WW Kimball Info and history?
med...@home.com.nospam
light oak finish. I did a bit of a history look and found it was made
in the US and the company made Conn pianos as well. I wonder if anyone
has any more history they can supply? They are no longer in business.
I'd like to find out a ball park estimate of the original cost of the
piano, and what it might be worth on today's market. Thanks
--
pianoguy
> I just picked up a 12 year old WW Kimball 42" upright piano.
Could you please post the serial number?
--
pianoguy
return email disabled
Larry
Started in Chicago in 1857. Built pretty good pianos until labor unions killed
them off in the late 50s, when a furniture maker in Jasper Indiana bought the
company and moved it to Indiana. He also bought Bosendorfer shortly after, as
well as the Herrberger Brooks action manufacturer in England, maker of the
Schwander and Langer actions. Soon became the largest producer of pianos in the
world. Renamed Kimball International in the 70s, the company diversified until
it grew to be a fortune 500 company with holdings and subsidiaries all over the
world, with over a billion+ in annual sales.
Their products range from standing furniture grade hardwood forests in about
half the states in the country (my understanding is that they are the 3rd
largest owner of hardwood forests in the US - the government is first, then
Georgia Pacific, then Kimball) to wood products, lumber mills, office
furniture, hotel furniture, telescopes, computer componentry for IBM, General
Motors, NASA, caskets, contract cabinet manufacturing for other piano makers,
TV manufacturers, speaker mfgs, a plastics division that makes molded plastic
parts for just about everyone under the sun, they own banks, insurance
companies, and other financial institutions, plus about a hundred other things
- but you get the point. Stopped building pianos in 1995 because it was no
longer profitable for them. The company is still in business, and is even
larger today than in 95. They just don't build pianos anymore. In short, they
did what Baldwin tried to do, only they succeeded, because they had excellent
management who didn't walk around saying "We're Kimball. We don't make
mistakes". Instead of worrying about people bragging on them, they built what
the majority of the public asked for. Pretty, cheap pianos. It would be my
guess that Kimball made more money from the piano industry than any other
company ever, with the possible exception of Yamaha.
The pianos were of mediocre to average quality, about equal to most of the US
built consoles and studios of the day. What they lacked in quality they made up
for in a blue ribbon service department, and positive proactive attitude toward
customer service. During their last 5-6 years they began improving the designs
and overall quality until they had become a totally acceptable piano about the
time they decided to quit.
Over the years they bought out some other manufacturers as well, such as Conn
and Krakauer. Other names they owned for stencil were Whitney, Whitmore,
Jasper-American, Hinze, Harrison, Schuerman, DeVoe & Sons, Whittaker, Becker,
and La Petite. Little known fact -Kimball almost bought Steinway from CBS in
the mid 80s, but decided not to because the factory was in such poor shape they
determined it would have to be knocked down and started from scratch.
Your piano is model #4244, and it sold new in 1989 in the neighborhood of
$2500. If it is in good shape it is still worth about the same amount. If your
piano is 12 years old, it was the last year for the old 42" scale. A new 43"
scale console was introduced in 1990 which is the one that was showing promise
toward the end of their days in the piano business. Kimball had upgraded their
factory equipment during the 90s until it was one of the most modern and well
equipped piano factories in the world. They sold their entire manufacturing
setup to a Chinese piano maker named Artfield Piano Company in Shanghei.
I hope that is enough information! ;-)
Larry Fletcher
Pianos Inc
Atlanta GA
Dealer/technician
Doing the work of three men.....Larry, Curly, & Moe
Want to visit another piano related messageboard? Go to the piano discussion
group on my website:
Don
wrote:
>>I just picked up a 12 year old WW Kimball 42" upright piano. It is a
>>light oak finish. I did a bit of a history look and found it was made
>>in the US and the company made Conn pianos as well. I wonder if anyone
>>has any more history they can supply? They are no longer in business.
>>I'd like to find out a ball park estimate of the original cost of the
>>piano, and what it might be worth on today's market. Thanks
>>--
>
>Started in Chicago in 1857. Built pretty good pianos until labor unions killed
>them off in the late 50s, when a furniture maker in Jasper Indiana bought the
>company and moved it to Indiana. He also bought Bosendorfer shortly after, as
>well as the Herrberger Brooks action manufacturer in England, maker of the
>Schwander and Langer actions. Soon became the largest producer of pianos in the
>world.
So...I can't understand why the big deal about Bosendorfer. I have
never played even ONE Kimball which was a decent piano. While in high
school (late 1960s-early 1970s), I worked with a Hammond/Conn dealer
in one town, mostly organs and a few pianos of Knabe and other brands.
I also worked with a dealer in another city who sold Yamaha and
Kimball organs and pianos. Like I said, I never played a Kimball
piano which I liked in any way.
>Their products range from standing furniture grade hardwood forests in about
>half the states in the country (my understanding is that they are the 3rd
>largest owner of hardwood forests in the US - the government is first, then
>Georgia Pacific, then Kimball) to wood products, lumber mills, office
>furniture, hotel furniture...
<snip>
I had a friend in northwest Arkansas who owned a Baldwin Piano store.
ALL of his office furniture was Kimball, including huge "grandfather"
clocks...so he could easily show what Kimball DID build
correctly...and it wasn't pianos!
>Pretty, cheap pianos. It would be my
>guess that Kimball made more money from the piano industry than any other
>company ever, with the possible exception of Yamaha.
That really amazes me. But it is probably true. Too bad Baldwin
could not have had similar success.
>The pianos were of mediocre to average quality,
...on a good day with a strong tail wind. <gr>
> Little known fact -Kimball almost bought Steinway from CBS in
>the mid 80s, but decided not to because the factory was in such poor shape they
>determined it would have to be knocked down and started from scratch.
Good business is just good business. And, after all, piano
manufacturing really is JUST a business to the owners/stockholders.
So Larry, was this "Conn piano" the same company as Conn organ? I
know that Kimball bought Conn organs, took a respected three-manual
theatre organ, gutted the console and put Kimball innards in it...and
it SUCKED!!! And THAT is also an understatement.
Many "theatre organ" fans had loved and bought the Conn Theatre organs
for years, including the three-manual 650, 651 and 652. Then Kimball
turned the Conn 652 into a Conn-looking Kimball called the Conn 653.
It was a disaster. If you have ever heard a Kimball electronic
organ, then you would understand.
Thanks for the history.
D*
"The power of accurate observation is called cynicism
by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw
Rick Clark
As Larry said, the reason for the tremendous success of Kimball pianos
(later 20th century) had nothing to do with musical instrument quality
(I agree they were quite lousy) but that they gave the consumer what
they craved, this being: 1.Cheap 2. Looks nice and 3. (Something not
specifically mentioned by Larry, but oh-so-important) Name recognition
factor. "These must be pretty good, honey, they were in that movie and
were also being given away on *The Price Is Right* and *Let's Make A
Deal*". Plus they have a Good Housekeeping Seal Of Approval, and
Grandma had a Kimball when she was a little girl.
Regards,
Rick Clark
Don
Kimball and Story&Clark must have given away dozens of pianos on TV
shows when I was a kid. That was good marketing. And you are right,
they were lousy pianos.
But they followed the same rule as any good Mexican restaurant
follows...SELL THE SIZZLE, NOT THE STEAK!
Mike Wu
> So...I can't understand why the big deal about Bosendorfer. I have
> never played even ONE Kimball which was a decent piano. While in high
> school (late 1960s-early 1970s), I worked with a Hammond/Conn dealer
> in one town, mostly organs and a few pianos of Knabe and other brands.
> I also worked with a dealer in another city who sold Yamaha and
> Kimball organs and pianos. Like I said, I never played a Kimball
> piano which I liked in any way.
>
When I was early into my piano search last year, I played a large
Kimball grand at Grafton's in Pennsylvania. According to Glenn
Grafton, this was actually a Bosendorfer labeled as a Kimball for
promotional use. Perhaps Glenn (who is an occasional poster to RMMP)
can fill in some more about this piano.
Mike Wu
Rick Clark
>When I was early into my piano search last year, I played a large
>Kimball grand at Grafton's in Pennsylvania. According to Glenn
>Grafton, this was actually a Bosendorfer labeled as a Kimball for
>promotional use. Perhaps Glenn (who is an occasional poster to RMMP)
>can fill in some more about this piano.
I remember those when they first came out. I think they even called it
a Kimball Imperial or something. I can't swear it was identical in
every way to what you get when you buy a Bosie, though it was in the
gross features, and it was certainly far and away better than any
regular Kimball by a long shot. I would have been more than happy to
own one.
Regards,
Rick Clark
Larry
>clocks...so he could easily show what Kimball DID build
>correctly...and it wasn't pianos!
>
It was actually Baldwin who took a stab at building grandfather clocks, not
Kimball. And the clock industry yawned.
>So Larry, was this "Conn piano" the same company as Conn organ?
I always assumed it was. The Conn organs didn't have a broad enough appeal.
They had their fans, but not enough to justify building them. I never did
understand why Kimball bought them in the first place. I stocked a few of them,
and they were standard Conn organs - no change from their original design. But
they just wouldn't sell. Kimball sold through what Conn had already built, and
assembled as many as they had the parts to build, and that was the end of them.
I don't recall ever seeing one with Kimball electronics in it. That doesn't
mean they didn't make a few toward the end.
>Many "theatre organ" fans had loved and bought the Conn Theatre organs
>for years, including the three-manual 650, 651 and 652.
Yes....but not in enough numbers to make it worth building them anymore.
>Then Kimball
>turned the Conn 652 into a Conn-looking Kimball called the Conn 653.
>It was a disaster. If you have ever heard a Kimball electronic
>organ, then you would understand.
I liked the ones Kimball bought OEM from Elka in Italy. I actually wish I could
find one of the big ones - EP12 I think. It was a great organ. But as we know,
everyone woke up one morning and discovered that the last person on the face of
the earth who wanted an organ had already bought it, and that was the end of it
(except in Wrinkle Cities).......
Larry
>specifically mentioned by Larry, but oh-so-important) Name recognition
>factor.
Absolutely. In fact, if Kimball were to get back in the piano business, they'd
have dealers flocking to their doors because the name recognition factor is
still strong. And none of the Asian makers have ever been able to build a
pretty Queen Anne cherry console piano that looked right. And the facts are, a
pretty Queen Anne cherry cabinet on a console piano with a recognizable
American name brand sells more pianos than talking about quality any day. Sad,
but true.
LarC
pondered exceedingly, then took quill in hand and composed:
>Many "theatre organ" fans had loved and bought the Conn Theatre organs
>for years, including the three-manual 650, 651 and 652. Then Kimball
>turned the Conn 652 into a Conn-looking Kimball called the Conn 653.
>It was a disaster. If you have ever heard a Kimball electronic
>organ, then you would understand.
Among the many things that Kimball has manufactured over the years,
they actually built real theatre pipe organs for about 20 years until
near WWII. There are still a few around. I've seen performances on
the one in Dickinson High School in Wilmington, DE. Kimball was
involved in fierce competition with Wurlitzer to build the organ in
Radio City Music Hall. The matter was settled with Kimball designing
the organ and Wurlitzer building it, a combination that ensured it
would never be a particularly outstanding example of theatre organs
for any reason other than its size (about 58 ranks).
LarC
งงง - To reply by e-mail, please remove "r" from rnc - งงง
Don
And the sad thing about that organ is...that it is amplified!!!
When you hear it, you are not even hearing it. You are hearing it
through the PA system!
med...@home.com.nospam
I know I wasn't getting top of the line, but this one is basically
new. (Student used it for two years then lost interest) So I'm happy
for the investment I have in it. The history was great!!! Thanks
again.
On Mon, 6 Aug 2001 22:30:54, larryin...@aol.comnojunk (Larry)
wrote:
--
med...@home.com.nospam
pianoguy
medrake wrote:
> The number imbedded on the board under the lid is #E06419
As you might have guessed I was interested in verifying the age...the only E series
Kimball number in my Pierce Atlas is E03566 / 1988 so as you said the piano is more
than likely 12 years old. Original retail was about $1500 and in excellent condition
is worth that much retail today.
