Fingerings for Mark Levine's scale exercises?
Tonuke
Like everything Mark Levine presents in his two books (The Jazz Theory Book and
The Jazz Piano Book), his suggestions regarding scale practice make a lot of
sense. But before I get them under my fingers, I want to make sure I'm doing
them with the right fingerings, and would appreciate any insight.( BTW, I know
that scales are not music, etc., etc., and am treating them as means, not
ends.)
Briefly, he suggests that students practice up one mode to the 9th, which then
becomes the root of the next mode to practice down, then up the next, etc. in a
continuous manner, so that the notes in C would go:
up the aolian: c,d,e,f,g,a,b,c,d,
down the dorian: c,b,a,g,f,e,d,
up the phrygian: e,f,g,a,b,c,d,e,f,
down the lydian: e,d,c,b,a,g,f,
up the mixolydian: g,a,b,c,d,e,f,g,a,
down the I forget right now: g,f,e,d,c,b,a,
up the locrian: b,c,d,e,f,g,a,b,c,
down the aolian: b,a,g,f,e,d,c
Then you reverse the whole thing, start down the aolian, etc.
For the fingerings, he says to use Hanon fingerings, which I think are the
standard scale fingerings which I know in all keys, but am not positive, and
don't want to burn this into my muscle memory until I'm sure. The only point of
confusion is at a scale like c lydian, going from e to e. In his continuous
model, the fingering would be:
e-3, f-1, g-2, a-3, b-4, c-1, d-2, c-3, which naturally comes about through
applying the standard fingering for c major from e to e, and so makes sense in
this context. First, am I doing and understanding this right? And second, no
one would ever do a real-life e to e all-white-key run using the awkward
fingering above, right? So I should just consider this a practice anomoly, and
be ready to break awkward fingering rules when necessary, right?
Thanks for any help you can give me. I think by writing this I've convinced
myself of the answer, but do still want to know I'm practicing the right way.
Neil
ton...@aol.com
Almida
Neil,
Your a little confused about things (which is very normal if your learning from
a book).
First off your scale mode names are not quite right.
Secondly I don't believe this excercise is intended to learn modes. It is
intended to get you to start the major scale, in either direction, from every
note of the scale. So you are correct in saying that the e "phygian" scale may
not start with the 3rd finger or maybe it could! I think it depends on the key
how differently you finger different modes. But again this is not the point.
Your are learning the major scale! Mark is trying to get you to stick to the
major scale fingering as you change direction. This is just a more "focused"
way of practicing scales.
Good luck
mitch
Mike Holme
(snip)
Just on a related issue. I'm currently learning all scales major and
minor using the C major fingering for everything. This is to improve
technique and it makes normal fingering seems easier. It also comes in
handy when sight reading if you find yourself using less than ideal
fingers.
Anyway, having watched a couple of Jazz pianist play, I got the
impression that they where probably able to do the same thing
themselves. I'm not a Jazz pianist, but I'm feel sure that you'd need
to use some arkward fingers if you suddenly leaped into a riff that was
in a key you hadn't nessasarily played that riff in before.
Anyway, I think it is good practise, having learned all scales in the
normal way, contrary motion, 3rd apart, 6th apart, octaves, etc, to also
learn them all with the C major fingering. What do Jazz pianist think of
that comment ?
Mike
Almida
Mike,
My feeling is we already put too much emphasis in fingering. The notes to be
played to make real music have to wait till we practice all these excercises.
I've done it too. Hanon in all 12 keys! I am now doing alot of playing with 1
finger. Classical and Jazz. Tempo's are slower but the music is there.
Mitch
Richard Hofheimer
I heard somewhere that Liszt practiced all scales using the C major
fingering. You're in good company.
>Mike Holme wrote
>(snip)
>
>Just on a related issue. I'm currently learning all scales major and
>minor using the C major fingering for everything. This is to improve
>technique and it makes normal fingering seems easier. It also comes in
>handy when sight reading if you find yourself using less than ideal
>fingers.
M.H...@doc.mmu.ac.uk
In article <6kn24o$b...@news.microsoft.com>,
"Richard Hofheimer" <NOSPAM_...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> I heard somewhere that Liszt practiced all scales using the C major
> fingering. You're in good company.
Well you've walked straight into this so allow me to indulge myself.
As it happens my teachers' teacher was taught by a student of Liszt. I've just
started lessons with her, her name is Eva Warren and she rules.
Of course this means that even after just one lesson with her (which is the
current count) I'm an unquestionably good pianist, I must be with such
a tree, mustn't I ???????????? Or at least I'm going to be, aren't I ? WELL
AREN'T I GOD DAMN IT ?
;)
True,
Mike Holme
> >Mike Holme wrote
> >(snip)
> >
> >Just on a related issue. I'm currently learning all scales major and
> >minor using the C major fingering for everything. This is to improve
> >technique and it makes normal fingering seems easier. It also comes in
> >handy when sight reading if you find yourself using less than ideal
> >fingers.
> > (snip)
>
>
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James Clayton
A general idea for fingerings...
Although I learned the "conservatory" fingerings as a kid, I've since
switched to practicing a fingering idea suggested by a former prof,
Brian Harris at Humber College in Toronto. (I don't know where he
learned it.)
Basically, always have your fourth finger (on both hands) land on a
black note. If you try it, you'll realize this means you'll finger every
mode of a key the same way... that is, the same fingers will land on the
corresponding keys in C Major as in D Dorian, E Phrygian, etcetera.
It also applies to minor modes, and it definitely simplifies finding a
fingering for altered scales.
Jim C.
Tonuke
Hmmm. I tried d major and e major with 4th finger landing on black keys, and am
sure I'm not understanding something:
d major would be fingered: 12412345
e major: 145....
Sounds interesting, but tfor me more background is needed, if you wouldn't
mind.
Neil
ton...@aol.com
><HTML><PRE>A general idea for fingerings...
>Subject: Re: Fingerings for Mark Levine's scale exercises?
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James Clayton
Tonuke wrote:
>
> Hmmm. I tried d major and e major with 4th finger landing on black keys, and am
> sure I'm not understanding something:
>
> d major would be fingered: 12412345
> e major: 145....
>
> Sounds interesting, but tfor me more background is needed, if you wouldn't
> mind.
No problem. You still need to use consecutive fingers... this system
will often change the finger you START with. So, D Major (right hand,
ascending) would be fingered:
2 3 4 1 2 3 4 (5/1)
D E F# G A B C# D
Left hand, ascending:
2 1 4 3 2 1 3 (2)
D E F# G A B C# D
The 5/1 means 5 if you're stopping and going back down, and 1 if you're
continuing upwards. Lef hand would be (2) regardless.
E Major would be treated normally (that is, the C Major fingering in
both hands) since both fourth fingers land on black notes anyhow.
You'll find that this system often means that the right hand is fingered
the way you've always done it, while the left hand fingering is changed.
Now, back to D Major: Look at the 2nd mode, E Dorian, using the same
system:
Right hand:
3 4 1 2 3 4 1 (2)
E F# G A B C# D E
Left hand:
(1/5) 4 3 2 1 3 2 (1)
E F# G A B C# D E
The same fingers land on each note; only the starting point changes. In
practical terms, this means that when you play through the common 2-5-1
progression, where each chord calls for a different mode of the same
major scale, the fingerings are the "same" on each. In a 2-5-1 in D
Major (E minor/dorian, A seven/mixolydian, D major/ionian) our third
finger would be on E in all three cases, and our fourth finger on the
F#, and so on.
I found the suggestion of using the C Major fingering on all scales
interesting but not applicable in real-world terms. In all my playing
(jazz, pop, a limited amount of baroque and classical), the only time
I've absolutely HAD to put my thumb on a black note was in Clifford
Brown's tune "Daahoud". I suspect he wrote in on his main instrument,
trumpet, and thus didn't worry about a piano fingering. (Amazingly,
Oscar Peterson recorded the melody with the left hand doubling the right
an octave down. Although in Oscar's league, that's probably no big
deal.)
Jim C.
Almida
Jim,
What happens if you continue up the D scale (right hand)? It seems you have to
play D with the 1st finger then E with 3rd finger to get to F# with 4th
finger. Is this right?
2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 3 4
D E F# G A B C# D E F#
If this is true, I don't see the point.
Mitch