Black Nickel vs. Black Chrome
luca...@my-deja.com
Black Nickel plating and Black Chrome?
What makes Black Chrome black?
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Before you buy.
Stephen Mulholland
luca...@my-deja.com wrote in message <8i2reo$5e5$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>What is the difference between
>Black Nickel plating and Black Chrome?
>What makes Black Chrome black?
Its blackness.
Stephen Mulholland
mulho...@rocketmail.com
#>
Kristallin01
>Black Nickel plating and Black Chrome?
>What makes Black Chrome black?
>
A night out with Chris Rock?
BrianN&C
<luca...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8i2reo$5e5$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> What is the difference between
> Black Nickel plating and Black Chrome?
> What makes Black Chrome black?
>
>
Anthony Giampa
to a plater get a quote on some drum hardware getting black nickeled (lugs and
rims, strainer, butt). My understanding was that black nickeling was SUPER
cheap, but it turns out the guys wanted $60 PER RIM, and probably another $60
or some for all the smaller parts. I held back my laughter as we left and went
to the powdercoater (entire job: $45!).
Which is the one that's supposed to be cheaper? Black nickel or chrome?
- - -
Anthony Giampa (Impe...@aol.com)
Rookie Drummer, Addicted Drum Tinkerer
http://www.geocities.com/area51/dunes/6895/index.html
Rich B
>I'm a little curious about this myself (black chrome, black nickel). I went in
>to a plater get a quote on some drum hardware getting black nickeled (lugs and
>rims, strainer, butt). My understanding was that black nickeling was SUPER
>cheap, but it turns out the guys wanted $60 PER RIM, and probably another $60
>or some for all the smaller parts. I held back my laughter as we left and went
>to the powdercoater (entire job: $45!).
Tradeoffs, Ant. Plating will last much longer than powdercoating.
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Anthony Giampa
True. But that price is FRIGGIN rediculous.
Pat McDonald
<***nospam***barc...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
> It's like Black Leather. You can see yourself in it.
It prompts one to ask the question "How much more black could it be?'
And the answer is none...none more black.
; )
Pat
Robert Schuh
That is how Pat likes his men too! :-)
--
Robert Schuh
"The Most Trolled Man On The Internet!"
Stevie, Trane, Jaco, Jimi and Bird are GODS!
Donate your organs. Save a life.
Proud Endorser of Spaun Drums
luca...@my-deja.com
In article <w4915.20148$0T2.3...@typhoon.columbus.rr.com>,
"BrianN&C" <***nospam***barc...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
> It's like Black Leather. You can see yourself in it.
Ray Ayotte
Here is a short reply as it relates to metal drum parts.
Most metal drum parts are made from die cast zinc (Zmac 3), die cast
aluminum, machined aluminum, machined and rolled steel, machined
stainless steel, steel tube, machined brass. There are others but this
list comprises more than 99%.
Of the above the most used are die cast zinc, machined and tube steel.
The die cast zinc must be finished because it reacts to acids and oil
from handling. Steel very simply rusts.
Both cast zinc and steel can be finished by coating with paint: powder
coating. This is efficient and relatively inexpensive. However, because
the coating is thick it does not work well with screw-type or moving
parts.
Plating of drum metal parts, while not inexpensive, offers durability
and an attractive finish.
Most metal plating you see on drums is chrome plate. Chrome plate
involves first polishing the metal to a very high lustre followed by a
three step plating process: copper + nickel + chrome.
Copper because it adheres well to zinc and steel (and also has a filling
quality much like wood putty - sometimes, for very high lustre and high
quality finish you will copper is plated twice = double copper plate
chromeplate). Nickel because it is very hard. And chrome because it is
transparent and shiny and very hard.
What makes black nickel black because is the addition of a black oxide
in the nickel plate stage. Black nickel has a dark metallic look. It is
not literally black. It still has a transparent quality to it. But,
nickel is not very shiny.
The black nickel is then plated with transparent chromium to make it
harder and shiny.
The very short answer: black chrome is chromeplated black nickel.
Ray Ayotte
ayo...@home.com
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drumguru
Teacher! Teacher! (waving hands furiously) What is ferro-manganese steel
and does it have anything to do with the superior sound of my Sonor
snare?
--
George Lawrence
Drumset artist, teacher, author
Nashville TN
http://www.drumguru.com
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Remove SPAMBLOCK from my email address to reply
Ray Ayotte
RayA
ayo...@home.com
luca...@my-deja.com
In article <39468FCA...@home.com>,
Ray Ayotte
Adding manganese to steel results in an alloy which is stiffer, harder,
tougher, more machinable...
I would venture that your snare easily projects a bright and dynamic
sound.
Of course, we can't ignore the Sonor's craftsmanship and decades of
metalworking mastery.
You have a great sounding drum because it is well made of high quality
material, the attributes of which promote a good musical sound.
Lemmesee if I can say it another way... ferro-managanese alloy = good
snare shell material.
Ray Ayotte
ayo...@home.com
>
> drumguru wrote:
> >
> > Teacher! Teacher! (waving hands furiously) What is ferro-manganese steel
> > and does it have anything to do with the superior sound of my Sonor
> > snare?
> >
-MIKE-
And that's exactly what it was, nothing like it. :-b
ha-ha! I've been waiting to use that line. Sorry Ray, you are the
king and the man, rolled into one. :-)
I'll shut up now,
-MIKE-
--
RMMP Charity Snare Drum Raffle Site:
http://mikedrums.com/raffle.html
Douglas Estok
If you'll tolerate a dumb, slightly off-topic sidebar here, Ray, do
you know the best way to get an anodized finish off of aluminum parts?
I've heard Easy-Off oven cleaner will do it...any other ideas? Are
there issues with corrosion if the aluminum is unprotected by the
(lack of the) anodized finish?
Thanks for your patience and insight.
Gunga galunga...err...gunga la gunga.
Doug
Ray Ayotte
Aluminum will corrode if not protected, particularly if it is being
touched with your hands. Easy-Off oven cleaner is very effective in
removing almost anything off anything, easily.{Easy-Off is the only
stuff I could find to remove the white paint Remo uses when they
silkscreen an Ebony head.} ;-)
Not only does anodizing protect aluminum from corrosion but it also
makes the surface harder, making it more scratch resistant. Unlike
plating, which, by the way does not work well with aluminum, anodizing
actually penetrates the surface of aluminum to varying depths, depending
on the process. The anodizing process actually chemically hardens the
oxidized surface of the aluminum and penetrates to a depth determined by
aggressiveness of the method employed. It will be almost impossible to
get it all off with a chemical.
Anodizing can lend a hi-tech look to metal parts. Take a look at some of
the CNC machined aluminum parts used on hi-end bicycles and motorcycles.
Wow! And check out some of the cool colours!
The look of the anodized finish will depend on how the surface was
prepared: buffed, polished, sanded, brushed, etc...
My question to you: why and off what are you trying to remove anodized
finish?
Aluminum is not used in drum manufacturing as much as it could be. It is
strong, light and durable, but it does scratch more easily (depending on
the grade of aluminum). You can cast aluminum, machine it, and finishing
it is relatively inexpensive.
Ray Ayotte
ayo...@home.com
Douglas Estok
to remove the red anodized finish off my CNC-aluminum brakeset from my
mountain bike. It doesn't go with my new bike :) It's simply an
aesthetic issue, not one based on performance.
Of course, while aluminum is a spiffy, sexy metal---thought arguably
not as gee-whiz as titanium or some of the metal matrix alloys---most
metallurgists say that if CrMo steel were discovered today, it would
be hailed as the holy grail, in that it's cheap, plentiful, easy to
work with, easy to fix, etc. But it doesn't have the gee-whiz factor,
and it is subject to rust.
Thanks for the input, Ray!
Doug
Ray Ayotte
Anodizing can be surprisingly cheap.
Dig out your yellow pages, look under Metal Finishers and/or Anodizing.
Tell the nice man exactly what you have and what you want to do: namely,
you have a CNC aluminum brakeset for your mountain bike - it's red - you
want to change to colour. Ask him what it involves and whether he'd be
interested in doing it. You could ask whether he is doing a "run" of
other parts in the colour you want. Would he add your part to the "run"?
And while you're at it tell him someone suggested the Easy-Off...
And, doesn't the CrMo steel weigh more?
good luck
Douglas Estok
terms of tubing, butting, machining and swaging can bring down the
weight. Of course, that also drives up the price, negating that
advantage, at least...
I'll check on some of the metal shops in town...didn't consider that
option. I was just going to go with raw metal. Re-anodizing with a
clear coat, provided they're doing a run on clear, should help the
lifespan and anti-corrosion.
Doug
Benjamin Jacoby
: Funny you should mention bicycles...it just so happens that I'm trying
: to remove the red anodized finish off my CNC-aluminum brakeset from my
: mountain bike. It doesn't go with my new bike :) It's simply an
: aesthetic issue, not one based on performance.
Ray covered anodizing pretty good but I think there are a couple of
ideas still missing here. Let me have a go at it.
I actually have a setup to anodize my own drum parts and have made
a few special purpose clamps etc that I anodized and use.
The deal is this: if you make a part of aluminum and leave it sit around
for a few months or years, it "corrodes" from stuff in the air. Partly
this is aluminum oxide partly other stuff (depending on whats in the
air). What happens (verified by my personally) is that after a time
your clamp or whatever starts to look all dark grey and dingy like
an old washing machine part. Now unlike steel and some other metals
alumium is "self-protecting". What that means is that as the outside
oxidizes (rusts) the coating of aluminum oxide that forms actually
protects the metal from further corrosion (usually!) which is why
aluminum has been popular in various things like washing machines etc.
OK. Then some cat got the great idea to actually do something to
pre-oxidize the aluminum before you use it. That way it's already
coated with a protective layer. And the way you do that is a process
which is the reverse of plating. You attach the aluminum piece
to the "anode" of a plating setup (in plating the part goes on the
cathode) and essentially de-plate the aluminum. Basically that's all
there is to it. A vat of acid, a lead cathode (doesn't react) and the
aluminum part as the "anode"...hence the term... ;-)
Now the longer you let the current flow, the more of the metal is
converted to oxide by the current and the thicker the coating is.
This coating is rather grey looking and is called a "hard coat"
because aluminum oxide is harder than aluminum. Aluminum oxide is
the stuff some sandpaper grit and grinding wheels are made of.
Normally the anodized aluminum you see on decorative objects is
not hard coated.
On those objects (drum/bike parts) a thinner hard coat is applied
to the metal which is protective but still rather transparent
so the metal still pretty much looks like aluminum. The next step
is to dye the object. The metal can't be dyed but the oxide anodized
coating is full of microminiature pores that will absorb dye if the
molecules are small enough. Common RIT clothing dyes will work in
certain colors like red and yellow but usually the molecules of
darker colors are too large to work. Black dye for anodizing is
a very special item but can be purchased from anodizing supply
houses. Yellow or red parts are very easy to make but black
anodizing is a bear and takes lots of magic to get nice deep
black colors. Often it turns out an awful brown!
OK, so now we've oxided the part, we've soaked the part in dye
which soaks into the coating. And finally we seal the part.
The "sealing" process is very simple. You just boil the part in
water! It turns out that aluminum oxide has two forms, the first
is the hard form mentioned above and the second is a hydrated
form which has several molecules of water attached. The hydrated
form is softer, though still decently hard for protecting metal.
But the cool thing is that when you boil the part the act of
changing the composition of the coating also seals the dye into
the pores of the coating sort of forever.
So now you understand that there are two different things here
if say you wanted to remove the red color from a bike part.
One would be to simply remove the dye or bleach it out leaving
the aluminum oxide coating still there. Depending on the dyee
and how well it is sealed sometimes you can remove the dye
with things like oven cleaner, bleach or the like. This still
leaves the part protected but just with the color gone.
But to really "de-anodize" a part (and yes, I've had to do this
on a number of occasions when the damn black dye didn't take!)
is you just reverse the anodizing process. You put the part back
into the anodizer and reverse the current to it. This pulls the
oxide coating off the metal and the soaked in dye as well. Once
you've got all the anodizing and dye off, they you can put
the current back the right way and put a new coat of oxide
back on the part ready for another attempt at dying and sealing
(or a different or no color).
So now you have "the rest of the story"
No doubt much more than any of you wanted to know about
aluminum parts and anodizing!
Benj
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-MIKE-
-MIKE-
--
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Benjamin Jacoby
: And why is this the first I've heard of this procedure? Hmpf, some friend.
: -MIKE-
Um, because you never asked about it before? :-)
I know, same reason I didn't hear about Pat blowing into town...
I have to say it's not really hard to set up. I've got this variable
voltage power supply (about 0-48 volts at a few amps). Lower current
takes longer but if the current is too high it heats the bath (unless
you have water cooling) and will seal the aluminum right in the
anodizing bath. Then the dye won't take at all.
I have this gallon china crock lined with lead for the tank. And
all I do is fill it with Acid (I think it's 15% sulfuric but don't
quote me on that unless I really go look it up). You have to make
a clamp for the part out of aluminum. I use two aluminum angle pieces
I bolt together to grab the part. That's it.
I've done a special clamp for agogo bells, cowbell rods and some other
stuff. The big problem is size. You have to have a big enough tank
so that the part is not too near the walls. The gallon tank
is OK for small parts but I have these various aluminum rods I use
to clamp the hihats etc. which are about a foot long and 3/4" in diameter.
They are starting to look kinda ratty and I'd love to anodize them,
but I need to come up with some kind of long skinny tank to do
longer rods. Unfortunately I haven't gotten around to that yet.
But I do have to say that if you whip out some specialized clamps
and stuff and anodize them black it really tweeks out the old
drumset. (Even if the color is often a bit off). For larger
volumes of stuff (example drum lugs) I'd recommend getting a pro
shop to do it. They (usually) have all the magic down to get
super nice colors. Just check out the anodizing on the DramFrame
to see how cool that is. Also pro shops have huge tanks so you
don't have to deal with the size problem either. The down side is
that while anodizing is cheap, there is usually a large setup
charge so that doing a single part can be expensive.
And let me say this about the DrumFrame. (Aluminum Anodized and
dyed black). The hard coating really protects the parts.
I've mostly just been throwing the rack parts into the
hardware bag not wraped up or anything and they still look
pertty much like new. Only a couple of nicks where they really
got wacked. Anodized aluminum is a decent engineering material
so naturally, Bob Gatzen figured that out too!
Clayton
once a layer of aluminum oxide had formed on the metal, the corrosion
stopped. The aluminum oxide actually provides the corrosion properties of
aluminum and its alloys, doesn't it?
Clayton
Ray Ayotte <ayo...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3949188E...@home.com...
Ray Ayotte
aluminum.
Ray Ayotte
ayo...@home.com
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