Yamaha serial numbers

[Max Kuenkel]

I'm in the market for a used upright, possibly a Yamaha. The
following price list for some used Yamaha uprights was mailed to me on
my request:

model serial# price interior exterior

U1H H2949300 PE 3295 92% A-
W104 W3045906 PW 4250 92% A-
U3 74052 PE 2295 85% C
U3H H1429191 PE 2295 90% A-
U3H H2862820 PE 3595 93% A-
U3A3 A4028353 PE 4250 95% A-
W102 W2124257 SW 3450 91% A-
W103B 1919546 SW 4650 88% A-
UX X3107460 PE 4795 94% A-

When I saw this, I thought: gee, that sounds pretty good. But then I
remembered all the warnings about gray market Yamahas, so I did some
research on serial numbers, and I couldn't find ANY of these numbers,
not even the correct formats.

I checked the Yamaha serial number page
( http://www.yamaha.com/ycaservice/group004/ageyamahapiano.htm ), then
I checked the Japanese equivalent of that page, for the Japanese market
( http://www.yamaha.co.jp/english/product/piano/about/s_num/s_num.html),
then I checked the current line up of Yamaha verticals built for the
Japanese market ( http://www.yamaha.co.jp/product/pi/prd/upr/upra.html )
and for the rest of Asia
( http://www.yamaha.co.jp/english/product/piano/product/asia/pl.html )
but nowhere could I find information on the age of the pianos in the
above price list..

I would like to be able to understand Yamaha serial numbers and
model numbers. What does the prefix "H" mean in a serial number? How
about the suffix "PE" ? What model is W103B?Is there a webpage or a book
that conveniently lists and explains all of this information, enabling
you to look up older models, or the serial number format AXXXXXX PE, so
that you may know what you're looking at, without having to ask the
dealer, or make a phone call to Yamaha every time? Does the Pierce
Piano Atlas have all this?

I don't know if I can trust what a dealer tells me. Here's the latest
example of a questionable dealership:
http://www.abcpiano.com/new1167.html .
On the top of the page, they ask: "Who can you trust?" Well, maybe not
them, after they apparently plagiarized the superb grand piano action
animation and several sections of text from Mr. Lands excellent website
http://www.musicplay.com/ ( I already it called to his attention).

Of course I wouldn't buy a used piano without having my RPT check it,
but I want to do as much preparation as I can, on my own, first. I
appreciate any advice.

[Max Kuenkel]

Thanks, that worked. I checked the webpages and was now able to determine
the approximate dates of manufacture.

"Niles Duncan" <nsdu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001008232129...@ng-ci1.aol.com...
> Ignore the letters in the serial numbers. What matters is the number. as
in
> the U1H H2949300 PE what matters is the number 2949300. According to the
> Pierce Piano Atlas this is 1980. Take the usually seven digit number in
the
> serial by itself and look it up in Pierce or on the Yamaha serial number
page
> and you will be able to determine the age.
>
>
> Niles Duncan
> http://www.pianosource.com
>

[Niles Duncan]

[Dave Zappa]

Max Kuenkel wrote in message <39E0D46B...@seatac.net>...

>I'm in the market for a used upright, possibly a Yamaha. The
>following price list for some used Yamaha uprights was mailed to me on
>my request:
>
>model serial# price interior exterior
>
>U1H H2949300 PE 3295 92% A-
>W104 W3045906 PW 4250 92% A-

etc..

Max:

This is most likely an abbreviated version of the list that gets faxed to
piano dealers 2-3 times a week from various importers. I promise you that
every singe one of the pianos on this list are grey market pianos, and if my
experience with them holds true I would knock at least 15% off the interior
numbers and a hlaf a grade off the exterior. Make absolutely sure you
don't buy a grey market piano until a tech has thouroughly evelauated it's
condition.

Good Luck!
Dave

[Rick Clark]

I'm not a dealer, but I agree with Dave. I've been shopping for these
pianos with some of my customers, and how they arrived at numbers like
"95%" or "A" is way beyond me. All I can say is, these numbers seemed
quite "optimistic", amounting to BS, and are probably arrived at by
someone who will profit from the high number. They were certainly NOT
"95% like new".

This is not to say that I haven't seen some very nice pianos amoung
these grays. Some were perfectly good pianos at fair prices. But I had
to ignore their grading system and look for myself to find them. The
funny thing was the dealer himself had no idea which ones were really
the good ones. He just went by the grading sheet he was given.

One of the pianos I advised my customer to get turned out to be one of
only 2 pianos in the store (out of about 75 pianos) that were NOT
grays, but locally bought used pianos. I didn't know it at the time.
It was just the only one that was actually in as good condition as the
dealer was claiming all the others to be in.

Rick Clark

[Barrie]

They are all grey market imports the prefix letter is the place of
manufacture e.g.. E224066 = 1988 England. (you will not find many in
the US if any, made for Europe) As others have pointed out get a good
Tuner who is _clued in_ to the pit falls of grey market pianos. Any
pianos from Japan before 2144000 walk away fast.

Barrie,

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