Reducing noise to neighbors
Adam Deutsch
piano sounds to neighbors in an apartment building?
Is placing a thick rug or carpet underneath the piano the only thing that
can be done?
Thanks in advance for your advice.
Klaus Boehme
>Does anyone have any thoughts on the best way to reduce the propagation of
>piano sounds to neighbors in an apartment building?
It is difficult to advise on noise control without seeing the
apartment or knowing its acoustic properties, yet here are a few
points to consider.
Treat the sound as sound waves. In acoustic control, one must
determine what you want the waves to do - ie bounce off of solid
materials to achieve reverb, be absorbed by materials etc..
>Is placing a thick rug or carpet underneath the piano the only thing that
>can be done?
If the problem is downstairs, you probably have a degree of resonance
of waves going though the floor, a rug may eliminate this a little but
there would still be a number of waves escaping over the edges.
What you may care to consider is to contain the waves as best you can.
Without building a soundproof booth, you could start by laying a piece
of acoustic foam rubber (the egg carton style) on the floor under the
piano - a few layers of foam carpet underlay will also help instead of
the more expensive acoustic foam - this will create a dampening effect
and slow the movement of waves. As this is not necesarily an
attractive setup, then lay a rug over the top - for aesthetic reasons
only.
Now you would have to contain the sound vertically. In an apartment
the easiest solution may be to install a circular curtain rack around
the piano, and hang heavy black velvet curtains. These will absorb
much of the sound, and can be retracted when not playing, or even
leave a small opening when performing for others in the room.
These are a few thoughts which will hopefully assist, you may still
find it is a matter of trial and error. If all else fails, get an
electronic piano/keyboard and plug in a set of headphones :-)
regards, Klaus.
philm
Adam Deutsch (ad...@db.toronto.edu) wrote:
: Does anyone have any thoughts on the best way to reduce the propagation of
: piano sounds to neighbors in an apartment building?
: Is placing a thick rug or carpet underneath the piano the only thing that
: can be done?
: Thanks in advance for your advice.
I had a similar question a few weeks ago and some kind person said that
foam blocks stuffed between the "beams" in back of an upright work well.
--
Phil Marsosudiro
NICKK3
>the easiest solution may be to install a circular curtain rack around
>the piano, and hang heavy black velvet curtains.
....heavy "BLACK" velvet curtains...? (I've always kinda liked green) ;-).
Nick
Les Smith
: Does anyone have any thoughts on the best way to reduce the propagation of
: piano sounds to neighbors in an apartment building?
: Is placing a thick rug or carpet underneath the piano the only thing that
: can be done?
: Thanks in advance for your advice.
It depends on whether your piano is a vertical or a grand. If it's a
vertical--an upright, console, or spinet-- talk to you regular tuner
about installing a "practice rail" or "silencer". When in the "on" posi-
tiion a practice rail inserts a thin piece of felt between the hammers
and the strings, thus considerably reducing the volume. It's controlled
by a choke device under the keybed, so it doesn't have to be on all the
time. The L.H. pedal on both grands and verticals is a soft pedal, that
also reduces the sound, although not as much as a silencer. Unlike the
R.H. sustaining or damper pedal, which you're constantly moving up and
down as you play, you can put the "soft pedal" down and keep it down
throught an entire piece. Lastly, a competent piano technician should
be able to "voice" the hammers in your piano so that the overall volume
of the instrument is softer.
Les Smith
less...@buffnet.net
mpel...@eciad.bc.ca
: Does anyone have any thoughts on the best way to reduce the propagation of
: piano sounds to neighbors in an apartment building?
: Is placing a thick rug or carpet underneath the piano the only thing that
: can be done?
Hi Adam,
I think I may write a FAQ on this one... but here's my advice (baised on
fighting with my neighbours for 2 years in my present location and
another 5 years in various other places)
I've tried manythings to damper the sound of a piano without altering
it. The most inefective solutions were thoes that involved talking to my
neighbours, prommising no to play at certain hours or only to play at
set periods. This stratagey works for about 2 minutes and then the great
complaining cycle repeats.
So forget that. Don't even waste your time on talking to them. You'll get
all excited that you've talked to them and them when the phone rings
(you're in trouble) your heart will sink! Your "Big Brain" is going to
have to work this one out on the acoustic level.
Ok, here we go, the 2 most efective things I have found in piano sound
isolation are 1) isolating the piano from the floor (really, my piano is
not in direct contact with the floor) and 2) making a sound barrier in
front of hollow walls. There is a Third thing you can try, but it's just
an extera thing. I'll explain in 2 secs....
1) Isolation from the floor. The people who live below you can hear the
piano not because of the sound waves from the strings, but because of the
sound waves from the leggs (if it's a grand, feet I guess it's its an
upright.) Sound waves tend to bounce off things rather than go through
them. Thee floor is big enough that the sound should bounce off of it. If
you put a thick carpet on the floor, you probably would notice a
difference in sound. However, the people below you would not. What
happens is that the vibrations of the strings vibrate the entire piano.
Because the piano is very heavy, it makes solit contact with the floor.
The vibrations from the leggs with vibrate the floor; thus the celling of
the people below you becomes a very big sound board. Complaints will follow!
Isolation can be done in several ways, one (and I don't reccomend this,
but if you're into this kind of thing then, well... let me know how it
turns out) is that you can hang the piano from the celling. Let it hang
down low enough to almost, but not quite touch the floor. I guess this is
ideal. The more practical way is to get corque or VERY dense rubber block
(say 3"-5" thick) and place your piano on them. This will stopp the
vibration if the materials are right.
2) Ok, the walls around you are hollow. They allso travel up and down
through the walls. There are holes in the floor between the wall spaces
for things like electrical wires plumbing. The sound will bounce around
and travel up or down through this space. So... you have to cover the
closest walls with something dense (foam carpet ect). 2 layers of carpet
(with different densities is good). Now, this step may not be a probelm
for you. My piano is right up against a wall this is a problem for me.
Most pianos are up against walls, especially if you own an upright. I
have just used large cushions. it works fine. Mind you, I used BIG ones.
3) Here's the bonus. If you own a grand, you can always stuff pillows in
the bottom to slow the bass down. The effect with make your bass tighter
(A bit nicer to play) at a loss of some ambience. You only have to worry
about the bass strings. Low frequencies are unimpeded by most things, so
they *are* infact able to travel from the piano straight trough the
floor. You will find that bass is what people usually complain about.
Higher tones are not too much pf a problem. This is a consideration for
thoes who own a grand. The bass strings can get quite long and be quite
problematic.
Well anyhow, hope this helps and good luck!
-marc
PS: if anyone else has any suggestions, please share them. But after
discovering the above techniques, I have not had a complaint in over a
year now.
A Anderson
> 3) Here's the bonus. If you own a grand, you can always stuff pillows in
> the bottom to slow the bass down. The effect with make your bass tighter
> (A bit nicer to play) at a loss of some ambience. You only have to worry
> about the bass strings.
I thought of this, but - where exactly do you stuff them? in contact with
the strings? is this an OK thing to do?
...........................................................................
Alison Anderson ali...@fit.qut.edu.au
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A Anderson
>
>
> I had a similar question a few weeks ago and some kind person said that
> foam blocks stuffed between the "beams" in back of an upright work well.
>
which is specially made for putting around vibrating factory equipment,
engines etc. I made a sort of piano-shaped layer of this for my grand,
and strung it up directly under the case in a sort of cat's cradle. It
doesn't work wonders, but in conjunction with a rug under the piano, and
lined curtains next to it the difference is noticeable.
Fortunately the foam was only available in black, so it doesn't look too
ridiculous unless you're crawling underneath!
Enrico Goldoni
ali...@fit.qut.edu.au says...
>
Although if i live in a big house (so i have no problems with nieghbors),
i found that if you wind up your piano in a cloth of velvet, this it can
reduce noticeably the sound of the piano.
Nrcgld.