Why differences in NY/Hamburg Steinway?
Wearn Chong
a NY and a Hamburg Steinway. Why does Steinway have 2 factories? Are there
any economic factors for this or simply because they never bothered to
shut one down? Which factory is older?
A more controversial question is whether there are any differences in
quality between the two. Someone emailed me once saying that the Hamburg
Steinways are better. Any validity to this claim?
Thanks.
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John Chong - wcc...@mfs04.cc.monash.edu.au Voice: +61 3 543 8914
- cwc...@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au
David Derham School of Law
"My words are my own." Monash University, Australia
-------
Robert Snyder
(Wearn Chong) writes:
>
>It was interesting to follow the thread on the visual differences between
>a NY and a Hamburg Steinway. Why does Steinway have 2 factories? Are there
>any economic factors for this or simply because they never bothered to
>shut one down? Which factory is older?
>
Steinway has two factories because they can't meet the world wide market with
just one - bacause of the methods and time required for manufacture. Steinway
was founded in New York in 1853; the Hamburg factory came almost 30 years later.
It is an US company, building US designed pianos. The president of Steinway and
Sons is responsible for both factories..... there is no separation at the
ownership or top management (executive) level.
>A more controversial question is whether there are any differences in
>quality between the two. Someone emailed me once saying that the Hamburg
>Steinways are better. Any validity to this claim?
>
If you sent out two posts - one saying: "If you believe that the NY
Steinway is superior, please reply" and the other saying "If you
believe that the Hamburg Steinway is superior, please reply" you'd get
plenty of responses to both. It's a matter of preference; both
factories share the same philosophy and commitment - there are some
differences in material and design based upon the differences in the
markets. So - there is not so much a difference in quality as there is
a difference in personality.
One interesting thing to note, though, is that Steinway Hall in New
York has a Concert and Artist basement where a large number of concert
grands are serviced and kept available for performing artists.
Included in that number are some concert grands which were build in
Hamburg. The HUGE majority of artists select NY built instruments upon
which to perform.
Bob S.
L.A.T.Bauerdick
>One interesting thing to note, though, is that Steinway Hall in New
>York has a Concert and Artist basement where a large number of concert
>grands are serviced and kept available for performing artists.
>Included in that number are some concert grands which were build in
>Hamburg. The HUGE majority of artists select NY built instruments upon
>which to perform.
>
>Bob S.
Hmmm, here at Hamburg they told me differently, when I was visiting the
Hamburg factory. Anyway, for shure the NY and HH types sound very
differently, which according to the Steinway technician I spoke to is ONLY
due to the different intonation of the instruments, which follows from what
the company thinks is the preferred taste of American vs. European (and the
rest of the world) customers.
I could convince myself when visiting Steinway hall in NYC. For example the B
sounded a lot sharper with less darkness (and I thought with less possibility
to shape and change the tone) compared to the ones I tried at Hamburg.
According to the HH technician there is one important difference: in Hamburg
a worker comes to Steinway at the age of, say, 16 and leaves at the age of
65. In NY he or she comes, and leaves after two years to work for a company
that, say, fabricates shoes, and pays him or her better.
Cheers, LatB
Robert Snyder
>
>
>Hmmm, here at Hamburg they told me differently, when I was visiting the
>Hamburg factory. Anyway, for shure the NY and HH types sound very
>differently, which according to the Steinway technician I spoke to is ONLY
>due to the different intonation of the instruments, which follows from what
>the company thinks is the preferred taste of American vs. European (and the
>rest of the world) customers.
>
activities (worldwide, by the way) and ask him yourself. His name is Peter
Goodrich. His phone number is 212-246-1100. I had dinner with him this evening
in Portland, Oregon - - so if you have more current information than do I, you
must be a time traveler.
>I could convince myself when visiting Steinway hall in NYC. For example the B
>sounded a lot sharper with less darkness (and I thought with less possibility
>to shape and change the tone) compared to the ones I tried at Hamburg.
>
That's your opinion - which is no more or less valid than other folks who come
down on the other side of the fence.
>According to the HH technician there is one important difference: in
Hamburg
>a worker comes to Steinway at the age of, say, 16 and leaves at the
age of
>65. In NY he or she comes, and leaves after two years to work for a
company
>that, say, fabricates shoes, and pays him or her better.
That's a crock. Your post had some merit until that last paragraph.
You've clearly never been to the NY factory. If you had, you'd have
met literally hundreds of people who have spent many, many years at
that factory. I took my first Steinway factory tour about 13 years
ago. I took my most recent tour a few months ago. A great many of the
folks I encountered during that first tour are still there. Again -
don't take my word for it. If you're ever fortunate enough to get to
the NY factory, make sure you ask about the people in the most
significant positions as it relates to musical / technical skill. Ask
how many of them have been honored as 20+ year employees. The facts (if
you have any interest in them) will confirm the longevity of many of
Steinway's craftsmen.
Bob S.
John Yeung
better instrument, I'm inclined to think of American and German Steinways
as two different brands!
John
John Musselwhite
>differently, which according to the Steinway technician I spoke to is ONLY
>due to the different intonation of the instruments, which follows from what
The difference in the sound of the NY and Hamburg models is mostly due to the
woods used in the rims and the action parts and geometry. The Hamburg pianos
use red beech and mahogany for the rim, whereas the NY rims are bent from hard
maple. The American pianos are also equipped with the "Accelerated Action"
which is about 5%-7% faster in response than the older design used in Hamburg.
>According to the HH technician there is one important difference: in Hamburg
>a worker comes to Steinway at the age of, say, 16 and leaves at the age of
>65. In NY he or she comes, and leaves after two years to work for a company
>that, say, fabricates shoes, and pays him or her better.
You will find in the U.S. that apprenticeship programs such as you describe
are almost unheard of in any profession. Despite that, there are a lot of
workers at the Long Island factory who have been there for many years and even
some second-generation workers... people who have devoted their lives to the
piano. I particularly remember Joe Bisceglie, who began as an elevator boy
during the 1930s and worked his way up to Senior Factory Technical Manager. If
I recall, that position is now held by Michael Mohr, son of Franz Mohr, the
head of the Concert & Artist department and personal piano technician for
Horowitz. The traditions the Hamburg technician related to you are not limited
to that factory alone.
--
John Musselwhite, RPT Calgary, Alberta Canada
mus...@cadvision.com sy...@67.cambo.cuug.ab.ca
mpel...@eciad.bc.ca
: head of the Concert & Artist department and personal piano technician for
: Horowitz. The traditions the Hamburg technician related to you are not limited
: to that factory alone.
: John Musselwhite, RPT Calgary, Alberta Canada
: mus...@cadvision.com sy...@67.cambo.cuug.ab.ca
Mr. Mohr! His son has taken over! Wow. He was here (in Vancouver Canada)
a few months ago. He gave a lecture and I attended. He was great fun! A
terrific guy with a real passion for Steinway. He has some great stories
about Horowitz. According to him, Horowitz never practiced, EVERY! (he
said to us while yelling. =)
-marc
Chris Winkler - Test Engineering
>Mr. Mohr! His son has taken over! Wow. He was here (in Vancouver Canada)
>a few months ago. He gave a lecture and I attended. He was great fun! A
>terrific guy with a real passion for Steinway. He has some great stories
>about Horowitz. According to him, Horowitz never practiced, EVERY! (he
>said to us while yelling. =)
>
> -marc
>
>
Its amazing what silly stories get perpetuated. Although I don't remember much
about the interviews with Horowitz that were on TV a few years ago I do remember
that in Horowitz's declining years he practiced about 1.5 hrs/day, this was when
when he was not concertizing. If you have listened to the tape/video of Horowitz`s
last or very late concert in Moscow you will notice that his playing was no where
near as good as in earlier years. I personally would attribute this to only
1.5 hrs of practice a day. Draw your own conclusions but don't think that
Horowitz NEVER practiced.
Chris
John Musselwhite
>: I recall, that position is now held by Michael Mohr, son of Franz Mohr, the
>Mr. Mohr! His son has taken over! Wow. He was here (in Vancouver Canada)
>a few months ago. He gave a lecture and I attended. He was great fun! A
Franz is a fascinating person and gives very good lectures. I've heard
him speak many times. If you look for a book called "The Lives of the
Piano" edited by James R. Gaines (ISBN 0-03-057974-0) there is a
wonderful illustrated biography of Mr. Mohr in it as well as other
articles celebrating a history and genealogy of pianos and their friends.
--
mpel...@eciad.bc.ca
: >said to us while yelling. =)
: >
: > -marc
: Its amazing what silly stories get perpetuated. Although I don't remember much
: about the interviews with Horowitz that were on TV a few years ago I do remember
: that in Horowitz's declining years he practiced about 1.5 hrs/day, this was when
: when he was not concertizing. If you have listened to the tape/video of Horowitz`s
: last or very late concert in Moscow you will notice that his playing was no where
: near as good as in earlier years. I personally would attribute this to only
: 1.5 hrs of practice a day. Draw your own conclusions but don't think that
: Horowitz NEVER practiced.
: Chris
Hi Chris,
I'm drawing no conclusions on Horowitz whatsoever. I was only repeating
what I herd in person with my own two ears from the mouth of Horowitz's
personal technician of 25 years, Mr. Franz Mohr. Incidentally he would
probably still be Horowitz's technician today if Horowits had not died.
-marc
mpel...@eciad.bc.ca
: >Mr. Mohr! His son has taken over! Wow. He was here (in Vancouver Canada)
: >a few months ago. He gave a lecture and I attended. He was great fun! A
: Franz is a fascinating person and gives very good lectures. I've heard
: him speak many times. If you look for a book called "The Lives of the
: Piano" edited by James R. Gaines (ISBN 0-03-057974-0) there is a
: wonderful illustrated biography of Mr. Mohr in it as well as other
: articles celebrating a history and genealogy of pianos and their friends.
: John Musselwhite, RPT Calgary, Alberta Canada
: mus...@cadvision.com sy...@67.cambo.cuug.ab.ca
Mr. Mohr Himself has also written a book! I do not remember the exact
title, but it came out just as (or after) he retired.
-marc