look very much like small
waffles; unfortunately, I cannot find the specification sheet that came with
them which includes the manufacturer's name and describes their
sound-deadening properties.
Although I have had them for several years, I have never had to use them. My
present neighbors have a piano themselves, and are not bothered by my
playing.
Michael Sayers
Are the pads designed to dampen mechanical vibrations when in contact
with a vibrating object, or acoustic vibrations in the air?
If they dampen mechanical vibrations, are they compressed around
joints, intersections and piping (et c.), or do they work off of
bearing a weighted load?
If you can identify the manufacturer of the pad, I can look up the
specifications for that manufacturer's pads.
Is there any logo or trademark impressed anywhere on the pads?
I might be interested in buying these from you. But I want to find
out the design and material specifications, so that I can be sure they
are what is going to be needed, prior to making any commitment.
If you can email me a .jpg image of one of the pads, I can then email
the .jpg to my father, who will most likely be able to identify the
product for us - if not the manufacturer, then at least the nature of
the product, and what it is designed for.
Whether they are for sell or not, you might find it interesting to
know exactly what they are.
It is possible, of course, that they aren't all the same product.
John Cisarik
"Michael Sayers" <mjs1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:219226cd.0410...@posting.google.com...
I will look around the apartment for the manufacturer's specification sheet;
I came across it by accident recently, so I know it's here somewhere. It may
take a while.
They are made to bear the weight of machinery, and I suppose that the
waffle-like construction tends somehow to absorb some of the sound
vibrations. I think the specifications would explain their use better than I
can.
I worked for a research institute for 13 years, and one of our laboratories
did acoustical testing. When I contacted the head of that lab, he put me in
touch with the manufacturer of these pads, and the manufacturer sent me a
small number of them free of charge.
John Cisarik
and vibration in industrial settings.
The pads are Mason Super W Pads, made by Mason Industries, Inc., with
locations in New York and Los Angeles.
The standard size consists of nine "waffles" by nine, and measures 18 in. by
18 in. by 3/4 in. (457 mm by 457 mm by 19 mm), and they can be cut into
individual "waffle"-shaped squares of 2 in. by 2 in. by 3/4 in. (51 mm by 51
mm by 19 mm).
The specifications say: "Pads can be used to reduce noise, high frequency
vibration and impact from typical machines...."
Although the pads are intended for industrial applications, I was told that
they could be used to muffle the sound that would otherwise be transmitted
downward by a piano.
Cy Shuster
which allegedly cuts the volume in half. I haven't tried them. Try
contacting them here for info:
http://www.angelfire.com/biz6/afinetune/edstrcvr.html
--Cy--