Yamaha GT 20
Nunatax
I've not been able to play on it yet. One guy is willing to order it
so I can test it :) but it may take a while.
Just have a few questions :
Why did you order it and why did you prefer it above completely
digitals or completely acoustic pianos?
Is the keyboard as good as that of a good acoustic upright?
Is the sound as good as that of a good acoustic upright?
Would a Yamaha CLP-990 be a worthy alternative?
Is €4100 a good price?
Is the polyphony of 32 sufficient?
What does the switch to polyphony 64 do to your sound quality?
Is the sound easily adjustable to the room you are in?
Do you regret buying it and not something else or are you completely
happy with it?
Thanks in advance!
Rgds,
Michiel
pTooner
Well, I don't own one, but I can answer a few of your questions:
> Anyone here who owns a Yamaha GranTouch GT 20?
> I've not been able to play on it yet. One guy is willing to order it
> so I can test it :) but it may take a while.
> Just have a few questions :
> Why did you order it and why did you prefer it above completely
> digitals or completely acoustic pianos?
> Is the keyboard as good as that of a good acoustic upright?
> Is the sound as good as that of a good acoustic upright?
> Would a Yamaha CLP-990 be a worthy alternative?
> Is €4100 a good price?
> Is the polyphony of 32 sufficient?
> What does the switch to polyphony 64 do to your sound quality?
sounding at one time.
> Is the sound easily adjustable to the room you are in?
> Do you regret buying it and not something else or are you completely
> happy with it?
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Rgds,
> Michiel
Nunatax
> Yes
> > Is the sound as good as that of a good acoustic upright?
> No, it's not even as good as a cheap keyboard of the home type.
Kidding, right? :) They have used a Yamaha grand to record the
sound, they recorded it stereo on enough memory. It has fine
speakers. And it's a Yamaha. How can it possibly be that bad? :)
> > What does the switch to polyphony 64 do to your sound quality?
> Nothing to the sound quality, just the number of notes that can be
> sounding at one time.
Then why bother placing the switch? Why not just a standard polyphony
of 64? Doesn't it change something about the stereo aspect?
> > Is the sound easily adjustable to the room you are in?
> Huh??
I mean, with a digital you can change things like brilliance, reverb
etc.
Michiel
Mikeq1139
digitals or completely acoustic pianos? >>
I live in an apartment building, and need to turn my piano down. But, I wanted
a real piano action, because i HATE digital actions. The Grantouch is really
the only choice.
<< Is the keyboard as good as that of a good acoustic upright? >>
I think it's better - double escapement action in particular can't be done on
uprights.
<< Is the sound as good as that of a good acoustic upright? >>
No. It sounds digital. Perhaps with better speakers, and a better amp, it
would sound better. But it's digital; it doens't sound like a real piano.
<< Would a Yamaha CLP-990 be a worthy alternative? >>
Not for me.
<< Is 4100 a good price? >>
Yes.
<< Do you regret buying it and not something else or are you completely
happy with it? >>
I wish I had a Steinway Grand. But I don't have the room, and I'd get kicked
out of my apartment building after about 30 minutes of Prokofiev.
mike
pTooner
>>>Is the keyboard as good as that of a good acoustic upright?
>>
>> Yes
>>
>>>Is the sound as good as that of a good acoustic upright?
>>
>> No, it's not even as good as a cheap keyboard of the home type.
>
>
> Kidding, right? :) They have used a Yamaha grand to record the
> sound, they recorded it stereo on enough memory. It has fine
> speakers. And it's a Yamaha. How can it possibly be that bad? :)
Nunatax
Considering your rather short answer, I hope I did not offend you with
my previous post, I certainly didn't mean to.
Thanks for your info and I'll certainly double check the quality of
the sound.
Rgds,
Michiel
pTooner <nob...@nowhere.net> wrote in message news:<xKd1b.9363$Go4.6634@lakeread01>...
Nunatax
> a real piano action, because i HATE digital actions. The Grantouch is really
> the only choice.
Yes, I know what you mean, digital actions feel so "plasticy" and
"jumpy".
> << Is the keyboard as good as that of a good acoustic upright? >>
>
> I think it's better - double escapement action in particular can't be done on
> uprights.
>
> << Is the sound as good as that of a good acoustic upright? >>
>
> No. It sounds digital. Perhaps with better speakers, and a better amp, it
> would sound better. But it's digital; it doens't sound like a real piano.
>
> << Would a Yamaha CLP-990 be a worthy alternative? >>
> Not for me.
Have you played the CLP 990? If so, what did you think about the
sound compared to the GT 20? Which one sounded best?
I now have an old Roland HP1800e and the sound is not really good, two
speakers facing down in the cabinet. If I play it seems I'm 50 yards
away from the piano... It can't get any worse, can it?
> << Is 4100 a good price? >>
> Yes.
> << Do you regret buying it and not something else or are you completely
> happy with it? >>
> I wish I had a Steinway Grand. But I don't have the room, and I'd get kicked
> out of my apartment building after about 30 minutes of Prokofiev.
I know how it feels not being able to have the instrument of your
dreams. Even the GT 20 will be hard to get because my father doesn't
want polished ebony in his living room, wants me to be able to play
with headphones but he didn't feel the GT 20 was the best compromise
:( And we don't have room for a grand either :(
Anyway, thanks for your answers so far!
Rgds,
Michiel
pTooner
> Hi Gerry,
>
> Considering your rather short answer, I hope I did not offend you with
> my previous post, I certainly didn't mean to.
> Thanks for your info and I'll certainly double check the quality of
> the sound.
yourself. I was expecting great things from this pricey and heavy
device, and I was amazed that they put such a poor sound module in it.
Gerry
Niclas
Cubase with The Grand VST. You put the PC in another room and use
extension cables for the headphones. The GT15 is cheaper than GT20 and
has an even worse piano sound but the touch is still the same.
/Nic
Nunatax
nje...@hotmail.com (Niclas) wrote in message news:<e93a789d.0308...@posting.google.com>...
I can't do that. My father would never approve of cables running
through the house. But, isn't all this possible with an external
sound module?
I have a couple of questions regarding these devices :
What kind of connections do you need on the piano? Midi, AUX?
Can the polyphony be increased without having to use an external
amplifier and external speakers? Someone even told me that it's the
keyboard that can only transmit a polyphony of 64 so that it's
impossible to increase it! I just hope it's only the sound module
that can solve everything.
Could these modules produce a decent piano sound?
If this is all possible then a GT 15 might indeed be sufficient. What
would be a good sound module to make the GT 15 a good sounding piano
with a polyphony of let's say 128?
Mikeq1139
sound compared to the GT 20? Which one sounded best? >>
I played just about everything when I was shopping for my GT-20. Unfortunately
I don't recall the sound of the CLP 990. I got a good set of headphones for
about $150 so that helps the sound out. I honestly don't mind the sound
terribly. I'm not a professional, so I don't really need to worry TOO much
about tone color. But, I do need to be able to play on real pianos, because I
occasionally play for others, or in a concert, with a real piano. I've found
that I'm much better prepared for playing a real piano by practicing on my
GranTouch than on any other digital piano. YMMV.
<< Even the GT 20 will be hard to get because my father doesn't
want polished ebony in his living room, wants me to be able to play
with headphones but he didn't feel the GT 20 was the best compromise
:( >>
What's wrong with polished ebony? And some of the GranTouch line have a wood
finish - maybe you should look into that.
Niclas
> through the house. But, isn't all this possible with an external
> sound module?
Yes. However, the development of piano modules is dead. The best one I
can recommend is Generalmusic's RealPiano Expander which was
introduced in 1997 and discontinued in 2000. Now rather hard to find.
The good thing about this module is that it has some nice acoustic
modelling features which makes it behave more like a real piano.
Detailed information at http://www.af.lu.se/~fogwall/piano.html
> I have a couple of questions regarding these devices :
> What kind of connections do you need on the piano? Midi, AUX?
Midi in/out would be sufficient.
> Can the polyphony be increased without having to use an external
> amplifier and external speakers? Someone even told me that it's the
> keyboard that can only transmit a polyphony of 64 so that it's
> impossible to increase it! I just hope it's only the sound module
> that can solve everything.
The polyphony is limited in the sound processor and can't be
increased. By using an external sound module the polyphony will be set
to whatever that module can deliver. It has nothing to do with the
keyboard itself.
> Could these modules produce a decent piano sound?
It depends of course on what demands you have. If you want the closest
to the real thing I suggest using a computer based solution such as
Steinberg's The Grand VSTi which besides a very large sample memory
also make use of some quite impressing physical modelling features.
But then your father will be upset.. :)
> If this is all possible then a GT 15 might indeed be sufficient. What
> would be a good sound module to make the GT 15 a good sounding piano
> with a polyphony of let's say 128?
The RealPiano Expander and The Grand VST are both limited to 64. There
are however stage pianos that handle from 128 to as much as 320 notes
polyphony.
/Nic
Nunatax
nje...@hotmail.com (Niclas) wrote in message news:<e93a789d.0308...@posting.google.com>...
> Yes. However, the development of piano modules is dead. The best one I
> can recommend is Generalmusic's RealPiano Expander which was
> introduced in 1997 and discontinued in 2000. Now rather hard to find.
> The good thing about this module is that it has some nice acoustic
> modelling features which makes it behave more like a real piano.
> Detailed information at http://www.af.lu.se/~fogwall/piano.html
>
> > I have a couple of questions regarding these devices :
> > What kind of connections do you need on the piano? Midi, AUX?
>
> Midi in/out would be sufficient.
There's just this last bit of suspicion about midi I've got to get rid
of :
My father told me midi information is nothing more than On/Off and
velocity (maybe he was just trying to get my mind of the GT 20 ;)) If
that is true, won't you lose the expressiveness of the sound, the
feeling you put into the music?
I see midi as a simple way to play music on a PC with very
"artificial" sounds without a lot of dynamic variation, I'm most
probably mistaking but that's how I've always known midi.
>
> > Can the polyphony be increased without having to use an external
> > amplifier and external speakers? Someone even told me that it's the
> > keyboard that can only transmit a polyphony of 64 so that it's
> > impossible to increase it! I just hope it's only the sound module
> > that can solve everything.
>
> The polyphony is limited in the sound processor and can't be
> increased. By using an external sound module the polyphony will be set
> to whatever that module can deliver. It has nothing to do with the
> keyboard itself.
That's positive news :)
> > Could these modules produce a decent piano sound?
>
> It depends of course on what demands you have. If you want the closest
> to the real thing I suggest using a computer based solution such as
> Steinberg's The Grand VSTi which besides a very large sample memory
> also make use of some quite impressing physical modelling features.
> But then your father will be upset.. :)
Exactly :)
You spoke of the Generalmusic's module earlier, but how about Roland's
XV-2020 with the SRX-02 as expansion board? Could this device be used
for that purpose?
I do not need the closest to the real thing, I'm not a professional
and playing the piano will always be a hobby. However, my abilities
have increased over the years and I can no longer learn anything new
on my digital Roland and I need a more realistic and preferably an
acoustic keyboard (and headphones). I'll probably buy a GT 20 (since
I just discovered that the GT 15 is no longer available) and add a
sound module (maybe after some time) if the sound is as bad as Gerry
said.
> > If this is all possible then a GT 15 might indeed be sufficient. What
> > would be a good sound module to make the GT 15 a good sounding piano
> > with a polyphony of let's say 128?
>
> The RealPiano Expander and The Grand VST are both limited to 64. There
> are however stage pianos that handle from 128 to as much as 320 notes
> polyphony.
My old Roland has a polyphony of only 24 :) Most of the time I don't
even notice it, but then again I can keep the sustain pedal down
constantly without affecting the music :) I believe that if the
sustain pedal of my Roland would sustain the notes as long as an
acoustic piano it would not be fun to play it...
Rgds,
Michiel
Nunatax
mike...@aol.com (Mikeq1139) wrote in message news:<20030824133145...@mb-m29.aol.com>...
> << Have you played the CLP 990? If so, what did you think about the
> sound compared to the GT 20? Which one sounded best? >>
>
> I played just about everything when I was shopping for my GT-20. Unfortunately
> I don't recall the sound of the CLP 990. I got a good set of headphones for
> about $150 so that helps the sound out. I honestly don't mind the sound
> terribly. I'm not a professional, so I don't really need to worry TOO much
> about tone color. But, I do need to be able to play on real pianos, because I
> occasionally play for others, or in a concert, with a real piano. I've found
> that I'm much better prepared for playing a real piano by practicing on my
> GranTouch than on any other digital piano. YMMV.
A specific tone color is not what I'm looking for either. But the
sound has to be satisfying if you know what I mean. I'm a little bit
spoiled getting lessons on a Kawai acoustic grand which has a superb
sound. What's so amazing about it is that you're really IN the music,
it's all around you. I'd like the sound to be as satisfying as
possible at home too. Of course I don't expect the same sound as a
grand, nothing nearly as good to be honest, but I don't think it has
to be that good to be satisfying. For certain pieces even my Roland
is satisfying. As long as the GT 20's sound is expressive and it's
quality regular, it'll probably be OK. How do you feel about that
aspect of the GT 20's sound? Is the keyboard responsive enough? Can
you express the deepest emotions of the piece you're playing? Or
better, can you express it the way you want to express it?
Sorry to be bothering you with all these maybe silly questions but if
I get the chance to test the GT 20 next week or the week after I hope
to be prepared as good as possible ;)
> What's wrong with polished ebony? And some of the GranTouch line have a wood
> finish - maybe you should look into that.
I think there's nothing wrong with polished ebony, only my father
thinks it doesn't match with our other furniture and that it's hard to
keep free from dust and scratches... But if he feels I really want
the GT 20 he'll let me buy it, he's stubborn sometimes but not
unreasonable :)
And the wood finished Grantouch pianos would probably be the GT 15
which is no longer available :( And the GT 20 is only available in
polished ebony...
Rgds,
Michiel
almanzor
that is no longer produced. I bought mine in year 2001 and so far am
very happy with it. The dynamic response and physical string modeling
make a great difference. Recently I was visiting a site dedicated to
Generalmusic RealPiano. I saw that the guy who developed the site had
performed a series of demanding comparisons of several modules. I
repeated the tests and my Oberheim passed all of them. In this matter
of getting a realistic piano sound it seems that memory is not
necessary the key. Physical modeling --a technology used also by
RealPiano-- seems to be the way to go. The extra edge of RealPiano is
in its continuous damper pedal behaviour. I have been able to provide
a good substitute to my Oberheim with a reverb pedal. The Oberheim
also produces hammer and damper noises that seem not to be of the
liking of everybody. If you hear a good acoustic piano, you will see
how realistic this effect is. The effect is as good and I have even be
able to get some professionals fooled. I play piano as a hobby but in
my honest opinion the Minigrand is one of those cases of a treasure
without due advertisement. Hope my opinion helps you
michielc...@hotmail.com (Nunatax) wrote in message news:<a521c7e5.03082...@posting.google.com>...
