Roland TD5 and TD7
Sauron
In article <4a1nf6$n...@duvi.eskom.co.za>, Rhett <sco...@mwp.eskom.co.za> wrote:
> Some observations :
>
> 1. I like the drum samples, but I found the cymbal samples on both kits
> to be appalling, both in sound and variety. Any similar experiences ? I
> realise that I might be stepping on some toes here, my apologies.
I have to agree with you there. I really don't like the cymbal
sounds--primarily because they're too quiet and there's not enough
variety. Where's the mini-china that I need? You can fiddle with the
built in effects a bit, and that can help, but they should've done much
better with the basic sounds.
> 2. The pedal action really takes getting used to. Anybody out there tried
> chaining two of the kick triggers together for a double pedal ?
For me, the pedals work fine. I think there's some kind of double-bass
pedal setup you can get for the TD7, but the standard bass drum trigger
doesn't look big enough to support two beaters.
> 3. I was disappointed with the sensitivity of the pads. I really had to
> slam them. Trying to do delicate stickwork was hellish. Is there some
> sort of sensitivity control that I don't know about ? The dynamics are
> fairly good, but I don't know if they could match those of an acoustic
> drumkit.
You definitely shouldn't have to slam the pads. Perhaps you were using a
demo kit that had seen a lot of abuse or something. Also, you have to be
careful not to touch the pads while the brain is booting, or they won't
calibrate correctly; that can lead to triggering problems and quiet
sounds. There is sensitivity controls for the pads, and the presets vary
greatly in this respect. Some of the preset kits are fairly realistic and
some (like the "Robo" snare) are gonna play the same sound regardless of
how hard you hit the pad. There's no way they could come close to
matching all the subtleties of an acoustic set.
> 4. I have been told that a locknut is essential for the snare attachment
> on the TD5, as it seems to come loose fairly quickly.
I haven't had that problem with the snare, but the "cymbal" mounts (which
suck, in my opinion) have a tendancy to come loose after a long practice.
> 7. Any experiences with mixing one of these two kits with a good set of
> normal acoustic cymbals ?
Not yet. If you do this, be sure to crank the drum volume way up. Also,
I suspect it may be kind of strange to have the drum sounds coming out of
some speakers and the cymbals to be, uh, cymbals. At some point (read:
when I buy a second acoustic kit) I'll be experimenting with ways of
merging the acoustic and electronic sets, but I'm expecting a long period
of refinement before they mesh in a good way.
> 8. The rack is not as robust one might expect, but then again it is not
> really designed to carry a heavy load.
The rack is remarkably flimsy, but like you say it doesn't exactly need to
be heavy duty or anything. I don't like rack mounts anyway, but I found
the TD7 rack to be particularly annoying, since it's hard to position the
pads *just* so. I always find myself compromising on where they go.
> Parting shot : just how durable has anyone found the drumkits to be in
> practice ?
Mine has stood up to almost daily practice for the last nine months. So
far no problems at all, aside from the gripes above. However, I don't
consider my TD7 to be a performance kit; I use it for practicing, and
I'll probably experiment with it in conjunction with MIDI, my computer,
homemade triggers and possibly mixing it with acoustic drums. It's no
replacement for acoustic drums though, in my opinion.
--David
__
/ /\ godzi...@aol.com # The collection of ASCII
/ / \ # characters above is
/ / /\ \ # entirely random. Any
/ / /\ \ \ |\ _,,,---,,_ # resemblance to real
/ /_/__\ \ \ /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ # opinions or ideas
/________\ \ \ |,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-' # is purely
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Rhett
drumkits (complete - basic, extension + rack). I usually play on acoustic
drumkits - mostly Pearl.
Some observations :
1. I like the drum samples, but I found the cymbal samples on both kits
to be appalling, both in sound and variety. Any similar experiences ? I
realise that I might be stepping on some toes here, my apologies.
2. The pedal action really takes getting used to. Anybody out there tried
chaining two of the kick triggers together for a double pedal ?
3. I was disappointed with the sensitivity of the pads. I really had to
slam them. Trying to do delicate stickwork was hellish. Is there some
sort of sensitivity control that I don't know about ? The dynamics are
fairly good, but I don't know if they could match those of an acoustic
drumkit.
4. I have been told that a locknut is essential for the snare attachment
on the TD5, as it seems to come loose fairly quickly.
5. At least ONE more input is really needed on the TD5. I have seen this
comment in a number of magazine reviews and agree wholeheartedly.
6. I slightly preferred the drum sounds from the TD5 percussion module -
it seemed "punchier" than that of the TD7.
7. Any experiences with mixing one of these two kits with a good set of
normal acoustic cymbals ?
8. The rack is not as robust one might expect, but then again it is not
really designed to carry a heavy load.
Parting shot : just how durable has anyone found the drumkits to be in
practice ?
Thanks.
_________________________________________________________________________
Drumming's the life - "Beats Working"
_________________________________________________________________________
7.
Zenon M. Feszczak
Rhett <sco...@mwp.eskom.co.za> writes:
> 1. I like the drum samples, but I found the cymbal samples on both kits
> to be appalling, both in sound and variety. Any similar experiences ?
Perhaps the variety leaves something to be desired, but I found
the cymbal samples to be clean and beautiful.
> 3. I was disappointed with the sensitivity of the pads. I really had to
> slam them. Trying to do delicate stickwork was hellish. Is there some
> sort of sensitivity control that I don't know about ? The dynamics are
> fairly good, but I don't know if they could match those of an acoustic
> drumkit.
>
That was my concern also. So I asked the salesman, and he showed
me the magic threshold adjustment. I turned the trigger threshold
down on the snare, and - voila! - grace notes. He said if one turns
it too far down, you might get false triggering from vibrations
transmitting through the stand. However, I tested this by
turning the snare sensitivity ALL the way down, and banging on the
toms - no false triggering. A metal player might find his mileage
varies.
Anyway, try the kit again and fool around with the settings (just
ask the salesman first, even though they can reset the system to
factory defaults).
> 6. I slightly preferred the drum sounds from the TD5 percussion module -
> it seemed "punchier" than that of the TD7.
>
That's a good question. A few people told me that the TD7 uses the
same
sounds as the TD5 (+ others, of course). But the Roland tech said the
electronics are different between the two kits, though he wasn't sure
if the difference would be audible.
> Parting shot : just how durable has anyone found the drumkits to be in
> practice ?
>
I've heard that these are durable. But then again, I wouldn't buy
ANY piece of electronics (especially with mechanical parts) without
a service contract these days.
Gone are the days when one could expect a piece of equipment to work
trouble-free for 30 years.
If you can get even a high-end VCR to last two years without need
for service, then you had a lucky day at the assembly line.
So, especially if you plan to move these around often to gigs and
such, get some sort of extended warranty.
Cheers,
Zenon M. Feszczak
Drummist Monk
Mark Anenberg
>
> I practice on a TD7, so I can give you my view on it...
>
> In article <4a1nf6$n...@duvi.eskom.co.za>, Rhett <sco...@mwp.eskom.co.za> wrote:
> > Some observations :
> >
>
> > slam them. Trying to do delicate stickwork was hellish. Is there some
> > sort of sensitivity control that I don't know about ? The dynamics are
> > fairly good, but I don't know if they could match those of an acoustic
> > drumkit.
>
> demo kit that had seen a lot of abuse or something. Also, you have to be
> careful not to touch the pads while the brain is booting, or they won't
> calibrate correctly; that can lead to triggering problems and quiet
> sounds. There is sensitivity controls for the pads, and the presets vary
> greatly in this respect. Some of the preset kits are fairly realistic and
> some (like the "Robo" snare) are gonna play the same sound regardless of
> how hard you hit the pad. There's no way they could come close to
> matching all the subtleties of an acoustic set.
>
Having had a TD7 set for a year now and having tried the range of sensitivity
settings, I have come to the conclusion that there is just no way it
will translate the subtleties of an acoustic drum; It depends partly
on your style of druming; but if you're likely me and spent a long time
perfecting a ppp press roll; forget it, it won't pick it up;
I have had some better luck connecting other brands of pads to a TD5
brain;
--
Mark Anenberg , OpenStep Development Team, SunSoft, Inc.
[E,NeXT,Mime]Mail: ma...@velodrome.com, http://www.velodrome.com/
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed above are my own and
in no way represent those of Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Robert Patenaude
>drumkits (complete - basic, extension + rack). I usually play on acoustic
>drumkits - mostly Pearl.
I own a TD-7, and I've had it for about 1 1/2 years now. No reliability
problems, although I have heard (here) that the 1/4" connectors on the pads
tend to go bad. I haven't had that problem myself, but that should be
relatively easy to replace.
I have played and recorded a gig with them, and I was not impressed when
I heard the recording afterwards. Maybe it's just my technique that's not
perfect, but I found the sensitivity of the TD7 pads varied a lot around the
surface of the pad. In other words, if you take a stick and hit the pad
with the same strength repeatedly, the output volume will vary a lot as you
move around the surface of the pad. I found I had to hit within about a 1"
diameter of the center of the pad to get appropriate dynamics. That's a
pretty small target. During the gig, I found I spent most of the time
concentrating on hitting the pads at just the right spot instead of
concentrating on the music. Anybody else had that problem? I set the
threshold at the lowest setting. Still some ghost notes are lost there.
Also, I wish there were more cymbal choices, especially special cymbals, i.e.
non crash and ride.
The hi-hat is fairly impressive, for an electronic one.
Regarding the rack that Roland sells with the kit, here's my recommendation:
don't buy it. I bought a Dixon rack for cheaper than the Roland rack, and
I've had no problems with it. The Dixon rack is made for an acoustic kit,
so holding these light pads is no problem. The Roland rack is basically
crap and expensive for what it is. The bonus if you buy an acoustic rack is
that you can use it to combine your acoustic and electronic kit, which is
something I plan on doing...
To TD7 users out there, what sounds do you use for your kit?
Cheers,
Rob
Steve Gardner
probably use them for practice mostly. Im not seeing the problem with the
pads(or hearing). I dont think the target is that small. Its smaller than
Im used to, but I think its just a matter of adjustment. The biggest
gripe Ive got is the headphone volume. I need more!! I have a Peavey
headphone amp, its not helping either. As far as settings, I like the
reverb setting, the house setting,power setting, the funk
setting....there is quite a few. I havent even had a chance to delve into
the brain yet. The rack does seem pretty flimsey, but it will do just
fine. I bought these new for $1995....a pretty good deal.
Mark Murrell
TD-7 to use in a live situation. I had previously been using a
MIDIk.i.t.i. and an R-5 and purchased the TD-7 as a replacement. I have a
homemade set of pads that fit over my toms and snare which I had been
using successfully for some time. After plugging in the TD-7 and playing
around with it for a while, I discovered several things - there are some
beautiful sounds in this thing; there are some terrible sounds in this
thing; the sensitivity sucks compared to other MIDI interfaces; and the
MIDI response is horrendous.
Now, with over 500 sounds in the thing, I really expected to find some
great sounds and some awful ones, but I was quite surprised by the MIDI
response and the triggering. When I tried the model in the store (with
Roland's pads) the triggering wasn't that bad (hey, it's not a REAL drum,
so I don't expect it to feel like one) but I found when I got it home that
even with the threshold set to '1', it often didn't trigger when I whacked
it. I managed to make the thing usable by adding a second trigger to each
pad, but I would've liked to see something closer to the MIDIk.i.t.i. or
even the old Yamaha brain (which was pretty cool for it's time).
The MIDI response is something that I have not found a solution to. I
had a number of MIDI devices being triggered by my Mac (running Performer
and StudioVision) and every device except the TD-7 played back without
noticeable delays. If I have the Mac doing a click, and have the TD-7,
and say a Proteus and a K-2000 doing straight quarter notes, the TD-7 will
have problems keeping in time. Not every beat will be delayed (that would
be too easy) and not by the same amount, but noticeable delays none the
less. The same thing happens with only the mac and the TD-7, and
regardless of where it gets plugged into the patchbay. This is possibly
the most annoying thing about this machine. Fortunately for me, most all
of my gigs are in bars and the crowd is often too drunk to notice timing
problems coming from sequenced percussion tracks.
The other thing is the outputs - why four instead of six of eight. I
use this thing live for drumset sounds and my sound man HATES having to
mix five or six drums into four outputs. We have it configured as Kick,
Snare, Stereo toms, but individual outs for each tom (and another two for
stereo percussion) would have been great. If they had made the thing a
full rack-space wide, with eight outs, and maybe some real EQ on the
instruments instead of that stupid Nuance/Brightness (aka bad-mids and
highs) I would have gladly paid an extra couple hundred bucks for it.
Having said all that, I still use the thing for rough MIDI sequencing
because I do love some of the sounds.
Comment is invited.
mark
James R. Lendino
mark.m...@erabanner.net (Mark Murrell) wrote:
> Just after it was introduced to the market, I purchased the brain of a
> TD-7 to use in a live situation. I had previously been using a
> MIDIk.i.t.i. and an R-5 and purchased the TD-7 as a replacement. I have a
> homemade set of pads that fit over my toms and snare which I had been
> using successfully for some time. After plugging in the TD-7 and playing
> around with it for a while, I discovered several things - there are some
> beautiful sounds in this thing; there are some terrible sounds in this
> thing; the sensitivity sucks compared to other MIDI interfaces; and the
> MIDI response is horrendous.
> The MIDI response is something that I have not found a solution to. I
> had a number of MIDI devices being triggered by my Mac (running Performer
> and StudioVision) and every device except the TD-7 played back without
> noticeable delays
You have the TD-7 set to the wrong mode. It can be set three
ways:
Standard mode (uses triggers to sound)
Trigger to MIDI
MIDI to sound
You want to set it to MIDI to sound. If you set it this way,
then it will bypass the trigger inputs and only process MIDI from
a sequencer. If you want to play it, then reset it to Standard
mode (or trigger to MIDI if you are using it like a midiKITI to
trigger other sound modules).
The processor is not fast enough to check the trigger inputs and
the MIDI inputs and still get the sound out without a delay. You
have to choose.
Best,
Jamie
MuffinHead
[snorp]
> The other thing is the outputs - why four instead of six of eight. I
>use this thing live for drumset sounds and my sound man HATES having to
>mix five or six drums into four outputs. We have it configured as Kick,
>Snare, Stereo toms, but individual outs for each tom (and another two for
>stereo percussion) would have been great. If they had made the thing a
[...]
> Comment is invited.
:) My 2 cents on this. Drum brains are supposed to have perfectly
sampled sounds, that is, equal (and flat) EQ on all samples. So
theoretically, you plug in a single mono or stereo feed, set it flat or
twiddle a couple knobs, and the sound *should* be perfect.
Now, if some of the samples don't sound good, but the rest do, then the
problem *should* be A) poorly EQ'd samples (and those who know me should
know that I'd just *love* to blame that on Roland;) or B) poor sound
system.
A drum brain (and other such synthetic instruments) *should* be like a
stereo system: You can't - and shouldn't have to - adjust individual
instruments on a given recording. If you do, then the recording is bad or
your stereo sucks.
But that's a perfect world. In my experience, I've *never* needed to
adjust individual samples, other than tweeking the volume. But I guess
large stadiums and coliseums with weird EQ might require a better tweekage
control on each sample. (Like I'll ever find out.:)
MuffinHead
Drummer, Mac geek Armpit Studios VIII
http://www.winternet.com/~muff/ Plymouth, MN
_____________________________________________________________________
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