Roland TD-5 or Alesis DM5...do they sound good?
Vic
them...what did you think of the sounds? I own an Alesis HR16, and a
Zoom RT-123, and I like both of those units, even though the cymbals
aren't the most realistic sounding.
Now I'd like to get into an electronic kit for cheap, so I'm looking
at used modules. I'm most interested in the renditions of acoustic
drums these modules provide. I don't care how many different sounds
they have, as long as the ones they DO have sound realistic. I'm also
open to other suggestions for modules/kits. Thanks in advance!
Vic
randy walker
Roland sounds. But I am sure it will do the job.
Doug Adair
model traditional acoustic drums better whereas the DM5 has bigger, brasher
sounds and more hiphop stuff. Your best bet is to try to find one (friend,
used store, etc.), bring some phones, and try the sounds out for yourself.
The cymbals are decent in both models (not *great* but OK). In the end, it
sounds like either will be a reasonable and inexpensive option for your
application, thought the D4 may have a slight edge (and possiby be a bit
cheaper as well ~$100-150).
Good luck,
Doug Adair
Matt Myers
> I have both the D4 and DM5. I find that the D4 (earlier model) tends to
> model traditional acoustic drums better whereas the DM5 has bigger, brasher
Which one would you say has better trigger-to-MIDI, or are they about
the same? I've got a ddrum AT, and any more I only use it for
trigger-to-MIDI. I'm thinking of selling it and getting a D4 or DM5 to
free up some rack space but I don't want something that isn't going to
get the job done.
Doug Adair
"Matt Myers" <as...@fluxcapacitor.net> wrote in message
news:3C521216...@fluxcapacitor.net...
The input specs on the DM5 are a little better I think, but I've never been
able to capture a significant improvement D4->DM5 from triggered acoustics
because of the inherrent problems with that mode (can optimize, at best).
Both modules work fine with pads or sequencing.
DA
bobgdds
you like to do hihat barks you can forget it with the d4.The dm5 is better
but I sold mine because I still did not like the response of the hihat
switch.I totally agree with the previous comments about the sounds. The d4
has some nice cymbal sounds....neither module allows true dynamic range
changes even though Alesis claims the dm5 does. Mine never did. None of them
come close to my Roland module.
"Doug Adair" <adair...@europa.com> wrote in message
news:JBr48.52$U41....@feed.centurytel.net...
Vic
One more thing...lets say (hypothetically speaking) I get this HUGE
tax refund and suddenly price is no longer an object...any other
modules I should look at? (I played a kit with a Roland TD-8 brain the
other day, I was pretty impressed with it...cymbals were quite good.)
Matt Myers
> One more thing...lets say (hypothetically speaking) I get this HUGE
> tax refund and suddenly price is no longer an object...any other
> modules I should look at? (I played a kit with a Roland TD-8 brain the
If price isn't an object, the only module worth considering is a ddrum
module.
Stuart McConaghy
AM, Vic at vf...@yahoo.com posted for all the world to see:
The TD-8 is a great brain, with better sound quality than it's older
brother, the TD-10. I'd thoroughly recommend it, it's a very fl;;exible
brain with great sounds. I'd also recommend the Yamaha DTXtreme brain,
although it has some weird cymbal samples, frankly the only thing I don't
like about it, but the sample import feature can help circumvent that.
Ddrums are nice but I find them personally to be very limited both
sound-wise and when it comes to editing features.
Stu
Stuart McConaghy - Proud endorser of Canopus Drums
http://www.noresponseonline.com / mailto:stu...@noresponseonline.com
Sonicbids Electronic Press Kit:
http://www.sonicbids.com/na/epk_frameset.asp?t_id=353&init=true
bobgdds
it!
"Stuart McConaghy" <stuartm...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:B87B00E0.21D1%stuartm...@mac.com...
Brandon Paluzzi
Oh, except for the DTXtreme.
And the DrumKAT
And the Kurzweil Event Station
Oh, and the TD-10E
Can't forget the TD-8
Oh, let's not forget the Boomtheory 0.0
Sheesh. Different modules do different things.
They all have their strengths and weaknesses.
If I wanted to play over loops, use basic sequencing, or any of the MANY
things that the ddrum brains don't do, I'd be out of luck if I followed
your reasoning.
The only thing you can do is decide what you want your module to do, and
then try and find which module can achieve those goals the best. There is
no "best" or outright winner.
BP
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
bra...@bpaluzzi.net http://www.conquestpercussion.com
Matt Myers
> Sheesh. Different modules do different things.
>
> They all have their strengths and weaknesses.
It's not as easily categorizable as that. This isn't "truck vs car",
it's "Toyota MR2 vs Acura NSX". ddrum stuff sounds and plays better than
everything you mentioned in your list of modules (discounting the BT 0.0
which I haven't used) except for the TD-10. The ddrum still sounds
better than the TD-10 IMO, but the gap is close enough that it's pretty
subjective.
> If I wanted to play over loops, use basic sequencing, or any of the MANY
> things that the ddrum brains don't do, I'd be out of luck if I followed
> your reasoning.
If money was no object then you could get a sequencer and be fine for
your examples. There are used sequencers all over the place that can be
had quite reasonably (if money was an object, as money tends to be).
For your example of playing over loops, serious looping demands a
sampler with a decent amount of memory. Casual looping (like what Trey
from Phish does, for instance) is doable with a ddrum3. Even then I'd
rather have an offboard pedal for it than to try and loop on the fly
with something else. That's just me though. At the very least, it's
quite possible to play to samples and loops with ddrum hardware, and to
do it well.
What else is on the list of many things that can't be done with ddrum
hardware?
One thing I like about ddrum is that they specifically don't incorporate
things like sequencing. Instead they pay attention to making a rugged
brain that sounds really good and plays like a dream. So yes, you pay
more and get less features, but you definitely need to take into account
how well ddrum units do the job. Why would people keep buying them if
this wasn't the case?
Personally I'm a fan of having one simple device for every task. A
robust, easy to use sampler with a good interface connected to a robust,
easy to use drum brain via MIDI is way more useful to me than a drum
brain that has one tiny (1/2 rack space? ugh..) interface and limited
sampler and drum brain functions that are buried under layers of menus.
Brandon Paluzzi
Have you even tried any Yamaha or DrumKAT stuff? To say that the Roland
is the only one that compares to the ddrum is foolish.
I'll say it again, they all have their strengths and weaknesses. Blind
allegiance to ddrum as being the be-all end-all of electronic percussion
is very shortsighted
BP
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
bra...@bpaluzzi.net http://www.conquestpercussion.com
Matt Myers
> Have you even tried any Yamaha or DrumKAT stuff? To say that the Roland
> is the only one that compares to the ddrum is foolish.
Yes. What ddrum stuff have you played?
> I'll say it again, they all have their strengths and weaknesses. Blind
> allegiance to ddrum as being the be-all end-all of electronic percussion
> is very shortsighted
Normally I'd not only wholeheartedly agree, but would openly mock
someone making a statement alluding to "the best". In this case though,
it would take a lot of proof to convince me that ddrum isn't the best
*if money is no object*.
Brandon Paluzzi
On Tue, 29 Jan 2002, Matt Myers wrote:
> Brandon Paluzzi wrote:
>
> > Have you even tried any Yamaha or DrumKAT stuff? To say that the Roland
> > is the only one that compares to the ddrum is foolish.
>
> Yes. What ddrum stuff have you played?
I'll admit, I have not played the older ddrum stuff. But I have played a
ddrum4, with both real heads and the newer mesh-head version.
> > I'll say it again, they all have their strengths and weaknesses. Blind
> > allegiance to ddrum as being the be-all end-all of electronic percussion
> > is very shortsighted
>
> Normally I'd not only wholeheartedly agree, but would openly mock
> someone making a statement alluding to "the best". In this case though,
> it would take a lot of proof to convince me that ddrum isn't the best
> *if money is no object*.
Once again -- if your goal is only to reproduce drum sounds, with the same
note being triggered on each pad each time you hit it, then ddrum is a
wise choice. But what if you want to play chords? Or stack two voices on
a pad, velocity switching between them? Or be able to play a melody on
one pad? Or advance through a song, one measure at a time with a hit on
the pads? Or use more than 10 inputs? Or trigger rim sounds from your
toms? Or use a FSR/Piezo type pad? There are many things the ddrum can't
do, and no amount of outboard gear will give it the ability to do it.
There's a reason that the guys who are doing progressive music and
expanding the role of electronic drums are NOT using ddrum, they're using
Yamaha, KAT, Roland, and Boom Theory. The ddrum stuff is FANTASTIC for
reproducing percussion sounds, but that's all it can do. It won't cut it
for a lot of people.
B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
bra...@bpaluzzi.net http://www.conquestpercussion.com
Matt Myers
> wise choice. But what if you want to play chords? Or stack two voices on
> a pad, velocity switching between them? Or be able to play a melody on
> one pad? Or advance through a song, one measure at a time with a hit on
> the pads? Or use more than 10 inputs? Or trigger rim sounds from your
> toms? Or use a FSR/Piezo type pad? There are many things the ddrum can't
My ddrumAT will do almost all of this, and it was made in the early 90s.
Certainly the newer ddrum models can do this as well. The only things it
won't do are the 10 inputs (which is just kind of nit picky IMO),
natively do the advance through a song via pad hits (which is easy to do
if you have an offboard sequencer), and allow for stacking voices on a
single pad (IIRC anything older than the AT will do this). Are you
seriously suggesting you can't use piezo pads with ddrum gear? That's
practically all I use anymore.
> There's a reason that the guys who are doing progressive music and
> expanding the role of electronic drums are NOT using ddrum, they're using
> Yamaha, KAT, Roland, and Boom Theory. The ddrum stuff is FANTASTIC for
The reason is probably more economical than anything to do with
functionality. You're thinking about sounds right now, but what about
how ddrum stuff *plays*?
Brandon Paluzzi
>
> My ddrumAT will do almost all of this, and it was made in the early 90s.
> Certainly the newer ddrum models can do this as well. The only things it
I didn't think the ddrum could do layering/crossfading/chords. I scanned
the manual, and could only find a way to do one sound per input. If it
can (ddrum 4, that is), I'll be the first to admit I was wrong =)
> won't do are the 10 inputs (which is just kind of nit picky IMO),
How nitpicky? The inputs as allocated give you 1 snare (using two
inputs), 1 ride, 1 crash, 1 set of hats, 3 toms, a bass, and 1 open input.
You can either have 4 toms, or 2 crashes. 3 crashes is right out. For a
system that wants to sell itself as an acoustic drum emulator, it's not
doing a great job.
> natively do the advance through a song via pad hits (which is easy to do
> if you have an offboard sequencer), and allow for stacking voices on a
> single pad (IIRC anything older than the AT will do this). Are you
> seriously suggesting you can't use piezo pads with ddrum gear? That's
> practically all I use anymore.
Sorry, I meant you can't use the FSR/Piezo combination pads (i.e., trigger
a rim sound from the same pad without using a separate input)
>
> > There's a reason that the guys who are doing progressive music and
> > expanding the role of electronic drums are NOT using ddrum, they're using
> > Yamaha, KAT, Roland, and Boom Theory. The ddrum stuff is FANTASTIC for
>
> The reason is probably more economical than anything to do with
> functionality. You're thinking about sounds right now, but what about
> how ddrum stuff *plays*?>
How economy? There are MANY ddrum endorsers that use it for emulating
acoustic drums. It's not like Boom THeory, where al intentionally keeps
things quiet due to NDA and the like. ddrum is trying to market
themselves, it's just a different target audience.
The ddrum stuff I played (and this agrees with what I've heard about the
older ddrum stuff, too) was GREAT in isolation. Play a snare pad on a
stand, and you get FANTASTIC dynamics, pressure sensitive, aftertouch
(which I _really_ dug), etc. However, start putting other drums around
it, and the sensitivity has to be seriously decreased to prevent false
triggering. PUt a bass amp in the room, and all bets are off. It's great
stuff for the studio, but I wouldn't know what to think of it if it's in a
live setting...
BP
(not trying to be argumentative, I do like engaging in these types of
discussions) =)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
bra...@bpaluzzi.net http://www.conquestpercussion.com
Matt Myers
> I didn't think the ddrum could do layering/crossfading/chords. I scanned
> the manual, and could only find a way to do one sound per input. If it
> can (ddrum 4, that is), I'll be the first to admit I was wrong =)
I've never actually used a ddrum4, so I'm just assuming. If it can't
then that would be pretty lame since the AT can.
> You can either have 4 toms, or 2 crashes. 3 crashes is right out. For a
> system that wants to sell itself as an acoustic drum emulator, it's not
> doing a great job.
I guess I usually use mine for drums only and I use real cymbals. Yeah,
ten inputs sucks when you put it into terms of having to get a single
brain and use it for an entire kit.
> How economy? There are MANY ddrum endorsers that use it for emulating
You said that a lot of drummers who are doing more progressive music are
using the lesser drum modules instead of ddrum gear, and I'm saying that
it's more likely something having to do with economic reasons. Like
maybe when they had no money they could only afford Yamaha units and so
now that they have budgets, they stick with what they're used to.
> (which I _really_ dug), etc. However, start putting other drums around
> it, and the sensitivity has to be seriously decreased to prevent false
> triggering. PUt a bass amp in the room, and all bets are off. It's great
While it would be easy for me to just say "you're wrong" here, I'd urge
you to go give it another go with some time to mess with it. I've used
my unit for acoustic triggering with no problems, and right now I use it
as a practice kit with a full band (the bass player's cabinet is right
next to my kit). There are never any issues related to the ddrum itself.
Granted, it's been a constant companion for about five years now so I'm
pretty familiar with it, but it didn't take much to get to that point.
> stuff for the studio, but I wouldn't know what to think of it if it's in a
> live setting...
As someone who has used it live, let me tell you, it's wonderful. It
depends on the pads though. My Hart Acupad stuff works really well but
my Pintech Concertcast stuff eats goat anus. I can set my Acupads up
above my floor tom and not have to worry about them moving or false
triggering with very little tweaking on my part. The Pintech stuff is
almost guaranteed to move on me at least once during a gig, and a
Concertcast without false triggering is like a night without stars.
Pintech's Dingbats are quite rico suave though.
> (not trying to be argumentative, I do like engaging in these types of
> discussions) =)
Indeed.