Advice from Yamaha Maple Custom Owners
dru...@my-deja.com
had several birch kits which I liked, but am
thinking I might like maple better. I like a
focused warm tone out of drums. I play in church
settings with a full band. I am interested in
YAMAHA's Maple Customs, MC Absolutes, or possibly
some DW Collectors--or should I just stick with
birch? Any feedback would be appreciated. I am
mainly bent on which set would give me the good
sound I am looking for. Thanks.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Robert Schuh
I would definitely look into Spaun. They are much less than DW and the
MC. They are almost identically priced to the MCAs and are all custom.
Here is their URL. http://home.inreach.com/spaun/
--
Robert Schuh
"There Can be Only One!"
Trane, Jaco, Jimi and Bird are GODS!
Donate your organs. Save a life.
Proud Endorser of Spaun Drums
dsin...@no.spamers.mindspring.com
I own Yamaha Recording Customs, Maple Custom Absolutes and recently a
new Ayotte Drumsmith kit. Heres my thoughts...
My RC has a great sound..it is about 12 years old, and does have that
focused dark tone. They basically sound fat, and are actually pretty
loud. I hated the kick drum until I put an Aquarian Superkick One on
there. I tried Powerstrokes and they sounded too dead on that drum.
The problem with this kit for me is that its a 22" kick, and all power
tom sizes. It also has the old yamaha tom mounts, which went into the
shell. Yamaha does have a really cool retrofit for this mounting
system, and I've been tempted to go ahead and redo all the mounts.
The RC's to me are really pleasing to play, as they have a thicker
shell, and don't rely on heads and/or the acoustics of the room you're
in to define their tone. It seems to me that thinner shelled kits can
sound terrible in certain rooms..like they rely on the room to get
their sound. The thicks shells that sound so great, are actually ALSO
the reason I went away from the RC's...too damn heavy to cart around!
I recently bought the Maple Custom Absolute kit, and I LOVE this kit.
It sounds pretty darn good with almost any kind of head, projects
well, and is still warm. The weird thing about this kit is that to the
guy playing them, they dont sound that great. The sound is sort of
thrown out in front of you...and the kick (20") has almost a metallic
sound to it...sort of like a bad room sound. I put a smooth white head
on the front of the kick, no hole, with a strip of felt, left the
Powerstroke on the batter, and it sounds totally amazing. I probably
would NOT put a Superkick head on this kick.. The toms in this kit are
killer. I bought flat toms, not power toms, and they sing forever! The
YESS mounts are totally amazing. This kit has the best sounding toms
to my ear of all of my kits. They are throaty and really attacky at
the same time AND they sustain forever.
Now for the Ayotte. To me this has got to be the best buy on a mid to
high end all maple kit. The kick drum in this kit actually sounds
BETTER than my MCA kick. It is also a 20". In this case it has a PS3
on the batter and the PS3 on the front of the drum that comes with it,
no hole. The snare that came with it has totally blown me away. All
maple, and to me has the definitive maple snare sound. Before this
snare, I have alyways used my Yamaha Manu Katche. This snare might
actually replace that one for a lot of gigs. The worst part about the
Ayotte kit is the toms...or maybe the mounting system, I'm not sure
which it is yet. The toms (10,12,14) are "fast" sizes, the depth is in
between power tom and flat toms. They sound really good when you hold
them by the rim, but as soon as they are put on a stand, they lose a
lot of sustain. I have yet to figure out how to minimize this problem.
At first I thought it was the mounting system with the strong arm tom
clamps, but if i clamp the drum to the mount, and then hold the mount
in my hand it sounds great. As soon as I clamp the MOUNT to a cymbal
stand, evertyhing goes dead... The other problem with the Ayotte kit
is that the chrome is pretty crappy compared to the Yamaha stuff. Fit
and finish overall on the Ayottes is IMHO a lot worse than Yamaha.
Even the clear coat on the drums seems much thinner and vulnerable to
chipping etc than the Yamahas. if I can figure out a way to get the
toms to sound the same mounted as they do in my hand, I'll be totally
pleased with this kit. I think the toms may actually sound better than
my Yamahas but they get killed by a crappy mounting system. I'll keep
the group informed if i find out anything of use...
Anyway, write back and let us know about your decision!
-Dennis
drumguru
to the guy playing them and how the room affects certain thicknesses of
shells, etc. is explained and diagrammed very well in an article in our
RMMP FAQ written by our own Mike Radcliff.
http://www.rmmpfaq.club24.co.uk/shelldesign.htm
--
George Lawrence
drumset artist, teacher, author
Nashville TN
SEE ROCK CITY
(or my business website constantly under
construction at http://www.drumguru.com)
_________________________________________________
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"If thine enemy wrong thee, buy each of
his children a drum." Chinese proverb
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Robert Schuh
Something that one must remember, even Ayotte's Drumsmith line, which is
supposed to be their economy line is more money than Spaun's drums. Why
buy a kit with no options, imported shells and limited colors when you can
buy a Spaun kit for less money and have an almost custom made drum kit?
--
Robert Schuh
"There Can be Only One!"
Stevie, Trane, Jaco, Jimi and Bird are GODS!
Jason G. LaRiviere
mounts are totally amazing. <
You know what, I don't get the Yamaha mounts. They're still bolting the
mount to the shell, and when the tom is hung, it still exerts stress on
the shell. Why bother? I'm looking at a beautiful Maple Custom kit
right now with these mounts, and thinking of replacing them with RIMS.
How do these mounts work in your experience?
/Jason.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
strat81
>supposed to be their economy line is more money than Spaun's drums. Why
>buy a kit with no options, imported shells and limited colors when you can
>buy a Spaun kit for less money and have an almost custom made drum kit?
Rob, did Brian take you down his factory and re-program you or
something? Is there a battle being waged in your head between Sonor
and Spaun? :)
********************
Why aren't you downloading prOn right now?
Rich '99 SL1
********************
dsin...@no.spammers.mindspring.com
on my 10" Ayotte tom, and I can now live with it...improved things
tremendously. The YESS mounts really don't kill resonance at all on
the Yamahas..i know it sounds odd since yes, they ARE bolting to the
shell, but you have to listen to them...they really work great.
Robert Schuh
> Not to rain on your parade Rob, but let's compare apples to apples: Retail
> price of Spaun kit, maple shells, no glue rings, oil finish in 18x22, 8x10,
> 9x12, 11x14, 13x16 with 4 suspension mounts and 4 tom brackets = $3256.00.
> Retail price of DW kit, maple shells, no glue rings, oil finish in 18x22,
> 8x10, 9x12, 11x14, 13x16 with 4 suspension mounts and 4 tom brackets =
> $3165.00.
>
> "Be regular and orderly in your life,
> so that you may be violent and original in your work"
>
> - Gustave Flaubert
Spaun does not use an oil finish. The Workshop line also offers limited shell
size and colors. I think you need to compare DW's top end kits to Spauns, not
their lower priced drums. You can't even get an 18" bass drum from DW in that
line! :-) I think you are comparing Apples with spoiled apples! :-)
Robert Schuh
No,
I still love Sonor, but who can afford their Designer Series besides Mark
Polis? :-) Their S Class Maple kit is not even offered with an 18" bass drum or
any size selections. What kind of shit is that? :-)
Robert Schuh
> On Wed, 13 Oct 1999 23:37:53 GMT, dsin...@no.spammers.mindspring.com
> wrote:
>
> >I don't know WHY they work...but they do! BTW, I just put a RIMS mount
> >on my 10" Ayotte tom, and I can now live with it...improved things
> >tremendously. The YESS mounts really don't kill resonance at all on
> >the Yamahas..i know it sounds odd since yes, they ARE bolting to the
> >shell, but you have to listen to them...they really work great.
> >
> Supposedly, yamaha mounts these at the nodal point of the shell--as
> the lugs are. In theory then it wouldn't make a differnce what you
> put there--there isn't any vibration at the nodal point anyway.
>
> I was always concerned about the weight of a 14x16" tom on the two
> bolts of the YESS mount. More appreopriately, the shearing force of
> the bolts on the shell. However, I owned a MC for about 2 years, and
> never saw any problem. Nor have I ever heard of a problem...
>
> Tom
They use the technology that N&C first came up with called "nodal" points.
These are theoretically the points on the shell that are effected by stress
very little. I have heard nothing but good things about the YESS system
from people who have used it.
Tom Betka
John Van Ness - DW
dru...@my-deja.com
of us against the Spaun endorser who is desperately treading in shark
infested waters...but we do have a good discussion going now on
Yamaha's YESS system and the type of drum that will get the sound I am
looking for. It looks like all of the YAMAHA owners are extremely
satisfied with their drums whether it is RC or MC! Now for the choice
between the two. At this point I am leaning toward the MC's in flat
tom sizes with an 18X20 BD unless I get some overwhelming info to sway
me. I'll keep you posted. Thanks for all of the response guys...I
still don't know about Spaun??...JK.
John Van Ness - DW
shells, no glue rings)...the price for DW stays the same at $3165.00, and for
Spaun you need to add $150.00 to each tom, and 200.00 to the bass drum, which
makes the total retail price of the Spauns $4056.00. Granted the machined brass
lug is beautiful (simple, yet elegant...great job Dave Pimental) and there is a
wider choice of colors with Spaun...but it is simply unfair to compare a shell
without glue-rings to a shell with glue-rings. Whether you care for the sound
of a shell with glue-rings or not...the fact remains they are more
labor-intensive and costly to make.
John Van Ness - DW
friggin' shark food most of the time. He's like your grumpy Grampa, on the
surface he's mostly a pain-in-the-ass, but actually listen to what he's saying
and he usually has some good advice. I personally appreciate his directness.
You will always know where you stand with Schuh. Political correctness be
damned!
Tom Betka
After owning each--RC & MC--I think the ultimate would be to own birch
toms and a maple bass drum. The sound of the RC bass drum is a
bit.....well....limp, for lack of a better term. The MC kick I used to
own (16x22), was awesome, but the toms with it were too boomy for my
tastes. They were power depths though. Maybe if you got traditional or
'FAST' depths, ala DW, it'd be OK.
I wouldn't hesitate at all with the YESS system though... In fact, I
intend to use it on a new set of Gretsch sometime in the next year or
so.
Tom
JaKe
must be very responsive in this configuration.
JaKe
John Van Ness - DW wrote:
>
> Okay so compare Spaun's high-gloss lacquer to DW's high-gloss lacquer (maple
> shells, no glue rings)...the price for DW stays the same at $3165.00, and for
> Spaun you need to add $150.00 to each tom, and 200.00 to the bass drum, which
> makes the total retail price of the Spauns $4056.00. Granted the machined brass
> lug is beautiful (simple, yet elegant...great job Dave Pimental) and there is a
> wider choice of colors with Spaun...but it is simply unfair to compare a shell
> without glue-rings to a shell with glue-rings. Whether you care for the sound
> of a shell with glue-rings or not...the fact remains they are more
> labor-intensive and costly to make.
>
dsin...@no.spammers.mindspring.com
with drum4jc about the RC bass drum...mine always sounded a little
weak...until I put the Aquarian Superkick One head with the Aquarian
Resonantor head on the front! Then it was killer..
Regarding Birch vs. Maple...I think that I actually prefer the sound
of Birch, when I'm playing for myself...meaning just working on stuff
on the kit...but I think that Maple is much more contemporary, and
fits with the actual stuff I'm called to play on gigs a bit more. I
would suggest if you go Maple, get the Maple Custom Absolute, not just
the regular Maple Customs. The Absolutes are substantially cheaper,
and to most of the peoplee in this group sound BETTER. They are
thinner shelled than the regular MC's, and they have chrome lugs, not
the gold ones. I bought the 10,12,14,20 sizes, all in the flat toms.
This kit is fantastic to play. When you get it, email me and I'll tell
you in depth all the differrent heaad combinations I've tried and what
my impressions were of each...:) The only down side to this kit as Ive
said before is...weight. Even though its Yamaha's lightest kit, its
still heavy...which leads me to...
Ayotte Drumsmith. After putting that RIMS mount on my kit, I think
I'll be using this kit for most of my live gigs. It sounds VERY good,
and now that 10" tom sings! You should know however, that they only
come in "fast" tom depths (in between flat and power), so if you hate
that, that would rule this kit out for you. I'm very pleased with the
fact that I can carry all of the drums (kick, snare and all) in bags
over my shoulder in one trip..:) I still maintain this kick sounds
better than either of my Yamahas. After putting that rims mount on the
tom, I may even like the tonality of these BETTER than my Yamahas..I
need awhile to figure out if thats totally my feelings though. i guess
I would say the YAMS have a warmer sound, and the Ayottes, have more
attack.
Anyway...good luck...
-Dennis
Tom Betka
>Apparently you're new to this newsgroup? Schuh IS the shark here, and we're all
>friggin' shark food most of the time. He's like your grumpy Grampa, on the
>surface he's mostly a pain-in-the-ass, but actually listen to what he's saying
>and he usually has some good advice. I personally appreciate his directness.
>You will always know where you stand with Schuh. Political correctness be
>damned!
>
Here, here...
I wish there were more like him. All this good-for-nothing PC
bullshit. In my job I HAVE to be PC--but I can live vicariously
through Rob.
You go boy...
Tom
strat81
>strat81 wrote:
>
>> >Something that one must remember, even Ayotte's Drumsmith line, which is
>> >supposed to be their economy line is more money than Spaun's drums. Why
>> >buy a kit with no options, imported shells and limited colors when you can
>> >buy a Spaun kit for less money and have an almost custom made drum kit?
>>
>> Rob, did Brian take you down his factory and re-program you or
>> something? Is there a battle being waged in your head between Sonor
>> and Spaun? :)
>
>No,
>I still love Sonor, but who can afford their Designer Series besides Mark
>Polis? :-) Their S Class Maple kit is not even offered with an 18" bass drum or
>any size selections. What kind of shit is that? :-)
I must say, I heard the S-Class and didn't really dig it. I think the
shells are too thick. Built like a Strat tho...like a brick
shithouse.
*****************************************
My only pleasure is to hear you cry.
I love to see you cry.
I love to see you die.
I'll be the first to watch your funeral.
And I'll be the last to leave.
-Mercyful Fate
Rich '99 SL1
*****************************************
Robert Schuh
> Okay so compare Spaun's high-gloss lacquer to DW's high-gloss lacquer (maple
> shells, no glue rings)...the price for DW stays the same at $3165.00, and for
> Spaun you need to add $150.00 to each tom, and 200.00 to the bass drum, which
> makes the total retail price of the Spauns $4056.00. Granted the machined brass
> lug is beautiful (simple, yet elegant...great job Dave Pimental) and there is a
> wider choice of colors with Spaun...but it is simply unfair to compare a shell
> without glue-rings to a shell with glue-rings. Whether you care for the sound
> of a shell with glue-rings or not...the fact remains they are more
> labor-intensive and costly to make.
>
> "Be regular and orderly in your life,
> so that you may be violent and original in your work"
>
> - Gustave Flaubert
John,
I was comparing your Workshop kit with the Spauns. They have no glue rings. This is
your affordable kit. BTW, Spaun makes no oil finish kits.
dru...@my-deja.com
says they get a "richer sound" from them. They say the BCAs "produce
clear mid and low tones with sharp, solid highs..." They put 5 extra
air holes in the bass drum to boost the attack. The Recording Customs
has 8 ply bass drum and the BCA's a 7 ply. Both RC and BCA kits have 6
ply toms/floor toms. I bet they sound hot.
Scott
John Van Ness - DW
high-gloss lacquer in my most recent post. I'm not doing it to break balls,
just to point out that the comparison chart on the Spaun web-site is somewhat
mis-leading.
13612
this NG and is a frequent contributor. He and his company is regarded in the
highest esteem.
--
Best Regards,
13612
Bill Ray
http://home.earthlink.net/~drum13612
<dru...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:7u42gp$64j$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Just to fan the fire...I am new to RMMP but it sounds like we have all
> of us against the Spaun endorser who is desperately treading in shark
> infested waters...but we do have a good discussion going now on
> Yamaha's YESS system and the type of drum that will get the sound I am
> looking for. It looks like all of the YAMAHA owners are extremely
> satisfied with their drums whether it is RC or MC! Now for the choice
> between the two. At this point I am leaning toward the MC's in flat
> tom sizes with an 18X20 BD unless I get some overwhelming info to sway
> me. I'll keep you posted. Thanks for all of the response guys...I
> still don't know about Spaun??...JK.
>
>
Matthew Gaither
: Tom Betka wrote:
: > On Wed, 13 Oct 1999 23:37:53 GMT, dsin...@no.spammers.mindspring.com
: They use the technology that N&C first came up with called "nodal" points.
: These are theoretically the points on the shell that are effected by stress
: very little. I have heard nothing but good things about the YESS system
: from people who have used it.
: --
: Robert Schuh
Hey Rob,
Nodal points have been around for centuries (hell, since the beginning
of time!!!), so don't go giving N&C all the credit. While Yamaha may
have a point in using their mounts, i wouldn't attempt uing the nodal
mounts on anything less than an eight-ply shell. Nodal points are what
tuning scales are based on, so they have been around since the first
stringed instrument.. BTW, i use nodal point technology, but i don't
brag about it as though i invented it. I hate buzzword marketing!.
--
-matt
Gaither Custom Drums gai...@sas.upenn.edu
1325 N. 5th Street, Studio 1D http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~gaither
Philadelphia, Pa. 19122
(888)739-1727
Snaredude
>brag about it as though i invented it. I hate buzzword marketing!.
Oh yeah, like the F.I.T.S. tuning system? :)
-Joe Costanzo
P.S.been snoopin' around the Gaither web site quite a bit lately - hey Matt,
can you make an 8" tom, and/or a 20"x18" kick? P.P.S. Don't go out of business
or anything anytime soon please! :)