Van Koevering Interactive Pianos
apoplexy
I would like to get the kids started with piano lessons (ages 9, 6 and
4) and from what I have read a digital piano may be a good starting
point. More specifically, I have read that the Van Koevering vip 1950
is a great starting tool for novices. The baby grand look is also
what my wife and I are looking for. I am considering a possible
purchase of a vk vip 1950 ebony baby grand for approximately $4200.
This is the latest VK model. It is more modular and uses more "off
the shelf" technology. This unit runs on Windows 98. And has all of
the bells and whistles and is in excellent shape.
Are these VKs any good? Are there many bugs to deal with? Does this
seem to be a reasonable price? etc..... Please post your
experience with the vk
Thanks in advance
M. Slater
Mark
Larry
>
>
No, it is the product of David Van Koevering. Mr. Van Koevering and Bob Moog
introduced synthesizers to the world. Bob had some input with the Van
Koevering. Ray Kurzweil had nothing to do with it.
Larry Fletcher
Pianos Inc
Atlanta GA
Dealer/technician
Doing the work of three men.....Larry, Curly, & Moe
Want to visit another piano related messageboard? Go to the piano discussion
group on my website:
impy
Don't forget Milton Babbit too wasn't he the first exponent of synthesized
music (if I remember correctly).
"Larry" <larryin...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20020607015047...@mb-de.aol.com...
Larry
>music (if I remember correctly).
Babbit is a composer. I was talking about the invention of the instrument. The
first synthesizer was the invention of Bob Moog, and also Don Buchla, who
invented a similar machine at exactly the same time and totally independent of
Moog. Moog was a bit more business savvy, building a line of keyboards. Buchla
had very little business sense, even refusing to allow his invention to be
called a "synthesizer" because he viewed the word as implying something "fake"
- and he wanted his to be viewed as an instrument in its own right, beyond the
limitations of mere instruments.
He did of course, meet with failure in the marketplace, and becaus background
noise to the Moog.
But these are the onces who invented the machines. Babbitt merely utilized them
as instruments.
farty
were Radiodiffusion Francais in Paris and Nordwestdeutscher Rundfunk in
Cologne, two people from Radiodiffusion Francais collaborated with, altered
and rearranged natural sounds. Symphonie pour un homme Seul between 1949-50
which was one of the first electronic works to be heard in public.
Babbit used a unique instrument constructed for RCA by the electronic
engineers Harry Olsen and Hebert Belar and given to Columbia-Princeton
Electronic Music Center in New York, this was the first synthesizer ever
built.
I guess Moog can be credited with the first ("modern") synthesizer as we
know of it today, meaning one set of controls and a keyboard.
Not that I'm into electronic music at all except some of the 1980's stuff.
"Larry" <larryin...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20020607173324...@mb-bd.aol.com...
apoplexy
but can someone please provide their best insight as to the original
question.
While learning of the original developer of the synthesizer is great
it does not do much for me at this point. Again, thanks in advance
for pertinent discussions.
M. Slater
the correction. I was the electronic music instructor in college. Our studio
had a Moog Mark 2 and some wild Scully tape decks. The 60" JBL speakers helped
also. Ray Kurzweil is famous for something else beside keyboard samples.
Optical scanners with speech software was his invention, wasn't it?
>Moog
>> introduced synthesizers to the world. Bob had some input with the Van
>> Koevering. Ray Kurzweil had nothing to do with it.
Mark
M. Slater
"played". The first ones were one track synths. Patch cords and all that.
Tuning the oscillators could drive you nuts. You need a 4 or 8 track tape deck
just to make some kind of music. The record album that got me into this mess
<he he > was Switched On Bach, by Walter Carlos (now called Wendy, Gary).
Mark
M. Slater
>know of it today, meaning one set of controls and a keyboard.
Unless you had 2 Moogs, you couldn't do anything but one voice at a time. This
is impractical in concert. There were no chords, no polyphony, just one voice.
You had to adjust attack and decay, echo and reverb for every voice you used.
Have you every heard of the Ondine Martenot? That was the machine that produced
those "space music" noises in the 50s. Twilight Zone music. There was no
keyboard. The proximity of the hands to the module varied the tones according
to the static interference. Tough instrument to become a virtuoso on.
Mark
Dave Andrews
<< Larry, I just had my first senior moment. I just turned 50, ya know. >>
Same here. Welcome to the "old enough to know better" category, Mark. ;-)
<< Thanks for the correction. I was the electronic music instructor in
college. Our studio had a Moog Mark 2 and some wild Scully tape decks. The 60"
JBL
also. Ray Kurzweil is famous for something else beside keyboard samples.
Optical scanners with speech software was his invention, wasn't it? >>
I had the opportunity to meet Ray Kurzweil back in 1986 or 1987. He was (and
maybe still is) a pioneer in computer A.I. (Artificial Intelligence) and
founded 3 separate companies back in those days. His "Reading Machine" is the
item you are referencing and was the primary product of one of those 3
entrepreneurial efforts. Stevie Wonder was part of the impetus for getting Ray
to turn his talents towards the musical keyboard industry, being a personal
beneficiary of the Reading Machine -- which is how he got to know Ray. Stevie
convinced Ray that there was a huge market for an electronic keyboard that
could more accurately simulate a real piano, and hence, the K-250 was born
(which also used A.I. algorithms -- no relationship to the former VP -- to
produce the sound). It was more than a decade after the introduction of the
250 before any other industry competitors managed to get even near the accuracy
of the 250's piano sound.
I often wonder what we would all be playing had the original Kurzweil Music
Systems remained as a viable totally engineering driven Company in Waltham,
Mass and not a more pragmatic marketing driven corporate machine under Young
Chang ownership. I don't think that Ray was especially fond of waiting for
business revenues to generate R & D funds, and they were perhaps too far out in
front of what the music division could support in sales.
Still, it was a wild ride while it lasted.
--
With All Due Respect,
Dave Andrews
D. W. Andrews Associates
Church Music System Specialists
"Two Hacks Working Out Of A Garage"
Disclaimer: If there are two ways to take my words,
always assume I was after the cheap laugh.
M. Slater
playing them!
Mark
Amir Oren
"M. Slater" <harpsic...@aol.comedy> wrote in message
> Have you every heard of the Ondine Martenot?
Ondes Martenot (waves). OTOH, Ondine is the pen name of RBGirl..
Larry
>you
>"played". The first ones were one track synths. Patch cords and all that.
>Tuning the oscillators could drive you nuts.
Yes, the first ones were monophonic, and required you learn how to program
them. But they certainly *were* playable. If you understood them they were
capable of some pretty wild stuff. Later on Bob did offer many polyphonic
models by the way. They weren't all monophonic - so they *could* play chords.
But Moogs were not sample based, they were pure synthesis, so the sounds they
made were not attempts to accurately reproduce real instruments. That came
later.
By the way - the instrument you described for making the weird sounds for
sci-fi movies and stuff was called a Theremin. Again, Bob Moog was very
influential in this area as well. A good example of one is on the Beach Boys
"Good Vibrations" cut. Current models by Moog are digital, and are capable of
even half step jumps in pitch, not just a portamento slide in pitch all the
time. They will also send MIDI data, so you can trigger synths by just waving
your hands. Truly an amazing machine, but not something that will ever be more
than a novelty item to musicians.
Steve TenEyck
> Have you every heard of the Ondine Martenot? That was the machine that
produced
> those "space music" noises in the 50s. Twilight Zone music. There was no
> keyboard. The proximity of the hands to the module varied the tones
according
> to the static interference. Tough instrument to become a virtuoso on.
Mark, I'm pretty sure you're confusing the Theremin, which is the device whose
playing technique you describe with the Ondes Martenot, which was played
either with a keyboard or a metal ribbon that allowed for glissandi and the
like.
Alex Maas
history of synthesizer production instead. The price seems good--when
they came out I
found the price was thousands more than that. I wrote to them at that
time, and they were very helpful. .
I bought a Yamaha CVP instead. Some people find the Van Koevering
way ahead of the CVP for educational use. The only other digital
pianos I know that emphasizes education are the Rolands. The price
you mentioned is great. Yamaha dealers often try to get $6,000-$7,000
for Yamaha CVPs because of exclusive territories when other dealers
sell the same instruments for $4,000-$5,000.
I have no idea what the Van Koevering sounds like or feels like.
In my opinion, I liked the keyboard feel of the previous generation of
CVPs better than the Rolands. The Rolands sound better. But take
that into consideration.
Take someone with you who at least is experienced in playing a piano
to try out the van Koeverings.
I hope someone jumps in here and tells you all about the van
Koeverings, good or bad.
Good Luck.
Larry
>Koeverings, good or bad.
> Good Luck.
>
Sorry. I got so involved with correcting the errors about who made them that I
forgot to answer the question.
Yes, the Van Koevering is a great instrument. It does things no other keyboard
can. The sounds are awesome, but they are limited to the 128 GM sound set. The
action is great, the sounds are great, the features are great - far superior to
a Clavinova. Reliability is just as good as any other major maker's product. My
only concern is whether or not the company will be there in a year or two. I
know there was a huge financial commitment made to it by some pretty deep
pockets going in, several stupid decisions were made initially by the
management in place at the start flubbed their big kickoff so that eventually
most of the dealers who had picked up the line dropped it (including me) and
they ended up deciding to not try to sell to the public through dealers and
deal directly with colleges and such. This decision was the last stupid move
they made, because it virtually eliminated them from the marketplace.
As for what it will do, there's nothing else on the market that will touch it.
As for whether or not you'll be able to get parts for it a few years from now,
I have no idea. I can only say that given that they stopped selling keyboards
through dealers about 4 years ago, if you've found one at a dealer for sale,
it's very possible that it has been in stock for a very long time, and it may
even be the old operating system. If it's running the original operating
system, it won't run the latest software for it.
Go to http:\\www.vankoevering.com and have a look around.