Chopin Scherzo No2
Maxime
I'm currently playing the Scherzo 2 by Chopin (i'll play it in my
program for an exam) but i doubt for the use of the soft pedal.
Do you use it in the two first measures and when thoses two measures
come back?
And dou you you put it in the second part and how (the slow part on
"sotto voce")?
Thanks for your help!
Maxime (sorry for my bad english)
Michael Sayers
I don't think you will get much in the way of piano advice here.
You might want to try posting at:
Mizz Marcia Ryder
"Maxime" <super...@yahoo.fr> wrote in message
news:608f607e.04100...@posting.google.com...
Giles advice is good . I personally like to touch the
soft pedal in the "sotto voce" section on the first chord of the first and
5th meas. of the first phrase, letting off on the following meas. just as
the next chord is sounded. Repeat or vary this some in similar
phrases. This helps to avoid over-playing the first note of the
half-phrases and puts emphasis on the 2nd chord without
and accent. Like Giles said this needs to be delicate but not muted.
I find it easier to shape the very long phrases in this section with the
coloring. I think discrete use of any pedal in this piece is good.
A ringing effect is nice for the arpeggio delicatissimo sections.
Also what helps on the arpeggio phrase endings is to hold the
damper pedal no more than half way down. That way the
arpeggios notes can be played shortened but still have all
the notes ring until the damper is lifted.
Obviously your teacher could help. But even in a practice
session experiment with the pedals and different touches.
Good luck on your exam.
Marsha
Mizz Marcia Ryder
> "Michael Sayers" hurled:
>>(Maxime) wrote:
>> Hello!
>> I'm currently playing the Scherzo 2 by Chopin (i'll play it in my
>> program for an exam) but i doubt for the use of the soft pedal.
>> Do you use it in the two first measures and when thoses two measures
>> come back?
>> And dou you you put it in the second part and how (the slow part on
>> "sotto voce")?
>> Thanks for your help!
>> Maxime (sorry for my bad english)
> I don't think you will get much in the way of piano advice here.
You are a real piece of work, Sayers.
> You might want to try posting at:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/great-pianists
Oh, is that the place where the posters make impromptu
videos of the opening bars of a Haydn sonata to help others.
Where they get it wrong multiple times as they manically
talk over the splattered chord they are trying to demonstrate.
Is that the place? Gee, I'm always open for improvement
in my playing.
Oh, BTW, why have you been slumin' over here is
small rmmp-ville? Bet they don't miss you on yahoo.
Marcia
Michael Sayers
> > "Michael Sayers" hurled:
> >>(Maxime) wrote:
> >> Hello!
> >> I'm currently playing the Scherzo 2 by Chopin (i'll play it in my
> >> program for an exam) but i doubt for the use of the soft pedal.
> >> Do you use it in the two first measures and when thoses two measures
> >> come back?
> >> And dou you you put it in the second part and how (the slow part on
> >> "sotto voce")?
> >> Thanks for your help!
> >> Maxime (sorry for my bad english)
>
> > I don't think you will get much in the way of piano advice here.
>
> You are a real piece of work, Sayers.
The post had been there a day, and only one person had offered advice.
Now, Giles' advice, my advice, and your advice, has been posted.
> > You might want to try posting at:
>
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/great-pianists
>
> Oh, is that the place where the posters make impromptu
> videos of the opening bars of a Haydn sonata to help others.
> Where they get it wrong multiple times as they manically
> talk over the splattered chord they are trying to demonstrate.
> Is that the place? Gee, I'm always open for improvement
> in my playing.
I haven't read posts from the great-pianists group in more than two
years.
> Oh, BTW, why have you been slumin' over here is
> small rmmp-ville? Bet they don't miss you on yahoo.
>
> Marcia
If you will look at the threads, you will see that I responded to a
post which claimed that women pianists have gotten results identical
to those which have been achieved by men pianists.
Mizz Marcia Ryder
>"Michael Sayers" wrote :
> "Mizz Marcia Ryder" >
> > "Michael Sayers" hurled:
>> >>(Maxime) wrote:
>
>> > I don't think you will get much in the way of piano advice here.
>>
>> You are a real piece of work, Sayers.
>
> The post had been there a day, and only one person had offered advice.
> Now, Giles' advice, my advice, and your advice, has been posted.
But wasn't your post there before Giles' post? Why don't you
take your own advice?
>> > You might want to try posting at:
>>
>> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/great-pianists
>>
>> Oh, is that the place where the posters make impromptu
>> videos of the opening bars of a Haydn sonata to help others.
>> Where they get it wrong multiple times as they manically
>> talk over the splattered chord they are trying to demonstrate.
>> Is that the place? Gee, I'm always open for improvement
>> in my playing.
>
>
> I haven't read posts from the great-pianists group in more than two
> years.
>
Don't be so coy, Roy. You remember the video made by
your alter ego?
>> Oh, BTW, why have you been slumin' over here is
>> small rmmp-ville? Bet they don't miss you on yahoo.
>>
>> Marcia
>
>
> If you will look at the threads, you will see that I responded to a
> post which claimed that women pianists have gotten results identical
> to those which have been achieved by men pianists.
Must have missed that one. Was that before or after you voted not
to give rmmp posters a chance to respond to a new poster?
But seriously, I do this odd thing all day -- it's called work. It takes
away a lot of my time from family time and practice.
I do it to support my family. The only external source of support
I have is spiritual.
Marcia
P.S. Wait, I thought you were gone?
Michael Sayers
> >"Michael Sayers" wrote :
> > "Mizz Marcia Ryder" >
> > > "Michael Sayers" hurled:
> >> >>(Maxime) wrote:
> <snip>
>
> >> > I don't think you will get much in the way of piano advice here.
> >>
> >> You are a real piece of work, Sayers.
> >
> > The post had been there a day, and only one person had offered advice.
> > Now, Giles' advice, my advice, and your advice, has been posted.
>
> But wasn't your post there before Giles' post? Why don't you
> take your own advice?
Giles' post was there first. Is there something in the computerese
that suggests otherwise?
I do take my advice. FYI, someone at the Yahoo pianophiles group knew
how Sauer sat in a chair at a piano - at least for posing purposes.
No one hear seems to know. I posted at both places - but there was no
response at r.m.m.p.
It is important, because there are certain types of sounds which I had
thought normally can only be obtained by sitting very low, with the
arms up high. Paderewski sat this way - as can be seen in
photographs, and during the opening 5 minutes of "Moonlight Sonata" in
which he performs.
Saur has some of the tone qualities that can result from that type of
seating position.
I recommend the pianophiles group to anyone who is a pianist.
I forgot to mention, that Mark Arnest is there. This is his pianology
link: http://home.earthlink.net/~marnest/markwork.html#anchor162482 -
there are many fascinating findings there.
He wrote the line notes for Marston The Complete Joseph Hoffman Volume
Seven. It is at: http://www.marstonrecords.com/hofmannv7/hofmannv7_liner.htm
If you are suggesting that I take my advice and not post here, I can
tell you that this is under consideration. It does not seem a very
productive use of one's time to post at r.m.m.p.
With all the things I am doing do that are productive (piano practice,
exercise, transcribing, rereading Shakespeare, chess), internet use
should be limited to about 15 min. a day tops.
> >> > You might want to try posting at:
>
> >> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/great-pianists
> >>
> >> Oh, is that the place where the posters make impromptu
> >> videos of the opening bars of a Haydn sonata to help others.
> >> Where they get it wrong multiple times as they manically
> >> talk over the splattered chord they are trying to demonstrate.
> >> Is that the place? Gee, I'm always open for improvement
> >> in my playing.
> >
> >
> > I haven't read posts from the great-pianists group in more than two
> > years.
> >
> Don't be so coy, Roy. You remember the video made by
> your alter ego?
I have a number of my recitals recorded in video, and simultaneously
in audio, but I haven't converted any sections of the video to mp3.
The audio and the video still need to first be put together.
Do you know or recall this 'alter-ego's' posting name?
If someone is imitating me on the internet, please do let me know.
If someone has put out a video-audio file of a man playing the piano,
who is not me, and then has represented it as me, I would very much
like to know where this file can be found.
> >> Oh, BTW, why have you been slumin' over here is
> >> small rmmp-ville? Bet they don't miss you on yahoo.
> >>
> >> Marcia
> >
> >
> > If you will look at the threads, you will see that I responded to a
> > post which claimed that women pianists have gotten results identical
> > to those which have been achieved by men pianists.
>
> Must have missed that one. Was that before or after you voted not
> to give rmmp posters a chance to respond to a new poster?
What are you talking about? I wish r.m.m.p. posters would have more
of a response, when a there is an inquiry for piano assistance. I
don't think a 'new poster' should be treated any better or worse than
an 'old poster'.
> But seriously, I do this odd thing all day -- it's called work. It takes
> away a lot of my time from family time and practice.
> I do it to support my family.
I did work once, on and off for three years. It was very energy
draining, and I wouldn't feel like working another 8 hours at the
piano, after working 8 hours on the job, and then trying to practice
14 hrs a day on weekends to make up for the short 8 hour a day
practice sessions during the week.
So, in the evenings and on weekends I would play the piano some for
friends, review some repertoire, work on some technique or other here
and there, sight read some new repertoire (and maybe notate some
fingerings, and some changes from the score), but not really do any
practicing.
Then, I would take two weeks off from working, and practice 14 hours a
day every day prior to performing.
The results were not what they could have been, because there are
spots, in some pieces, where more attention would have to have been
made for more reliable performing. One Bach fugue from the WTC has a
high-speed 5-4 trill in the right hand, and a line being played
1-2-1-2 also in the right hand. Things like that, can be refined and
made more reliably consistent with some practice - at least for me.
A pianist should practice every trill, in every configuration in both
hands, every day. When I was working, I wasn't practicing the various
5-4 trills every day. The trills can be practiced in half and whole
step intervals, with both fingers on white keys, both fingers on black
keys, with one finger on a white key and the other finger on a black
key - and with added notes from the other fingers of the hand.
Since, one way or another, I am determined to be a "great" pianist, I
just quit working. Its a do-or-die aspiration. It is nice to be able
to afford chateau bottled Bordeax wines, and to go on dates.....but, I
think piano practice should have first priority. I already have good
musical ideas....the rest is just practice, practice, practice.
Besides, people can be erratic.....but Beethoven and Chopin are always
there when needed.
FYI, I did computer technical support. It paid well - but (as hard as
this might be to believe) I wearied greatly of arguing with people.
> The only external source of support
> I have is spiritual.
I tell people there is an unseen reality, which makes its presence
felt from time to time, but they think I am just being funny. The
world as it is perceived, is not and can not be the real world. This
is explained in Kant's Critique of Pure Reason - and much earlier (and
much more simply) in the ancient Indian Sanskrit writings.....that is,
if one thinks there is anything "simple" about ancient Sanskrit.
You might find http://www.viewzone.com/ancientsanskrit.htm and
http://www.samskrita-bharati.org/news/gulfnews031201.html to be
interesting.
> Marcia
> P.S. Wait, I thought you were gone?
Like in a bad horror movie, Sayers returns again and again..........
get real
wrote:
>Then, I would take two weeks off from working, and practice 14 hours a
>day every day prior to performing.
Whom are you trying to kid, Mike? There is no record of any public
performance of yours anywhere on the internet. The single one that was
up a few months ago, a half program for some engineers or some silly
group that your father is probably a member of, is no longer there.
Your fantasy is therefore unsupportable. Anyway, it's better to live
in painful reality than pleasant fantasy, don't you think?
Michael Sayers
As I said in another post, during the last 6 years I have only done
one or two recitals pre year - no counting dinner recitals. The
recital to which you refer was a recital for the attendees of an
international economics symposium, during August of 2002. It was a
"half programme", because that was what they said they wanted. The
programme included Liszt's Funerailles, Liszt's Sancta Dorothea (a
late work), some Brahms, some Chopin, some of my Bach concert
versions....and, I can't remember if Leschetizky's Intermezzo in
Octaves, Op. 44 No. 4, was on that one or not. There might have been
some Nyiregyhazi, too - the programme is not handy, and I just don't
remember. In addition, the encores weren't published in the
programme.
Another recital programme which was once on the net, and which you
also criticized for being a "half programme", was one of nothing but
some of my Bach concert versions. It was in the spring of 1999. They
wanted a specific duration appearance only. I don't see how I made
the wrong choice by agreeing to their requirements, instead of telling
them to go and find another pianist. Afterwards, in person and in
writing, the festival director complimented me on my Bach
interpretations, and said that I should give more recitals of them. I
still have that letter - dated, and signed.
I am comfortable with the fact that there is no record of my public
performances on the internet.
I know a number of very good pianists, who you won't find anywhere on
the net, because the best pianists don't win the competitions and get
the resultant agent contracts, although it is hard to find a pianist
with a big technique who hasn't followed the conservatory-competition
paths and channels.
One of the best pianists I know - a man by the name of Larry Edwards -
can produce colours in the Liszt Hungarian Rhapsodies, that I have
heard nowhere else. A staple item of his performing repertoire, in
almost every appearance, is Godowsky's "Concert Paraphrase on 'Die
Fledermaus'".
He won the NTSO Piano Concerto competition.....I don't remember what
year, maybe during 1988-92, with the Liszt 1st Concerto. But you
won't find any of this information on the net.
When I think about some pianists I know like my friend Larry
Edwards....and how much more they offer than the well-publicized
pianists, I feel like I am keeping good company. I play sincerely and
honestly....not dishonestly, to win the competitions, and to appease
the self-inflated egos of university or conservatory piano professors.
I feel good about what I do - and, I enjoy the way it makes the
others feel with whom I get to share this honesty and sincerity.
The internet is a horrible place to research pianists. It only
features pianists who are actively engaged before the public, with an
assortment of agents, promoters and establishments, behind them. Just
try getting a list of Liszt's, Chopin's, Paderewski's or de Pachmann's
concerts off the net: it won't be there.
Lots of pianists just fall through the Google cracks. Google only
cares about pianists who are a) alive, b) have a third party agent, c)
have a third party promoter, and d) who will do the things that are
calculated to win the big name competitions and to make their piano
professors feel self-satisfied (not necessarily the NTSO competitions,
or competitions held under the auspices of various orchestras and
institutions).
I got 3rd place in a piano competition when I was a kid. But it isn't
on the net. Of course, I know you will abuse me for not having gotten
1st place - but, 3rd place in a piano competition is okay for an 11
year old. I don't care about the competitions, and I only mention one
of them here in anticipation over your foreseeable wailing and abusive
expressions regarding my piano technique. Please don't ever criticize
my piano technique again in an abusive fashion. Constructive
criticism only, please.
As far as concertizing goes, eighty concerts a year, and jet fumes
twice a week, would not be agreeable to me, anyhow......I hate driving
and flying....but, for engagements that would allow me to travel in
Europe, I might be tempted.
Regards,
Michael Sayers
P.S. - If you genuinely want information about my pianistic history,
you might want to at least have not created the aura that your modus
operandi is to do me some sort of harm, psychological if not also
physical. You might want to get a lawyer's advice concerning stalking
- especially wherein the internet is a tool of stalking - before you
go any further down your present path.
You also might want to read up on the behaviour characteristics of
trolls. These two apply distinctly to you:
1. people who are psychologically disturbed,
and seek to feel good by making other list
members feel bad.
Getreal, anyone who reads your posts unbiasedly, can see that you do
this. I don't even need to elaborate...."the worst banger in
Texas"....."your drek"...."you little twirp"....."a moron".....
2. people who pretend to be someone that
they are not - they create personae that you
think are real, but they know is fictitious.
Getreal, don't you remember when you claimed to be some sort of an
internationally famous concert pianist, with students calling you from
overseas for live phone consultations? You might deny this now, but
if the archives go back far enough, I should be able to dig up your
posts from a year or two ago.
If I claimed to be a world famous pianist, I would have to hide my
identity, because I would be telling a lie. But I just claim to be a
pianist who performs here or there - once or twice a year - and I
don't suggest that I have ever performed in places such as, say,
Carnegie Hall or Wigmore Hall. So, I don't have to lie.
You, on the other, do have to lie. The purpose of your lying is a
form of self-inflatement, so that you can make other people feel
diminished. The fact is, that your piano abilities are probably far
removed from being exeptional.
My abilities are exceptional, so I don't care if I am famous or not, I
don't mind from time-to-time making audio files of my recitals
available on the net, and I don't need fame as a butress to my
confidence or self-esteem....but your's are probably mediocre, and you
do need fame to butress your self-esteem, and you lie to create a
false effect on the internet. But when you sign off the net, the
truth is still there waiting for you.
It is okay to not be an exceptional pianist.......people go to bed
every night, not being an exceptional pianist, and they have their
piece of mind nonetheless. I think you are torturing yourself about
something unnecessarily - and, somehow, my peculiar traits of
obstinancy and persistence have brought this to the surface. I think
the notion that I might be a concert pianist (even if only a highly
semi-professional one), threatens your particular constructs in some
way.
Unless you learn to only worry about what is in your power to control,
you aren't going to be able to stop the self-torturing.
I am sure this post is going to fall on deaf ears....so, be sure in
your response to wail away, abuse, abuse, abuse.....after all, you
have an pseudo-ally in Larry Fletcher. Before abusing me in the past,
as in recent days, your procedure has been to wait for him to make the
first stab, and clear a path. Maybe you would listen to him if he
said to stop....I don't know.
I am not sure what is wrong with you, but I have the patience and
curiosity to see where it leads. Please don't stalk me illegally - as
in, making telephone calls to my relatives, or sending unnecessary
items in the regular mails. If you do that, I will feel compelled to
undertake lawful recourse. If you ever want to communicate privately,
we can - but it will have to be by email at the start, at the
confortable distance of one email at a time - no deluges, demands or
ultimatums. It also has to be sincere, honest and non-abusive. And,
of course, I would keep the emails 100% private.
get real
wrote:
>get real <suedo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<cp4bm092cok2dlvf2...@4ax.com>...
>> On 7 Oct 2004 11:59:15 -0700, mjs1...@yahoo.com (Michael Sayers)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Then, I would take two weeks off from working, and practice 14 hours a
>> >day every day prior to performing.
>>
>> Whom are you trying to kid, Mike? There is no record of any public
>> performance of yours anywhere on the internet. The single one that was
>> up a few months ago, a half program for some engineers or some silly
>> group that your father is probably a member of, is no longer there.
>> Your fantasy is therefore unsupportable. Anyway, it's better to live
>> in painful reality than pleasant fantasy, don't you think?
>
>
>As I said in another post, during the last 6 years I have only done
>one or two recitals pre year - no counting dinner recitals.
No, you haven't. If you had, there would be some mention of 6 - 12
recitals on the web. Anytime anyone plays anywhere (just about), there
is some mention somewhere. Even if it is at a small school, something
will come up. NOTHING comes up for you because YOU DO NOT PLAY. How
could you? I have heard you.
The
>recital to which you refer was a recital for the attendees of an
>international economics symposium, during August of 2002. It was a
>"half programme", because that was what they said they wanted. The
>programme included Liszt's Funerailles, Liszt's Sancta Dorothea (a
>late work), some Brahms, some Chopin, some of my Bach concert
>versions....and, I can't remember if Leschetizky's Intermezzo in
>Octaves, Op. 44 No. 4, was on that one or not. There might have been
>some Nyiregyhazi, too - the programme is not handy, and I just don't
>remember. In addition, the encores weren't published in the
>programme.
Who cares about your one silly half program? ANd here's a newsflash
for ya -- encores are BY DEFINITION not published in the program"me".
>
>Another recital programme which was once on the net, and which you
>also criticized for being a "half programme", was one of nothing but
>some of my Bach concert versions. It was in the spring of 1999.
I didn't criticize it because I never found it. If you have a google
reference, please provide it.
They
>wanted a specific duration appearance only. I don't see how I made
>the wrong choice by agreeing to their requirements, instead of telling
>them to go and find another pianist. Afterwards, in person and in
>writing, the festival director complimented me on my Bach
>interpretations, and said that I should give more recitals of them. I
>still have that letter - dated, and signed.
>
>I am comfortable with the fact that there is no record of my public
>performances on the internet.
YOu only think you are comfortable. In fact you are an ostrich who
cannot face reality. And as usual, as I gaze below, you are going into
irrelevant ramble mode, so I will bid you adieu until next time.
Ooops, i lied. This just caught my eye. You won 3rd place when you
were a kid. Do you not see how pathetic mention of such a thing in a
public forum is? Poor mikey....
Michael Sayers
If you genuinely want to discuss Bernhard Steiner pianos, or want
information about my pianistic history, you might want to at least
have not created the aura that your modus operandi in these
interactions is to do me some sort of harm, psychological if not also
physical. You might want to get a lawyer's advice concerning stalking
- especially wherein the internet is a tool of stalking - before you
go any further down your present path.
You also might want to read up on the behaviour characteristics of
trolls. These two apply distinctly to you:
1. people who are psychologically disturbed,
and seek to feel good by making other list
members feel bad.
Getreal, anyone who reads your posts unbiasedly, can see that you do
this. I don't even need to elaborate...."the worst banger in
Texas"....."your drek"...."your piece of drek"....."you little
twirp"....."a moron"....."wannabe thief"...."insane"....."poor
mikey"...."your poor, diseased brain"....."what an ass you are".....
Maxime
I asked my teacher who advice me not to use it in the first measures.
And to use it a little in the "sotto voce" section. But my problem is
that the piano on which I'll play for my exam is very hard to control
so i think i'll have to use more soft pedal than on an other piano!
(the new piano will be
in the conservatory one week after grrrrrr!!)
Maxime
"Mizz Marcia Ryder" <Mizz...@regrets.com> wrote in message news:<gyI8d.605$ol5...@fe1.columbus.rr.com>...
Mizz Marcia Ryder
> I asked my teacher who advice me not to use it in the first measures.
> And to use it a little in the "sotto voce" section. But my problem is
> that the piano on which I'll play for my exam is very hard to control
Hard to control in what way? Do you mean that the exam piano has
a loose action or that it has a shallow keybed or that it is too bright
or that it....?? there are some ways to "control" it depending on the
problem.
In my experience if I practice a lot on a piano with an extremely stiff
action then I find it a lot easier to control a "looser" action.
If it's too bright then the only thing you could try is to lower the
overall dynamics of the work down one dyamic level,
eg instead of fortissimo, play forte; instead of mezzo piano, play piano.
Still, your teacher has heard you on that piano right? Remember she/he
can hear qualities at a distance that you cannot hear. In some things you
must really trust your teacher *until* you learn how to listen to yourself.
> so i think i'll have to use more soft pedal than on an other piano!
> (the new piano will be
> in the conservatory one week after grrrrrr!!)
I'd rather try to control a worn out piano than one that has not
been broken in; too many surprizes.
<snip>
Again, good luck.
Marsha
Maxime
haven't a good english!
The piano has an heavy touch and a stiff action and the sound is too
bright especially for the bass. So you can't play pianissimo without a
lot of softness. On the other you can play fortissimo relatively
easily. Furthermore I'll play also Debussy's Pagodes, which needs a
lot of control in pianissimo... I'll play on this piano with my
teacher soon, so he will probably help me.
Maxime
"Mizz Marcia Ryder" <Mizz...@regrets.com> wrote in message news:<N5I9d.18391$V06....@fe2.columbus.rr.com>...