Electronic Timpani Question
FS
for our concerts. Purchasing them is not realistic and hauling them
around is a problem. I thought that maybe a compact, lower cost
electronic timpani might be available. I was surprised after a scan
of the web that I cannot find electronic timpani. Perhaps I am not
looking in the right places.
Can anyone give me any further information on electronic timpani, if
they are available, and where we might purchase them.
OC
Most electronic keyboards/.synths have timpani sounds. It's a lame way
to cover the part, but an alternative.
OC
Pete Pemberton
Look at the Roland TD20, or whatever their higher end electronic drums
are. I used some a few years back. Not perfect but better than nothing.
Can't choke unless it's programmed that way, and glissando pitch bends
are difficult. Works for a musical in a pit great.
PP
2sticks
I've used the timpani sound on a TD20 and found it more than adequate.
This would, of course, depend on specific needs. Basic parts could
certainly be covered with a brain and 2-3 pads.
Vince Schaefer
news:ef075e5e-91b8-49c7...@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 10, 12:50 pm, Pete Pemberton <bfpem...@fuse.net> wrote:
>> On 2009-03-10 13:05:40 -0400, FS <sonni...@berkshire.net> said:
>>
>> > We are a small volunteer classical orchestra, and we borrow timpani
>> > for our concerts. Purchasing them is not realistic and hauling them
>> > around is a problem. I thought that maybe a compact, lower cost
>> > electronic timpani might be available. I was surprised after a scan
>> > of the web that I cannot find electronic timpani. Perhaps I am not
>> > looking in the right places.
>>
>> > Can anyone give me any further information on electronic timpani, if
>> > they are available, and where we might purchase them.
>>
>> Look at the Roland TD20, or whatever their higher end electronic drums
>> are.
Yikes! I can't imagine trying to get tymp out a Roland v-drum. But, I'm
not sure you can have all you want no matter how you slice it..But it can be
done!
Check out: Alternate Mode for a couple controller options. (Drumkat 3.8)
You can get a controller that will run any CC. That's short for Continuous
Controllers, which in the world of e-music controls musical nuance, which of
course includes things like pitchbend, and a few others that would benefit
replicating tympani in a natural way. You'd probably end up setting it up
using a sustain pedal. With some programming you could pull off almost
anything a tympani would do. So this is small and only around 1000 to 1500$.
While keeping this short; another thing you'd need would be a sound
source. I don't know what's new and cool in this department, but I use an
old Alesis QSR in my rack, and it has a sister module called the DM-pro
which is more for drums. The thing about these old boxes, is that with a
pcmcia card, and any computer, you can add your own samples. Way less than
samplers cost. Don't know what's out there now . But these are small and
could cost between 500$ and 1000$.
The other big thing is: the PA or amp you use to play through. I've done
this a lot in different situations, and getting them to have presence like
real drums takes power. Without that presence, all you're left with is
attack, and at worst you get buried in the band. If you played
claves....honestly, you could go with a 100 watt amp! Cowbell would rock
like the reaper with 200 watts. If you are performing tympani outdoors, you
will need power. I use Mackie stuff, so I'll explain in those terms. Two of
the SRM450's and an 800 watt sub....minimum! Another sub would be good. So
we're talking about 1700 watts tri-amped system or 2500 watts with the
second sub. Maybe your orchstra has a pa, maybe you'd rent so some company
would be hauling them around. Maybe house pa's where you play?
Anyway, these speakers with their amps are big and heavy. And probably
around 2500$ for the two sats and one sub.
I'll bet those 'Ringers' are starting to look pretty cheap and light,
and easy to carry around. (Aren't they?)
Vince
I did this a couple times in high schools....the thing about that equation
is the PA is a given, and not just used by the tymp guy. So we may have had
5 or 6 drummers and sometimes soloists using the pa. In one situation, we
replaced the 'real' marimba, xylophone, vibes, glock, tympani, bass drums,
gongs, percussion toys and accessories etc/etc.So in that way, we were
replacing 20 or 40,000$ in equipment and obviously lot's of space on the
truck! I'm just saying this, because I want you to know it can be pulled
off!
after saying all that; vibes and tympani are still the hardest to pull
off with e-drums.
strikin...@gmail.com
> "2sticks" <rob.ja...@electriccircuspromotions.com> wrote in message
>
> news:ef075e5e-91b8-49c7...@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Mar 10, 12:50 pm, Pete Pemberton <bfpem...@fuse.net> wrote:
> >> On 2009-03-10 13:05:40 -0400, FS <sonni...@berkshire.net> said:
>
> >> > We are a small volunteer classical orchestra, and we borrow timpani
> >> > for our concerts. Purchasing them is not realistic and hauling them
> >> > around is a problem. I thought that maybe a compact, lower cost
> >> > electronic timpani might be available. I was surprised after a scan
> >> > of the web that I cannot find electronic timpani. Perhaps I am not
> >> > looking in the right places.
>
> >> > Can anyone give me any further information on electronic timpani, if
> >> > they are available, and where we might purchase them.
I'm sorry, this is totally ridiculous. If you can't find timpani or
find it burdensome to carry them around, don't program pieces that
call for them. You wouldn't dare say "we are a small volunteer
classical orchestra and we don't have any violists in our town, so we
are interested in using a synthesizer patch." There are hundreds of
works from the 18th century through to today that do not require
timpani.
-MIKE-
>>> On Mar 10, 12:50 pm, Pete Pemberton <bfpem...@fuse.net> wrote:
>>>> On 2009-03-10 13:05:40 -0400, FS <sonni...@berkshire.net> said:
>>>>> We are a small volunteer classical orchestra, and we borrow timpani
>>>>> for our concerts. Purchasing them is not realistic and hauling them
>>>>> around is a problem. I thought that maybe a compact, lower cost
>>>>> electronic timpani might be available. I was surprised after a scan
>>>>> of the web that I cannot find electronic timpani. Perhaps I am not
>>>>> looking in the right places.
>>>>> Can anyone give me any further information on electronic timpani, if
>>>>> they are available, and where we might purchase them.
>
> I'm sorry, this is totally ridiculous. If you can't find timpani or
> find it burdensome to carry them around, don't program pieces that
> call for them. You wouldn't dare say "we are a small volunteer
> classical orchestra and we don't have any violists in our town, so we
> are interested in using a synthesizer patch." There are hundreds of
> works from the 18th century through to today that do not require
> timpani.
Cool, we're my popcorn?!
We haven't had a good timpani fight in here, since someone got bitch
slapped for writing "timpanis."
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
mi...@mikedrumsDOT.com
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Sean Conolly
news:9c5802e6-985a-4016...@c11g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
This sort of reminds me of a keyboardist friend who spent some time trying
to find the perfect emulator for a Leslie cabinet. Eventually he just bought
a Leslie cabinet and takes it to all his gigs - it was easier than trying to
coax the right sound out of any emulator.
Sean
Vince Schaefer
"Sean Conolly" <sjcono...@yaaho.com> wrote in message
news:KBaul.14809$v8....@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
> <strikin...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:9c5802e6-985a-4016...@c11g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 10, 10:38 pm, "Vince Schaefer" <vin.dr...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> "2sticks" <rob.ja...@electriccircuspromotions.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:ef075e5e-91b8-49c7...@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > On Mar 10, 12:50 pm, Pete Pemberton <bfpem...@fuse.net> wrote:
>> >> On 2009-03-10 13:05:40 -0400, FS <sonni...@berkshire.net> said:
>>
>> >> > We are a small volunteer classical orchestra, and we borrow timpani
>> >> > for our concerts. Purchasing them is not realistic and hauling them
>> >> > around is a problem. I thought that maybe a compact, lower cost
>> >> > electronic timpani might be available. I was surprised after a scan
>> >> > of the web that I cannot find electronic timpani. Perhaps I am not
>> >> > looking in the right places.
>>
>> >> > Can anyone give me any further information on electronic timpani, if
>> >> > they are available, and where we might purchase them.
>
>> I'm sorry, this is totally ridiculous. If you can't find timpani or
>> find it burdensome to carry them around, don't program pieces that
>> call for them. You wouldn't dare say "we are a small volunteer
>> classical orchestra and we don't have any violists in our town, so we
>> are interested in using a synthesizer patch." There are hundreds of
>> works from the 18th century through to today that do not require
>> timpani.
Funny.....Striking Things as a newsgroup name makes you sound all modern
drummer and open to new stuff and opinions...book and it's cover sometimes
match.
If we applied this thinking to everything, we'd still be in the 1700's.
We wouldn't have synths, or the ability to record, and of course no electric
guitar.....hmmmmm maybe that's a good thing?
There are thousands of percussion instruments that have been written
for, costing millions of dollars. To say someone shouldn't play a particular
tune because the 'drummer' doesn't have one of the instruments is ludicrous.
Or worse: to only play tunes written before they started incorporating 'the
striking of things' into the writing, equally not as good. IMVHO
As for the violin player shakeup.....hold on to yer hat buddy cause this
is going to really get you screaming....I saw some theremin players recently
that would tear up any violin book. I'm telling you, not only covering
violin parts, but really making them happen! This isn't the wavey beachboys
theremin we've seen here, but very evolved. (kids starting early and playing
theremin as a main instrument.) You just can't see from your yard.
So, maybe it's okay to use amps and e-guitars, and e-pianos for your
weekend band, but you draw the line if someone uses the word orchestra.
Trust me when I say, you weren't alone when you screamed that e-piano would
never replace a piano....then you cried that e-piano would never replace the
rhoads piano. My first gigs were in the 70's so I heard you. And those are
both very heavy burdensome instruments. To tell you the truth, I can make
kids carry lot's of real heavy stuff around in the sun, but I know in my
heart, I can't get them to move a piano on and off a truck. Once I got them
to move a piano 6 feet, and I'm the one that got into trouble. Some parent
didn't like that idea???? (it was on a piano dolley, but they didn't like
the IDEA of it) Obviously, on a union gig, they have a special team paid for
just that.
But seriously, just because (in these tough economic times) a school or
volunteer org can't afford a truck or bigger truck or second truck to
transport stuff, they shouldn't be allowed/encouraged to make do? And it's
the drummers? that's going to hold the process back? I hope not. I've given
many the opportunity by using available inventions. And We've fooled enough
with our makeshift answer to the problem.
I see you want to draw some lines, but I don't think you've put enough
thought into where these lines in the sand go. Of course, many right here in
this group said a lot of stuff over the past 13 years regarding e-drums.
Kinda like; we love all the innovations DW has developed/invented over the
years but refuse to accept e-inventions even though in the end, to make a
CD, it all gets turned into a big e-sample. (must have old fashioned drums,
cell phone, and ipod to succeed!)
Vince
I've said it many times over the years I've been here: People with
recreational drum questions, shouldn't be berated because they offend YOUR
musical sensibilities. IMDefiant O. I told the dude what to expect without
insulting, and even told him that vibes and tymps are still the hardest to
pull off in the world of e-drums. Did I not do enough? Is it really
important to 'totally ridiculous' this and 'you wouldn't dare' that, stuff
to someone that you don't know, that has a legitimate recreational drumming
question? I guess in this group, it's not only important, but a way of
life.......how many are left in the group now? I'll bet you're the same guy
that punches when he runs out of words. I'm not judging you, I mean I'm that
guy too, except when it comes to music, I don't usually run out of words.
And over the years I've found it's hard to punch through the computer!
Vince Schaefer
> >> > they are available, and where we might purchase them.
I'm sorry, this is totally ridiculous. If you can't find timpani or
find it burdensome to carry them around, don't program pieces that
call for them. You wouldn't dare say "we are a small volunteer
classical orchestra and we don't have any violists in our town, so we
are interested in using a synthesizer patch." There are hundreds of
works from the 18th century through to today that do not require
timpani.
So, you want the guy to go back to his conductor, or business guy or
whatever and tell him/her that using all his musical expertise, and the
internet, the solution he came up with was to simply eliminate the tympani
(his position), and he will go find a new hobby?
As in: maybe model airplanes.....wait; is this dennis? I swore I'd never
get sucked in...but this was sly! I should've seen it coming, g-mail and
unsigned.....duh!
Vince
Chris Milillo
news:j%cul.2685$gm6....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
"Striking Things" is Mell C., a former regular.
CM
Pete Pemberton
> strikin...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Mar 10, 12:50 pm, Pete Pemberton <bfpem...@fuse.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 2009-03-10 13:05:40 -0400, FS <sonni...@berkshire.net> said:
>>>>>> We are a small volunteer classical orchestra, and we borrow timpani
>>>>>> for our concerts. Purchasing them is not realistic and hauling them
>>>>>> around is a problem. I thought that maybe a compact, lower cost
>>>>>> electronic timpani might be available. I was surprised after a scan
>>>>>> of the web that I cannot find electronic timpani. Perhaps I am not
>>>>>> looking in the right places.
>>>>>> Can anyone give me any further information on electronic timpani, if
>>>>>> they are available, and where we might purchase them.
>>
>> I'm sorry, this is totally ridiculous. If you can't find timpani or
>> find it burdensome to carry them around, don't program pieces that
>> call for them. You wouldn't dare say "we are a small volunteer
>> classical orchestra and we don't have any violists in our town, so we
>> are interested in using a synthesizer patch." There are hundreds of
>> works from the 18th century through to today that do not require
>> timpani.
>
> Cool, we're my popcorn?!
> We haven't had a good timpani fight in here, since someone got bitch
> slapped for writing "timpanis."
I like to play the timfanies!
PP
Steve Turner
Especially if they belong to Tiffany!
--
"Our beer goes through thousands of quality Czechs every day."
(From a Shiner Bock billboard I saw in Austin some years ago)
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
-MIKE-
>
> CM
>
Serves him right, the long haired, co-ed chasing, freak. :-p
[I'll find out, over on facebook, if he reads that.]
Vince Schaefer
"Chris Milillo" <dr...@bestweb.net> wrote in message
news:gpbn8s$jvj$1...@news.motzarella.org...
> "Vince Schaefer" <vin....@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:j%cul.2685$gm6....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
>>
>> <strikin...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:9c5802e6-985a-4016...@c11g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
>>> >> > Can anyone give me any further information on electronic timpani,
>>> >> > if
>>> >> > they are available, and where we might purchase them.
>>
>> I'm sorry, this is totally ridiculous. If you can't find timpani or
>> find it burdensome to carry them around, don't program pieces that
>> call for them. You wouldn't dare say "we are a small volunteer
>> classical orchestra and we don't have any violists in our town, so we
>> are interested in using a synthesizer patch." There are hundreds of
>> works from the 18th century through to today that do not require
>> timpani.
>>
>> So, you want the guy to go back to his conductor, or business guy or
>> whatever and tell him/her that using all his musical expertise, and the
>> internet, the solution he came up with was to simply eliminate the
>> tympani (his position), and he will go find a new hobby?
>
> "Striking Things" is Mell C., a former regular.
I'll say oops! out of respect to Mell, but then reiterate to this former
regular that this is recreational drums newsgroup and we can't let someone
upset our musical sensibilities, with a legitimate question. People come
through here all the time asking the stupidest questions about drum set and
most people calmly tell them how stupid they are. And how they should be
thinking. For years people were ignorantly sent to the FAQ with simple
questions (sort of defeating the whole newsgroup idea). I think it wrong to
jump the way he did. If that behavior is permitted, there will be fewer and
fewer drummers on the planet. While that might be an altruistic goal for the
professional drumgod newsgroup, I'm not sure how it fits here, and as I said
it's contradictory, considering some of the beginners and their questions
that are treated in a more fatherly way. I just don't think this newsgroup
is supposed to be telling people to stop drumming. The director or whatever
for this volunteer organization sent his tympani player out on a mission for
information, he can't find it anywhere and he tries here......and somebody
tells him to quit the band? Oh boy! I know this has been normal behavior
since I've been here, but it's not helping. (again no disrespect meant to
Mell) This guy might be an educated musician (not that it matters) but to
tell him to go back to his director to tell him to just change the direction
he wants to go, and go without him, is wild. (I can see the guy sitting
there at night.......I Don't Get Paid Enough For this. Oh yeah I
don't get paid!!!!) And in the end, I told him the same thing as
Mel....just, I gave the information he needed to take back to the guy making
the decisions....who knows; with that info, maybe they find the money in the
budget to buy this guy some new drums. And I think in my heart, if that
happens Mell is happy!
I taught a high school drumline one year, that had no pit equipment. The
former teacher was a music store guy and had loaned or rented or something
in the past, so they had nothing. With only 10,000$ in my hand, and having
only a van to transport stuff, the only way those ten kids got to
participate was by going electric. This is at a time when many schools wish
to spend 0$ on music. Music and band are being cut from curriculums.
Sometimes just 8th grade, sometimes the whole thing! The last school I
worked was lucky to get 2 or 3000$ a year for new equipment. In a school
like that, everybody with little horns is expected to own, so the director
basically gets one instrument a year. One tuba this year, one marimba next
year. Try to buy a truck every ten years. Without boosters this would be way
more obvious to everyone, because in most cases they try to take the slack..
My point is: yes some schools have plenty of money, but there's lot's that
simply can't spend 50,000$ to 100,000$ on drums for ten people....anymore.
And not just schools.....
Vince
FS
It is clear that decent electronic drums are not cheap and perhaps
not a "quick fix" for my problem. I build harpsichords and violins, so
the procurement of drums are somewhat enigmatic for me. I did play
snare drum in the high school band 40 years back and I must say the
the humor and zest associated with the percussion (and trumpet)
players seems to be alive and well in some of these posts.
First of all as a traditional instrument builder I will agree that
the presentation of music with authentic instruments is a cultural
goal that is to be commended. However those of us that purvey
classical music, especially at a semi-professional or amateur level
are confronted with countless financial, membership, and skill
problems and if we did not concede to realities at times we could
never keep the cause limping along. I will even admit to bringing an
electronic harpsichord to rehearsals on exceptionally rainy, humid
days when transport of the real goods would be detrimental to the
instrument.
I just received a note from a local supporter in the school system
- they have a pair of timpani that are sorely in need of repair that
might be loaned for our cause. If all goes well, I will be spending my
weekend in the machine shop-
Thank You All Again,
Fritz
Steve Turner
Wow Fritz; let me just say that if I didn't have four daughters and and
a certain standard of living to maintain that I'd *love* to be doing
what you're doing. (I'm assuming of course that as an instrument maker
I'd be unable to maintain my current standard of living ; maybe I'm
wrong...) I have great respect for craftsmen such as yourself who are
committed to keeping such traditions alive.
strikin...@gmail.com
It's my opinion that if you don't have the timpani for AN
ORCHESTRA, don't play pieces that require them.
Yes, theremins are nice (I prefer the ondes martenot myself) but
one would never propose using them as a replacement for missing 2nd
violins in AN ORCHESTRA, even if it was Clara Rockmore playing it. If
you're running some kind of cool ensemble that integrates electronics
or is a rock band or something, the theremin is a great thing. (A
late friend of mine used to play keys/theremin with Cobra Verde.)
We're talking about a regular community symphony orchestra here. I
have a MalletKAT, but I wouldn't use them as a replacement in one of
my regular orchestra gigs. The Broadway gigs that have had
electronics always had 'real' timpani, because the sampled timpani
sounds suck harder than any bad timpanist, and these are national
Broadway tours that spend tons of money on fine sampler gear. I
spent several years in community bands/orchestras and have seen the
sampler/synth options fail every time.
It may sound harsh, but timpani samples aren't a suitable
replacement in an orchestra, regardless of the level, and if the
orchestra wants timpani desperately enough, it will go about finding
some solution that includes actual timpani. As to the piano comment,
sorry but no one is going to play the Rachmaninov 3rd Concerto on a
Fender Rhodes, well unless they're Keith Emerson, and then their in a
rock band (Keith used a real grand piano with his Piano Concerto.)
As we see below, it looks like a wonderful possible solution may have
found it's way to Fritz, and I'm very pleased. I have a beater pair
that are in desperate need of repair, and I would actually offer them
to you if you were within driving radius of Cleveland.