Counting "Spang a lang" in 1.5 length phrases
Chris Howe
Let's say you're playing a med tempo swing ride dotted eighth
pattern...
(R=ride, .=rest)
R..R.RR..R.RR..R.RR..R.R
My question is (follow closely), what is this beat called:
(R=ride, L=snare, Bass can be played on R)
RLRLLRRLL RLRLLRRLL RLRLLRRLL RLRLLRRLL (no rests!)
It's nine beats long instead of the regular dotted eighth's six notes.
Two of them take the place of three dotted eighths. Its like taking a
para-diddle- diddle and adding one more triplet. 1-trip-let
2-trip-let 3-trip-let.
dotted 1/8 =
1-trip-let 2-trip-let/1-trip-let 2-trip-let/1-trip-let 2-trip-let
mystery phrase=
1-trip-let 2-trip-let 3-trip-let/1-trip-let 2-trip-let 3-trip-let
You hear it big band music and flashy modern jazz(?) like Spyro Gyra.
It's a way to break up the phrasing. I'd like to give it a name and
to know if the phrase has been carried beyond the way I write it and
play it. If they can name a para-diddle-diddle with perfect
onomatopoeia, there's got to be a 9-syllable sucker for this one!
Thanks
Chris Howe
George Lawrence
paradiddles (single, double, triple) have consecutive pairs of singles.
Para=pair of singles :-) I wouldn't worry about naming it. Names are
limiting and trying to relate drum set rhythms to rudimental patterns is a
game that is quickly over.
You can find that sticking pattern in pretty much every basic jazz drumming
book. If you are playing it in 3/4 as 8th note triplets with the right hand
on the cymbal it's a syncopated waltz ride pattern.
Your terminology in describing the rhythm's note values is a little
confusing. When working out these kinds of stickings and phrases try not to
interchange the terms "beat" and "note". They are two entirely different
things. The beat is usually the bottom number in the time signature and a
note is of course a note. So whether you are playing duplets or triplets or
groups of 63rds :-) in a pattern, the beat doesn't change. The beat is still
4/4 in this case. The subdivision changes. I'm assuming that the notes in
your pattern are of the same duration as those in the the ride cymbal
pattern, eigth notes in triplets? In that case the length of the whole nine
note pattern is one dotted quarter.
--
George Lawrence
George's Drum Shop
Akron, Ohio
http://www.drumguru.com
http://GeorgesDrumShop.com
«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
"If thine enemy wrong thee, buy each of his children a drum."
-Chinese proverb
_________________________________________________
«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤
"Chris Howe" <ch...@howeproductions.com> wrote in message
news:df9b8e8f.02061...@posting.google.com...
darkstar/#
> Your terminology in describing the rhythm's note values is a little
> confusing. When working out these kinds of stickings and phrases try not
to
> interchange the terms "beat" and "note". They are two entirely different
> things. The beat is usually the bottom number in the time signature and a
> note is of course a note. So whether you are playing duplets or triplets
or
> groups of 63rds :-) in a pattern, the beat doesn't change. The beat is
still
> 4/4 in this case. The subdivision changes. I'm assuming that the notes in
> your pattern are of the same duration as those in the the ride cymbal
> pattern, eigth notes in triplets? In that case the length of the whole
nine
> note pattern is one dotted quarter.
>
call me a dreamer, but the usenet of the future will have
blank sheets of staff paper.
George Lawrence
Crigger 1
Lawrence 0
--
George Lawrence
George's Drum Shop
Akron, Ohio
http://www.drumguru.com
http://GeorgesDrumShop.com
«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
"If thine enemy wrong thee, buy each of his children a drum."
-Chinese proverb
_________________________________________________
«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤
"George Lawrence" <drum...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:EN8N8.27916$d7.70...@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
Chris Howe
You are right about the beats and notes. I didn't think about the
distinction.
It occurred to me last night as I was working this phrase out
(starting with the left, then the right) that it is a jazz waltz
phrase. In swingtime, jazz waltzes are made up of three triplets.
This phrase is a jazz waltz phrase superimposed on straight jazz.
THEN I read your post this morning - it would be a jazz waltz phrase
in 3/4. Also a good point. Working out these exercises with your
hands is the greatest thing in improving - even after 20 years of
playing.
Point taken on the paradiddle naming, and your opinion on names in
general.
However, I do not believe it is a dotted quarter. It is not eight
triplets. Those nine note repeat without rests. 9,9,6 is a common
usage at the end of a few bars of straight swing leading up to ONE of
the next measure. I should not have written out as I did in my first
post with four in row (9,9,9,9). I'm out of my element, I must stop.
Thanks,
Chris
"George Lawrence" <drum...@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:<EN8N8.27916$d7.70...@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>...
Billy Rhythm
Bill
ch...@howeproductions.com (Chris Howe) wrote in message news:<df9b8e8f.02061...@posting.google.com>...
George Lawrence
per measure. What excactly does a third note look like?
--
George Lawrence
George's Drum Shop
Akron, Ohio
http://www.drumguru.com
http://GeorgesDrumShop.com
«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
"If thine enemy wrong thee, buy each of his children a drum."
-Chinese proverb
_________________________________________________
«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤
"Billy Rhythm" <billy...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b8a754fb.02061...@posting.google.com...
George Lawrence
note. Making sure we are on the same page; You are playing a number of
measures of swing time and then to fill in the last two bars you are playing
nonstop phrases of nine, nine and six, with the 9 note sticking you
suggested and some sort of six note sticking, in the same triplet
subdivision of the swing pattern?
R..R.RR..R.R / R..R.RR..R.R / RLRLLRRLLRLR / LLRRLLRLRRLL
If so then the subdivision is all eighth note triplets. And you are not out
of your element. We're talking the same story and just using different
lingo.
What interests me about this is that it falls into the area of my sticking
theory book: You are using different combinations of two notes in one hand
and one in the other. There are only six possible combinations in a three
note phrase: RRL, LRR, RLR, and the reverse stickings of those LLR, RLL, and
LRL. These are the elements of most jazz swing ride and snare fill patterns.
You'll notice that you tend toward the ones that start with the right hand
if you are right handed. These are the stickings and rhythms that are
missing in the primitive traditional rudiment system (flame suit and flammed
crusader cape on). Try several variations:
1. Reverse the sticking. This will make you work on the filling that middle
note in the triplet with your bass drum which is awkward for all of us at
first.
2. play every RLR and LRL on the toms (L = hi tom, R = low tom; the
standard substitution), and then try every LLR and RLL and LLRRLL on the
toms. It orchestrates the pattern nicely without breaking it up or feeling
like a "fill"; more of a flow.
two cents please.
Chris Cole
I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, but you ARE kidding...right? Please tell
me you forgot the smiley face! :-)
--
cc
"I always wanted to be a drummer when I grew up, but then I realized I
couldn't do both." ~ unknown
Chris Howe
Thank you for your other ideas, George. I will have to look at them
closely again to derive real benefit from them. This week has been
great for getting out the pad and the metronome and playing
doubleparadiddles forwards and backwards. Displacing them. Also
finding out what stickings fit in what times. Slower tempo practice.
Accenting and reverse accenting. Playing two handed singles one hand
at a time. And discovering how to overlay 3/4 patterns into 4/4 jazz
(I think that's what I'm doing) And actually feeling like your hands
are better for it.
I started out looking to name a nine note phrase as a rudiment.
That's nothing compared to universe of singles, double, rests and
accenting that fits into various time signatures at many tempos.
Since the late eighties I've had major beefs about weird mystery
rudiments. I can't play them all and I don't want to! They don't
even have a flam followed by two alternate singles listed as a
rudiment (I don't think?) You know. The triplet we used to all play
as "BLa-ba-da BLa-ba-da BLa-ba-da BLa-ba-da" down the toms. There are
a lot of basic (really basic) combos that ought to be rudiments, like
George was indicating.
C'est la vie.
Chris
"George Lawrence" <drum...@ameritech.net> wrote in message news:<autN8.28252$d7.71...@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>...
Brandon Paluzzi
Sure they do.
It's called a flam accent or a swiss army triplet, depending on the
sticking.
flam accent = RF L R LF R L
swiss army = RF R L RF R L
both are in the PAS 40, the flam accent is in the original 26
b
On 12 Jun 2002, Chris Howe wrote:
> Since the late eighties I've had major beefs about weird mystery
> rudiments. I can't play them all and I don't want to! They don't
> even have a flam followed by two alternate singles listed as a
> rudiment (I don't think?) You know. The triplet we used to all play
> as "BLa-ba-da BLa-ba-da BLa-ba-da BLa-ba-da" down the toms.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
bra...@bpaluzzi.net http://www.conquestpercussion.com
Chris Howe
triplets. You're right, Brandon, about the triplet/flams you
mentioned (except for the reversing of the R's and L's. That's a bit
more challenging than always alternating the sticking.)
But I didn't know about the PAS 40 really until I just looked them up.
(Haven't studied rudiments since 1988.) The little rock/fusion fill
that I described (Cobham-style triplets) really would be a "single
stroke four" according to the PAS. Because we really play that fill
as packets of four. Whether the first two notes come out sounding
like a flam is a matter of execution.
Again, this: rlrL rlrL rlrL rlrL, played as triplets, could be a
"single stroke four" (if they are counted that way) or it could be a
modified flam triplet of the two you were referring. It's no big
deal, really.
Chris
Brandon Paluzzi <bp...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote in message news:<Pine.GSO.4.43L-024.020...@unix12.andrew.cmu.edu>...
George Lawrence
is a very basic sticking that isn't in the rudiment system. It was left out
because it doesn't alternate.
--
George Lawrence
George's Drum Shop
Akron, Ohio
http://www.drumguru.com
http://GeorgesDrumShop.com
«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
"If thine enemy wrong thee, buy each of his children a drum."
-Chinese proverb
_________________________________________________
«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤
"Chris Howe" <ch...@howeproductions.com> wrote in message
news:df9b8e8f.02061...@posting.google.com...
Ed Pierce
>is a very basic sticking that isn't in the rudiment system. It was left out
>because it doesn't alternate.
>
>--
>George Lawrence
>George's Drum Shop
>Akron, Ohio
Unless you're talking the 40 International PAS rudiments--the Swiss Army
Triplet IS included in this group, which if I'm not mistaken is the "bla-da-ba"
rudiment referenced here (although of course with a swiss triplet the first
note is a flam and not a unison hit). It took the Americans (or the
"International" Community) until the 1980's to decide this was important enough
to codify as a rudiment.
Ed Pierce
Brandon Paluzzi
George, are you talking about:
BRL BRL BRL BRL
Then it's the same sticking as a swiss triplet, just replacing double
stops with flams. The swiss triplet is in the PAS 40, and it does not
alternate, so I think it's the fact that the PAS doesn't do any "double
stop family" rudiments (a shortcoming that agree with you on)
bp
On Thu, 13
Jun 2002, George Lawrence wrote:
> if "bla-ba-da" is B R L, then I call them overlapping doubles, and yes, it
> is a very basic sticking that isn't in the rudiment system. It was left out
> because it doesn't alternate.
>
> --
> George Lawrence
> George's Drum Shop
> Akron, Ohio
> http://www.drumguru.com
> http://GeorgesDrumShop.com
>
> лд+елд+злд+елд+злд+елд+лд+елд+злд+елд+злд+елд+злд
> ппппппппппппппппппппппппппппппппппппппппппппппппп
> "If thine enemy wrong thee, buy each of his children a drum."
> -Chinese proverb
> _________________________________________________
> лд+елд+злд+елд+злд+елд+лд+елд+злд+елд+злд+елд+злд
> > > лд+елд+злд+елд+злд+елд+лд+елд+злд+елд+злд+елд+злд
> > > ппппппппппппппппппппппппппппппппппппппппппппппппп
> > > "If thine enemy wrong thee, buy each of his children a drum."
> > > -Chinese proverb
> > > _________________________________________________
> > > лд+елд+злд+елд+злд+елд+лд+елд+злд+елд+злд+елд+злд
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
bra...@bpaluzzi.net http://www.conquestpercussion.com
Larry Larraga
This sounds like you're describing a "Swiss Triplet" or "Swiss Army
Triplet:" http://www.moderndrummer.com/rsrc/img/swiss_triplet_1.pdf
Maybe? Used to play a lot of cadences in marching band days that had
these figures in 'em.
Larry Larraga
In article <df9b8e8f.02061...@posting.google.com>,
Brandon Paluzzi
What I think of as the "Cobham fill" (or now the carter beauford fill) is
not a single stroke 4. The single stroke four is 4 evenly spaced notes.
What Cobham plays (if we're thinking of the same thing) is 2 32nd notes
followed by 2 16ths. It's a little more of a "lilting" feel, since each
4-note phrase begins on syncopated counts (1__a __+_ _e__ 4__). Single 4s
would start on each downbeat (1_ 2_ 3_ 4_). In drumcorps world, that's
called a "herta"
Interesting note at the back about the flam accent turning into hertas.
Something I've been working with my students is starting a double stroke
roll (rrll, but for this example, think of it in the 4th inversion: lrrl)
and "slurring" it gradually into a swiss triplet (lRRL), then back.
Also have them do similar things with paradiddlediddles (rlrrll) into five
stroke rolls (R L rr ll) and paradiddles into triplets with a diddle on
the end (rlrr -> R L rr)
Gives them experience in playing a few different interpretations of the
same hand movements, so that they can play figures in different styles,
from a very "swung" shuffle or dot and cut type rhythm (like found in pipe
band), to an EXTREMELY literal or "tapspace" interp (like Santa Clara
Vanguard uses), to a very crushed or closed style (like the Concord Blue
Devils use)
Cool stuff to talk about...
b
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
bra...@bpaluzzi.net http://www.conquestpercussion.com
Billy Rhythm
> "Billy Rhythm" <billy...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:b8a754fb.02061...@posting.google.com...
> > That will only work if played in 3/3 time.
> >
> > www.billyrhythm.com/graph.jpg
> >
> > Bill
>
> I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, but you ARE kidding...right? Please tell
> me you forgot the smiley face! :-)
Yeah I'm kidding! :-) I just thought it would be a good opportunity to
drag up that 3/3 argument again. Geo. just missed the humor. Oh, for
the lack of the smiley!
Turn on the hot light! Let it shine wherever you go!
Chris Cole
"Billy Rhythm" <billy...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> Yeah I'm kidding! :-) I just thought it would be a good opportunity to
> drag up that 3/3 argument again. Geo. just missed the humor. Oh, for
> the lack of the smiley!
>
> Turn on the hot light! Let it shine wherever you go!
Whew!! :-) (For some reason, I suddenly crave Krispy Kreme donuts...)
Chris Howe
Just like to follow up a few important things I got out of your post.
1. The Cobham fills are just what you said. (2) 32d's (lr) followed by
(2) 16th's (LR). Not a rudiment but we still know what to do with
them. But they do sound like triplets by virtue of their note value.
Or 16th's counted in threes when played in clusters. You can see from
my writing I am NOT a drum teacher, so please excuse.
2. The idea of slurring the notes is one thats always fascinated me.
Like in the examples you gave (which I'll have to study more closely)
and also slurring between a very rigid straight time beat and its
swing or shuffle counterpart. As you just said yourself, there are
degrees within those two that you can control when you play that
create a type of tension that is fascinating on a musical and
philosophical level. At some point you learn "Hey, its not just a
straight feel or triplety feel- it's all that room in between as
well."
I just looked back at your post I've done that thing (by accident)
with the doubles and swiss triplets. That's great that you point that
stuff out to your students.
3. Finally, I'm not really into marching drum music, but I will try
to listen to it more closely. There's a lot of good syncopation
happening with that.
Now I know what they meant when they said "the beat goes on" (ouch).
Chris
Brandon Paluzzi <bp...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote in message news:<Pine.GSO.4.43L-024.020...@unix3.andrew.cmu.edu>...
Chris Howe
ACCENT that is not reversed each time it is played. It starts with
your dominant hand on the grace note for each accent group. (Are they
normally reversed with each cluster or not?)
Let's say your playing a hard rock shuffle and as you come to a fill
you play this in 1FA 2FA 3FA 4FA crash. You can also do it ala Billy
Cobham in a faster tempo where the flams simply become two alternate
32nd notes among 16ths, with unique and unpredictable phrasing. I
would have liked to have learned these modern groups of notes that we
have to got to alot of trouble to describe to one another as
rudiments.
Chris
eddyp...@aol.com (Ed Pierce) wrote in message news:<20020612232553...@mb-ma.aol.com>...
Chris Milillo
>
> What Cobham plays (if we're thinking of the same thing) is 2 32nd notes
> followed by 2 16ths. It's a little more of a "lilting" feel, since each
> 4-note phrase begins on syncopated counts (1__a __+_ _e__ 4__). Single 4s
> would start on each downbeat (1_ 2_ 3_ 4_). In drumcorps world, that's
> called a "herta"
I've always liked to vary the spacing and/or dynamics of the first two
notes in this type of rhythm. There is a fine line between a flam and two
separate 32nd notes in this context.
> Also have them do similar things with paradiddlediddles (rlrrll) into five
> stroke rolls (R L rr ll) and paradiddles into triplets with a diddle on
> the end (rlrr -> R L rr)
Ah, now you're talking about one of my favorite rudiments. I use the
paradiddle-diddle almost TOO often, but I mostly use a permutation which
many call the 6 stroke roll. R L L R R L. Works great for the "Motown
intro" fill and 16th note triplet applications.
As far as paradiddles, Mike Clark inspired me to come up with a cool
combination based on a "lick" he showed me.
Mike's "lick" was groups of three 16ths, with the first two 16ths of each
group accented.
1E(&)A2(e)&A.(3)E&(a)4.
Each group of accents begins with a drag. The sticking would be:
[rrL L] [rrL L] [rrL L] [rrL L] [rr L] (or the reverse)
Mike plays the grace notes of the drags WIDE open. Very cool sound.
My sticking, (utilizing pseudo-paradiddles) came out of my desire to
alternate instead of accent everything with the left is as follows.
ll [R L rr] [L R ll] [R L rr] [L R ll] R....
I've never been in drum corps, nor do I take a "rudimental" approach to
drumming, but having studied the rudiments early on has paid major dividends
in my playing... I don't have to think about stickings at all... They most
often simply happen in a stream of consciousness.
I am currently studying with Sam Ulano in NYC, and Sam HATES the term
"rudiments". If I say "rudiments", he always makes a point to say "that's a
MISNOMER!" He's a piece of work, but that's a whole other thread :-)
Thanks for reading,
CM
Dan Radin
news:aeamvv$a61$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
> paradiddle-diddle almost TOO often, but I mostly use a permutation which
> many call the 6 stroke roll. R L L R R L. Works great for the "Motown
> intro" fill and 16th note triplet applications.
Guilty as charged!
Jay Epstein
Thanks. This has been the most interesting thread I've read in weeks.
It makes me remember why I've hung around RMMP since '94, since iit
sure isn't for all the gearhead one-upsmanship or the jive posturing
that fills 90% of the bandwidth. I remember why I keep a practice pad
by the computer, too! The Mike Clark thing is very similar to one of
my fav hot licks as well, that I've also seen Billy Hart & Billy
Drummond use. In 3/8 (or 3/16) as well, the reverse of Mike's with
left hand playing the diddles:
(RRll) (RRll) (RRll) (RRll) (RRll) or
(RllR) (RllR) (RllR) (RllR) (RllR)
More technique & less bluster, please.
Jay
"You are what you rhythmically eat." - Bill Vits
Mark Polis
--
--
o-----´ç Mark Polis ç b.d...@suscom.net çª-----o
--
"Chris Milillo" <dr...@bestweb.net> wrote in message
news:aeamvv$a61$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
George Lawrence
--
George Lawrence
George's Drum Shop
Akron, Ohio
http://www.drumguru.com
http://GeorgesDrumShop.com
лд+елд+злд+елд+злд+елд+лд+елд+злд+елд+злд+елд+злд
ппппппппппппппппппппппппппппппппппппппппппппппппп
"If thine enemy wrong thee, buy each of his children a drum."
-Chinese proverb
_________________________________________________
лд+елд+злд+елд+злд+елд+лд+елд+злд+елд+злд+елд+злд
"Billy Rhythm" <billy...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
George Lawrence
corner now.
--
George Lawrence
George's Drum Shop
Akron, Ohio
http://www.drumguru.com
http://GeorgesDrumShop.com
«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
"If thine enemy wrong thee, buy each of his children a drum."
-Chinese proverb
_________________________________________________
«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤
"Ed Pierce" <eddyp...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020612232553...@mb-ma.aol.com...
George Lawrence
--
George Lawrence
George's Drum Shop
Akron, Ohio
http://www.drumguru.com
http://GeorgesDrumShop.com
«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
"If thine enemy wrong thee, buy each of his children a drum."
-Chinese proverb
_________________________________________________
«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤+¥«¤+§«¤
"Chris Milillo" <dr...@bestweb.net> wrote in message
news:aeamvv$a61$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
Chris Milillo
Let me preface any story about Sam by saying that I have learned more in
the past two months of studying with him, than I have learned in years. He
has an organized practice system which is geared toward sight reading. Sam
is a drill sergeant when it comes to reading. He has me reading the most
ridiculous shit imaginable, but my reading (which I thought was pretty damn
good) is now *MUCH* better. He purposely notates things in the most EVIL
ways, just to force you to truly realize the value of every note. (hard to
explain) Anyone care to sightread half note triplets? or triplets which
begin on the upbeat? Man, I was stumped, but now I see the light! :-)
Basically, Sam feels that rudiments have little or nothing to do with
musical drumming, and that they should cease to be called "rudiments".
"Rudiment" literally means the beginning, or first step. Sam feels that
students are being duped into believing that the rudiments are the
beginnings of drumming. He feels that most books in print today are
"horseshit" and a perpetuation of the bullshit tradition of drumming
education. He maintains that the drum "rudiments" are nothing more than an
antiquated study of strokes which were devised 100 years before a drum set
was even conceived.
At my first lesson Sam said, very seriously: "Chris, I'm sure you are a
good drummer, but you have to promise me something... Promise me that when
you leave here, you will immediately call up the teacher you studied with
for so many years and tell him he owes you a BIG refund and an apology! I
laughed my ass off. Sam didn't. :-)
Too much to tell,
CM
"George Lawrence" <drum...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:v_cO8.28625$d7.73...@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
TJ
Sam Ulano is the biggest freakin' scam artist in the world. Every real
player in NYC knows it. Talk about math music... Sorry bro, but his
view on 'rudiments' being antiquated while he pumps out page after page-
year after year of every possible permutation of note divisions in odd
meters is the quintessential example of obssessive compulsive disorder.
Chris Milillo
news:drummmhead-3E947...@news.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> I'm sorry... I have to say this...
Don't be sorry, TJ, but put your name to your strong words. I'll apologize
in advance for the length of my reply.
> Sam Ulano is the biggest freakin' scam artist in the world. Every real
> player in NYC knows it.
You must have a vastly different definition of "scam artist" than I do.
I am paying less than half the going rate for lessons and learning TONS. How
am I being scammed? What "scam artist" drum teacher do you know (ESPECIALLY
in NYC) who charges $25 per lesson? (Lessons which rarely last under 2 1/2
hours) Sam is a shameless self promoter, I'll give you that. However, we
should ALL be fortunate enough to make a living playing and teaching drums
into our 80s.
> Talk about math music... Sorry bro, but his
> view on 'rudiments' being antiquated while he pumps out page after page-
> year after year of every possible permutation of note divisions in odd
> meters is the quintessential example of obssessive compulsive disorder.
I don't *completely* disagree with your assertion that Sam teaches "math
music" or that his endless permutations are EVENTUALLY overkill, but if the
end result is a greater understanding of reading and rhythm, where's the
problem? Music IS math based, isn't it? Also, his organized system of
practice will benefit anyone who lacks focus or discipline. (i.e ME!).
You have some pretty extreme views on Sam, TJ. Have you studied with
Sam and found out for yourself that he is full of shit? Or are you just
going by what the "real" players say? I doubt you've ever taken a lesson
with him, because if you had, you'd know that Sam sings melodies/tunes while
reading and playing through the text and always talks about forgetting the
technical "horseshit" (his favorite word) and just making music.
I don't agree with everything Sam (or any other teacher) says, and I
argue/debate with him all the time. On Wednesday, he asked me, "Has anyone
ever told you that you have a stubborn streak?" I said, "Stubborn STREAK?
I'm stubborn to the core! Your typical hard headed Italian!"
If you read my original message again, you'll see that I said "I've
learned more in the past two months than I've learned in years." I have been
studying drums for nearly 25 years and needed a different approach. Sam
offers that, and has both opened and sharpened my "drumming mind" greatly
and inspired many ideas for both playing and teaching. Above everything
else, Sam exposed some GAPING holes in my knowledge and immediately began
filling them. I'm not sure how long I will study with him, but right now,
I'm learning at a breakneck pace and spending next to nothing; something I
thought was impossible, or at least improbable after many years of studying.
I'm not trying to convince you of anything, but I am speaking from
experience, not hearsay.
Stepping down from the soapbox,
CM
TJ
nice reply.. no shit.. really. Well thought out and a pleasure to
read. Hey, I'm glad you are digging your time with him. Everyone
should find someone they enjoy studying with. I'm just Sam's polar
opposite I guess but thats what makes the world go 'round...
good luck to you...
T
George Lawrence
What I think works well for learning note values and reading is having the
student transcribe songs from CD's. This serves many purposes; listening,
reading and writing.
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"If thine enemy wrong thee, buy each of his children a drum."
-Chinese proverb
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"TJ" <drumm...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:drummmhead-CBB54...@news.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...