Young Chang or Steinway, what is really better?
Pierre-Normand Houle
recently started looking around. I am in Montreal, QC, Canada.
I saw some Yamahas (C1, C2, C3, C6 and S4) at one dealer and some Kawais
(RX1, RX3) at another. They all seemed fine instruments although the RX1, C1
and C2 were somewhat lacking bass, as should be expected for pianos their
lengths. I have yet to see the Kawai RX2 (They only had one and it was out
on loan). The RX2 is only slightly more expensive than the RX1 (although
much less than the C3). I think I like the mellower tone of Kawai's, as
compared to Yamaha's.
Today, I've been to the Young Chang dealer. They also had on the floor one
small used Kawai of an older model -- this is the first one I tried -- and
also one sub-6' Steinway with a "Sold" sign on it. The Kawai was nothing
special. I then tried a Young Chang PG-185 (6'1"). *Outch* This instrument
definitely needed voicing: much too bright and loud. The same was true of
the PG-213 (7'). The smaller PG-175 (5'9") had a much nicer tone.
One of my "test pieces" is fugue no. 14 (f sharp minor) from the first
volume of Bach Well-Tempered Clavier. This highlighted one exceptional
feature from that piano: A nice, rich signing tone in the tenor register (I
mean the second octave span below middle C). The third entry of the subject,
in the eight bar, was beautiful. I tried again that passage on the two
larger models but their sounds were so bright and brassy that I couldn't
hear that tenor voice clearly enough. (Actually, it's the bass voice of that
fugue but I mean to refer to the "tenor" region of the piano).
Are there other observations of Young Chang's ability to sing once properly
voiced and regulated? Is it a usual problem not being able to play soft on
these instruments?
The salesman told me they had Renner actions. The Kawai dealer also told me
that Young Chang's had Renner actions but that was his way to disparage.
Renner actions! (His point was really that Renner actions are no guaranty of
a good piano, since Young Changs have them. But he went on to say that
Renner makes good action parts for upper range pianos, and cheap parts for
YC's!)
The action seemed nice to me. Do they really have full Renner actions or
only some Renner parts in the action?
Here comes the preposterous stuff: After I've tried the YCs, I went on to
try the Steinway, just as a point of comparison. This one instrument was
really ill. The tone was awfully thin and metallic. It sounded like a broken
xylophone. The salesman commented: "Ēa ne se compare pas ą un Young Chang, n
'est-ce pas?" ("It doesn't compare to a Young Chang, does it?"). With that
much I could agree. But I remarked that this particular Steinway had
obviously something wrong. Steinways don't usually sound like that. He did
not acknowledge my comment. He just said that Steinways are not what they
once were and that, today, a Young Chang is so much better than any
Steinway!
We then returned to the front of the show room (I was the only customer in
the place) where I tried a Pramberger JP-185 (displayed 28000$ CAD). The
salesman eschewed several times my question about what difference there was
between the Pramberger an the "regular" Young Chang line. He only said that
Pramberger was a former Steinway designer who now designs all Young Chang
pianos.
He also said that all prices would go up 20% in March, so, if I've liked one
of the pianos I've tried, I shouldn't wait. He then noted how good
investments good pianos were. If I buy now, he said, in five years my Young
Chang will have doubled its value!
This morning I also saw a 1896 restored Heintzman (6 feet). It has the
original soundboard and action (new Renner hammers). This was a pretty nice
piano that was selling for 12000$ CAD. There is a quite noticeable change of
tone across the bass-treble break and the action is imperfect and somewhat
"spongy". They told me that the tone could be equalized easily with proper
voicing and that the action needs to be broken in: I only need to play it a
lot for several months. Yup. The action in that piano is 110 years old but
it's not broken in yet!
Larry
>The salesman told me they had Renner actions (Young Chang)
None of the Young Chang pianos have Renner actions, or use Renner parts.
>The Kawai dealer also told me
>that Young Chang's had Renner actions but that was his way to disparage.
>Renner actions!
So now we know the Kawai salesman was just as big a liar as the Young Chang
salesman.
>Here comes the preposterous stuff:
I thought what they'd told you so far was pretty preposterous myself, but let's
hear it:
>The tone (Steinway) was awfully thin and metallic. It sounded like a broken
xylophone. The salesman commented: It doesn't compare to a Young Chang, does
it?"
This is why the piano has a sold tag on it. It isn't really sold, but is being
used to trash Steinway, and to try to get customers to believe that a Young
Chang is a better piano. This is slimy sales tactic is called "nailing it to
the floor". They have the Steinway "nailed to the floor" with the sold tag on
it, and have the piano set up purposely to sound terrible. Then they point out
to you how bad it sounds, and how good their Young Changs sound in comparison,
and then tell you it is a better piano than the Steinway. It could have easily
been some other brand, it's just that in this case they were trying to make you
believe the YCs are better than a Steinway.
What you have is a dirtball of a salesman, working in a dirtball dealer's
store. He is a liar, and is unethical. (Was I too vague? ;-) )
My advice would be to find another dealership to do business with, one who will
act professional and sell his products on their merits instead of
misrepresenting his products and trashing his competition.
The truth of it is a Young Chang will never sound or play like a premium piano,
Steinway or any other one. And even if by some miracle a tech was able to make
you think it did, it wouldn't maintain it very long. A Young Chang is a mass
produced assembly line piano of good quality, with a useful musical life of
about 30-35 years, a good quality midlevel piano that you throw away when it
dies. A Steinway is an overpriced shell of its former self, but even at that it
is a premium grade instrument far superior to anything Young Chang will ever
do, and one that will last twice as long and then can be rebuilt to last twice
as long again.
>Are there other observations of Young Chang's ability to sing once properly
>voiced and regulated?
Asian pianos cannot sing. They are too percussive, their sustain is too short,
and the tone is too two dimensional to sing.
Larry Fletcher
Pianos Inc
Atlanta GA
Dealer/technician
Doing the work of three men.....Larry, Curly, & Moe
Want to visit another piano related messageboard? Go to the piano discussion
group on my website:
pianoguy
> Asian pianos cannot sing.
=====================
They probably don't know the words.
--
pianoguy
return email disabled
Pierre-Normand Houle
news:20020223223425...@mb-cn.aol.com...
> My advice would be to find another dealership to do business with, one who
will
> act professional and sell his products on their merits instead of
> misrepresenting his products and trashing his competition.
Larry, I'd be more than happy to be able to follow your sound
advice. But there is precious few dealers in Montreal. So I've
set out to judge the instruments I can find on their own merits
and not listen to dealer's "inaccuracies" and "exaggerations".
When I find a piano that pleases me, new or used, I shall have
it assessed by a good technician and then negotiate tightly.
> Asian pianos cannot sing. They are too percussive, their sustain is too
short,
> and the tone is too two dimensional to sing.
There seems to be nowhere to find nice "second tier" American
or European pianos here.
The biggest piano store in Montreal officially deals in Yamaha
and Baldwin grands. But he never has any new Baldwins on the
floor. He has two used ones that were not in very good shape
when I saw them. The model L was more harsh and metallic sounding
than any other piano I've ever seen. They both had mushy actions
(L & R models).
The other two largest dealers sell only Kawai and Young Chang
respectively. There is also a dealer that I have not visited yet who has
Steinway, Bösendorfer and Boston. Of these, only the Boston might
I afford provided one of them pleases me more than the Kawai RX2
(which seems a better value). Of course, Boston is a Kawai made
piano. Can Bostons sing nevertheless?
There are one or two rebuilders I haven't seen yet. I'll have to
tour neighboring cities also.
BTW. The title of that thread was meant as a joke.
R. Martin
Un piano allemand ou même français, ( Schimmel, Pleyel, Sauter, Seiler,
Grotrian etc.... ) serait moins cher qu'un Steinway et ne serait pas une
casserole comme les chinois et coréens !
Regine
Radu Focshaner
I beg your pardon, Regine, but I have one of these korean "casseroles"
- a SAMICK (though until I was 17, I had a german J.L.Duysen). Do you
have any idea how expensive the german pianos are ? An upright IBACH
costs here more than 12K US$ .It is true though, that until I bought the
Samick (for the kids, my mother paid for it), I wasn't aware that pianos
need so many "repairs" :-).
Best regards,
Radu
--
========================================
I really have no life...
I go around reading posts and,without having any original thought,
or adding anything to the subject,simply make short simpleminded
remarQs.
R. Martin
> I beg your pardon, Regine, but I have one of these korean "casseroles"
> - a SAMICK (though until I was 17, I had a german J.L.Duysen).
I rent a Samick every summer for our country house, and it does sound like a
casserole, even compared to the Petrof we had before.
Do you
> have any idea how expensive the german pianos are ?
I have no idea of their prices in the USA, but here, depending on the model
they are not so much more expensive than Asiatic pianos. A good upright
Yamaha is the same price than an average upright Schimmel for instance.
An upright German piano will cost more or less the same as a baby grand
Korean.
Aren't then Czech pianos an affordable alternative to Chinese, Belarus and
Korean pianos ?
Regine
Richard Galassini
>>
>> Un piano allemand ou même français, ( Schimmel, Pleyel, Sauter, Seiler,
>> Grotrian etc.... ) serait moins cher qu'un Steinway et ne serait pas une
>> casserole comme les chinois et coréens !
Dear Regine,
In today's marketplace we should include other european instruments that
don't come with as much of a premium as the German and French pianos mentioned
(although they are all fine pianos).
Estonia and Petrof come to mind first. Also, I personally think that Korean and
Chinese pianos would make a fine casserole. ;-)
Richard Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co
Phila,. Pa.
1 (800) 394-1117
URL:http://voce88.tripod.com/richspianopage
Greg Marino
"Pierre-Normand Houle" <houlepn...@attglobal.net> wrote:
> set out to judge the instruments I can find on their own merits
> and not listen to dealer's "inaccuracies" and "exaggerations".
> When I find a piano that pleases me, new or used, I shall have
> it assessed by a good technician and then negotiate tightly.
I don't like to plagiarize other people's words, but my advice to you is
this:
Set out to judge the instruments you can find on their own merits
and not listen to dealer's "inaccuracies" and "exaggerations".
When you find a piano that pleases you, new or used, have
it assessed by a good technician and then negotiate tightly.
Boston's are nice piano's - nicer than the Kawai equivalent, but not at the
premium price demanded by Steinway/Boston. Email me privately and I'll give
you my advice on negotiating price for the "piano of your dreams."
--
Greg Marino
========================
Favorite Quote:
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day!"
"Pierre-Normand Houle" <houlepn...@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:6G_d8.34414$gC4.1...@weber.videotron.net...
Larry
>you my advice on negotiating price for the "piano of your dreams."
>
Why do you sound like a salesman to me? What is it about advising him on
negotiating price that you can't discuss here in public? This is two posts now
where you have asked the person to talk to you privately. No offense, but this
is a public forum after all, and as such it is usually the case that when
someone tries to persuade a poster to talk privately it is a salesman using the
forum to fish for customers that's doing it.
That may not be your intent. But it sure looks like it to me. If you are not
motivated by your own self interests, your advice should be given in public so
it can benefit everyone. If you *are* trying to pull these two individuals into
a private discussion for the purpose of trying to sell them something, you are
engaging in the very kind of slimy sales tactics both of these people are
trying to avoid.
Maybe I'm wrong about your motives. But I think a good way to keep things on
the up and up would be for you to say what you have to say openly, so that any
"inaccuracies or exaggerations" that *you* may give these two people can be
corrected in the court of public discussion.
Radu Focshaner
>
> > I beg your pardon, Regine, but I have one of these korean "casseroles"
> > - a SAMICK (though until I was 17, I had a german J.L.Duysen).
>
> I rent a Samick every summer for our country house, and it does sound like a
> casserole, even compared to the Petrof we had before.
I thought you bought a few months ago a BLONDEL, 1.20m, german
materials, built in the Czech republic, Renner "mecahnics". By the way,
when did you sell it to buy a Seiler ? And why is a Petrof soooo bad ?
Radu
Coupez sur le Nutella !
Pierre-Normand Houle
> >>
> >> Un piano allemand ou même français, ( Schimmel, Pleyel, Sauter, Seiler,
> >> Grotrian etc.... ) serait moins cher qu'un Steinway et ne serait pas une
> >> casserole comme les chinois et coréens !
There is a Seiler representative in New-York. I've contacted him and he's
supposed to call me back.
There seems to be no dealers who carry Pleyel or Grotrian in Canada.
I also wrote to Seiler.
I am not hopeful that I will find these brands around but thanks for
the suggestions anyway.
> Dear Regine,
>
> In today's marketplace we should include other european instruments that
> don't come with as much of a premium as the German and French pianos mentioned
> (although they are all fine pianos).
>
> Estonia and Petrof come to mind first. Also, I personally think that Korean and
> Chinese pianos would make a fine casserole. ;-)
The only Canadian Petrof dealer seems to be in Markham, Ontario. Not very
convenient for me. I've contacted Estonia by e-mail and am waiting for an answer.
Tom Shaw
I wanted to send this to you privately but your e-mail address appears to be
bogus.
Anyway I subscribe to a ng which puts out jokes in French so I am interested
in French words.
I looked up "casserole" in my somewhat old fashioned dictionary and it said
it means "saucepan" and secondarily an old fashioned watch which we would
call a turnip. Would you please tell what you mean by "casserole" in
relation to a piano? As you know the English usage for casserole doesn't
seem very applicable either...unless you mean a mess:-).
TIA
TS
"R. Martin" <x...@xx.org> wrote in message
news:a5a3le$o7t$1...@unlisys.unlisys.net...
Pierre-Normand Houle
"Tom Shaw" <a000...@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:2798048CC0D7FA97.E8AA8339...@lp.airnews.net...
> I looked up "casserole" in my somewhat old fashioned dictionary and it said
> it means "saucepan" and secondarily an old fashioned watch which we would
> call a turnip. Would you please tell what you mean by "casserole" in
> relation to a piano? As you know the English usage for casserole doesn't
> seem very applicable either...unless you mean a mess:-).
It means that the sound of the piano evoques the sound little
kids produce when they use sets of saucepans as a drum kits.
Tom Shaw
TSnews:jrce8.12302$pZ3.2...@wagner.videotron.net...
Greg Marino
I am not a salesman. But from what I
understand, you and many of the people who respond to these type of posts
(i.e. people looking for advice on how and where to buy a piano) are Piano
Dealers. I don't mean to set you and the other dealers who post on this
board in an unfavorable light. I actually think you and the other dealers
who post on this board ARE doing the general piano-buying public a great
service. But in the end aren't YOU the Salesmen? Isn't it in your best
interest to make the sale AND to do so at the highest price possible? (I
believe they call that capitalism.)
So who is trying to call the kettle black? Are you upset that you will not
be included in the private discussions and emails I have with other people
in the world? People who, like me a short time back, are the ones putting
THEIR money on the table - and eventually into YOUR pocket as they go
through the process of making probably the 2nd or 3rd most expensive single
item purchase in their lives? Why shouldn't we have private discussions on
how to negotiate a better deal. You Dealers hold all the information about
the transaction and try to leave us unknowing consumers to guess at the
facts and to feel sorry about how little money you make on the transaction
($6-10 THOUSAND DOLLARS in some cases - boo-hoo!!!). Of course, not all
dealers are that shallow but many are.
Honestly, I asked those people this morning to write to me in deference to
the dealers who post on this board. Maybe I was being naive. I didn't want
to tick you guys off by expanding on the truths put forth by people like
you(s) and Larry Fine in the ONLY publication available to the general
piano-buying public about buying a piano. I feel that Larry COULD say the
things I say in my "private" advice but then the Piano manufacturers and
Dealers wouldn't talk to him in the future nor give him information to
update his publication. (See he wants to make money too!)
You (those dealers posting on this board) DO provide a valuable service both
when selling pianos, educating those who want to buy and by posting on
public bulletin boards.
But now you've ticked me off (partially at least, can't you tell???)
In the end, you want our money and we want to give as little as possible to
you - while NOT putting you out of business in the process. If I were to
post publicly what I told them (Gerald last month and Pierre today), I felt
that it would cause a stir with the good people/dealers who post on this
site. I felt that that would lead to a negative vibe on this News Group. I
didn't want to be the cause of such negativism. (After reading some of the
more recent posts, negativism is running rampant on this board!) But again
I guess I was being naive. And maybe now it's too late for childlike
altruism.
Now I'm just being ticked-off by your comments. I'm glad I didn't post my
advice.
OK, now I'm just being petty and childish - but you DID accuse me!!
If Gerald or Pierre want to repost the emails and advice I've sent to them,
they should feel free - 1st amendment rights and all. Besides, I didn't
copyright my advice...yet...maybe I should. What do you think Gerald -
should I publish this? How much would you pay for the advice I gave you?
--
--
Greg Marino
========================
Favorite Quote:
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day!"
"Larry" <larryin...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20020224123519...@mb-ce.aol.com...
Larry
>understand, you and many of the people who respond to these type of posts
>(i.e. people looking for advice on how and where to buy a piano) are Piano
>Dealers.
So what? The things we say here are said in public debate - if we try to spin
it to our advantage, rest assured that someone else will call our hand on it
quickly.
>But in the end aren't YOU the Salesmen? Isn't it in your best
>interest to make the sale AND to do so at the highest price possible?
Any dealer who thinks he is going to make a sale here is as stupid as the logic
you are applying to your reason for not allowing what you have to say to be
held to public scrutiny.
>So who is trying to call the kettle black?
Excuse me, but *I* am the one who is asking you to present your information for
public discussion and debate. Once a statement is made in a public forum, no
one can spin it to their advantage anymore. It is only that information that is
spoon fed in private that escapes criticism. You are arguing in favor of being
allowed to give information by whispering in their ear. I am arguing in favor
of shouting it from the rooftop. Your way invites deception. My way removes the
ability to deceive.
>Are you upset that you will not
>be included in the private discussions and emails I have with other people
>in the world?
No, I'm concerned for those who could be taken advantage of by your rude use of
this forum to present them with information that could be incorrect. The only
way to know if it is correct is to discuss it openly and let everyone benefit
from it if it is worth anything, or let everyone tear it to shreds if you are
giving bad information. This is the purpose of this forum, and to do otherwise
is taking advantage of its members, not to mention rude.
>Why shouldn't we have private discussions on how to negotiate a better deal.
Because it invites abuse, inaccuracies, and it doesn't allow others to benefit
from the information that will come from a discussion. All it does is protect
you from criticism.
>Honestly, I asked those people this morning to write to me in deference to
>the dealers who post on this board.
Sure you did. I have a bridge to sell you too.
> I feel that Larry COULD say the
>things I say in my "private" advice but then the Piano manufacturers and
>Dealers wouldn't talk to him in the future nor give him information to
>update his publication. (See he wants to make money too!)
Maybe he didn't say it because your information is worthless. No one will know
until you present it for public discussion.
>But now you've ticked me off
Good. Maybe you'll get embarrassed too, for taking advantage of the forum this
way. Maybe it will cause you to see the precedent you are trying to set, and
the one I am trying to stop. And maybe it will cause you to do in a public
forum what you are *supposed* to do in one, which is to present your comments
in public.
>OK, now I'm just being petty and childish - but you DID accuse me!!
No, I asked you a question. Thanks to your response, now I *am* accusing you.
>Besides, I didn't
>copyright my advice...yet...
Helloooo davey!!!!
>What do you think Gerald -
>should I publish this? How much would you pay for the advice I gave you?
Why should anyone pay you for advice? It is available here for free. And if it
is discussed openly in public, the errors in it get removed. Let me assure you
one more time - maybe you and one or two people you talked to privately think
you have some sort of valuable "inside" information, but you do not. Every
aspect of pricing has been discussed here in great depth, many many times.
I'm not trying to make you mad, though I realize you are. But you are mad
because you won't accept the obvious - if your information is worth anything,
it will stand up to public discussion. I think you know that it will fall flat
under public discussion, and are afraid to subject yourself to a debate of this
information. But mostly, I think you are rudely taking advantage of the members
of this newsgroup by showing no respect for the rules which we all try to abide
by. *This* is where you need to address your thoughts. Personally, I don't care
what you tell people in private. But to use this forum to fish for people to
tell it to is against the spirit of this forum, and is disrespectful of its
members and lurkers.
R. Martin
Would you please tell what you mean by "casserole" in
> relation to a piano?
It's a familiar expression which works for a music instrument which does not
sound well ... You can also say from someone that he sings or plays the
violin ( the guitar, the piano ) like a casserole.
The bogus address is not to be anonymous, but because I'm fed up with spam.
If I had put a "genuine looking" bogus address like "Regi...@hotmail.com"
people could have written to me, this is why I put a bogus looking bogus
address.
Regine
R. Martin
>
> I thought you bought a few months ago a BLONDEL, 1.20m, german
> materials, built in the Czech republic, Renner "mecahnics".
DOn0t you know what happened to the Blondel ? I did buy it, but the movers
who brought it home damaged it as well as my staircase. As I had not paid it
I sent it back to his dealer because I did not want a damaged piano and I
wanted the insurance of the mover to pay for the damages in my staircase.
I ended buying a Schimmel 120, at a good price. I went further in France, so
I had a TVA refund ( close to 20%), then another 15% on the tax free price.
The dealer wanted, I think, to start to settle down and sell his pianos in
Switzerland.
The Petrof we had before was not really bad, but you cannot compare the
sound of a 105 Petrof and the one of a 120 Schimmel. Even -I- who is
everything but a musician could hear the difference.
Before buying the Blondel and the Schimmel, I had seen Seiler, Yamaha,
Grotrian, Zimmerman, Sauter, Steingraeber, Kemble and other brands I don't
remember right now.
Regine
Jian
> sound of a 105 Petrof and the one of a 120 Schimmel. Even -I- who is
> everything but a musician could hear the difference.
>
> Before buying the Blondel and the Schimmel, I had seen Seiler, Yamaha,
> Grotrian, Zimmerman, Sauter, Steingraeber, Kemble and other brands I don't
> remember right now.
>
> Regine
Do you mean that your Schimmel is BETTER than Petrof and others?
Sith'ch
"Greg Marino" <gma...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:OQge8.39317$2v1.1...@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com...
> Larry,
>
> I am not a salesman. But from what I
> understand, you and many of the people who respond to these type of posts
> (i.e. people looking for advice on how and where to buy a piano) are Piano
> Dealers. I don't mean to set you and the other dealers who post on this
> board in an unfavorable light. I actually think you and the other dealers
> who post on this board ARE doing the general piano-buying public a great
> service. But in the end aren't YOU the Salesmen? Isn't it in your best
> interest to make the sale AND to do so at the highest price possible? (I
> believe they call that capitalism.)
Greg,
Did you KNOW that using CAPITAL LETTERS the way you do is the internet
equivalent of those JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL GIRLS who always used to use CIRCLES
or HEARTS to dot their I's and would UNDERLINE all the words that needed
EMPHASIS?
Netheads typically use _underlines_ to make the same point if it's really
necessary and use smilies to indicate humor, etc. Clear and consistent
syntax, along with good word choice is able to handle most expression
problems.
R. Martin
>
> Do you mean that your Schimmel is BETTER than Petrof and others?
I mean that my 120 Schimmel is better than the 105 Petrof we leased before.
The Grotrian, Seiler and Sauter I tried were sounding beautifully but they
were much more expensive than the Schimmel so I did not buy them. I also
tried a Zimmerman which I thought had a nice sound and was cheaper than the
Schimmel but I did not like its design. Moreover it was a 1m35 and it was
too high for my staircase.
My last choice was between a Pleyel Academy and the Schimmel 120 I. I
prefered the Schimmel even if I was a little upset not to buy a French
piano.
YOu know the old saying "I prefer my children to my cousins, but I prefer my
cousins to my neighbors."
Buying European is a political act as well on our side of the World.
Regine
Radu Focshaner
>
> >
> > I thought you bought a few months ago a BLONDEL, 1.20m, german
> > materials, built in the Czech republic, Renner "mecahnics".
>
> DOn0t you know what happened to the Blondel ? I did buy it,
How can anyone possibly buy a piano with BLONDEL as its name ? So
feminine, without any character. A real piano should carry a name like
"Alexander Zoerner" or "Karl Stirmer" . BTW , in hungarian a piano is
called "zongora" - that's a name !
Radu
Boycot Ferrero ! They make us look fat !
Eve Rybody
wrote:
Mr. Sith'ch, how do YOU know that Mr. Marino wasn't going for the
JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL GIRL effect? Besides, your underlines only seem to
underline spaces at each end of the word which you presumably intended
to underline. What does THAT mean? One must also feel free *not* to
use smilies, because they might deprive the author the many benefits
of being misunderstood. Your interpretation of the implied necessity
of smilies may very well be a misinterpretation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You
never know, somebody may even be so bold as to use a smiley in
communicating what is really a very despicable and subversive idea :)
Eve Rybody
All the World Over
Greg Marino
I'll try to incorporate these techniques in my future posts!
Thanks!
--
Greg Marino
========================
Favorite Quote:
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day!"
"Sith'ch" <nos...@spamity.spam> wrote in message
news:L7me8.5684$wF2.292...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
Greg Marino
it!) ;)
--
Greg Marino
========================
Favorite Quote:
"Even a broken clock is right twice a day!"
"Eve Rybody" <1...@MainSt.com> wrote in message
news:3c7a33aa...@News.CIS.DFN.DE...
Sonarrat Citalis
No; netheads type like this.
OMG D00D U GOTZ 2 HAV DAT!!121!~
Or:
HEhlp! ahioOo kizjckeD DiIrt inNntOo mMy EhYeZsz!
Or in meaningless quotes:
~Divide by cucumber error. Please reinstall universe and try again~
-Sonarrat.
Sith'ch
"Eve Rybody" <1...@MainSt.com> wrote in message
> underline spaces at each end of the word which you presumably intended
> to underline. What does THAT mean?
It means that one knows how to use the conventions developed early in the
history of usenet. Note that using plain ascii text there is _no_ way to get
an underline except by using the free-standing character.
dw...@cix.compulink.co.uk
> The bogus address is not to be anonymous, but because I'm fed up with
> spam.
> If I had put a "genuine looking" bogus address like
> "Regi...@hotmail.com" people could have written to me,
> this is why I put a bogus looking bogus address.
If you get no spam as a result, this must mean that human beings are
involved. Why would a machine know not to try x...@xx.org ?
This is a new and profound philosophical point for me. Human beings can
be disabled.
===
| \
| \ dwi...@cix.compulink.co.uk
| [] D Dan Wilson (Friends of the Pianola Institute, London)
| / antispam: remove 2 if emailing
| /
===
R. Martin
>
> If you get no spam as a result, this must mean that human beings are
> involved. Why would a machine know not to try x...@xx.org ?
>
All the machines of the world can send email to this address, I don't
care... It's just like you add 2 at your address, the same kind of anti-spam
measure.
Regine
Don
Hmmm...Yugo or Mercedes. Which is really better?
How many Yugos do you see on the road today? Would you really want to
take your date on a long serious trip in a Yugo? Would you want to
use a Yugo as an example of fine engineering?
Just curious.
D*
These comments are meant to offend everyone equally. If, for some reason you are not offended, please write me with a description of
yourself including your name, race, weight, religious views, political party, strong opinions, physical disabilities and anything else that you are
touchy about, and I will try to offend you in a future comment. Complaints should be emailed to: bit...@likeiactuallycare.com
R. Martin
>
> Hmmm...Yugo or Mercedes. Which is really better?
I am the proud owner of a Mercedes ML SUV, and I think a Yougo or a Trabant
would have been an appropriate alternative to my car:-)
Not the mechanics which is fine, but everything else falls apart.
Regine
Tom Shaw
sumdumguy
On Saturday, February 23, 2002 at 10:34:25 PM UTC-5, Larry wrote:
> >From: "Pierre-Normand Houle"
>
>
> >The salesman told me they had Renner actions (Young Chang)
>
> None of the Young Chang pianos have Renner actions, or use Renner parts.
>
> >The Kawai dealer also told me
> >that Young Chang's had Renner actions but that was his way to disparage.
> >Renner actions!
>
> So now we know the Kawai salesman was just as big a liar as the Young Chang
> salesman.
>
> >Here comes the preposterous stuff:
>
> I thought what they'd told you so far was pretty preposterous myself, but let's
> hear it:
>
> >The tone (Steinway) was awfully thin and metallic. It sounded like a broken
> xylophone. The salesman commented: It doesn't compare to a Young Chang, does
> it?"
>
> This is why the piano has a sold tag on it. It isn't really sold, but is being
> used to trash Steinway, and to try to get customers to believe that a Young
> Chang is a better piano. This is slimy sales tactic is called "nailing it to
> the floor". They have the Steinway "nailed to the floor" with the sold tag on
> it, and have the piano set up purposely to sound terrible. Then they point out
> to you how bad it sounds, and how good their Young Changs sound in comparison,
> and then tell you it is a better piano than the Steinway. It could have easily
> been some other brand, it's just that in this case they were trying to make you
> believe the YCs are better than a Steinway.
>
> What you have is a dirtball of a salesman, working in a dirtball dealer's
> store. He is a liar, and is unethical. (Was I too vague? ;-) )
> My advice would be to find another dealership to do business with, one who will
> act professional and sell his products on their merits instead of
> misrepresenting his products and trashing his competition.
>
> Steinway or any other one. And even if by some miracle a tech was able to make
> you think it did, it wouldn't maintain it very long. A Young Chang is a mass
> produced assembly line piano of good quality, with a useful musical life of
> about 30-35 years, a good quality midlevel piano that you throw away when it
> dies. A Steinway is an overpriced shell of its former self, but even at that it
> is a premium grade instrument far superior to anything Young Chang will ever
> do, and one that will last twice as long and then can be rebuilt to last twice
> as long again.
>
> >Are there other observations of Young Chang's ability to sing once properly
> >voiced and regulated?
> Asian pianos cannot sing. They are too percussive, their sustain is too short,
> and the tone is too two dimensional to sing.
>
>
>
>
>
gregh...@giftedplayer.com
What piano did you decide to buy, and why?
Thanks in advance. Greg