DW, worth the money?
Jan-Erik Mångs
saying, "it's not worth it", "simply not that kind of quality",
"standard Keller shells", "have a look at Pearl Masters / Masterworks,
Tama Starclassic instead" etc.
Is this true? Do I throw money away if I buy a new DW Collectors kit? If
so, what top of the line kit should I look into instead?
(This has probably been discussed several times before but search
capabilities on groups.google.com are somewhat limited in time right
now...)
/J-E
(Sweden)
George Lawrence
not Keller shells anymore. DW makes their own shells now. I have heard
DW kits that sound every bit as good as a top of the line Tama or Pearl.
I have an older DW kit from 1989 that is equal in sound quality to my
Gretsches and Sonors. On the other hand. I've heard top of the line
DWs, Tamas and Pearls and even Gretsches that didn't sound that great.
Base your decision on what you hear, not what somebody else says. Buy an
individual drum set, not a brand. Make sure you play the one you buy and
like the way it sounds. Don't take a chance on getting a lemon in any
brand.
--
George Lawrence, Nashville TN
Drumset artist, teacher, author
http://www.drumguru.com
"Just play dumb" - Jeff Porcaro
Robert Schuh
This is just one guy's opinion, but DW's drums are THE most over rated, over
priced drums on the planet. They are an excellent company and have THE best
hardware and great people running the company, but the drums just say
NOTHING. The actual hardware on the drums, lugs etc. are REALLY crappy. I
would LOVE to see what kind of ludicrous margins they have built into these
drums. I think you would be FAR better served by Tama's Starclassics. BTW,
does NOT use Keller shells. They make their own.
--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche
"The meek shall inherit nothing" - Zappa
REMOVE@home.com Steve Gardner
comments and praise on the sound from players as well as audience.. I have
thought of selling, just cause I get itchy to have new stuff. DW are great
drums
"Robert Schuh" <r...@rschuh.com> wrote in message
news:3AC773FE...@rschuh.com...
Benjamin Jacoby
> While looking for a DW Collectors kit I've heard dealers and others
> saying, "it's not worth it", "simply not that kind of quality",
> "standard Keller shells", "have a look at Pearl Masters / Masterworks,
> Tama Starclassic instead" etc.
A local drumshop had DW collectors kit for a while and I have to say that
while it was an outstanding looking and sounding drumset, the price tag
always made me feel I had entered a "more bux than sense zone"!
But this stuff is relative! If you want what you feel is that absolute
"best" then price is probably irrelevant.
My personal opinion is that there are only a few top end drumsets that
stand out a cut above all the herd. Brands (IMHO) that do this are
DW <what can I say...it's true>, Pearl Masters, Sonor Designers, Ayotte
<or what they used to make> and a couple of the smaller makers.
Premier or Yamaha were not on my list. And I never formed an opinion of
Tama.
These sets stood out to me especially in A-B on stage with other brands.
But also each still had their own personality. They are not alike even
though they all were a stand-out.
Bottom line: It's your money and your opinion!
Benj
--
SPAM-GUARD! Remove "user.", if present, from address to email me.
Mark Polis
--
--
o-----´ç Mark Polis ç b.d...@suscom.net çª-----o
--
"Benjamin Jacoby" <bja...@user.netwalk.net> wrote in message
news:9a86qr$a1l$1...@news.netwalk.net...
Vince Waters
the rest. But also Yamaha - they're friggin amazing!!! And so are Premier.
I think Premier is a little underrated, because they have a beautiful sound
too! I never did like Tama, except for the Cherry kit Neil Peart used on
Moving Picture (1981)
I too am looking into DW's. I just wish they made the big 20" Gong Bass',
but I guess I can get away with using a 20" Rack Tom. And I agree also that
DW's are WAY over priced! But man do they sound amazing!
Benjamin Jacoby <bja...@user.netwalk.net> wrote in message
news:9a86qr$a1l$1...@news.netwalk.net...
Derek
making the collector's series with or without reinforcing hoops. (announced
on Harmony Central yesterday?)
I've been to the factory and can say that you won't find a more caring group
of people to make your drums. They'll also go MUCH farther than any other
company to make you happy.
FYI, I own new Gretsch and Noble and Cooley in addition to DW.
Good luck. Think it over as long as possible!
Derek
"Vince Waters" <vewa...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:UFMx6.507465$Pm2.8...@news20.bellglobal.com...
Dan Radin
I know where your dealer is coming from. I feel the same way. Put it this way:
you can choose between a factory-built kit for around $3000, you can buy a
factory-built kit for around $1500, or you can buy a hand0built kit for around
$2000. This is essentially the high end maket these days, in my experience.
Choice A includes DW, Sonor Designers, Yamaha Maple/Birch/Beech Custom, Pearl
Masters, Tama Starclassic, and others. Expect very well-built drums that sound
great. Expect them to be very heavy. Also expect at least some manufacturing
defects. I've built every one of the above kits for showroom display, and they
all have something, whether it's a poorly-machined lug, or uneven finish,
there's always something. On the plus side, you get a status symbol. Everyone
knows you have great drums, and how much you paid for them.
Option two is a the production high end kit, one step below the status symbol.
This includes Pearl SRX, Tama Starclassic Performer, DW's Pacific L series,
Mapex's Pro-M's and Saturns, etc. Expect slightly less flash, but nearly, if
not as good sound as the first group. We're still talking about Maple and birch
shells here, but you don't need to worry about dipping into the retirement fund
to finance a matching 8" tom in three years. You'll still see some of the same
minor defects as group A, but these drums are made in larger numbers, and parts
a re more readily available (cheaper too!).
Option three is, in my opinion, the best. There are thousands of small maker
out there. Some have great prices, and some are comparable with group one. Any
of them will work with you to find YOUR drum sound, not some marketing exec's
sound, but YOURS. Baltimore, Spaun, MRP, Medicine Man, Orange County, and
Mapleworks are among the common names. Your best bet is to go for a kit with
national distribution, so parts are easy to get. It's also much easier to
haggle with a dealer on price than it is to haggle with the man who built your
drums! Expect NO manufacturing flaws, incredible quality control, great
finishes, and 24-hour roadside assistance, should you need it. You'll want to
retire with these drums, and you'll still have money to do so, in most cases.
Here are some ideas of price comparision. Each kit is made up of 18x22, 8x10,
9x12, and 12x14 toms, and a 5.5x14 snare drum.
Class A: $2100 (Pearl BRX) to $5000 (Gretsch/Sonor)
Class B: $900 (Mapex) to $1300 (Pearl/Tama)
Class C: $2000 (Baltimore) to $5800 (OCDP)
...and you can put a DW logo head on any of them!
>While looking for a DW Collectors kit I've heard dealers and others
>saying, "it's not worth it", "simply not that kind of quality",
>"standard Keller shells", "have a look at Pearl Masters / Masterworks,
>Tama Starclassic instead" etc.
>
>Is this true? Do I throw money away if I buy a new DW Collectors kit? If
>so, what top of the line kit should I look into instead?
-Dan Radin
Rutgers University
Sam Ash Music, Edison
Rich B
>While looking for a DW Collectors kit I've heard dealers and others
>saying, "it's not worth it", "simply not that kind of quality",
>"standard Keller shells", "have a look at Pearl Masters / Masterworks,
>Tama Starclassic instead" etc.
>
>Is this true? Do I throw money away if I buy a new DW Collectors kit? If
>so, what top of the line kit should I look into instead?
DWs are like Marshall amplifiers and Harley-Davidson motorcycles:
good stuff, performs well, but you pay a premium for the name.
If money is an issue, look into Starclassic Performers. If you want
a nice hand-made kit, look at Spaun. If you want lots of options
and choices on a hand-made kit, look at MRP Drums.
-strat81
*****************************************
"And I don't need your sympathy to get me
through the day. Seasons change and so can I."
Proud Disc Jockey at 89.5 FM WSOU- Seton Hall's PIRATE Radio
Proud Craftsman at MRP Custom Drums www.mrpdrums.com
*****************************************
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Pat McDonald
<r...@rschuh.com> wrote:
> This is just one guy's opinion, but DW's drums are THE most over rated, over
> priced drums on the planet. They are an excellent company and have THE best
> hardware and great people running the company, but the drums just say
> NOTHING. The actual hardware on the drums, lugs etc. are REALLY crappy. I
> would LOVE to see what kind of ludicrous margins they have built into these
> drums. I think you would be FAR better served by Tama's Starclassics. BTW,
> does NOT use Keller shells. They make their own.
>
>
This is just another guy's opinion but I have to agree. As far as
I'm concerned, for the cash you have to lay out for their super-slick
marketing dept., you can get a much higher quality kit from any number
of other companies and have alot of change left over. However,
"Tubby" is the best description I can come up with. I DO think their
hardware is extremely happening and they have begun to address the
quality issues as of late. The stuff I'm seeing from them now does
show improvement but I'm still just completely unimpressed by the
sound. They just don't sound good to me. I'd shop around and be
sure that they are what you want. There are a bunch of really nice
drums being made these days by smaller companies that will sound
incredible, look great and cost less.
Pat
Dan Radin
>I'm concerned, for the cash you have to lay out for their super-slick
>marketing dept., you can get a much higher quality kit from any number
>of other companies and have alot of change left over. However,
>"Tubby" is the best description I can come up with. I DO think their
>hardware is extremely happening and they have begun to address the
>quality issues as of late. The stuff I'm seeing from them now does
>show improvement but I'm still just completely unimpressed by the
>sound. They just don't sound good to me. I'd shop around and be
>sure that they are what you want. There are a bunch of really nice
>drums being made these days by smaller companies that will sound
>incredible, look great and cost less.
>
>Pat
...says the guy with the Gretsch endorsement...the company with the worst
hardware design and quality control in the history of drums! :-)
Pat McDonald
<dir...@aol.comSPAMSPAM> wrote:
Yep. You're probably right. But no matter how bad their stuff can
be, they still sound so much better than DW's stuff that it's like
comparing a Ferrari and a tricycle with one wheel missing. I'm
willing to deal with the craziness to have a kit that sounds like mine.
Come hear it sometime my friend and you'll burn every DW drum you own
in ritual sacrifice.
; )
Pat
George Lawrence
Pat McDonald wrote:
> Come hear it sometime my friend and you'll burn every DW drum you own
> in ritual sacrifice.
Not me. I have both and like the tone of each. :-) Variety is the spice
of life.
Craig Mazin
so damned much?" crowd. I don't think DW drums sound bad. Quite the contrary.
I just don't think they warrant the price.
C.
Pat McDonald
<drum...@home.com> wrote:
> Pat McDonald wrote:
>
> > Come hear it sometime my friend and you'll burn every DW drum you own
> > in ritual sacrifice.
>
> Not me. I have both and like the tone of each. :-) Variety is the spice
> of life.
Most definitely. That was said with a hint of confrontationalism.
Dan's tone seemed a bit smug so I felt like I had to give him a little
taste! ; )
I have 4 different acoustic kits (2 Gretsch, Noble & Cooley and old
Sonor) and they all do a certain job. I happen to like the sound of
the Gretschs best but the quality and craftsmanship make the N&Cs run a
very close second. Noble & Cooley makes some of the best made drums
I've ever seen. They are built extremely well. I just don't really
care for the way DW's drums sound.
One thing about them that has always been a recurrent problem to me is
the lack of consistency within the whole kit. I've heard some kits
where the kick sounded great but the toms just didn't knock me out. Or
a few of the toms were happening but the kick sounded like ass. Or
whatever. And I've only heard one DW snare ever that I thought
sounded great. (John Gardner's little 6 x 12 bronze drum that he
plays with the Bluebloods all the time. Sweet drum! ) The rest felt
and played like a shoebox to my hands. Backline companies seem to love
them so on fly dates when I can't use my own kit I usually have to
suffer through with a DW kit. I have played a ton of them, set them up
exactly how I like, tuned them to my specs and they just don't do it
for me. To each his own. I hate to say it but even if they sent me
a kit free of charge, I'd probably still use one of my Gretsch kits or
the N&C's before I'd take them out.
Pat
Jan-Erik Mångs
>
> One thing about them that has always been a recurrent problem to me is
> the lack of consistency within the whole kit.
Hm, the following text from the Pearl Masterworks catalog seems to be
adressed to DW:
"Consistency. By controlling every aspect of the shell manufacturing
process, there's simply no need to tap the side of the shell and give it
a note. If you have variation, you don't have consistency."
Jan-Erik Mångs
>
> DW is now officially
> making the collector's series with or without reinforcing hoops. (announced
> on Harmony Central yesterday?)
So that's why the DW Workshop series (the cheaper drums without
reinforcing hoops) disappeared from dwdrums.com a couple of weeks ago.
Still nothing on this on their web though...
George Lawrence
Pat McDonald wrote:
confrontationalism.
That's a big word for you. How come you don't talk like that in person?
:_)
I guess I got one of the good DW's, though I have to admit that the
snare drum was out of round when I bought it and I had to get it fixed.
I didn't buy it for the snare drum though.
Pat McDonald
<drum...@home.com> wrote:
> Pat McDonald wrote:
> confrontationalism.
> That's a big word for you. How come you don't talk like that in person?
> :_)
>
I do, just not when I'm around a bunch of Nashville drummers-don't
want to have to see them all sit there with that confused look on their
faces!
; )
Pat
Jan-Erik Mångs
>
> My personal opinion is that there are only a few top end drumsets that
> stand out a cut above all the herd. Brands (IMHO) that do this are
> DW <what can I say...it's true>, Pearl Masters, Sonor Designers, Ayotte
Sonor seem to have a bad reputation on customer service, at least here.
There's currently no representative for Sonor in Sweden. Rumours have it
you'll have to wait anywhere between 3-9 months before things are
delivered (even spare parts and even though Germany is close to us...)
George Lawrence
drummers get when an out of town producer says, "can we try that with a
little looser groove and spontaneity?"
--
jmt
overall. jmt
--
"Baldrick, you wouldn't recognize a cunning plan if it painted itself
purple and danced naked on a
harpsicord singing 'cunning plans are here again'."... Blackadder
JaKe
PeriscopeR
e
Jobalicious
though..
"Jan-Erik Mångs" <ki...@verkstad.net> wrote in message
news:3AC75D05...@verkstad.net...
Rich B
There is no way to elminate inconsistency when using a natural
product such as wood. However, many people (including myself)
consider the tapping/timbre matching thing to be a gimmick.
Robert Dotto
Neil Peart used his Mahogany/Walnut stained Tama kit on the album "Moving
Pictures." The Cherry kit came in on "Signals."
"Jobalicious" <jfo...@oceanasensor.com> wrote in message
news:9ad8bs$dpu$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...