Korean made pianos
Jimmy Hsu
problem is even Yamaha pianos these days are made or assembled in Korea.
There is a German brand piano called Weinberg that is made in Korea and
people worry that its sound quality will deteriorate after some years of
using, as is common with Korean brands like Hyundai pianos. etc.
Anyone had experience with Korean made/assembled pianos.
(Incidentlally, I'm not Korea bashing for I admired that country very much
for the many great musicians it has produced.)
Stephanie Michlink
that one. Yamaha has connections with the Pearl River Plant in China. Has some
keyboards made in Indonesia. I just got back from touring the Yamaha plants in
Japan a couple of weeks ago and there was no mention of any assembling in Korea.
There are allot of German brands names that have been bought by Korean
manufactures. Horugel to name one, is made by Sammick. I am sure that there
are some fine pianos out there that have been assembled in Korea. However, I am
not convinced that any Korean product could ever achieve the quality that the
Japanese market produces.
Read the Larry Fine Piano Book. You'll get some good information out of there.
Stephanie Michlink
Rick Clark
>I was advised not to buy Korean made pianos for their poor quality. But
>problem is even Yamaha pianos these days are made or assembled in Korea.
>There is a German brand piano called Weinberg that is made in Korea and
>people worry that its sound quality will deteriorate after some years of
>using, as is common with Korean brands like Hyundai pianos. etc.
>
>Anyone had experience with Korean made/assembled pianos.
Jimmy,
Poor quality compared to what? Pianos that cost 2 or 3 times as much?
That wouldn't be a fair comparison.
Assuming you are referring to recently made Koreans (Young Chang or
Samick built), I find them to be very good in their price category. If
you compare them to more expensive Japanese, German, etc pianos, then
the more expensive ones are usually better. But if you compare a
typical inexpensive modern Korean piano, intended for the typical home
user, to the typical inexpensive American-made home piano of past
decades, I think the Koreans are far, far ahead in quality.
The typical problems with new Korean pianos have to do with a lack of
final preparation. Most of them need some debugging, voicing, etc, but
once those things are accomplished, I find Korean pianos very
satisfactory though not identical in quality to Yamahas, etc. Also,
I'm positive that a lot of pianos are unfairly criticized simply
because their owners have allowed them to get out of tune, or out of
regulation. People who buy cheaper instruments tend to also not
maintain them well, and the resulting deterioration can make the piano
seem worse than it would have been with good maintenance.
Some people are "down" on Koreans because they will criticize anything
not perfect, others because perhaps they encountered problems or sour
notes that likely could have been corrected- but it was easier for
them do condemn or complain than to look at the piano realistically.
But let me say this- speaking as a piano technician, I would buy a
Korean piano, tweak it up, and be happy. If I felt I needed the finest
piano available, then I would spend a lot more and get something
better than a Korean.
If you want to talk about older Korean pianos- the farther back in
time you go, the buggier they were. 15 years ago they tended to have a
lot of problems (though still not necessarily worse than like-priced
American made pianos). Over the years, the Koreans have steadily
improved their factory techniques, and nowadays they are pretty good.
Rick Clark
Dave Zappa
Jimmy Hsu wrote:
I was advised not to buy Korean made pianos for their poor quality. But
problem is even Yamaha pianos these days are made or assembled in Korea.
There is a German brand piano called Weinberg that is made in Korea and
people worry that its sound quality will deteriorate after some years of
using, as is common with Korean brands like Hyundai pianos. etc.
Anyone had experience with Korean made/assembled pianos.
(Incidentlally, I'm not Korea bashing for I admired that country very much
for the many great musicians it has produced.)
I'd advise you to find some other advice. The person that told you Korean pianos were of poor quality is wrong. Initially the Korean pianos (at least here in the US) had some serious quality issues, but they have long since remedied these problems. Incidentally, no Yamaha pianos marketed here in the US to my knowledge are made in Korea. BTW: there is no "german" piano built in Korea, that sort of spin started with Samick and snowballed. (I wonder if the Germans would ever consider calling a piano built there a "Korean piano from Germany").
--
Dave
Retail salesperson representing Steinway, Boston, Yamaha, Samick,
Kohler & Campbell, PianoDisc, & Clavinova. Support your
local
service-oriented dealer. Opinions expressed are my own and do
not
necessarily reflect the opinions of my employer. To reply by
e-mail
please remove the "SPAMTHIS" from my address.
b...@thepianosource.com
snip
>Samick built), I find them to be very good in their price category. If
>you compare them to more expensive Japanese, German, etc pianos, then
>the more expensive ones are usually better. But if you compare a
>typical inexpensive modern Korean piano, intended for the typical home
>user, to the typical inexpensive American-made home piano of past
>decades, I think the Koreans are far, far ahead in quality.
I would agree. When people make comparisons they have a tendency to
compare without taking price and other similar factors into
consideration. I agree with Rick in that in a lot of cases those who
buy inexpensive pianos also skip the normal maintenance. It is not at
all uncommon for me to go look at a 7 or 8 year old Korean piano that
someone wants to sell and find that the only time the piano was tuned,
let alone serviced, was the free one they got when the piano was new.
Of course I have looked at many an American piano that hasn't seen a
technician in 20 or 30 years. Higher end products tend to get more
service and attention. All of this is relative. Of course a $6000
grand is not going to be in the same category of a $26,000 grand. Only
a fool would expect that. In answer to the original poster, if your
price range is the range of Korean product, then by all means look at
them. There are differences. Hyundai is not on the same level as
Samick although from the same manufacturer. Someone mentioned Horugel,
I don't think they are made anymore but they were really bottom end.
generally called the Horrible Horugel.
--
Bob S - - Formerly of Atlanta and now in So Florida - - to reply remove the "nospam" from address
For the answers to many of your
piano buying questions, please see
http://www.thepianosource.com
Don
>I was advised not to buy Korean made pianos for their poor quality. But
>problem is even Yamaha pianos these days are made or assembled in Korea.
>There is a German brand piano called Weinberg that is made in Korea and
>people worry that its sound quality will deteriorate after some years of
>using, as is common with Korean brands like Hyundai pianos. etc.
>
>Anyone had experience with Korean made/assembled pianos.
>
>(Incidentlally, I'm not Korea bashing for I admired that country very much
>for the many great musicians it has produced.)
>
>
Jimmy,
For the past four years I have had two piano jobs, each with shorter
YC Grands. One I played 6 nights each week and the other I played 3
days/week.
Both pianos suffered exactly the same problems with keys sticking or
not playing. The first was brand new...right off the showroom floor.
I spent the first two years trying to keep enough notes playing just
to get through 4 hours of music. The first piano turned me TOTALLY
OFF to ever playing or owning a YC piano. Then I got the second
"lunch job" with the second YC grand. Same "piece of junk" piano.
HATE IT. Will NEVER buy or recommend a YC.
Why would I when you can't play them most of the time??? It's hard to
play a piano when 4 to 10 notes simply do NOT work correctly at any
given time!!!
BTW, I don't sell any brand but I would buy a Yamaha or Kawaii which
was 20 or 30 years old before I would buy a YC of any age or at any
price. I would even buy a digital piano before I would buy a YC.
And I have over 30 years of professional experience to back up my
opinion!
D*
Recently described as:
"piano-bar-church music director-conductor-funeral pianist."
------------------------------------------------------------
www.calldon.com/shadow.htm
Remembering Shadow
July 1984 - November 13, 1997
A Tribute To The Sweetest, Most Perfect Dog In Heaven
Rick Clark
>Both pianos suffered exactly the same problems with keys sticking or
>not playing.
Don,
I won't attempt to minimize how frustrating it must have been for you
to have worked with those sticky key problems, and I also won't argue
that Yamahas or Kawais aren't the better made instrument. I work with
a lot of paid pros, and have become very sensitive for their need to
have pianos that *respond*.
What I will say is that I as a technician have never encountered a
sticky key problem that couldn't be fixed, and usually quite easily.
The exception would be if the piano were kept in horrific humidity
conditions- but that could kill the response of any brand of piano.
I would also add that sticky notes can and do occur in about any brand
of piano you might care to name- though certainly the cheaper ones may
have them more, mostly due to lack of prep (final tweaking at factory
or dealer) or lack of maintenance. (Both things are correctable)
I suspect your situation fell under one of a few categories. 1. The
tuner was informed of the problem, but the tuner was unknowledgeable
and/or lazy. 2. No one wanted to pay to have the problem fixed. 3. No
one ever complained to the dealer or tech. 4. The piano was never
maintained/tuned. 5. A humidity control system was needed but not had.
Again, I have sympathy for what you faced playing those YCs. But
sticky keys are usually a very minor problem, and quite common. It is
so unfortuanate yours never got fixed right.
A little anecdote of my own: I service a large number of Yamaha C3s
that are in nightly performance. I recently got a "panic call" for a
sticky key problem of one I had just serviced the week before. In the
player's imagination it was deduced that either I had done something
wrong at the last service, or there was a big problem developing in
the piano. As it turned out, the player had simply dropped a pen
inside, jamming the works. Point? This is about all most sticky key
problems in a newish piano amount to. A piece of debris here, a squirt
of lube or turn of a screw there, easing the key bushing. 5 or 10
minutes work, most of the time.
A further point- this fleet of C3s is on a maintenance schedule of
every 2 weeks per piano. Due to the nightly, heavy-duty use they get,
this is neccessary to stay on top of all the little problems that
develop in such a circumstance. Any less, and they would be suffering
from action or tuning problems also (which is how the 2 week schedule
was arrived at, through trial-and-error). How often were your YCs
being serviced, I wonder?
Here's hoping you never get stuck playing a badly-performing piano
again!
Rick Clark
Don
I understand what you are speaking of. The first two years we had
the PTG tech in around once per month. It was very frustrating. The
piano was in a 20th floor restaurant of the Sheraton Park Central
hotel in Dallas in a very controlled environment.
These were regularly occuring problems which required WAY too many
service calls. NO PIANO should need THAT MUCH work on it after it is
purchased.
>A little anecdote of my own: I service a large number of Yamaha C3s
>that are in nightly performance. I recently got a "panic call" for a
>sticky key problem of one I had just serviced the week before. In the
>player's imagination it was deduced that either I had done something
>wrong at the last service, or there was a big problem developing in
>the piano. As it turned out, the player had simply dropped a pen
>inside, jamming the works. Point? This is about all most sticky key
>problems in a newish piano amount to. A piece of debris here, a squirt
>of lube or turn of a screw there, easing the key bushing. 5 or 10
>minutes work, most of the time.
>
>A further point- this fleet of C3s is on a maintenance schedule of
>every 2 weeks per piano. Due to the nightly, heavy-duty use they get,
>this is neccessary to stay on top of all the little problems that
>develop in such a circumstance. Any less, and they would be suffering
>from action or tuning problems also (which is how the 2 week schedule
>was arrived at, through trial-and-error). How often were your YCs
>being serviced, I wonder?
>
Read above. The second piano has not needed as many service calls but
it was around 4 or 5 years old when I first began playing it.
However it still has the same problems.
The funny thing is that the second YC is in the middle of a lobby of a
building where it suffers all kinds of temp and humidity differences.
Over the years I have played alot of pianos in various circumstances,
including the same settings as these pianos. But I have never had
problems as much as with these two Young Chang pianoss. That is why I
say that the YC piano is NOT worth the trouble. If there is another
choice of which instrument, buy the other brand.
Jimmy Hsu
>Excuse me, exactly which Yamaha pianos are made in Korea? I have never
heard
>that one. Yamaha has connections with the Pearl River Plant in China. Has
some
>keyboards made in Indonesia. I just got back from touring the Yamaha
plants in
>Japan a couple of weeks ago and there was no mention of any assembling in
Korea.
I was told by a piano dealer here in Singapore that the smaller Yamaha
uprights sold here are assembled in Korea. He also told me that the German
Ibach and Weinberg brands are also assembled in Korea. He carries all
these brands of Korean assembled pianos. But he recommended against the
Hyundai, which he also carries.
>. ....... I am not convinced that any Korean product could ever achieve
the quality that >the Japanese market produces.
So, it's better then to go for a Japanese made product than a Korean one?
You know, I'm kind of lost. As my budget is no more than US$3,000, my
choices are limited to the Yamahas, Kawai, Hyundai or worst the Chinese made
ones, which I was told are really horrid. So my dilemma is either the
Korean made ones or the Chinese ones.
>Read the Larry Fine Piano Book. You'll get some good information out of
there.
Thanks. I'll try to find checkthis book out.
>Stephanie Michlink
pTooner
Don wrote:
> Jimmy,
>
> For the past four years I have had two piano jobs, each with shorter
> YC Grands. One I played 6 nights each week and the other I played 3
> days/week.
>
> Both pianos suffered exactly the same problems with keys sticking or
> not playing. The first was brand new...right off the showroom floor.
> I spent the first two years trying to keep enough notes playing just
> to get through 4 hours of music. The first piano turned me TOTALLY
> OFF to ever playing or owning a YC piano. Then I got the second
> "lunch job" with the second YC grand. Same "piece of junk" piano.
> HATE IT. Will NEVER buy or recommend a YC.
>
> Why would I when you can't play them most of the time??? It's hard to
> play a piano when 4 to 10 notes simply do NOT work correctly at any
> given time!!!
>
> BTW, I don't sell any brand but I would buy a Yamaha or Kawaii which
> was 20 or 30 years old before I would buy a YC of any age or at any
> price. I would even buy a digital piano before I would buy a YC.
> And I have over 30 years of professional experience to back up my
> opinion!
>
>
Dear Don, What you needed was a competent tech.
Gerry
Rick Clark
Your problems sure didn't exist for lack of trying. But I'm thinking
this piano really only had one problem, and the tech never found the
real solution- just temp cover ups, like that radiator stop-leak
stuff.
Too bad it was such a PITA for you. YC is actually very good about
supplying free replacement parts when needed, but it sounds like
things broke down at the technician interface. A lot of repairs aren't
"in the book", and a lot of techs have problems diagnosing when
they're not. I guess like anything else, there are a few really good
techs, a few really bad ones, and a bunch in the middle.
Rick
Don
Don
>Wow, Don,
>
>Your problems sure didn't exist for lack of trying. But I'm thinking
>this piano really only had one problem, and the tech never found the
>real solution- just temp cover ups, like that radiator stop-leak
>stuff.
>
It really burned me on the YC pianos. In face, when I mentioned it to
other pianists, not a single one said anything good about YC pianos.
In fact, they ALL spoke of them in a negative way. No one liked them.
>Too bad it was such a PITA for you.
What's a PITA?? (I can guess)
>YC is actually very good about
>supplying free replacement parts when needed, but it sounds like
>things broke down at the technician interface. A lot of repairs aren't
>"in the book", and a lot of techs have problems diagnosing when
>they're not. I guess like anything else, there are a few really good
>techs, a few really bad ones, and a bunch in the middle.
>
>Rick
AS someone once said...50 per cent of all medical Doctors graduated in
the lower half of their class.
anonymous
" Young Chang ". I love it! I don't know much about piano but I think
Steinway is the best! : o D Actually if the pian sounds good, then it does
not matter where it comes from la! haha...........Good Luck!
Jimmy Hsu <jh...@pacific.net.sg> 次寫入到主題
<6q1qll$9rq$1...@newton2.pacific.net.sg>...
Lloyd Michael
pianos but it seems that the larger grands will typically fare better
than the smaller uprights probably because of greater quality control at
the factory.
John S. Gray
where I was employed got abruptly cut off from Kawai's network, and we
needed to find some other relatively low-cost brand to support our
customer base. (Not everyone could afford a Bechstein B203!).
At the Musicanada Expo that Fall we went for the Samick/Steigerman line.
The first year was awful, except, strangely enough, for the little 105cm
uprights which were nearly as good as the CX-series Kawais we were selling
the year before. The 107cm and 116cm consoles were abysmal, and clearly
the descendents of the Horrible Horugel things.
Then in 1985 we began to receive the Klaus Fenner designs, and the pianos
seemed to get better and better. In particular, the 118cm and 110 cm
uprights blew us away. I was able to prep the 118's with a double pass,
plus a blow & dip regulation.
Then in 1988, more awful things came out, like the laughable 76-tone
miniature upright with unsupported balance-hole keys, and the dreaded
140cm grand with no agraffes.
We never did floor one of the nice 205cm or the big concert grands, and
more's the pity.
But in retrospect, all those pianos came from the same factory and NOT ALL
of them were junk. One needed wisdom and experience to pick through the
product line. (Not to mention a bit of German, especially when running
into Fenner himself: he was only too willing to point out the designs
which had been put into production with the least amount of compromise, as
well as those where all his work was virtually ignored)
JG
SLindenbau
misinformed. Ymaha pianos are not assembled in Korea.They do make Eterna brand
pianos for Yamaha in china.
Hyundai pianos are assembled of the highest quality German components.ONE gets
tone from the strings and hammers.Hyundai uses Roslau Strings ,as does the
finest german pianos including,Bosendorfer, Bechsteinothers.Hyundai uses Royal
George highest density virgin wool for their hammars,you cant do any better.for
longevity, Hyundai uses Dlignit pinblcks,the same brand that Bosendorfer use
,and are in the pianos at Kennedy center.entertaining our
preident,legislature,and royalty..HYUNDAI ADDS AN ADDITIONAL PROCESS TO ITS
SOUNBOURD MANUFACTURING PROCEDURE, GIVING YOU AN EVEN TONE ,AND STABILITY
BETWEEN TUNINGS THAT IS UNEQUALLED IN OTHER PIANOS COSTING MUCH MORE WHEN
EXPOSED TO THE AVERAGE HOME ENVIRONMENT.
Good luck in your piano shopping and if you compare how much quality you get
for the same price you will have to consider Koren pianos as, japanese pianos
are o0ver priced at this time and,their home pianos are not of the quality to
warrant the higher prices.
S.Lindenbau @aol.com
p.s. Please get back to me if I can be of any help
Mccanndj
>HYUNDAI ADDS AN ADDITIONAL PROCESS TO ITS
>SOUNBOURD MANUFACTURING PROCEDURE, GIVING YOU AN EVEN TONE ,AND STABILITY
>BETWEEN TUNINGS THAT IS UNEQUALLED IN OTHER PIANOS COSTING MUCH MORE WHEN
>EXPOSED TO THE AVERAGE HOME ENVIRONMENT.
>Good luck in your piano shopping and if you compare how much quality you get
>for the same price you will have to consider Koren pianos as, japanese pianos
>are o0ver priced at this time and,their home pianos are not of the quality to
>warrant the higher prices.
>S.Lindenbau @aol.com
>p.s. Please get back to me if I can be of any help
>
Oh boy, I can hardly wait to read the responses to this one....!
SLindenbau
Stanley Lindenbaum
<SLind...@aol.com>
Yamaha does have their Eterna brand pianos made in China for the U S market
Hyundai pianos are made from the finest German brand components assurring
loner lasting tonal quality.One gets tone from the strings and hammers.Hyundai
uses Rouslau 9germany fines)strings
,and Royal George Highest Density virgin wool on their hammers,you cannot do
any better.For pinbocks,Hyundai uses Delignit pinbocks,they are holding up
quite well in the Bosendorfers at Kennedy center.Should you have a budget in
min that limits you to the qulity line of Yamaha and Kawaii.,i think you may
find the reverse is true ,the Hyundai you can buy for the same amount of money
will outperform The Japanese product ,now ,and in the future.
b...@thepianosource.com
>Sorry,but I feel I should tell you that you have been either mis led,or
>misinformed. Ymaha pianos are not assembled in Korea.They do make Eterna brand
>pianos for Yamaha in china.
>Hyundai pianos are assembled of the highest quality German components.ONE gets
>tone from the strings and hammers.Hyundai uses Roslau Strings ,as does the
>finest german pianos including,Bosendorfer, Bechsteinothers.Hyundai uses Royal
>George highest density virgin wool for their hammars,you cant do any better.for
>longevity, Hyundai uses Dlignit pinblcks,the same brand that Bosendorfer use
>,and are in the pianos at Kennedy center.entertaining our
>preident,legislature,and royalty..HYUNDAI ADDS AN ADDITIONAL PROCESS TO ITS
>SOUNBOURD MANUFACTURING PROCEDURE, GIVING YOU AN EVEN TONE ,AND STABILITY
>BETWEEN TUNINGS THAT IS UNEQUALLED IN OTHER PIANOS COSTING MUCH MORE WHEN
>EXPOSED TO THE AVERAGE HOME ENVIRONMENT.
>Good luck in your piano shopping and if you compare how much quality you get
>for the same price you will have to consider Koren pianos as, japanese pianos
>are o0ver priced at this time and,their home pianos are not of the quality to
>warrant the higher prices.
>S.Lindenbau @aol.com
>p.s. Please get back to me if I can be of any help
Stan, I asked you years ago for some proof of the additional process
that you stated Hyundai did to its pianos, made for them by Samick,
As I recall you just got angry and told me that it was so. Could that
be the same as saying in in full caps as above? Shouting makes it so!
Since you were then, and I assume still, the rep selling Hyundai
pianos in the US I would assume you have that info. Perhaps you can
post it now!!
--
Bob S - - Formerly of Atlanta and now in So Florida
Don
>slindenbau says:
>
>>HYUNDAI ADDS AN ADDITIONAL PROCESS TO ITS
>>SOUNBOURD MANUFACTURING PROCEDURE, GIVING YOU AN EVEN TONE ,AND STABILITY
>>BETWEEN TUNINGS THAT IS UNEQUALLED IN OTHER PIANOS COSTING MUCH MORE WHEN
>>EXPOSED TO THE AVERAGE HOME ENVIRONMENT.
>>Good luck in your piano shopping and if you compare how much quality you get
>>for the same price you will have to consider Koren pianos as, japanese pianos
>>are o0ver priced at this time and,their home pianos are not of the quality to
>>warrant the higher prices.
>>S.Lindenbau @aol.com
>>p.s. Please get back to me if I can be of any help
>>
>
>Oh boy, I can hardly wait to read the responses to this one....!
>
>
(You had to expect something)
My former roommate was a piano tech for a company here in Dallas which
sold Hyundai Pianos for a few months. They had an 80% return rate and
eventually went broke...partly because of the people returning the
Hyundai pseudo-pianos.
D*
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"If a President of the United States ever lied to the American people
he should resign."
- - - - - - - - - - Bill Clinton, at the height of Watergate in the summer of 1974,
during his race to become a U.S. Representative from Arkansas
John S. Gray
JG
Trey Behan
>Hyundai pianos are assembled of the highest quality German components.ONE
>gets
>tone from the strings and hammers.Hyundai uses Roslau Strings ,as does the
>finest german pianos including,Bosendorfer, Bechsteinothers.Hyundai uses
>Royal
>George highest density virgin wool <<etc., etc.>>
This is the standard spiel used over the years for painting rainbows over many
inexpensive brands of Korean pianos. It's generally fed to new salespeople by
the factory rep on his rare visits to stores.
Hyundai has yet to establish itself as a piano of any exceptional quality, but
may in the future. Why not just be honest and present the instrument as a
lower-cost alternative to the higher-grade pianos?
>japanese pianos
>are o0ver priced at this time and,their home pianos are not of the quality to
>warrant the higher prices.
Sorry, but sales figures and demand for Yamaha and Kawai contradict this
OPINION, unless you believe those thousands of buyers to be uniformly stupid.
Here's a tip: Make your post sound less like a sales pitch if you want it taken
seriously.
Here's another: Learn to spell semi-technical words like "hammer," "Delignit,"
and "pinblock," and don't shout generalities about "sounboard"(sic) voodoo in
CAPS. And a third: Tour a piano factory or two.
No offense intended, nothing personal...and good luck selling Hyundais until
your store qualifies for a Japanese piano franchise.
Trey
Dave Zappa
SLindenbau wrote:
,the Hyundai you can buy for the same amount
of money
will outperform The Japanese product ,now ,and in
the future.
Since you've been scolded for making your weak sales presentation on
the group I'll just add one more thing here for those who might actually
buy into your "German parts" drivel. This pitch actually came directly
from Samick, I got to hear the same "Klaus Fenner, Delignit, Royal George
(which is NOT German, but English FYI), soundboard, blah blah blah...."
story from our Samick rep 10 years ago. I have no quarrel with using
good quality parts, however, piano quality is determined by more than just
quality parts which is where... Hyundai/Maeri/Samick/Kohler/Wurlitzer/Chang/Weber/Knabe/insert
name of Korean piano here
don't come CLOSE to Japanese quality. Sorry Stan, we may have
been born at night, but it wasn't LAST night. Hyundai is a middle-grade
piano at best and if you REALLY beleive it on equal footing with Kawai
and Yamaha you are just fooling yourself. Please don't tell more
rookie salespeople this trash, it ends up making our industry as a whole
look stupid in the eyes of knowing consumers. It took me YEARS to
unlearn some of the filth that several reps and one of my former managers
heaped upon me.
Don
>Let's see Hyundai put it's name on the fallboard of a 9-footer!
>
>JG
They could sell it at Target as a blue light special...or was that
K-Mart???
SLindenbau
limited budget,and was comparing the home quality line of Japanese pianos
that can be purchased for X dollars with a HYUNDAI ,the low end of the
Japanese line today will not compare to the Hyundai which uses quality brand
name quality cmponennts.,enjoying lower labor cost advantages in Korea.It is
obvious that even Ymaha silently admits they cannot compete in the low er end
models by investing in China and manufacturing their Eterna brand pianos for
their U.S.
Incidently your comment recently about shit benches with pr e owned Yamaha
pianos was is another one I question,I have seen some excellent spade legged
benches supplied by Dealers with these pianos.
Icanunderstand your frustration.trying to justify thousands more for a piano
that will be a used piano a day after you deliver it,As most people know,aused
piano is juvalued by it,s condition.In my youth Iwas a sales exec with
Ronson,we use to say it was the sulphur in the mattches that gave people
cancer,but, we smiled while saying it.
yesterday was my first boot.
Stanley Lindenbaum
SLind...@aol.com
.
Dave Zappa
SLindenbau wrote:
I just hit the wrong key amoment ago,my appolgies for the incomplete messageWait a minute Stan. I may be opinionate but you aren't really responding to anything I rasied with my post regarding Hyundai. I never said Weinbach, I said Hyundai. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you claim that Hyundai pianos are of equal or superior quality to a Kawai or Yamaha (and I'm not talking Eterna here, and neither were you when you posted the original drivel). I responded essentially by saying that view was misguided at best. So, before you call me so "thhhhhouroughly" opinionated again, please respond to the subject matter at hand, Hyundai - not Weinbach.
,unsigned.
Stanley Lindenbaumafter thinking about Jimmy HSU comment regarding the WEINBERG piano from Korea
Ithink he may have seen a WEINBACH made in the CZECK REPULIC.
If we are discussing Grands Ithink WEIINBACH and all those brands Dave so is
thhhhhhhhoroughly opinionated about are ALL good pianos today.I hear well
meaning people bringing up facts that apply to pianos from a factory based on
the pianos made by that manufacturer ten or more years ago .The factory that
now makes components for Yamaha,s ETERNA brand made pianos in the 80,s that
were unusable.If one depressed a key,it was doubtful the key would
return.Today, they make an acceptable product..
Stan Lindenbaum
SLindenbau
I can go to dejanews and get the whole thing re-posted if you like. Or you can be a stand-up guy and either a) continue to take the position that Hyundai is of equal or better quality than Japanese-built products, or b) save some face (with this group anyway) and accept you represent a consumer-grade Korean-built piano that uses SOME German parts and is a decent piano for the price, but isn't designed to compete with the Japanese built pianos.
SLindenbau
SLindenbau
From Stan Lindenbaum,
Sorry I never sold any acoustic pianos in the southeast.Threason for the caps
is I am apoor typist and rushed my reply.Hyundai soundboards are 1/4 sawn
sitks spruce and the n a1/4 sawn sitka spruce ibonde by lamination to both
sides of th soundboard,making it more dimensionally stable.By the way If I
didn,t get angry at Dave,s comments you know I wasn,t the rep you are thinking
of.
Stan Lindenbaum
SLind...@aol.com
Trey Behan
>In my youth Iwas a sales exec with
>Ronson
And even then you had the reliable and world-renowned Zippo to contend with.
Life has been tough, hasn't it? :)
>Hyundai which uses quality brand
name quality cmponennts
>we use to say it was the sulphur in the mattches that gave people
>cancer
How could Ronson have ever let go of such an articulate, truthful "sales exec?"
It all worked out, though---I think your representation is a step up for
Hyundai.
Trey
SLindenbau
from
Stan Lindenbaum
SLind...@aol.com
Your comments are noted,however,I believe you are overlooking Jim Hsu and
hiiquiryto which I replied ,not your agenda.Heis interested in tonal
qualitylife ,and tha does depend on component quality.
Hyundai,Iagree,is a goodmiddle grade piano.Would you also please tell me what
grade you believe a Yamaha GH1tobe?
At any rate, I must say, I have enjoyed the enthusiasm which you and Bob
responded with.I think we may have even given Jim some information if nothing
else he knows there more than one opinion about various pianos.
Stan Lindenbaum.
p.s. igot the caps right anyway
SLindenbau
sure you think your credentials are great.My opinions are my own but, if I
quoted someone I would not take statements out of text, I wrote,W e used to say
,It,s the sulphur in the matches that give you cancer,but smiled ,as we said
it."It was in 1960,Ronson was much more highly regard lighter than Zippo.We
just talked about our own product .All home pianos have faults and so do
writers.
Dave Zappa
SLindenbau wrote:
Would you also please tell me what grade you believe a Yamaha GH1tobe?
Yamaha builds the GH1 as an upper-end consumer piano, and the GP1 as mid-level consumer quality piano. (Similar to the GM vs.GE Kawai series.) I believe that Yamaha's expertise in manufacturing is superior to any Korean company, so it is my sincere belief that the GH1 is a step above the Korean pianos. The most noticable upgrade for the extra dough is a better balanced and more responsive action. They are even starting to get the tone mellowed down a bit.
The GP1 is a down-graded version of the GH, and I believe it to be close to par with a well-built Korean piano such as a YC G157 or Sam SG155 / K&C SKG500 / whatever Hyundai / Wurlitzer C153, etc... I also believe the improved touch to be a significant reason to choose the Yamaha GP1 over the above-mentioned Korean pianos (action is the same as the GH to my knowledge). Name also means something to some people, and it certainly will effect long-term value. These all are mid-grade consumer pianos.
One thing I will mention regarding Wurly, Kohler, Hyundai, etc. These pianos all are all made by a different OEM. For example, the warranty can become an issue if the distributer decides to quit supporting the product (anyone familiar with the Colton/Daewoo fiasco can attest to that). OEM pianos also tend to be second-line products on a dealer's floor rather than the "featured" items, potentially causing limited prep or dealer support. I'm not saying every Hyundai or Kohler you run across won't be properly prepared or supported, but I can tell you we as a dealer spend WAY more dough prepping Yamaha than the Korean pianos. A Yamaha buyer is generally more demanding and wants a piano that plays at peak efficiency. Korean piano buyers tend to be price-driven more than anything, and if we don't sink $200 into prep we can keep the cost of the piano in check and most likely the end user will never know the difference.
At any rate, I must say, I have enjoyed the enthusiasm which you and Bob
responded with.I think we may have even given Jim some information if nothing
else he knows there more than one opinion about various pianos.
I agree and look forward to more spirited debate on the subject in the future.
Regards!
ISG 1949
department store and they had a 6 + foot Hundai there for my fun and enjoyment,
and ladies, I need to tell you, this is the first Korean piano that I have
played that was enjoyable. The damn YC's that I have had to deal with have all
had squeaks and sqwaks in the action, on both attack and release modes. The
YC's to me, also have no character or personality. The Korean Wurlitzers,
Webbers, etc. all seem harmless enough, but I must admit, that Hundai did not
cause me a lot of pain. In fact, it engendered a few smiles :)
BTW, I sell nothing for a living. I am a pianist/choral director with fussy
taste in pianos. FYI, my personal piano is a Falcone.
Irwin S. Goldberg-- Pianist, conductor, teacher, collector of old phonographs,
radios and music boxes.
NSDuncan
Please... let's not disparage cats or ladies by implying what the boys are
posting on this topic could be attributed to either of them.
Niles Duncan
VOCE88
>taste in pianos. FYI, my personal piano is a Falcone.
>Irwin S. Goldberg-- Pianist, conductor, teacher, collector of old
>phonographs,
>radios and music boxes.
>
>
Well, Irwin, I am sorry that you couldnt afford the Hyundai when you bought
your personal piano. ;)
Richard Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co
1 800 394 1117
VOCE88
>mid-level
>consumer quality piano. (Similar to the GM vs.GE Kawai series.) I believe
>that
>Yamaha's expertise in manufacturing is superior to any Korean company, so it
>is
>my sincere belief that the GH1 is a step above the Korean pianos. The most
>noticable upgrade for the extra dough is a better balanced and more
>responsive
>action. They are even starting to get the tone mellowed down a bit.
Hi Dave -
I must say, that I can't agree with you on this one. Zanzibar Blue is
Philadelphia's premeire jazz club - much like the Blue Note in NYC. Huge names
come through Philly and play here.
When they opened 6 years ago, the owner went right out and bought a GH 1.
The piano didn't last 6 months. The hammers wore prematurely, they had many
broken strings due to musicians trying to get sound out of the thing, tuning
instability, plus, many complaints from musicians on the tone of the piano.
So - after 6 months - and still on a budget - they went with a 6'1' Samick
that had proper prep before delivery. (Guess who did that ?) No where near the
same problems - and they spent the same on this piano that they had on the GH -
1.
Update - Since then - Zanzibar upgraded to a true artists instrument - a
1920's rebuilt Steinway O - and are now leasing a new Mason & Hamlin BB.
Richard Galassini
Cunningham piano Co
1 800 394 1117
Dave Zappa
VOCE88 wrote:
I can't agree with you on this one. Zanzibar Blue is
Philadelphia's premeire jazz club - much like the Blue Note in NYC. Huge names
come through Philly and play here.When they opened 6 years ago, the owner went right out and bought a GH 1.
The piano didn't last 6 months. The hammers wore prematurely, they had many
broken strings due to musicians trying to get sound out of the thing, tuning
instability, plus, many complaints from musicians on the tone of the piano.So - after 6 months - and still on a budget - they went with a 6'1' Samick
that had proper prep before delivery. (Guess who did that ?) No where near the
same problems - and they spent the same on this piano that they had on the GH - 1
Hi Rich:
As you know neither of these pianos is meant for use in an institutional
environment. Each piano is different which might explain why the
Samick lasted longer. Also, proper prep makes a huge difference in longevity
as well. I will also make the comment that larger Korean pianos (like
the SG185) are a good alternative to a GH1.
Jimmy Hsu
that this was assembled in Korea and so were the Yamaha pianos nowadays.
But a number of readers on this newsgroup, including a piano technician,
have written me vigorously disputing this.
As for the Hyundai pianos, people who have bought them are happy initially.
Trouble is the quality of these pianos are not very durable. After a few
years, the sound deteriorates (even with regular tuning) to unacceptable
levels. This seems to be the experience of those who bought Hyundais in
Singapore. We see many Hyundais in second hand stores here. They are as bad
as Chinese pianos.
SLindenbau wrote
>after thinking about Jimmy HSU's comment regarding the WEINBERG piano from
John S. Gray
(1) the individually-strung 5'9" grand whether under the Hyundai or
Stegler or whatever stencilled falboard you care to name:
That basic design is old as the hills. The Fenner-designed SG172 from
Samick was the model to replace it in Samick's product line as of 1985.
See & hear the 2 pianos side-by-side to understand the differences in
touch and tone.
(2) I have always found the SG-185 to be an odd bird. Not that much better
than the SG172, and just a heavier instrument. (Not as heavy as that
ancient 5'9" clone piano, though!) Samick's real gem is the SG-205, hands
down. If I were to buy a Korean anything , that would be the one.
More than just $.02..
JG
Don
>Meow ladies! This is fun reading this stuff. Actually, I had a gig in a
>department store and they had a 6 + foot Hundai there for my fun and enjoyment,
Too bad they did not have a real piano for you to play!
>Irwin S. Goldberg-- Pianist, conductor, teacher, collector of old phonographs,
>radios and music boxes.
