Pockenholz wood
Justin Bailey
The drummer for Meshuggah (Tomas Haake, MR. Poly-rhythmic hemiola drummer) made
his snare drum out of pockenholz wood. It is supposedly the hardest wood, and
has a green color. But I can't find it anywhere, including wood encyclopedias.
There might possibly be another name for it, because Mr. Haake is Swedish.
But it sounds AWESOME! The perfect "crack" sound.
If anyone has any information, please help! I know I didn't dream this up....
Justin Bailey
- - - - - - - - - - - -
"The road of good intentions is paved with Hell." - Spencer Ante
Robert Schuh
I was under the impression that the Ironwood that Spirit makes their solid shell
drums out is the hardest and most dense wood.
--
Robert Schuh
"The Most Trolled Man On The Internet!"
Stevie, Trane, Jaco, Jimi and Bird are GODS!
Donate your organs. Save a life.
Proud Endorser of Spaun Drums
John Van Ness
Ironwood I saw at NAMM in the Spirit booth. It sinks when you throw it in
water! I did a search for hardwoods in an effort to try and help Justin, but no
luck. I have a feeling what Tomas is calling "pockenholz" has another name in
English (I'm Swedish, and I don't know what the hell he's talking about).
Aside from that, whatever sound Tomas is getting on his drum is not a result of
the wood only. It's the wood, the size, the edges, the thickness, the bearing
edges, the snare bed, the snares, the heads, the sticks, the playing technique,
the mics, the mic technique, the studio (and everything in it), and any
hardware attached to the shell, etc.
This reminds me of the article from a few years ago of the guy that obsessed
over finding a ride "just like Tony's". Once the guy played on the genuine
article in a band context (with Tony's band), he realized it was Tony's touch
and stick choice that were the larger contributors to the sound character.
I give the impression of being bored , but I am not really.
I've just got an incredibly boring face. - Charlie Watts
Ray Ayotte
Yeah, I'm looking around too.
Pockenholz, if German, would mean (literally) pock-marked wood.
"pocken"= pocked, or pock-marked and "holz" = wood.
Could it be a highly figured birch?
I will keeping looking.
The Swedes like to use Pockenholz for fine furniture.
John Good likes rare woods. Maybe he has cronies who would know.
take care,
Ray
Justin Bailey
interview with Tomas Haake. He labeled it pockenholz, and said it was the
hardest wood. He built the snare drum himself, and said that the natural color
of the wood is a darkish green color.
And I understand that the wood is only one out of many ingrediants for the
tone, but WOW! The tone is awesome. If you are very open-minded, and can tune
out the death-metal groan grunting "sing"er, than I suggest you check out the
band Meshuggah. Then you will hear the snare-crack from heaven (or maybe hell,
given the musical genre :) )
Thanks!
cpb...@merriweb.com.au
dw...@aol.com (John Van Ness ) wrote:
> You beat me too it Rob! I can't imagine a wood any harder than the
Cooktown
> Ironwood I saw at NAMM in the Spirit booth. It sinks when you throw
it in
> water!
Sorry to spoil it for you guys but on the big scale of things Cooktown
Ironwood isn't that extreme. It sits around with Wandoo on the Janka
Hardness Scale (about 18). The timber that takes the cake in Australia
is definitely Desert Oak (which isn't an oak, it's a casuarina) which
tops the scale at 22! Hate to drop a piece of that on my toe! Yikes!!
I'll see what info I can find on the mysterious Pockenholz!
:) Kelly Brady
Brady Drum Company
ke...@bradydrums.com
________________________________
More Bark. More Bite. All Brady.
http://www.bradydrums.com
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Ina
> Pockenholz, if German, would mean (literally) pock-marked wood.
sounds German... I'm German but have never heard that word...
> "pocken"= pocked, or pock-marked and "holz" = wood.
if it really *is* a German word than I would imagine it means
something like the above mentioned.
Ina
=== musician cartoons @ http://home.pages.de/~ina/cartoons/music_e.html ===
John Van Ness
Robert Schuh
> You beat me too it Rob! I can't imagine a wood any harder than the Cooktown
> Ironwood I saw at NAMM in the Spirit booth. It sinks when you throw it in
> water! I did a search for hardwoods in an effort to try and help Justin, but no
> luck. I have a feeling what Tomas is calling "pockenholz" has another name in
> English (I'm Swedish, and I don't know what the hell he's talking about).
>
> Aside from that, whatever sound Tomas is getting on his drum is not a result of
> the wood only. It's the wood, the size, the edges, the thickness, the bearing
> edges, the snare bed, the snares, the heads, the sticks, the playing technique,
> the mics, the mic technique, the studio (and everything in it), and any
> hardware attached to the shell, etc.
>
> This reminds me of the article from a few years ago of the guy that obsessed
> over finding a ride "just like Tony's". Once the guy played on the genuine
> article in a band context (with Tony's band), he realized it was Tony's touch
> and stick choice that were the larger contributors to the sound character.
>
> I give the impression of being bored , but I am not really.
> I've just got an incredibly boring face. - Charlie Watts
There is wood from the AZ desert here that is also called Ironwood. Someone asked
if it was the same thing. I told him "NO WAY." Australia is a such a wild place
being that it was isolated from the other continents for so long that it's
evolution in all aspects in life is just a completely different animal. Just look
at a Platypus and you will see what I am talking about. For Christ's sake, it is a
egg laying mammal that is poisonous! Look how goofy Jim and Matt from Spirit are
too! :-)
Robert Schuh
> In article <20000308175137...@ng-cn1.aol.com>,
> dw...@aol.com (John Van Ness ) wrote:
> > You beat me too it Rob! I can't imagine a wood any harder than the
> Cooktown
> > Ironwood I saw at NAMM in the Spirit booth. It sinks when you throw
> it in
> > water!
>
> Sorry to spoil it for you guys but on the big scale of things Cooktown
> Ironwood isn't that extreme. It sits around with Wandoo on the Janka
> Hardness Scale (about 18). The timber that takes the cake in Australia
> is definitely Desert Oak (which isn't an oak, it's a casuarina) which
> tops the scale at 22! Hate to drop a piece of that on my toe! Yikes!!
>
> I'll see what info I can find on the mysterious Pockenholz!
>
> :) Kelly Brady
> Brady Drum Company
> ke...@bradydrums.com
> ________________________________
> More Bark. More Bite. All Brady.
> http://www.bradydrums.com
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
Thanks Kelly! This type of participation from so many manufacturers is
what is so cool about this group!
Robert Schuh
> I'm naming my next band Pockenholz...I just like saying it. ;-)
>
> I give the impression of being bored , but I am not really.
> I've just got an incredibly boring face. - Charlie Watts
That is cool, but I still have the name Priapism locked up for my band!
:-)
13612
--
Best Regards,
13612
Bill Ray
http://www.billraydrums.com
Robert Schuh <rsc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:38C7C70F...@yahoo.com...
Ray Ayotte
According to The Oxford-Duden German-English dictionary:
"pocken" = "die pockennarbe" - pockmark; "pockennarben" - pock-marked;
"pocken" - smallpox
"die pocke" - pock
and, when I used my trusty translator, German-English "pockenholz" got
me smallpox wood!!??!!
I have discovered that Pockenholz is used in high-end Swedish furniture.
I wonder if the Swedes use this word to describe any highly-figured,
birdseye-type wood, like birdseye maple?
Anyway, the search is still on.
take care,
Ray
Justin Bailey
to say that on this particular drum, the wood was not a tan or brown or black
or red natural color. The drummer said it is a green wood, and that is the
natural color of the wood.. I hope that helps.
Cliff Hyslop
Justin Bailey <raysp...@cs.comYUCKspam> wrote in message
news:20000308160811...@ng-cn1.news.cs.com...
> I know someone out there has heard of Pockenholz wood.
>
> The drummer for Meshuggah (Tomas Haake, MR. Poly-rhythmic hemiola drummer)
made
> his snare drum out of pockenholz wood. It is supposedly the hardest wood,
and
> has a green color. But I can't find it anywhere, including wood
encyclopedias.
>
> There might possibly be another name for it, because Mr. Haake is Swedish.
>
> But it sounds AWESOME! The perfect "crack" sound.
Just for the record, assuming you're talking about the recorded sound and
not up-close experience, you can make just about any snare sound (within
reason and size limitations) sound like any other snare with enough tweaking
and the right engineer.
Otherwise, no Pearl endorsers would ever get to use their drums to record an
album. Oops! :)
Interested to hear what comes of this thread - I've never heard of that
wood. Anybody know?
Cliff
Ina
> I have discovered that Pockenholz is used in high-end Swedish furniture.
> I wonder if the Swedes use this word to describe any highly-figured,
> birdseye-type wood, like birdseye maple?
that would be what I imagine. I emailed a carpenter... let's see
if he knows it (still waiting for answer) - *damn* - initially
I didn't care what the hell "Pockenholz" is but now I'm really
curious ;-)
Ina
"Towards a better understanding of the term Pockenholz"
Master Thesis by Ina Becker
1. German grandmother's recipe against allergies:
From: http://www.allgaeu.de/tips/schoenh.htm
Ausschläge aller Art
Stiefmütterchen 10 g, Wermut 5 g, Hirtentäschel 5 g, Arnika 5 g, Brennessel
5 g, Birkenblätter 5 g, Erdrauch 10 g, Silbermantel 5 g, Wacholderbeeren 5 g,
Klettenwurzel 5 g, Schließgras 5 g, Ehrenpreis 10 g, Spitzwegerich 10 g,
Pockenholz 5 g
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ **** so if you dont's need the snare no more there is an
alternative use ;-)
In der Apotheke mischen lassen. 1 l Apfelwein und die Mischung in ein
Einmachglas geben, bei 20°C 14 Tage stehen lassen, dann abseihen. Etwas
Salizyl zugeben, damit der Apfelwein nicht sauer wird. Nach Belieben süßen.
Nach dem Essen 3 x 1 Eßlöffel voll nehmen.
(yaddayadda --- too lazy to translate... if somebody is seriously interested
mail me)
2. more serious stuff:
From a dictionary http://www.siegl.de/6inf_sta/chapter26.htm
Franzosenholz = Pockenholz = Lignum Guaiacum = Guajaco 374-379,
From http://www.siegl.de/6inf_sta/stappel.htm
Palyzanderh. = Jakarandaholz = brasil. Pockholz =
Zuckertannenholz = Sukkador = blaues Ebenholz =
^^^^ (blue)
Violettholz: violettes hartes Holz mit schwarzen Adern,
in Brasilien 10 Jacarandaholzarten aber nicht alle von
Jacaranda
hard wood with black veins
in Brazil 10 Jacarandawoodtypes but not all from Jacaranda.
hope this helps :-)
<off to work on my *real* thesis now ;-)>
Chris 'Coz' Costello
>This reminds me of the article from a few years ago of the guy that obsessed
>over finding a ride "just like Tony's". Once the guy played on the genuine
>article in a band context (with Tony's band), he realized it was Tony's touch
>and stick choice that were the larger contributors to the sound character.
That said, Zildjian apparently has a stash of Constantinoples
for endorsers, as apparently a whole lot of them ask for a
ride like Tony's. This came from a friend who recently became
a Zildjian endorser, and asked for one. He likes his, anyway.
Later,
COZ
NP: The Beatles, _The White Album_
--
Chris 'Coz' Costello :: c...@enteract.com
Signal to Noise :: http://www.enteract.com/~coz/
URT :: http://www.urt.net/
"Hipness is transient" -- Vinnie Colaiuta
Ray Ayotte
I wrote to Mr. Bass, a bass guitar maker in Sweden, who has used
Pockenholz in making his basses.
Here is the letter I received.
Ray Ayotte
ayo...@home.com
From: "Mr Bass"
To: <ayo...@home.com>
Subject: Pockenholz also called Lignum vitae
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:42:56 +0100
Hi Ray!
Thank You for Your letter. I will try to help You about your question.
I have used pockenholtz in two of my instruments with very good result.
It´s a very dense and oily material and takes some time and thinking to
work with.
I believe the best for you is to read about the wood and therefore I
recomend you to read "The Encyclopedia of Wood". It will give you
answers about the most you can think of when it comes to wood.
However this is some quick info:
Pockenholz "Guaiacum officinale spp" also Lignum Vitae has a weight of
1200-1300kg/m3 and is one of the heaviest woods in the world if not the
heaviest one of them all. It grows in South America and the trees is
small, slow-growing about 9 m in height and with a diameter of 0.25-0.45
m.
It has a dark greenish-brown or nearly black with a interlocked grain
and a fine, even texture.
Uses:
Though it contains a lot of oil it´s self lubricant and therefore ideal
for marine equipment such as bushing blocks and bearings for ships
propeller shafts but also used for polishing sticks and rollers.
(I helped a friend of mine making a tool for polishing leather in his
buisness of making equipment for horses and other kinds of leatherwork
with very good result)
I leave the rest to you to study, and hopefully I already have given you
some answers if my swenglish is "readibly".
Sincerely
Klas Eldh
Frösön
Sweden
Robert Schuh wrote:
>
> Justin Bailey wrote:
>
> > I know someone out there has heard of Pockenholz wood.
> >
> > The drummer for Meshuggah (Tomas Haake, MR. Poly-rhythmic hemiola drummer) made
> > his snare drum out of pockenholz wood. It is supposedly the hardest wood, and
> > has a green color. But I can't find it anywhere, including wood encyclopedias.
> >
> > There might possibly be another name for it, because Mr. Haake is Swedish.
> >
> > But it sounds AWESOME! The perfect "crack" sound.
> >
> > If anyone has any information, please help! I know I didn't dream this up....
> >
> > Justin Bailey
> > - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > "The road of good intentions is paved with Hell." - Spencer Ante
>
> I was under the impression that the Ironwood that Spirit makes their solid shell
> drums out is the hardest and most dense wood.
>
Jay Epstein
>John Van Ness <dw...@aol.com> had this to say:
>>This reminds me of the article from a few years ago of the guy that obsessed
>>over finding a ride "just like Tony's". Once the guy played on the genuine
>>article in a band context (with Tony's band), he realized it was Tony's touch
>>and stick choice that were the larger contributors to the sound character.
>
>That said, Zildjian apparently has a stash of Constantinoples
>for endorsers, as apparently a whole lot of them ask for a
>ride like Tony's. This came from a friend who recently became
>a Zildjian endorser, and asked for one. He likes his, anyway.
>
>Later,
>COZ
Yes, Coz, Bill Stewart plays a 22 Constantinople 'Prototype' to the
right of his main ride (22 K. Istanbul). You can be sure that it's
MUCH thinner than any K. Con that Zildjian tries to foist on its
plebian customers in the guise of a 'hand hammered', old K.-like
cymbal.
Jay
"One never knows, do one?" - Fats Waller
Justin Bailey
>I wrote to Mr. Bass, a bass guitar maker in Sweden, who has used
>Pockenholz in making his basses.
>Here is the letter I received.
>
>Ray Ayotte
Thanks Mr. Ayotte!!!
If anyone has any experience working with Lignum Vitae, please tell me about
the results, and the process. I shall do more research into this. Thanks!
Justin Bailey
Lignum Vitae (Pockenholz) seems to be the world's hardest wood! I bet trying to
carve or cut it will dull tools (or outright break them) left and right! I have
found a supplier in St. Louis that carries this type of wood if anyone is
interested in making a drum (and sending it to ME! ).
Taken from http://daphne.palomar.edu/wayne/plsept99.htm
There are more than one hundred species of trees and shrubs in the world with
the common name of "ironwood." As their common name suggests, the wood of these
species is very hard and heavy. Depending on their native country, many of
these species have dozens of other descriptive common names. For example, South
American ironwoods are often referred to as "quebracho," which translated means
"axe-breaker." Most of the hardest and heaviest ironwood trees grow in tropical
regions, but there are also many temperate ironwood species, some of which are
planted in southern California and Florida. Some of the showy ornamentals, such
as yellow and pink trumpet trees (Tabebuia serratifolia and T. ipe), are known
as ironwoods in other parts of the world.
......
Since the pure cell wall material (lignin and cellulose)) of wood has a density
of about 1.5 grams per cubic centimeter, even the world's heaviest hardwoods
generally have specific gravities less than 1.5 due to tiny pores (lumens)
within the cell walls. True ironwoods include trees and shrubs with dry,
seasoned woods that actually sink in water, with specific gravities greater
than 1.0. They include lignum vitae (Guaicum officinale, 1.37); quebracho
(Schinopsis balansae, 1.28); pau d'arco (Tabebuia serratifolia, 1.20);
knob-thorn (Acacia pallens, 1.19); desert ironwood (Olneya tesota, 1.15); and
ebony (Diospyros ebenum, 1.12). To appreciate the weight of these hardwoods,
compare them with tropical American balsa (Ochroma pyramidale), one of the
softest and lightest woods with a specific gravity of only 0.17.
Ray Ayotte
"Pockenholz" is smallpox wood in English was an example of how silly
translations can be. But, read this and you will see that Pockenholz was
used for its medicinal properties, hence, "small pox wood" is the
correct translation. Pocken=small pox holz=wood
The description of Ironwood or Lignum Vitae does not show a "pock
marked" wood.
Strange how words 'n translations go...
RayA
the following is an excerpt from
http://daphne.palomar.edu/wayne/wayne.htm
"Any discussion of ironwoods would not be complete without mentioning
the Caribbean tree called lignum vitae (Guaiacum
officinale), one of the world's hardest and most famous woods. A similar
species (G. sanctum) is native to the Florida Keys. Both
species are members of the Caltrop Family (Zygophyllaceae) along with
North and South American creosote bush and the ubiquitous
puncture vine (Tribulus terrestris). The name lignum vitae means "wood
of life," owing to the medicinal properties of the heavy,
resinous wood. During the days of masted sailing ships, the wood and
sweet-smelling resin globs were sought after for treatments and
cures for a variety of human ailments, including gout, syphilis and
rheumatism. Today the resin is still used for expectorants and as a dye
to detect the presence of occult (hidden) blood. Peroxidase enzymes in
the blood cells oxidize chemicals in the resin resulting in a
characteristic blue-green color change. The raw resin, called gum
guaiac, contains about 15 percent vanillin (artificial vanilla),
resulting in
the sweet aroma. The density and high resin content of the wood make it
extremely resistant to friction and abrasion and account for its
remarkable self-lubrication properties. In fact, under certain
conditions the wood wears better than iron. Because of this, the wood
has
been highly valued for pulley sheaves, bearings, casters, food-handling
machinery, and especially for end grain thrust blocks which line
the propeller shafts of steamships. During World War I, attempts were
made to use other ironwoods such as Tabebuia guayacan from
Central America for propeller shaft bearings, but the wood lacked the
oily resin of lignum vitae."
As for making drums with this wood, methinks stave-style construction. I
cannot imagine rotary cut veneers because of small size of tree, and
sliced veneers would work OK for exterior veneering of regular plywood
shell.
Ray Ayotte wrote:
>
> Morgen Ina!
>
> According to The Oxford-Duden German-English dictionary:
> "pocken" = "die pockennarbe" - pockmark; "pockennarben" - pock-marked;
> "pocken" - smallpox
> "die pocke" - pock
>
> and, when I used my trusty translator, German-English "pockenholz" got
> me smallpox wood!!??!!
>
> I have discovered that Pockenholz is used in high-end Swedish furniture.
> I wonder if the Swedes use this word to describe any highly-figured,
> birdseye-type wood, like birdseye maple?
>
> Anyway, the search is still on.
>
> take care,
> Ray
>
> Ina wrote:
> >
> > Ray Ayotte <ayo...@home.com> wrote:
> > > Pockenholz, if German, would mean (literally) pock-marked wood.
> >
>
> > sounds German... I'm German but have never heard that word...
>
> >
> > > "pocken"= pocked, or pock-marked and "holz" = wood.
>
> >
> > if it really *is* a German word than I would imagine it means
> > something like the above mentioned.
> >
Ina
> I wrote to Mr. Bass, a bass guitar maker in Sweden, who has used
> Pockenholz in making his basses.
this is *soooo* funny, I wrote the same guy ;-) he might be wondering
by now why in the world all of a sudden a bunch of drummers is
so extraordinarily interested in this wood... got a smilar answer, too.
nice guy!
Ray Ayotte
I will be in Frankfurt for the Musikmesse in April. I will see him at
his booth and thank him on behalf of the group. (note: the Frankfurt
Musikmesse is like the NAMM show in Los Angeles, but bigger)
So, Ina, have you taken Pockenholz to ward off the dreaded a pox?
take care,
Ray
Justin Bailey
When you see Mr. Bass of Sweden, see if he can carve some shells from Lignum
Vitae for you, then use your expertise of drum building and make the most
perfect snare drum ever!
Ocheltree, eat your heart out! :)
half-jokingly written by-
Ina
> I will be in Frankfurt for the Musikmesse in April. I will see him at
> his booth and thank him on behalf of the group. (note: the Frankfurt
cool! Say "hi" for me, I can't make it to the fair this year (hot'n
exciting hopefully *last* days of my thesis work... *SIGH* OK, I'll
stop whining now) too bad I would have loved to meet some RMMPers
there... well, maybe next year.
> So, Ina, have you taken Pockenholz to ward off the dreaded a pox?
*lol* have to try that "grandmother's recipe" from bavaria which
I dug out on my search ;-) (no pox - just pimples ;-))
Ray Ayotte
I wrote to a friend in Norway who has a lighting and sound company:
From: "Drammen Lyd"
To: "Ray Ayotte" <ayo...@home.com>
Subject: what is Swedish wood "pockenholz"
Hello Ray.
In Norway it`s called "Pokkenholt". Personally I've never heard about
it, but some friends of mine are making guitars and they say it`s
"cheap" Ibenholt. Or "macassar ebony". Sometimes also used as
replacement for so-called "iron-wood". Some also use the name on "pau
ferro". OK?
Hope to see you in Frankfurt.
magnar