18x22...or 16x22
Thomas C. Betka
the kick drum (16 vs 18 X 22). I am ordering a Gretsch kit, and they
are traditionally ballsy in terms of the kick. So 18" depth may not be
important here. But I have never played on an 18" deep Gretsch kick. I
*have* played on several 16" deep Gretsch kicks--they were great... In
fact the best sounding kick drum I ever heard was a 16x22 Gretsch
kick.
So--weigh in on the subject if you would. Particularly anyone with
experience on the 18" deep GRETSCH kick. But really anyone with a
double pedal and a deeper kick. Does this extra 2" significantly
reduce response to the double pedal?
Basically, I don't think the extra 2" will be sonically *necessary*
with a Gretsch kick drum, at least from my experience.
Thanks.
TB
nick amoroso
>experience on the 18" deep GRETSCH kick.
i have played quite a few gretsch 18x22 bass drums, and i think they're
absolutely great. those were the bass drums i would set up the most when i
worked at drum doctors, for many different players, in many different studios.
varied styles, from metal to country to funk.
>But really anyone with a
>double pedal and a deeper kick. Does this extra 2" significantly
>reduce response to the double pedal?
absolutely not, in my experience. my main bass drum is a pork pie 18x22.
peace,
:nick:
proud endorser of trueline drumsticks
http://www.trueline.com/endorse/amoroso.html
http://artists2.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/christopher_mills/
http://www.cdbaby.com/soulbelly
-----
JAE 10/9/44 - 6/27/02
b.d.bop
--
--
o-----´ç Mark Polis ç b.d...@suscom.net çª-----o
--
"Thomas C. Betka" <tcb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3d29b175...@news.discover-net.net...
Matt Myers
shouldn't you try to hear it first? I mean, neither is "better", and any
info you get is going to be subject to the opinions of who gave it. The
ridiculous comments I've seen on the OCDP dual Holz and the Remo FS3
kick heads in the last couple days should be enough to convince you of that.
Thomas C. Betka
wrote:
>You already know that I'm recommending the Gretsch 16x22 over the 18x22.
>--
>--
>o-----« Mark Polis b.d...@suscom.net »-----o
>
>--
>
Your vote has been duly noted....THREE TIMES!
Anyway, the decision's already been made--just wanted some more
opinions...
And Mark--thanks for all your help spending my money!! You are VERY
good at it...
TB
b.d.bop
waiting with baited breath.
--
"Thomas C. Betka" <tcb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3d29d572...@news.discover-net.net...
Brian Archer
you could split the difference and have them cut off an inch.
Lyle Caldwell
--
Lyle Caldwell
Psionic Media, Inc.
"Thomas C. Betka" <tcb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3d29b175...@news.discover-net.net...
Thomas C. Betka
wrote:
I don't need to hear it... I have played SEVERAL 16" Gretsch
kicks--they were all great. But it's the grass is always greener
syndrome--always looking for something *better*. It ain't likely to
happen... If I played the 18" deep model, it would only lead me to
procrastinate and delay the order again--I have only been going to
order a kit for the past three years now. And it's difficult to find a
store that has BOTH models that you can a/b side by each.
And to be honest, what does it matter when you come right down to it?
I mean they both sound great--but I wanted to see what others had to
say about it--see other's preference and why they feel that way. Some
might say it's a waste of time as I already made my decision, but it's
certainly better than reading a bunch of flame wars on here! I have
seen a few in the 7 or so years I have been around.
As for the bass drum depth--Pat McDonald actually put it best when I
first met him at a CDB show... I asked him what depth his drums
were--he thought for a second & said something like "what the f*^*^$*&
does that matter..." Then he proceeded to go on stage and absolutely
shred the drums apart with his playing. I guess the bald dude isn't
just another pretty face...
So my original post was only to elicit comments from others because I
like to hear how other drummers think and their opinions on things
like this. I guess it helps me learn and become a better drummer
myself.
And oh, btw...I bought the 16x22
TB
Matt Myers
> And oh, btw...I bought the 16x22
I had the same dilemma and bought the 22x18 (keller). I like them both,
I wish I'd gone with a 17" depth though.
b.d.bop
--
"Lyle Caldwell" <cald...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:UrlW8.76363$N8.83...@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com...
Jim Fleck
have -- at least when it comes to drums, and the sizes and models
thereof. I'm not in close proximity stores which carry much of
anything. So A-B-ing drums is a luxury. And, consequently, the advice
of others on this newsgroup is very helpful -- even if it's just to
narrow down the items I might go out of my way to A-B. But as far as
walking down the street to my local "We Carry Every Drum, Size and
Color on the Planet Emporium" -- fugettabaadit.
I'm in Eugene, and we don't have squat here. A Guitar Center, a
smaller local store, and a buy-and-sell place which now seems to only
carry new Sonor Force 1000 sets (you couldn't force me to buy one of
those). If I go up to Portland, the selection is better, but not what
you might expect. To my knowledge, no one up there stocks Spaun,
top-of-the-line Gretsch, etc.. If anyone has any good recommendations
for that area, please let me know. And although I've only a cursory
knowledge of the Seattle market, that's quite a distance anyway.
BTW -- Anyone know what happened to Horseshoe Music in the Portland
area. They've moved a couple of times since I first started going
there, but now they're not even listed in the phone book. And their
Lake Oswego location is now something else. Did they go belly up?
Anyone know why? They were the best drum shop in the Portland area --
no question. And now -- sniff -- they seem to be gone.
tcb...@hotmail.com (Thomas C. Betka) wrote:
>And it's difficult to find a store that has BOTH models that you can a/b side by each.
>
>TB
Lyle Caldwell
--
Lyle Caldwell
Psionic Media, Inc.
"b.d.bop" <b.d...@suscom.net> wrote in message
news:uijqago...@corp.supernews.com...
jmt
Order both of 'em.
You only live fucking once;
jmt
--
"The world is a bad joke, in very poor taste, created by the
Almighty on a very bad day; I'm inclined to believe he had a hangover
that morning..."
b.d.bop
a tad more punctuated, punchy and articulate?
Why have to adapt, given that the choice is out there?
There's nothing factual to be said here, Lyle. It all comes down to
personal tastes.
--
"Lyle Caldwell" <cald...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:fImW8.77286$N8.83...@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com...
> So adapt. The sound is what matters.
>
> --
> Lyle Caldwell
> Psionic Media, Inc.
>
>
> "b.d.bop" <b.d...@suscom.net> wrote in message
> news:uijqago...@corp.supernews.com...
> > Arguable, but you can't EVER make an 18x22 FEEL like a 16x22.
> > --
> > --
> > o-----« Mark Polis b.d...@suscom.net »-----o
Thomas C. Betka
>Dear Thomaso;
> Order both of 'em.
> You only live fucking once;
> jmt
>
>"Thomas C. Betka" wrote:
>>
You ARE the man.... I haven't heard ONE thing outta your mouth that I
don't seem to agree with...
LMAO... Great idea!
TB
Thomas C. Betka
<barc...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
>I have a 17x22 on my Noble&Cooley kit which works great for me. Maybe
>you could split the difference and have them cut off an inch.
>
>
>
>
That's actually NOT a bad thought--maybe I will order that on my
*next* "last" kit...
TB
Russell Gellman
Hands, down the 16 sounds better. Now, truth be told, the 16 is a newer
model, with rubber isolators between the lugs. But aside from that - they
are identical. With the same heads and same muffling, the 16 has more
punch.
-R
"Thomas C. Betka" <tcb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3d29b175...@news.discover-net.net...
Dan Radin
> So adapt. The sound is what matters.
...spoken like a true engineer. I don't think any musician here will agree
with you.
>
> --
> Lyle Caldwell
> Psionic Media, Inc.
>
>
> "b.d.bop" <b.d...@suscom.net> wrote in message
> news:uijqago...@corp.supernews.com...
> > Arguable, but you can't EVER make an 18x22 FEEL like a 16x22.
> > --
> > --
> > o-----« Mark Polis b.d...@suscom.net »-----o
Mark Polis
The 17" depth is a great size, too - that SonorLite 22x17 is truly awesome.
"Russell Gellman" <russell...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ofqW8.619079$Gs.39...@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
Doug Adair
"Jim Fleck" <jfl...@darkwing.uoregon.edu> wrote in message
news:3d29eb07...@news.uoregon.edu...
> I'm in Eugene, and we don't have squat here. ay.
>
> BTW -- Anyone know what happened to Horseshoe Music in the Portland
> area. They've moved a couple of times since I first started going
> there, but now they're not even listed in the phone book. And their
> Lake Oswego location is now something else. Did they go belly up?
> Anyone know why? They were the best drum shop in the Portland
area --
> no question. And now -- sniff -- they seem to be gone.
Sorry to report that, as of about a year ago, Horseshoe decided to
call it quits. The decision was a tough one (higher rents, more local
price competition and the resultant dumming down of the buying public,
etc.) and coincided with the end of their 3-year LO lease. The real
loss to the Portland drumming community was the depth of knowledge of
Andy Gauthier, Horsehoe's longtime drummeister. Anybody can stock
lots of kits (see Guitar Center), but solving problems (gear choices,
repairs, hard to finds, etc.) was Andy's real forte. Now a simple 30
second item for Andy (e.g., replacing a stripped $0.14 nut in a DW
RIMS mount) takes 3 sales people and 3 months at Gutter Center. Yech!
Doug Adair
Dan Radin
news:ofqW8.619079$Gs.39...@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
> punch.
...which makes perfect sense.Think about how much attack your get out of an
8x12 tom vs. a 12x12. The 12x12 has more size, more body, more fullness,
while the 8x12 is more sensitive, more attack, sharper.
Stuart McConaghy
dra...@rcn.com posted for all the world to see:
> "Lyle Caldwell" <cald...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:fImW8.77286$N8.83...@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com...
>> So adapt. The sound is what matters.
>
> ...spoken like a true engineer. I don't think any musician here will agree
> with you.
>
Since the sound is what really matters I'll throw 15x22 into the discussion.
My favorite larger-than-20"-bass drum size.
Stuart McConaghy
Proud endorser and dealer of Canopus Drums
http://severance.iuma.com
"When the first thing existed, I was there waiting. When the last living
thing dies, my job will be finished. I'll put the chairs on the tables, turn
out the lights, and lock the universe behind me when I leave." - Death
Lyle Caldwell
guitar strings, no matter the pain and physical difficulty, because they
sound better than light strings. I have a high action on my bass for the
same reasons. A good piano has a stiff action as well.
The goal of playing an instrument is to create sounds, not to physically
play the instrument as an end of itself, or to be easy to play. If an 18"
deep kick feels different than a 16" deep kick, and the sound is worth it,
make whatever necessary adjustments and play the damn thing.
--
Lyle Caldwell
Psionic Media, Inc.
"Dan Radin" <dra...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:agdb9j$ij9$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
mhf
<cald...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>I said that as a musician, not as an engineer. I use heavy heavy heavy
>guitar strings, no matter the pain and physical difficulty,
I run 11s on my gitter with a tear drop dunlop which is very thick.
>because they
>sound better than light strings. I have a high action on my bass for the
>same reasons.
Hey I love that fret noise you get when you lower the action. Listen
to old Chris Squire, Geddy Lee, Doug Pinnick or Entwhistle. Those
guys all had their strings very low to the neck to the point of fret
noise. I love the distortion sound you get when this happens. :-)
Mike
Dan Radin
> I said that as a musician, not as an engineer. I use heavy heavy heavy
> guitar strings, no matter the pain and physical difficulty, because they
> sound better than light strings. I have a high action on my bass for the
> same reasons. A good piano has a stiff action as well.
> The goal of playing an instrument is to create sounds, not to physically
> play the instrument as an end of itself, or to be easy to play. If an 18"
> deep kick feels different than a 16" deep kick, and the sound is worth it,
> make whatever necessary adjustments and play the damn thing.
How can you possibly be at your most creative if you're not comfortable
playing your instrument? Obviously, if the kick drum feels a certain way, it
will influence you to play certain things differently than you would given a
different-feeling drum. I know that for me, certain ride cymbals have more
bounce, and certain are very dead feeling. Also, snare with dies cast hoops
have a definitely different feel from those with flanged hoops. I can say
with certainty that I play things differently on different drums.
Tom Betka
I agree with Dan here--I used to have two 16" deep kicks (two separate
sets) and a 14x20 Gretsch kick, which sounded better than the other
two put together to be honest... Anyway, the response of the 14" deep
kick threw me off. I tried everything including ported heads, no front
head, plain resonant head, etc., but it took quite a while to get used
to it. Then when I would switch back and forth, it threw me off,
timing-wise. The response of the 14x20 was quicker, and when playing
fast figures between the hands and feet, my feet would get ahead of my
hands til I got reacclimated to the thing. Admittingly there was the
diameter factor as well, but I always felt the depth to be the
principle factor.
I guess that's why every kick is now the same size for me--other than
the fact that I prefer that sound too.
TB
Matt Myers
> The goal of playing an instrument is to create sounds, not to physically
> play the instrument as an end of itself, or to be easy to play. If an 18"
AMEN.
The point that "the instrument has to be easy to play" is somewhat
valid, but a lot of what brings better sound doesn't really involve
overcoming horrendous physical limitations. 18" depths on kicks are a
great example of this. Heavier strings on guitar or bass or longer scale
bass necks are another. It's not like re-learning how to walk or
anything. You shed with the change for a few weeks (or days) and pretty
soon it's second nature.