Nickel Drumworks: legal action
Nickel lawsuit
I am in the process of collecting information from consumers and
manufacturers who own or have purchased Nickel "piston drive" throw
offs from the Nickel Drumworks Company and have experienced failure of
the component and / or have had unsatisfactory warranty service from
Nickel Drumworks. The information may be used to support pending
litigation against Nickel Drumworks.
If you have experienced such problems I require a summary of the
problem along with any supporting documentation, including any
electronic or written correspondence you may have had with Nickel
Drumworks or their agents.
Your submission must include your full name and a daytime contact
number. You should also include the make of your drum and the date of
purchase.
Vaughn
"Nickel lawsuit" <nickelthrowo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f5644ad2.05012...@posting.google.com...
Dan
number.<<<
Your's too Mr. "Nickel."
Dan
-------------
"Nickel lawsuit" <nickelthrowo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f5644ad2.05012...@posting.google.com...
Sam Savoca
would get a response.
I've never owned one of the Nickel products and know nothing about them and
I still find this offensive.
Sam S.
"Nickel lawsuit" <nickelthrowo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f5644ad2.05012...@posting.google.com...
jkdr...@yahoo.com
JaKe
mf2112...@yahoo.com
OrgName: Delta Cable Communications Ltd.
OrgID: DLTA
Address: 5381 48th Ave.
City: Delta
StateProv: BC
PostalCode: V4K-1W7
Country: CA
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Parent: NET-24-0-0-0-0
NetType: Direct Allocation
NameServer: NS1.DCCNET.COM
NameServer: NS2.DCCNET.COM
Comment: ADDRESSES WITHIN THIS BLOCK ARE NON-PORTABLE
RegDate: 2001-06-26
Updated: 2004-08-10
TechHandle: AT118-ARIN
TechName: Thomas, Aaron
TechPhone: +1-604-946-1144
TechEmail: dnsa...@dccnet.com
OrgTechHandle: AT118-ARIN
OrgTechName: Thomas, Aaron
OrgTechPhone: +1-604-946-1144
OrgTechEmail: dnsa...@dccnet.com
On 27 Jan 2005 10:47:34 -0800, nickelthrowo...@hotmail.com
(Nickel lawsuit) wrote:
Regards
Mike
Vaughn
he's going to let anyone involved know who's who.
<mf2112NOSPAM*@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ujjiv0tpmj8vbrshb...@4ax.com...
chris...@hotmail.com
ripped off the piston idea from Nickel and just came up with new
levers.
IMO, it seems Nickel's the one with the beef here.
Sam Savoca
<chris...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1106859606....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
You all missed the point here. The anonymous litigious wanker is looking
for ammo in advance of filing a lawsuit against Nickel shipping known
defective product. The only ones that would be in that position would be
drum makers that shipped with his throw.
Hmmmm...
Good luck.
Sam S.
Glenn Dowdy
"Vaughn" <vau...@xmissionREMOVE.com> wrote in message
news:ctbkel$kpu$1...@news.xmission.com...
> Well, this isn't necessarily anonymous. If he's doing this then obviously
> he's going to let anyone involved know who's who.
>
with lawyers to protect his clients, and since he posted a publice apology
to Trick, you don't have to be a rocket psychiastrist to know that this
probably is Ronn.
Glenn D.
chris...@hotmail.com
h2
You *require* a summary of the problem and copies of documentation and
correspondence?
A submission *must* include full name, yadda-yadda?
I think what you have is a request, which typically uses phrases like
"please" and "thank you."
If you want to turn your request into something that must be obeyed,
perhaps you should file your lawsuit and then send subpoenas to
consumers and manufacturers who used Nickel throwoffs.
If you want to get participants in this newsgroup to participate in
your lawsuit -- because we all know how well drummers respond to
anonymous authority figures -- perhaps you should step out from behind
the Internet veil.
If you go forward with this seemingly silly exercise, my only request
is a front-row seat if jmt gives a deposition.
h2
mf2112...@yahoo.com
>Then why post anon?
Good question. Maybe one of our resident rocket scientists will have
an answer?
Regards
Mike
jmt
Can I get a few million $$$('Murcan) for Pain and Suffering? : )
(Also, my bass player is gonna want some Moolah cause the look on my
face when the little devil broke scared him so badly that he got
shitfaced drunk out of his gourd and pissed off his little wifey who
made him sleep in the goddam garage and when he a w o k e disoriented
and staggering and tripped over a picnic table and landed flat on his
large ass walked even funnier than usual for a few daze and we all made
fun of him for being a weenie and now he needs therapy and shit)...
(b r e a t h)
A N D due to the fact that some of the misguided Apes on the
premises actually pay occasional attention to my recommedations for
drums etc and went out and bought these snares when they normally
wouldn't and then were very disappointed when the instrument(s) in
question weren't all they'd hoped they be, and experienced the
heartbreak and angst and all-around not nice feelings of frustration and
indignation and eyePopping paranoia and Maybe just maybe Mike Fell(ape)
isn't Q u i t e as far out there as we thought he was and many of
the planetary movements seem to be out of whack and
BewareTheMarchOfIdaLupino and
May a dyspeptic* yak straddle your momma Amen;
jmt
I'm having an "O n l y i n 'M u r c a" Moment...
*For those of ewe who give not a damn, I've developed a new
Jehovah'sWitnessRemovalKit...(it Goes sumthin' like this):
1. One hand axe
2. One bottle Ketchup,(brand of your choice)
3. One pr Panties,(I prefer red, but suit yourself)...
4. Your Self, (nekkid)
The Following are the cunning yet simple instructions:
Remove A l l clothing from #4.(Ewe) Open bottle of
Ketchup(#2). Smear appropriate quantities of same on 4.(ewe),on
head/torso/wherever,(it's your House goddammitt) Smear more #2(ketchup)
on #1(handaxe), preferably to the stage of drippiness. Place pr
panties(3) over your head,(I kinda like the "Beret" look).
Now a n s w e r the door.
(the preceding will also work for vinyl siding salesapes,
nosy neighbors
choads of all ages)
Nickel lawsuit wrote:
--
God is a comedian playing to an audience that is afraid to laugh.
Voltaire
electr...@hotmail.com
nickelthrowo...@hotmail.com (Nickel lawsuit) wrote:
Apologies to all. The lack of a signature was an oversight and was not
intentional.
Ronn Dunnett
4587 57th Street
Delta, BC, CANADA V4K-3E4
604-643-9939
electr...@hotmail.com
"Vaughn" <vau...@xmissionREMOVE.com> wrote:
Actually you are uninformed. I made an improvement based on Nickel's
throw off., but I won't get into symantics with you.
electr...@hotmail.com
"RJ" <drumm...@lycos.nl> wrote:
> Ronn,sincere question..
>
> I ve seen your appolgy on drumsmith.
> All based on the issue you had with Trick conserning infrigment issues.
>
> Your new throw off is clearly based on the nickel strainers,
> >From what I understand in that appology you dont work with Nickel
> anymore and so I believe those arent made by him.
>
> In what way isnt your throw off not an infrigment?
>
> Rumours go that you actually designed the old Nickel throw and so if
> you own those rights there shouldnt be an issue..or is this suit going
> in that direction?
>
RJ: Sincere answer. I will post a full and complete accounting of what
has transpired to date. It will take some time to to do that, but I will
post it. Reserve judgement until that time.
jmt
You gotta be jokin'. RD, if this is really ewe, Post a soundfile
somewheres of ewerself hummin the Canadian national anthem with some
polyrhythmic percussive accompaniment...then post the link here. ; )
I thought it was just some Apey thurs Afternoon trollage;
jmt
electr...@hotmail.com wrote:
--
electr...@hotmail.com
> Ronn,sincere question..
>
> I ve seen your appolgy on drumsmith.
> All based on the issue you had with Trick conserning infrigment issues.
>
> Your new throw off is clearly based on the nickel strainers,
> >From what I understand in that appology you dont work with Nickel
> anymore and so I believe those arent made by him.
>
> In what way isnt your throw off not an infrigment?
>
> Rumours go that you actually designed the old Nickel throw and so if
> you own those rights there shouldnt be an issue..or is this suit going
> in that direction?
>
This is a very long story. I considered getting into the details, but I
doubt it would serve much purpose beyond entertaining a few who like
this sort of thing and / or adding more troll fodder.
But you ask some very good questions, so I'll answer.
This entire situation stems from the Nickel patent and from the one
thing Greg Nickel doesn't want you or anyone in the industry to know :
his patent is not on a "piston"; his patent is on the linkage,
specifically the motorcycle chain link that he refers to as a closed
loop link. What this means is that anyone in the industry can
manufacture a Nickel-like throw off providing they do not use the same
exact linkage as he does. My design never used his linkage and I was
never in need of his permission to manufacture my swivel lever throw off
and - like Trick - my design does not infringe on Nickel's patent.
I gave up half of my interest in my own invention - the swivel lever
throw off - because I believed Nickel when he told me I would be
infringing on his patent if I made my throw off without his involvement
/ cooperation. I guess I shouldn't feel too bad - look at how many
companies believed the same thing and bought Nickel throw offs by the
hundreds. DW, Premier, Craviotto, Dunnett, Gretsch to name a few.
But of course, the Nickel throw offs have a fatal flaw: they break. It's
not a question of if, it's a question of when. And when they started to
break something happened - Trick decided to make their own throw off.
And of course I thought that it was an infringement on Nickel's patent.
I asked Nickel why he wasn't going after Trick. First he said he was.
Later on he said they weren't infringing. I had to ask myself 'how
could they not be infringing? It's a piston!'. And as some of you may
know I criticized Trick for making what I thought was a throw off that
infringed on my friend's patent. A few other companies asked the same
question - and some decided to find out why. That's how the big secret
was discovered. And so at NAMM this year Nickel learned that his secret
was out. One manufacturer said they were going to start producing his
throw off. Nickel told me he wanted to use his interest in my patent to
persuade them not to make his throw off. That didn't work. NAMM buzz is
a pretty big thing and word went through the industry like wildfire. The
Nickel patent can be easilt circumvented by changing the linkage.
When was Nickel aware of this? According to public documents at the
USPTO, right from the start. His original patent was denied because as I
understand it the examiner told him you can't have a patent on a piston
- the piston first appeared in a patent by Meyer in 1914. (Have a search
at the uspto.gov website - patent # 01104373). Of course Nickel told me
otherwise and I signed away 50% interest in my inventionto him for the
tidy sum of $1.00. In return I got nothing.
I can live with life's lessons. Best friend's burn each other for
$10,000 (the amount Nickel claims he was offered for his interest from
one company - the company said they actually offered him half that to
just go away.) everyday right?
But what is at issue here - at least for me - is this: Nickel has sold
10's of thousands of these throw offs that inevitably fail - and do so
at great cost to both the manufacturer and the end user.
In October, tired of waiting for the promised metal T bracket I
contacted my supplier in Taiwan to have them make a die cast T bracket
for me. The supplier said they would need to check with Nickel first
becasue - like everyone else - they thought they would be infringing on
his patent. They asked Nickel if they could make this part for me and
Nickel said, No, do not make the part for Dunnett. Now, you have to ask
yourself why Nickel would stop a customer from taking care of his
customers. I asked Nickel why he would not allow this and his answer was
that he did not trust the Taiwanese and did not want them to think that
making this part for me would give them some sort of tacit approval to
make the entire throw off. In hindsight I think it was that he didn;t
want his secret to get out. Nickel promised that he would have a box of
cast T brackets at my house by Oct. 30, 2004. I checked this morning and
they are still not here. In not allowing me to spend the $ to get this
part made Nickel actualy saved me a few grand. How? Well, the cast T
bracket doesn't solve the problem.What happens is that the stress
migrates to the next weakest point - the point where the lever is pinned
to the body of the throw off. In fact, it breaks much faster at that
point.
And so after all of these "fixes" - extra plastic around the back of the
T and radiused edges through the strap slot and a different nut inserted
into the the T bracket and now a cast T bracket - the thing still breaks.
Now let's talk about Nickel's warranty policy. According to all the info
I have, if your throw off breaks the best you can hope for is to send
Nickel $5 for postage and he will send you one or two more T brackets -
hopefullt those will last until the cast T brackets arrive and
then...well...the thing STILL BREAKS! I told this to Nickel 2 days ago -
he didn't have so much as a clue that the cast T bracket didn't fix the
problem.
I shouldn't have to pay $5 every time a Nickel throw off fails and
neither should my clients and nor should any other manufacturer. Have a
look at this email exchange I had with Nickel a week ago:
Dunnett to client:
Ronn <ro...@dunnett.com> wrote:
Hi D
I am still waiting for parts / throw offs from **. They are
manufacturing the new all metal throw off. I should have a small number
of them when I get back from NAMM.
In the interim can you please contact Andy at Nickel Drumworks
(206-788-0524) and ask them to send you 2 replacement T brackets) These
are covered under warranty and you should not be expected to pay for
anything, including shipping. If you are asked to pay shipping or DO end
up paying for shipping please let me know immediately and I will
reimburse you and take the matter up with Nickel.
I will send you a replacement all metal throw as soon as possible.
Response from Nickel:
Ronn,
In the future do not dictate how my business is run. If you decide you
want to give away parts and shipping costs that is up to you but do not
decide for me. Also I would appreciate if you were to change the tone of
your letters to recipients. "I will talk to Nickel " has a very harsh
tone not one that reflects very high regard.
Call me with any questions.
Greg"Nickel"
--------------
No one has publicly defended Nickel more than I have because I believed
him every time he told me he had fixed the problem - the first time and
the second time and the third time. Bright boy that I am I got a little
suspicious the 4th time around.
I can no longer defend Nickel. Beyond the negative feelings I have as
far as the circumstances under which Nickel acquired 50% of the rights
to my invention, I feel even worse for my clients and for anyone who is
currently using a Nickel throw off. At some point ALL of those throw
offs are going to need to be replaced. I haven't seen anything from
Nickel that makes me feel like that is part of the plan. Nickel OEM
customers and their clients could be paying for this for a long time.
I'm already out a lot of money because of Nickel's failure to address
the problems with his product. Imagine the cost of having to continually
ship parts, especially overseas. I have seen boxes of broken throw offs
at Nickel's shop in Seattle and at a number of OEM's in California.
Hundreds, perhaps thousands of broken throw offs.
I plan to launch a lawsuit to recover the costs of replacing Nickel
Drumworks products on ALL Dunnett Classsic drums because I have a
responsibility to my clients. I think I have a pretty good case. Maybe
some individuals or other manufacturers feel the same way. It's way past
the time to fix the problem. Nickel has had 4 years and 4 tries.
That is the reason for this thread.
Doug Crooks
+++snip Ronn's post+++
Ronn,
I just wanted to thank you for the honest post. I appreciate the fact
that you, as a business owner, can not only admit a mistake with your
product, but take steps to rectify the situation (not only the lawsuit,
but by creating a product that fixes the problem of the Nickel throw's).
Is your throw available to Dunnett Classic owners who are looking to
replace an accident waiting to happen?
I've been using a Dunnett Classic stainless for the past 3 1/2 year with
no problems. Of course, now you have made me paranoid :)
Thanks again for the honesty, Ronn.
--
doug
Steve Turner
Ewe make my face hurt. Now I'll be too worn out to make like I'm wearing a
goatee! My wife ain't gonna like this...
Sincerely,
Turner
jmt wrote:
--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, change the chemical designation to its common name.
electr...@hotmail.com
Doug Crooks <perc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Doug I thank you for your understanding and I want to assure you that I
am doing everything in my power to produce my throw off as quickly as
possible. When your Nickel Drumworks throw off fails, contact me
immediately and I will make arrangements to get you a functional
replacement.
To be certain. my only mistake was believing Greg Nickel the
manufacturer of the throw off when he assured me the problem had been
addressed. I guess you'd count that as 4 mistakes. ;)
rhj...@comcast.net
Very interesting....so. why the appology on DS? Why did you close the
thread? You applogised for NOT bashing Trick? right.....your lawyer
yadayada....your lawyer, if he had a brain, would have forbidden you
from posting your appology. Or any of this very public junk. Heck,
they keep condemded prisoners from appologising until they are strapped
down to the table. An appology is almost an admission of guilt. Of
what? you claimed you didn't 'bash' trick...........makes no sense.
Oh...what ever on the patent. Nickel is a lever-piston design made
from plastics that are not 'beefy' enough to withstand some of the
presures placed on them. Nickel worked it for all it could in the
marketplace. You defended the design and your choice to use it on your
drums. Trick, is a screw-jack design. Similar? not at all to my way
of looking at it.
Oh yeah, I got two Nickels and they have not failed (I run the snare
straps as it was designed to do). I got two Tricks also. When/If the
Nickels break, I'll just get two Tricks.
Ray
rhj...@comcast.net
and why lock up the discussion on Drumsmith forum? (I noticed my post
somehow 'vanished', when all I did was comment at how funny it all was)
Oh well.
electr...@hotmail.com
sometimes ya gotta do what you gotta do
electr...@hotmail.com
chris...@hotmail.com wrote:
Actualy if anyone has a beef about a piston it's an inventor named Meyer
who first patented it in 1914. It is clearly referred to in the Nickel
patent and the patents of nearly ALL throw offs invented since.
Joey
electr...@hotmail.com
> Very interesting....so. why the appology on DS?
Because I publicly criticized the people at Trick for what I understood
to be a blatant infringement on the Nickel patent. In other words I
stood up for my good pal Greg Nickel. Just before NAMM when I learned
that Trick was not infringing (something Nickel probably always knew) I
realized how some of my comments and feelings toward Trick et al were
unfounded and unfair. I went to them immediately and apologized in
person. I also told them I would post a public apology, which I did.
Why did you close the
> thread?
Because of people like you.
You applogised for NOT bashing Trick? right.....your lawyer
> yadayada....your lawyer, if he had a brain, would have forbidden you
> from posting your appology. Or any of this very public junk. Heck,
> they keep condemded prisoners from appologising until they are strapped
> down to the table. An appology is almost an admission of guilt. Of
> what? you claimed you didn't 'bash' trick...........makes no sense.
Well, get someone to help you figure it out.
> Oh...what ever on the patent. Nickel is a lever-piston design made
> from plastics that are not 'beefy' enough to withstand some of the
> presures placed on them.
Gee, what an absolutely stunning piece of news.
Nickel worked it for all it could in the
> marketplace.
Well, what exactly was he supposed to do?
You defended the design and your choice to use it on your
> drums.
Yes I did. And I did it because the manufacturer assured me - and many
other OEM's that he had fixed the problem. I'm no the only one.
Trick, is a screw-jack design. Similar? not at all to my way
> of looking at it.
PISTON. Did you read anything I said? EVERYONE in the industry believed
Nickel got a patent on a PISTON. It took the largest manufacturer in
North America 5 years to figure out it wasn't a patent on a piston, but
on the linkage TO the piston.
>
> Oh yeah, I got two Nickels and they have not failed (I run the snare
> straps as it was designed to do). I got two Tricks also. When/If the
> Nickels break, I'll just get two Tricks.
Well the people at Trick will be happy as will Greg Nickel since he
won't have to replace yours out of his pocket.
electr...@hotmail.com
> and why lock up the discussion on Drumsmith forum? (I noticed my post
> somehow 'vanished', when all I did was comment at how funny it all was)
> Oh well.
Because I don't think it's funny. I posted an apology, not an invite to
Evening at the Improv.
mf2112...@yahoo.com
>In article <35ts3iF...@individual.net>,
> Doug Crooks <perc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> electr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> +++snip Ronn's post+++
>>
>> Ronn,
>>
>> I just wanted to thank you for the honest post. I appreciate the fact
>> that you, as a business owner, can not only admit a mistake with your
>> product, but take steps to rectify the situation (not only the lawsuit,
>> but by creating a product that fixes the problem of the Nickel throw's).
>> Is your throw available to Dunnett Classic owners who are looking to
>> replace an accident waiting to happen?
>>
>> I've been using a Dunnett Classic stainless for the past 3 1/2 year with
>> no problems. Of course, now you have made me paranoid :)
>>
>> Thanks again for the honesty, Ronn.
>> --
>> doug
>>
>
>Doug I thank you for your understanding and I want to assure you that I
>am doing everything in my power to produce my throw off as quickly as
>possible. When your Nickel Drumworks throw off fails, contact me
>immediately and I will make arrangements to get you a functional
>replacement.
Free of charge? Free for all Dunnett snare drum owners? Will it be
your new and improved throw off free of charge? It should be.
>
>To be certain. my only mistake was believing Greg Nickel
>manufacturer of the throw off when he assured me the problem had been
>addressed. I guess you'd count that as 4 mistakes. ;)
Yea it's all Greg Nickels fault. I would sure like to hear what Greg
Nickel has to say in all this.
That said if I owned a snare drum company and was even slightly
worried about a quality issue with a throw off I would not use the
throw off in question. In this case since you decided to continue to
use this throw even though it has been proven time and time again of
its unreliabilty I would have had somebody run it threw through it's
motions. You know test the thing. Test it well beyond what a drummer
would put it through. If it breaks you fix it than you test it again.
If it breaks again you fix it. You keep fixing it till it is able to
do its job. This way you don't have disgruntled customers,the
badmouthing of your suppliers in a public forum while he is not here
to defend himself along with lawsuits against said supplier. Pretty
pathetic if you ask me. Also, the snare drum maker is soley
responsible for problems with their products not their suppliers.
When Toyota has a recall you don't hear them blaming their suppliers
for a faulty part they take responsibilty and fix the problem. Bottom
line is YOU chose your supplier. If you don't like the quality of
your suppliers you find another supplier. That is how succesful
businesses operate.
Regards
Mike
mf2112...@yahoo.com
>
>> Very interesting....so. why the appology on DS?
>
>Because I publicly criticized the people at Trick for what I understood
>to be a blatant infringement on the Nickel patent. In other words I
>stood up for my good pal Greg Nickel.
With friends like you who needs enemies?
>Just before NAMM when I learned
You have allot to learn so what else is new?
>that Trick was not infringing (something Nickel probably always knew)
You think Trick would have built that Nickel replacement throw off if
it was infringing on a patent? Mr. Dorfman knows how to run a
business and has been doing so much longer than you. How you continue
to insult our intelligence just boggles my mind.
>realized how some of my comments and feelings toward Trick et al were
>unfounded and unfair. I went to them immediately and apologized in
>person. I also told them I would post a public apology, which I did.
>
> Why did you close the
>> thread?
>
>Because of people like you.
You can't close this thread.
>
>You applogised for NOT bashing Trick? right.....your lawyer
>> yadayada....your lawyer, if he had a brain, would have forbidden you
>> from posting your appology. Or any of this very public junk. Heck,
>> they keep condemded prisoners from appologising until they are strapped
>> down to the table. An appology is almost an admission of guilt. Of
>> what? you claimed you didn't 'bash' trick...........makes no sense.
Sure it does. What you got here is a conniving wacky Canadian. Need
I say more?
>
>Well, get someone to help you figure it out.
>
>> Oh...what ever on the patent. Nickel is a lever-piston design made
>> from plastics that are not 'beefy' enough to withstand some of the
>> presures placed on them.
>
>Gee, what an absolutely stunning piece of news.
Gee, Dunnett is rude.
>
> Nickel worked it for all it could in the
>> marketplace.
>
>Well, what exactly was he supposed to do?
>
>You defended the design and your choice to use it on your
>> drums.
>
>Yes I did. And I did it because the manufacturer assured me - and many
>other OEM's that he had fixed the problem. I'm no the only one.
LOL! IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. DW dropped Nickel well over a year
ago. Maybe more like two years ago. Lets make it real simple for you
Ronn. If Toyota built a car that had faulty brakes, was a known issue,
and ends up seriously injuring the driver, who gets sued Toyota or the
company that made the brakes?
>
> Trick, is a screw-jack design. Similar? not at all to my way
>> of looking at it.
>
>PISTON. Did you read anything I said? EVERYONE in the industry believed
>Nickel got a patent on a PISTON.
Everyone? You think maybe Trick believed it as well? Funny they built
a Nickel knock off piston and all ,sold thousands of them but, they
were not aware that their design infringed or not on the Nickel
patent. Somebody want to buy some swampland up in Canada?
>It took the largest manufacturer in
>North America 5 years to figure out it wasn't a patent on a piston, but
>on the linkage TO the piston.
Provide proof. This is only heresy.
>
>>
>> Oh yeah, I got two Nickels and they have not failed (I run the snare
>> straps as it was designed to do). I got two Tricks also. When/If the
>> Nickels break, I'll just get two Tricks.
>
>Well the people at Trick will be happy as will Greg Nickel since he
>won't have to replace yours out of his pocket.
Good to know you will be replacing all of your faulty or potentially
faulty throw offs free of charge right Ronn? You said yourself here in
this forum that these throws are faulty. Get going on your newly
designed throws so you can start giving them out FREE OF CHARGE to
your current customers.. Take care of the customer. That is how we do
things in the USA
Regards
Mike
electr...@hotmail.com
products here did you?
PLONK again.
Sam Savoca
been down the same road suing a supplier for faulty goods. Federal court,
half million dollar lawsuit with what I was told was a slam dunk case. I
ended up with nothing except a $100k plus legal bill. It damn near put me
out of business. If you think you can bring suit on the cheap, think again.
Lawyers at $100-300 per hour, expert witnesses, test engineers, lab fees, a
years worth of letters and briefs flying back and forth. Three days in
federal court alone was $50k. NOT to mention what all the lost time spent
on it does to your business.
***Consider all options before going down this road. I wish somebody had
spelled it out to me at the time.
Also, you shouldn't feel bad about your 50% of the patent. The piston part
was disallowed (prior art) and the linkage part is easily circumvented. No
big thing. That's why he never sold it. It isn't worth anything! Also,
the 1914 patent has expired.
Sam S.
Bob Wennersrom
electr...@hotmail.com wrote:
> I plan to launch a lawsuit to recover the costs of replacing Nickel
> Drumworks products on ALL Dunnett Classsic drums because I have a
> responsibility to my clients. I think I have a pretty good case. Maybe
> some individuals or other manufacturers feel the same way. It's way past
> the time to fix the problem. Nickel has had 4 years and 4 tries.
>
> That is the reason for this thread.
I'm glad to hear this. I broke two of the damn things, yet any mention
of Nickel problems in here invariably bring comments that we're trying
to slander Greg or have some sort of agenda against him. I just want
something that doesn't break on the gig, that's all.
Drummer at large
rhj...@comcast.net
Yes I did. I also have posted several times and places, including DS,
that to my thinking, the trick is a screw-jack design. Taint no piston
in my tricks. Hence, I never understood why you blasted trick about
their 'piston'. Maybe they make a piston design one....I've not seen
it. I also never understood why Trick didn't point out that they are a
screw-jack, and not a piston. Yes, I've taken both apart....nothing
similar about them to me.....except they are designed to apply tension
to snare wires on a snare drum.
Sorry you feel taken in by the Nickel hype and assurances. I never
did. I bought the Nickel's with full knowledge of possible
issues....and hoped if it happened to me, they would do right. Maybe
they won't. Chance I was willing to take. As a large manufacture, I
fully understand that this also can affect your reputation.
Sorry you took offence at my posting that your thread in DS was amusing
to me. You seemed to have about 20 close followers over there posting
'great job' for your appology to the Trick folks. I think there is a
few of us who understood the nature of both designs all along.
Liking your new web site. Looking forward to some more content on it.
You make some class stuff.
ray
Steve Turner
and maybe get some rabies shots while you're at it, eh? We all know
you've been longing for this moment, and that you've probably been
hopping around the house with joy ever since the story broke. The thing
is, we all know exactly what you have to say about it, and there are
probably 50 of us who could take a decent stab at our own mock-Fell
responses.
The thing that would impress me most right now is if you were take a tip
from Bill Bruford's absolutely tacit performance on "Trio" from King
Crimson's "Starless And Bible Black", and for which Robert Fripp
credited him with "exercising admirable restraint". I'll play Fripp and
you play Bruford. Ok, ready? GO!
Dan Radin
news:pjljv0lntgu0shoso...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 20:43:24 -0800, electr...@hotmail.com wrote:
> That said if I owned a snare drum company and was even slightly
> worried about a quality issue with a throw off I would not use the
> throw off in question. In this case since you decided to continue to
> use this throw even though it has been proven time and time again of
> its unreliabilty I would have had somebody run it threw through it's
> motions. You know test the thing. Test it well beyond what a drummer
> would put it through.
You mean like when he posted the videos of the throwoff pulling his car and
withstanding the weight and force of a bench grinder over a four foot drop?
Would you consider those to be conditions that are "well beyond what a
drummer would put it through"?
Dan Radin
news:cysKd.25096$iC4....@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
> All right Mike, how's about you go wipe the froth off your mouth now, and
> maybe get some rabies shots while you're at it, eh? We all know you've
> been longing for this moment, and that you've probably been hopping around
> the house with joy ever since the story broke. The thing is, we all know
> exactly what you have to say about it, and there are probably 50 of us who
> could take a decent stab at our own mock-Fell responses.
>
> The thing that would impress me most right now is if you were take a tip
> from Bill Bruford's absolutely tacit performance on "Trio" from King
> Crimson's "Starless And Bible Black", and for which Robert Fripp credited
> him with "exercising admirable restraint". I'll play Fripp and you play
> Bruford. Ok, ready? GO!
Nice.
Vaughn
news:electrobilge-2D23...@corp.supernews.com...
> In article <ctbdhl$ffj$1...@news.xmission.com>,
> "Vaughn" <vau...@xmissionREMOVE.com> wrote:
>
>> You took Nickel's design and made it your own, now this. Nice work Ronn.
>>
>> "Nickel lawsuit" <nickelthrowo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:f5644ad2.05012...@posting.google.com...
> Actually you are uninformed. I made an improvement based on Nickel's
> throw off., but I won't get into symantics with you.
same thing. semantics, schmemantics. trick took something and made an
improvement as well. it wasn't a semantics discussion then....it was an
alleged patent infringement and you let us all know it.
it is good to know all this detail, it would have been good to have included
with the first post. it is kind of funny how you've defended the nickel
throws, showed us video of you pulling your car and doing the strength
tests, assuring us they were strong enough, and now hearing you say it's not
"if" but "when". I get that you had to defend what you were selling but now
this. is it still true that those who replaced their nickel throws with
trick throws have voided their warranties? I'm surprised that you didn't do
enough research and didn't notice that greg nickel was not pursuing trick
for their alleged patent infringement and that major builders, who must have
been aware of the actual patent, were buying up the trick throws like candy.
I'm surprised that you of all people didn't go find out for yourself what
the patent really was about.
jkdr...@yahoo.com
JaKe
Glenn Dowdy
"Vaughn" <vau...@xmissionREMOVE.com> wrote in message
news:ctdpkl$6d3$1...@news.xmission.com...
> <electr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:electrobilge-2D23...@corp.supernews.com...
> > In article <ctbdhl$ffj$1...@news.xmission.com>,
> > "Vaughn" <vau...@xmissionREMOVE.com> wrote:
> >
> >> You took Nickel's design and made it your own, now this. Nice work
Ronn.
> >>
> >> "Nickel lawsuit" <nickelthrowo...@hotmail.com> wrote in
message
> >> news:f5644ad2.05012...@posting.google.com...
>
> > Actually you are uninformed. I made an improvement based on Nickel's
> > throw off., but I won't get into symantics with you.
>
> same thing. semantics, schmemantics. trick took something and made an
> improvement as well. it wasn't a semantics discussion then....it was an
> alleged patent infringement and you let us all know it.
>
Trick's alledged patent infringement were based on a wrong understanding of
the details of Nickel's patent. Ronn's admitted publically that he was
wrong. At the time, however, his logic was impeccable. No semantics
involved.
> it is good to know all this detail, it would have been good to have
included
> with the first post. it is kind of funny how you've defended the nickel
> throws, showed us video of you pulling your car and doing the strength
> tests, assuring us they were strong enough, and now hearing you say it's
not
> "if" but "when".
Was that Nickel's or was it Ronn's die cast design, which isn't dependent
upon the Nickel patent?
> I get that you had to defend what you were selling but now
> this. is it still true that those who replaced their nickel throws with
> trick throws have voided their warranties? I'm surprised that you didn't
do
> enough research and didn't notice that greg nickel was not pursuing trick
> for their alleged patent infringement and that major builders, who must
have
> been aware of the actual patent, were buying up the trick throws like
candy.
> I'm surprised that you of all people didn't go find out for yourself what
> the patent really was about.
>
I guess sometime trust in a friend and partner can be misplaced. Why, I bet
there are husbands and wives out there who don't have their partners
followed by private investigators just to make sure those "claims of
fidelity" are true. Fools, they, I guess.
Glenn D.
jkdr...@yahoo.com
JaKe
jkdr...@yahoo.com
Doesn't sound like Greg is an ISO 9100 ceritifed :-)
JaKe
Glenn Dowdy
<jkdr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1106932226.5...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Your a smart business man. Suppliers can make you or break you.
> Doesn't sound like Greg is an ISO 9100 ceritifed :-)
>
products; it means you have processes and you follow them.
Glenn D.
jmt
Easy question, ok? Once you Knew that the damn thing was a
problem, why not just admit it, replace them with something that, (at
the very least) doesn't break under pressure, and regroup. You're a
smart ape, why not eliminate the problem asap? As I've mentioned, the
Throw problem wasn't the reason I swapped the Ti for the NC. (the Ti
just wasn't intrusive enough to suit me) ; ) You went waaay outta your
way to accomadate me during our little transaction(s), and I Never
forget That...
gonna try the Stainless though; ; )
Best wishes;
jmt
electr...@hotmail.com wrote:
> jmt, it's sad but true
> sometimes ya gotta do what you gotta do
--
God is a comedian playing to an audience that is afraid to laugh.
Voltaire
jmt
You mentioned, "This is only heresy."
You're killin' me here...(Hearsay I'd reckon)
r o f l m a o(again and again)
jmt
mf2112NOSPAM*@yahoo.com wrote:
--
Chris Milillo
news:35vc29F...@individual.net...
> Dear FellItLikeItIs;
> You mentioned, "This is only heresy."
I laughed my ass off when I read that, myself! Priceless...
CM
mf2112...@yahoo.com
He wasn't pulling his car with the throw off per se. It was the part
that holds the strap. What happened was Nickel beefed up one part and
the next weak link in the chain broke. That said that is not the way
to test a throw off. He should have put the throw on some sort of
device that could turn it on and off automaitically while keeping
tension on the area where the strap goes. This way you can test every
single part on the throw off and determain its overall reliability.
Regards
Mike
mf2112...@yahoo.com
<bbqb...@H2OlooWoodworks.com> wrote:
>All right Mike, how's about you go wipe the froth off your mouth now,
LOL, my keyboard has an inch of foam on it.:-)
>and maybe get some rabies shots while you're at it, eh?
LOL!
> We all know
>you've been longing for this moment,
Actually I never thought about it.
>and that you've probably been
>hopping around the house with joy ever since the story broke.
I would never wish misfortune on anyone including Dunnett.
> The thing
>is, we all know exactly what you have to say about it, and there are
>probably 50 of us who could take a decent stab at our own mock-Fell
>responses.
>
>The thing that would impress me most right now is if you were take a tip
>from Bill Bruford's absolutely tacit performance on "Trio" from King
>Crimson's "Starless And Bible Black", and for which Robert Fripp
>credited him with "exercising admirable restraint".
Believe it or not I AM.:-)
>I'll play Fripp and
>you play Bruford. Ok, ready? GO!
I got it.
Regards
Mike
mf2112...@yahoo.com
<glenn.n...@hpspam.com> wrote:
>
>"Vaughn" <vau...@xmissionREMOVE.com> wrote in message
>news:ctdpkl$6d3$1...@news.xmission.com...
>> <electr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:electrobilge-2D23...@corp.supernews.com...
>> > In article <ctbdhl$ffj$1...@news.xmission.com>,
>> > "Vaughn" <vau...@xmissionREMOVE.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> You took Nickel's design and made it your own, now this. Nice work
>Ronn.
>> >>
>> >> "Nickel lawsuit" <nickelthrowo...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>message
>> >> news:f5644ad2.05012...@posting.google.com...
>>
>> > Actually you are uninformed. I made an improvement based on Nickel's
>> > throw off., but I won't get into symantics with you.
>>
>> same thing. semantics, schmemantics. trick took something and made an
>> improvement as well. it wasn't a semantics discussion then....it was an
>> alleged patent infringement and you let us all know it.
>>
>Have you been paying attention? The basis of Ronn's statements regarding
>Trick's alledged patent infringement
Ronn was a fool for not doing his homework. For that he tried to
destory Trick while covering the fact his throws could not stay in one
piece. You know the old "if you replace your Nickel with a Trick I
will void your warranty" . Ronn was well aware that was a good
durable throw off. That scared him since his throw was not ready for
primetime.You think Trick would have made their throw (Model GS007)
while selling thousands of them if they infringed on a patent? Mike
Dorfman has been in business a long time for a reason.
>>
>I guess sometime trust in a friend and partner can be misplaced.
If he trusted his friend why was he pulling BMWs to test the strength
of the faulty part?
Regards
Mike
chris...@hotmail.com
then you don't have the balls to take your lumps when you apologize.
You do make a beautiful product, but you sure have some sever emotional
issues to sort out.
First; you might want to reconsider your "shoot first, ask questions
later' tactics. Second; it's probably a good idea to keep all
correspondence regarding pending legal action private. Third; when you
do make a fool out of yourself, be a man and take the criticism.
electr...@hotmail.com
"Sam Savoca" <maxom...@erols.com> wrote:
Thanks Sam. Right now I'm looking at all of my options, but you raise
some very valid points.
Steve Turner
electr...@hotmail.com
chris...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Funny Ronn, you have the gall to wrongly bash Trick in a public forum;
> then you don't have the balls to take your lumps when you apologize.
I'll gladly take them...from the offended party. Or perhaps you and a
few others might like to also accpet the apology on behalf of Trick.
Man, some people have strange perceptions of entitlement.
> You do make a beautiful product, but you sure have some sever emotional
> issues to sort out.
Yeah, you know, you're right.
>
> First; you might want to reconsider your "shoot first, ask questions
> later' tactics.
Point. taken
Second; it's probably a good idea to keep all
> correspondence regarding pending legal action private.
Point taken.
Third; when you
> do make a fool out of yourself, be a man and take the criticism.
By letting other fools outdo me? That's ok.
>
nick amoroso
>
>On 27 Jan 2005 15:06:14 -0800, chris...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>>Then why post anon?
>
>Good question. Maybe one of our resident rocket scientists will have
>an answer?
>Regards
>Mike
who cares? you guys attack him when he defends nickel and his products, and
then do *exactly* the same thing when he decides he's had enough and wants to
try to do some good for the people who have had to deal with one broken
throw-off after another.
damned if he does, damned if he doesn't, i see.
hell, you've seen me defend nickel for YEARS, and i've had enough. the last
straw was when he attempted to *charge* me for replacement parts. i can't wait
to replace every nickel throw-off i own.
gonna attack me now?
peace,
:nick amoroso:
professional drums and instruction
http://www.nickamoroso.com
http://nickamoroso.blogspot.com
-----
'I've been all around the world, and I've never seen a statue of a critic." ~
Leonard Bernstein
RJ
>
> I plan to launch a lawsuit to recover the costs of replacing Nickel
> Drumworks products on ALL Dunnett Classsic drums because I have a
> responsibility to my clients. I think I have a pretty good case.
Maybe
> some individuals or other manufacturers feel the same way. It's way
past
> the time to fix the problem. Nickel has had 4 years and 4 tries.
>
> That is the reason for this thread.
thanks for the answers
but..
when you say you plan this to cover your costs you have a good reason (
dont know if its a good case) to go ahead..
Yet if you only do this for yourselves and your customers you should
have all the info right in your computer,
you are famous for keeping records on emails . ;)
so in that sence I absolulty dont understand why you want info on ALL
the broken throw around the world..
I have the feeling you are doing more then just getting information
you feel misled by nickel and perhaps ripped off left behind I dont
know..but why do you need to go back on the net and slaughter away?
I hope that this time it isnt just a story on the net like last
namm..remember the $50.000,- lawsuite? I do..
nick amoroso
>
>Glenn D.
>
>ps Happy Birthday, Nick
>
LOL. thanks, buddy. :-)
Glenn Dowdy
"nick amoroso" <soul...@aol.comICAL> wrote in message
news:20050128150735...@mb-m24.aol.com...
> >
> >
> >On 27 Jan 2005 15:06:14 -0800, chris...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> >>Then why post anon?
> >
> >Good question. Maybe one of our resident rocket scientists will have
> >an answer?
> >Regards
> >Mike
>
> who cares? you guys attack him when he defends nickel and his products,
and
> then do *exactly* the same thing when he decides he's had enough and wants
to
> try to do some good for the people who have had to deal with one broken
> throw-off after another.
>
> damned if he does, damned if he doesn't, i see.
>
> hell, you've seen me defend nickel for YEARS, and i've had enough. the
last
> straw was when he attempted to *charge* me for replacement parts. i can't
wait
> to replace every nickel throw-off i own.
>
> gonna attack me now?
>
h2
In addition, ISO 9100 is a standard for the dimensions of wide-mouth
glass containers.
ISO 9001 is the standard for quality management systems.
h2
P.S. ISO 9010 is the standard for automotive belts. 8-)
Glenn Dowdy
"h2" <hmh...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1106944908....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
the worst paper in the history of academia for an international business
class titled "ISO 9000: Gateway to Europe". I think it was the very last bit
of work I submitted for my MBA, so by then, I just didn't care.
Glenn D.
h2
True, trust can be misplaced.
But surely you agree that there's a difference between having one's
spouse shadowed and having your attorney review someone's patent before
you enter into a cross-licensing and/or revenue-sharing agreement.
It's Ronn's misfortune that such a review did not occur (or so I
infer).
It seems like there may be two legal issues here: recovery of damages
for previous use of Nickel strainers, and renegotiating/cancelling the
agreement to share future revenues. Whether I'd pursue the former
depends on how much money was at risk, the likelihood of winning a
judgment, and the likelihood the judgment would be paid.
For the latter, there may be grounds for renegotiation based on
misrepresentation or bad-faith negotiation. But, as Sam noted, it could
be Pyrrhic victory or worse.
Max
Yeah, I'll attack you but only because you got to have lunch with Kelly
Brady and RD and I didn't! Other than that, we cool...
Happy Birthday!
Max
"nick amoroso" <soul...@aol.comICAL> wrote in message
news:20050128150735...@mb-m24.aol.com...
> >
> >
Glenn Dowdy
> Glenn,
>
> True, trust can be misplaced.
>
> But surely you agree that there's a difference between having one's
> spouse shadowed and having your attorney review someone's patent before
> you enter into a cross-licensing and/or revenue-sharing agreement.
>
> It's Ronn's misfortune that such a review did not occur (or so I
> infer).
Yeppers.
>
> It seems like there may be two legal issues here: recovery of damages
> for previous use of Nickel strainers, and renegotiating/cancelling the
> agreement to share future revenues. Whether I'd pursue the former
> depends on how much money was at risk, the likelihood of winning a
> judgment, and the likelihood the judgment would be paid.
>
> For the latter, there may be grounds for renegotiation based on
> misrepresentation or bad-faith negotiation. But, as Sam noted, it could
> be Pyrrhic victory or worse.
>
Sam gave some great advice, and to his credit, Ronn is reviewing it. Ronn,
I've got one of your snares with the Nickel strainer. I'll probably replace
it soon, but I'm not worried about it costing me $5 to get a replacement
part from you or whatever it costs to replace the strainer. I didn't buy it
for the strainer. Please don't put yourself through that legal nightmare on
my account. Cut your losses and spend the regained time with your kid.
Glenn D.
Glenn Dowdy
"Max" <sa...@indoorstorm.com> wrote in message
news:3GxKd.1407$gA2...@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> Nick,
>
> Yeah, I'll attack you but only because you got to have lunch with Kelly
> Brady and RD and I didn't! Other than that, we cool...
>
stole my seat. ;) Regarding lunch, did you know that Denny's is open during
the day? Who knew?
> Happy Birthday!
Again, and again...
Glenn D.
rhj...@comcast.net
Nope, not at all. Just glad you see the side a large portion of us
have seen for at least a year about the failure rate. Glad you
defended Nickel, but a lot of put-downs occured in the process. maybe
not from you, what do I know. It's just that, for all the legal advice
Ronn says he gets.....man, I'd get a new lawyer. You don't publish
this stuff in the clear.
Dan Radin
news:KHxKd.6860$TM7....@news.cpqcorp.net...
> "nick amoroso" <soul...@aol.comICAL> wrote in message
> news:20050128150735...@mb-m24.aol.com...
Someone get that man a Fosters!
h2
I think a bunch of people (me included) jumped on an anonymous request
trolling for information to be used in a potential lawsuit.
Criticizing that anonymous post isn't quite the same thing as attacking
Ronn for deciding to stop using Nickel, nor is it criticism of his
intent -- as you put it -- "to try to do some good for the people who
have had to deal with one broken throw-off after another."
It seems to me that the tone of the comments changed dramatically once
Ronn confirmed the post was his and explained his intent.
But hey, there's very little chance of having a newsgroup thread about
a civil lawsuit in which all of the posters agree or in which all of
the conversation remains, well, civil.
Just my .0153 Euros.
nick amoroso
>nick,
>
>I think a bunch of people (me included) jumped on an anonymous request
>trolling for information to be used in a potential lawsuit.
i totally understand that, howard. my post was mainly directed at those who
have used this situation as just another reason to (poorly) attempt to ridicule
ronn/nickel/whomever. i'm especially enjoying reading one particular poster
who has gone out of his way to demean nickel and his products for years, now
doing everything but *defending* him because he'd rather attack ronn instead.
now THAT'S what i call conflicted. :-)
mf2112...@yahoo.com
wrote:
>>
>>
>>On 27 Jan 2005 15:06:14 -0800, chris...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>Then why post anon?
>>
>>Good question. Maybe one of our resident rocket scientists will have
>>an answer?
>>Regards
>>Mike
>
>who cares? you guys attack him
Poor Ronn is the victim here. His personality is why he is attacked.
>when he defends nickel and his products, and
>then do *exactly* the same thing when he decides he's had enough and wants to
>try to do some good for the people
You mean to tell me backing up your product is doing good for people?
You put unreliable throw offs on you drums it is your responsibility
to replace said throw offs. Ronn chose these throw offs as he has been
aware for quit awhile of their unreliability. Now he is here talking
behind nickels back and trying to gather people to file a class action
lawsuit against Nickel while not posting his name.
> who have had to deal with one broken
>throw-off after another.
You failed to mention while he was defending his junk he was bashing
his competitions products as well including the beloved P-85. He chose
to play in the mud.
>
>damned if he does, damned if he doesn't, i see.
>
>hell, you've seen me defend nickel for YEARS, and i've had enough. the last
>straw was when he attempted to *charge* me for replacement parts. i can't wait
>to replace every nickel throw-off i own.
>
>gonna attack me now?
No. When Dunnett makes a thread stating you are a sex offender you can
talk to me about who was attacking who. Since Ronn tried to ruin my
online reputation i figure all bets are off. That said I have been
pretty easy on Ronn. It could be allot worse. I am showing a great
deal of restraint here.
Regards
Mike
mf2112...@yahoo.com
Glad I could bee of some entertignment fore ewe.:-)
Regards
Mike
Robert Campbell
Bob
Pat McDonald
never had any trouble with them other than they loosen as I play. I
have to snug the snares back up after every song it seems. I've
never taken the time to see if they can be tightened up a bit. Anyone?
Pat
Mark Rance
"nick amoroso" <soul...@aol.comICAL> wrote in message
> >
>>nick,
>>
>>I think a bunch of people (me included) jumped on an anonymous request
>>trolling for information to be used in a potential lawsuit.
>
> i totally understand that, howard. my post was mainly directed at those
> who
> have used this situation as just another reason to (poorly) attempt to
> ridicule
> ronn/nickel/whomever. i'm especially enjoying reading one particular
> poster
> who has gone out of his way to demean nickel and his products for years,
> now
> doing everything but *defending* him because he'd rather attack ronn
> instead.
> now THAT'S what i call conflicted. :-)
But if one defends, for years, product N, and then one comes to a point
where they acquiesce to the fact that product N is not up to snuff, it
leaves the door wide open (at least) to the suggestion that it never was.
In that case, the years of defenses were seemingly baseless and although
probably well-intentioned, equally flawed. Am I missing a piece of the
puzzle here? The throw off either works or it doesn't. The fact that you
may have now reached your threshold on the failures that others have been
screaming about, for years, is sort of irrelevant. The fact is that you
defended the product N and cast negative aspirations on others who did not
share your view. To them, I would think, your would feel a need to offer a
heartfelt apology.
-Mark
RJ
> who cares? you guys attack him when he defends nickel and his
products, and
> then do *exactly* the same thing when he decides he's had enough and
wants to
> try to do some good for the people who have had to deal with one
broken
> throw-off after another.
well (assuming you include me )
you could also look at it this way.. its not defending trick and now
defending Nickel..
Its the bashing on trick then and now on nickel
there are plenty of examples where one company had problems with
another.. we new about it yet nothing came out in the open even after
the issues where solved in court..
Nowing the history with Ronn abit when it comes to shouting about
lawsuites,I feel this is nothing more then some mudthrowing or his way
to let the agression out I dont know..
>
> hell, you've seen me defend nickel for YEARS, and i've had enough.
the last
> straw was when he attempted to *charge* me for replacement parts. i
can't wait
> to replace every nickel throw-off i own.
very understandable,
> gonna attack me now?
no..
Donn Deniston
It appears to me that Ronn made two errors: He trusted someone he
considered a friend and he made some business decisions based on a personal
relationship. You can argue the wisdom of those choices but I find it
difficult to fault someone for trusting and defending a friend. Sadly it
looks as if it will/has cost Ronn a bit of money and time and will no doubt
provide some cynics with more ammo to go after him, but I prefer to hang on
to what little shred of hope I have for the inherent goodness of people.
(But damn, it's getting harder and harder to do these days).
I like Ronn and respect his work and outspokenness (is that a word?) even if
I don't always agree with his opinions. Based on the information he has
shared with us, I don't think his chances of prevailing in this suit are
very good. I suspect his decision to defend and support an obviously
defective product, despite the fact that he was doing so based on false
information and at considerable expense to himself, will be the fatal flaw
in his case.
But then again, when comes to law and lawyers, nothing surprises me anymore.
As a good friend of mine likes to say, and with good reason, we don't have a
justice system, we have a legal system. Big difference.
And now if you'll excuse me, I'm going downstairs to sue my wife for making
me this god-awful cup of coffee.
Oh dear. . . . .
>
> it is good to know all this detail, it would have been good to have
included
> with the first post. it is kind of funny how you've defended the nickel
> throws, showed us video of you pulling your car and doing the strength
> tests, assuring us they were strong enough, and now hearing you say it's
not
> "if" but "when". I get that you had to defend what you were selling but
now
> this. is it still true that those who replaced their nickel throws with
> trick throws have voided their warranties? I'm surprised that you didn't
do
> enough research and didn't notice that greg nickel was not pursuing trick
> for their alleged patent infringement and that major builders, who must
have
> been aware of the actual patent, were buying up the trick throws like
candy.
> I'm surprised that you of all people didn't go find out for yourself what
> the patent really was about.
>
>
Mark Polis
--
--
o-----´ç Mark Polis ç b.d...@suscom.net çª-----o
"You play because you must." - drummer Tony Williams
--
--
"Donn Deniston" <deniston3...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:McOKd.1057$cl1...@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Chris Milillo
"h2" <hmh...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> Just my .0153 Euros.
Which, at this point, is about $30 US. :-)
CM
George Lawrence
can make a mistake and not see a flaw in a design and there are always
unforeseeable accidents that can happen with a product. I'm designing a lug
that has some new features that no other lug has. I will be beta testing the
stew out of the thing.
--
George Lawrence
George's Drum Shop
2091 Front Street
Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio 44221
website http://www.GeorgesDrumShop.com
email geo...@georgesdrumshop.com
330 940 DRUM (3786)
toll free 866 970 0800
fax 330 940 3785
"If thine enemy wrong thee,
buy each of his children a drum."
-Chinese proverb
"Donn Deniston" <deniston3...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:McOKd.1057$cl1...@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
electr...@hotmail.com
"Glenn Dowdy" <glenn.n...@hpspam.com> wrote:
Awesome advice Glenn. I am still considering all of my options and as a
result of this thread I have learned there may be many more than I first
anticipated - some that provide maximum gain for minimal pain.
electr...@hotmail.com
Steve Turner
> Hey Dennis - great response. True and accurate. My thanks.
Donn, you mean. :-)
--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, change the chemical designation to its common name.
Robert Schuh
> Hey Dennis - great response. True and accurate. My thanks.
Ronn,
You were responding to Donn Dennison, a normal guy, not LArdo the
stalker. :-)
--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche
Donn Deniston
:)
"Steve Turner" <bbqb...@H2OlooWoodworks.com> wrote in message
news:1NfLd.12096$2e7....@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
Donn Deniston
"Robert Schuh" <r...@robschuh.com> wrote in message
news:41FD8C1E...@robschuh.com...
RJ
electr...@hotmail.com wrote:
> In article <1106853138.5...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> "RJ" <drumm...@lycos.nl> wrote:
>
> > Ronn,sincere question..
> >
> I gave up half of my interest in my own invention - the swivel lever
> throw off - because I believed Nickel when he told me I would be
> infringing on his patent if I made my throw off without his
involvement
> / cooperation. I guess I shouldn't feel too bad - look at how many
> companies believed the same thing and bought Nickel throw offs by the
> hundreds. DW, Premier, Craviotto, Dunnett, Gretsch to name a few.
>
so the new throws you have now are all made by Nickel then?
electr...@hotmail.com
"Donn Deniston" <deniston3...@earthlink.net> wrote:
Opps! I knew that! So confused...must sleep...
electr...@hotmail.com
Steve Turner <bbqb...@H2OlooWoodworks.com> wrote:
> electr...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > Hey Dennis - great response. True and accurate. My thanks.
>
> Donn, you mean. :-)
Yes! Donn! Sorry Donn!!!!
electr...@hotmail.com
"Donn Deniston" <deniston3...@earthlink.net> wrote:
Maybe you should double on the N's in Donn...er...OK...plan B?
electr...@hotmail.com
"RJ" <drumm...@lycos.nl> wrote:
No. I now produce my own throw offs.