Pandeiro!
Steve Vallee
cannot put the thing down.
For those not familiar with it-- it is a Brasilian frame drum similar to a
tambourine but the "jingles" aren't as loud, often described as a 'drier'
sound. It's played as a frame drum, with the jingles to accent the strokes.
After awhile you can't help but play samba with the right swing because of
the way the thumb-toe-heel-toe-thumb seems to naturally induce the groove.
This might not make sense until you actually try it. And as you learn to go
faster, you'll get more addicted!
Have fun!
Steve
--
Posted from out4.prserv.net [32.97.166.34] (may be forged)
via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Nazodesu
<sva...@ihpc.net> wrote:
> Are there any other pandeiro players here? I recently bought one and just
> cannot put the thing down.
Yeah, I've got a couple and love them. But man it is tough on the
wrists. First order of business--get the lightest drum possible. A
feather weight!
> For those not familiar with it-- it is a Brasilian frame drum similar to a
> tambourine but the "jingles" aren't as loud, often described as a 'drier'
> sound. It's played as a frame drum, with the jingles to accent the strokes.
> After awhile you can't help but play samba with the right swing because of
> the way the thumb-toe-heel-toe-thumb seems to naturally induce the groove.
> This might not make sense until you actually try it. And as you learn to go
> faster, you'll get more addicted!
What kind do you have? And what music are you playing it with?
--
The storm starts when the drops start dropping. When the drops stop dropping
the storm starts stopping.
Steve Vallee
after a few minutes. I'm hoping regular practice will build up my hand/arm
strength and greater stamina.
I have a Brasilian 12" RMV, which has a metal frame and synthetic head. At
the shop where I bought it there was an LP and some Remo's -- I couldn't
notice much weight difference, but I think the LP was even heavier with its
thick plywood frame--it sounded the best though. Contemporanea is one I
haven't tried yet. What do you have?
I'm playing with a samba enredo compilation CD or just a metronome, but
aspiring to reach the 126 bpm pandeiro on Batucada Especial Futebol. I can
play solid w/slaps at 92 bpm. any faster and it starts to fall apart.
Robert E Beatty Jr.
news:000b01c0df37$f0958520$bd1e400c@vectravl400mt...
I've got a remo pandeiro.The first time I played it I was pretty fast and
haven't been able to repeat that since, and you've got to really fly on that
puppy to keep up with a samba. Reminds me of when we're learning a new
rhythm and everybody's smiling and sweating because we think we've got it,
and the lead drummer says that's pretty good but now we'll play it at the
right tempo.
--
******************************************
Bright Moments,
Robert E Beatty Jr.
Robert...@worldnet.att.net
******************************************
Robert E Beatty Jr.
> I've got a remo pandeiro.The first time I played it I was pretty fast and
> haven't been able to repeat that since, and you've got to really fly on
that
> puppy to keep up with a samba. Reminds me of when we're learning a new
> rhythm and everybody's smiling and sweating because we think we've got it,
> and the lead drummer says that's pretty good but now we'll play it at the
> right tempo.
>
> --
>
> ******************************************
> Bright Moments,
> Robert E Beatty Jr.
> Robert...@worldnet.att.net
> ******************************************
Ooops, It' actually an LP.
Robert E Beatty Jr.
> I'm playing with a samba enredo compilation CD or just a metronome, but
> aspiring to reach the 126 bpm pandeiro on Batucada Especial Futebol. I
can
> play solid w/slaps at 92 bpm. any faster and it starts to fall apart.
Metronomes, what wonderful devices. I need to get a new one, quartz this
time cause my mechanical and electro-mechanical ones don't keep such good
time now that they've been jarred in transport a million times.
So who here uses them and who doesn't. What do you have.
Susan Howlett Daugherty
"Robert E Beatty Jr." wrote:
>
> "Steve Vallee" <sva...@ihpc.net> wrote in message
> news:000701c0df51$cddf91a0$0b48400c@vectravl400mt...
> > I'm playing with a samba enredo compilation CD or just a metronome, but
> > aspiring to reach the 126 bpm pandeiro on Batucada Especial Futebol. I
> can
> > play solid w/slaps at 92 bpm. any faster and it starts to fall apart.
>
> Metronomes, what wonderful devices. I need to get a new one, quartz this
> time cause my mechanical and electro-mechanical ones don't keep such good
> time now that they've been jarred in transport a million times.
>
> So who here uses them and who doesn't. What do you have.
> --
I use a cheapo quartz one that has both a click and a flashing light,
each usable separately or together. This is a boon, since the sound of a
metronome disappears if you are in time with it, so the visual cue is
useful, mine has an earphone jack but I haven't ever tried with with
earphones. I wish I had an old-fashioned mechanical one, the kind with
a weight on a wand that went tic-toc. That gives you more visual info,
like when you are half way between beats or almost to the beat.
what I would like is something with a programmable feature that would
give me x measures at 80 ppm followed by y measures at 120 ppm followed
by z measures at 200 ppm or something like that. I hate having to stop,
pick up the thing, adjust the tempo, and go back and try to get up to
the higher speed. Does anybody make a metronome gadget that can be
adjusted with, say, a foot pedal? If not, one of you mad inventors out
there please get busy! I want one like a sewing machine foot pedal,
with an up-down switch on one side (like the forward-reverse switch on a
sewing machine pedal) and a simple pressure pad on the other. i bet an
old sewing machine foot pedal could be adapted. I also want a readout,
digital, maybe projected, and if projected, you could project a
representation of the pulse, also, as above. OK?
Susan
Robert E Beatty Jr.
news:3B05550F...@howlett.ca...
>
>
> "Robert E Beatty Jr." wrote:
> >
> >
> > Metronomes, what wonderful devices. I need to get a new one, quartz this
> > time cause my mechanical and electro-mechanical ones don't keep such
good
> > time now that they've been jarred in transport a million times.
> >
> > So who here uses them and who doesn't. What do you have.
> > --
>
> I use a cheapo quartz one that has both a click and a flashing light,
> each usable separately or together. This is a boon, since the sound of a
> metronome disappears if you are in time with it, so the visual cue is
> useful, mine has an earphone jack but I haven't ever tried with with
> earphones. I wish I had an old-fashioned mechanical one, the kind with
> a weight on a wand that went tic-toc. That gives you more visual info,
> like when you are half way between beats or almost to the beat.
They have some electronic models that have an arc of light that replicates
the pendulum swing. The mechanical ones have to be treated with care or they
wont keep time, as I've found out.
> what I would like is something with a programmable feature that would
> give me x measures at 80 ppm followed by y measures at 120 ppm followed
> by z measures at 200 ppm or something like that. I hate having to stop,
> pick up the thing, adjust the tempo, and go back and try to get up to
> the higher speed. Does anybody make a metronome gadget that can be
> adjusted with, say, a foot pedal? If not, one of you mad inventors out
> there please get busy! I want one like a sewing machine foot pedal,
> with an up-down switch on one side (like the forward-reverse switch on a
> sewing machine pedal) and a simple pressure pad on the other. i bet an
> old sewing machine foot pedal could be adapted. I also want a readout,
> digital, maybe projected, and if projected, you could project a
> representation of the pulse, also, as above. OK?
>
> Susan
Tama Rhythm watch and Roland's Doctor Beat DB 66 & 88 will do some of those
things, but they don't come cheap. I had an old drum machine but it was such
a pain to program. I am even thinking about getting slightly newer used
machine, that way I could program clave and bell parts into it. Find
something that's new enough to have real time programming but doesn't have
the latest and greatest hit sounds on it. Probably wouldn't have any visual
beat indicators though.
Nazodesu
<sva...@ihpc.net> wrote:
> You're not kidding about the weight. Just holding it up can get very tiring
> after a few minutes. I'm hoping regular practice will build up my hand/arm
> strength and greater stamina.
Good luck!
> I have a Brasilian 12" RMV, which has a metal frame and synthetic head. At
> the shop where I bought it there was an LP and some Remo's -- I couldn't
> notice much weight difference, but I think the LP was even heavier with its
> thick plywood frame--it sounded the best though. Contemporanea is one I
> haven't tried yet. What do you have?
I have a friend who made a quest of finding the best pandeiro, and his
take-away was Contemporanea. He says it sounds fantastic, but frankly
I think he has problems with the weight anyway.
I have a Gope 10", a "Mid East Mfg - Pakistan" goat-skin 3" (WAAAY too
heavy to play right, but sounds excellent), and a PR Percussion 8".
Their all useless for different reasons. The Gope is poorly made and I
had to take it apart and file down the cymbal-pin which was coming up
through the rim into the head. I took the lugs off and one wouldn't go
back on. I spaced the others as best I could. The PR has really
crummy quazi-wood rim that bent itself out of shape by being tuned
appriately for too long. And the Paki is too damn heavy.
I should throw all of them away, cause then I'd go get a decent paneiro
I could play! And these days I love the riq, but it's just too jingly
to pull off decent samba with.
At this point I think I'm inclined to get an 8-inch because of the
realities of playing something heavier. I saw a remo 12-inch that,
compared to others in the shop was much lighter. It had a silly black
pyschedelic head if memory serves.
> I'm playing with a samba enredo compilation CD or just a metronome, but
> aspiring to reach the 126 bpm pandeiro on Batucada Especial Futebol. I can
> play solid w/slaps at 92 bpm. any faster and it starts to fall apart.
Might I suggest the following artists if you're not wise. I always get
excited and have to shlep my surdinho out of the closet when I put them
on. Great small-group samba:
Marinho da Vila (every side he's ever cut!), Grupo Fundo de Quintal
(ditto!), Wilson Moreira and Nei Lopes. I love most everything I've
heard by Monarco, and Nelson Sargento, but they are slightly more
old-school. Remarkable nonetheless. And of course if you don't have
the two albums named "Cartola" by the grand old man himself, they are
critical sides, though not as hot-and-heavy. But for working your way
up from 92 mm they might just be the ticket.
Nazodesu
Robert E Beatty Jr. <Robert...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Reminds me of when we're learning a new rhythm and everybody's
> smiling and sweating because we think we've got it, and the lead
> drummer says that's pretty good but now we'll play it at the right
> tempo.
Similarly after a breathless pass at a new tune, "Very funny, now let's
get serious..." Gulp!
Nazodesu
<su...@howlett.ca> wrote:
> "Robert E Beatty Jr." wrote:
> >
> > Metronomes, what wonderful devices. I need to get a new one, quartz
> > this time cause my mechanical and electro-mechanical ones don't
> > keep such good time now that they've been jarred in transport a
> > million times.
I prefer these same ones--the busted ones. It helps prepare me to work
with the average players.
> I use a cheapo quartz one that has both a click and a flashing light,
> each usable separately or together. This is a boon, since the sound
> of a metronome disappears if you are in time with it, so the visual
> cue is useful, mine has an earphone jack but I haven't ever tried
> with with earphones. I wish I had an old-fashioned mechanical one,
> the kind with a weight on a wand that went tic-toc. That gives you
> more visual info, like when you are half way between beats or almost
> to the beat.
Same here. I use a Seiko SQM-300. Very cheap. I've had it forever.
It has light and audio, or light only. It also has a built in A440
generator. No head-phone jack.
I found it too loud for use with guitar and so duct-taped the speaker.
Then I started using it with the timales and had to take the tape off
and wear it around my neck.
> what I would like is something with a programmable feature that would
> give me x measures at 80 ppm followed by y measures at 120 ppm
> followed by z measures at 200 ppm or something like that.
That's what computers and midi are for. The reality is that I rarely
use the metronome much, except with the timbales because they are at
the opposite end of the studio from my computer. Otherwise I use
Band-in-a-Box or more frequently patterns I rapidly modify for my use
with Studio Vision Pro, but could be done with any decent modern
sequencer. It is another interim delay between a player and playing
though, which is a nuisance.
I did some click-programming seqs with Vision in order to help
replicate some of the really difficult (for me) excercise from "Ancient
Traditions - Future Possibilities" book. These would be like 3 against
7, 4 against 5, 4 against 7. Hearing them played back helped a lot.
> I hate having to stop, pick up the thing, adjust the tempo, and go
> back and try to get up to the higher speed. Does anybody make a
> metronome gadget that can be adjusted with, say, a foot pedal?
Yeah, as mentioned upstream it's called the Gajete pedal. You hook it
up to a cowbell or wood block and SWEAT!
Nazodesu
<22...@home.com.nospam> wrote:
> I have a Gope 10", a "Mid East Mfg - Pakistan" goat-skin 3" (WAAAY too
> heavy to play right, but sounds excellent), and a PR Percussion 8".
That should be a 13" Pakistani drum. I would like to know what the
Pakistani's call these things, since it's clearly not "pandeiro."
Benjamin Jacoby
> Metronomes, what wonderful devices. I need to get a new one, quartz this
> time cause my mechanical and electro-mechanical ones don't keep such good
> time now that they've been jarred in transport a million times.
> So who here uses them and who doesn't. What do you have.
I use the Tama rhythm watch the most. love the extra features. For
practice I program in ascending speeds, 60, 70, 80, 90, etc. then each
day you just start out and keep bumping up the program button.
My pet peeve with it is that it eats 9v batteries if you forget to
turn it off.
For just plain old everyday, I like my Franz electro-mechanical.
Nice and easy. Hasn't been carted around, so it's still fine.
I've also got a wind-up pendulum type that's small and portable.
It's kind of antique, but I like it because you can just pitch
it in a drum bag and never need to worry about dead batteries.
I suppose I really should get one of those miniature electronic
japanese things. But haven't yet.
An old cheapo drum machine would be a nice addition too. But as
someone noted the old ones (which unfortunately are also the cheap
ones) are often a nightmare to program.
ObPandeiro: I practiced with the local samba school for a while.
I played agogo bells since it didn't take much learning for me.
But I was facinated with the Pandeiro players. One of these
days I think I'll go back and see if I can learn how to play
one. (I've got much more hand-drumming under my belt now than then).
Benj
--
SPAM-GUARD! Remove "user.", if present, from address to email me.
Robert E Beatty Jr.
news:9e486p$i4t$1...@news.netwalk.net...
>
> I use the Tama rhythm watch the most. love the extra features. For
> practice I program in ascending speeds, 60, 70, 80, 90, etc. then each
> day you just start out and keep bumping up the program button.
> My pet peeve with it is that it eats 9v batteries if you forget to
> turn it off.
I'm leaning towards the Rythm Watch or the Boss Doctor Beat DB 88, mainly
for the programability, the foot switchability, and they should be loud
enough on their own. They both have flashing lights too. Of course I am
waiting to find one for the right price. With a little ingenuity you can rig
an AC adaptor from Radio Shack parts for a lot less than the OEM model.
> For just plain old everyday, I like my Franz electro-mechanical.
> Nice and easy. Hasn't been carted around, so it's still fine.
I swear that my Franz is wavering, altough sometimes I think it's all in my
head.
> I've also got a wind-up pendulum type that's small and portable.
> It's kind of antique, but I like it because you can just pitch
> it in a drum bag and never need to worry about dead batteries.
>
> I suppose I really should get one of those miniature electronic
> japanese things. But haven't yet.
>
> An old cheapo drum machine would be a nice addition too. But as
> someone noted the old ones (which unfortunately are also the cheap
> ones) are often a nightmare to program.
Yeah, the ones that you have to enter things with some kind of archaic step
time, but the newer and easier to program models are starting to come down
in price. I've kind of decided against the drum machine idea because I don't
want to have to provide a seperate amp, or fry my ears with headphones.
> ObPandeiro: I practiced with the local samba school for a while.
> I played agogo bells since it didn't take much learning for me.
> But I was facinated with the Pandeiro players. One of these
> days I think I'll go back and see if I can learn how to play
> one. (I've got much more hand-drumming under my belt now than then).
>
> Benj
> --
> SPAM-GUARD! Remove "user.", if present, from address to email me.
I wouldn't rave about it but I'm pretty happy with my LP pandeiro. Funny
that some people who have been to Brazil have said that Brazilians would
gladly trade their authentic panideros for one your mass produced ones.
Don't make me call you all girlie men (or girlie girls?) for whining "my
pandiero is to heavy" :-0
--
******************************************
Bright Moments,
Robert E Beatty Jr.
Robert...@worldnet.att.net
******************************************
Ray Shakeshaft
of them a single instrument would get 'lost' in a bateria. We have about
twenty people in our band and there is no way that you would hear a single
pandeiro over that lot unless you cut back the volume deliberately to
feature it.
I can understand their use in a pagode and I believe many folk and acoustic
groups might like to experiment with them because with practice they can put
out a pretty good drum and hi hat sound. Having spent a number of years
playing folk clubs I wish I had discovered them earlier.
Any thoughts?
"Steve Vallee" <sva...@ihpc.net> wrote in message
news:000701c0df51$cddf91a0$0b48400c@vectravl400mt...
Nazodesu
<ray.sha...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> The pandeiro makes a great sound but I suspect that unless you have a number
> of them a single instrument would get 'lost' in a bateria. We have about
> twenty people in our band and there is no way that you would hear a single
> pandeiro over that lot unless you cut back the volume deliberately to
> feature it.
>
> I can understand their use in a pagode and I believe many folk and acoustic
> groups might like to experiment with them because with practice they can put
> out a pretty good drum and hi hat sound. Having spent a number of years
> playing folk clubs I wish I had discovered them earlier.
>
> Any thoughts?
I totally concur. The best use in samba is the usual base
instrumentation: cavaquinho, surdo and pandeiro. And singers of course.
A bandolim or flute is nice but unnecessary.
But you're right about it's practical use in folk/accoustic pop music.
It use to be whenever anybody showed up with a tamborine I started
folding my tent. Honestly. They were so horrible and so loud.
Usually skinless. But a good panderio would be great accompaniment
these days.
At a patio party with a bunch of guitarists, and no percussion, the
rhythm was so limp and mushy that I turned my guitar over and played
quazi-bongos on it (again!). I wished I'd brought my bongos. But for
the style of music that was going on, I think the pandeiro would have
fit much better. And I could have at least gotten them into a straight
line if not marching in time.
Ray Shakeshaft
etc part in Henry's Percussion Studio at a pace that suits me and record it
to a cheap CDR. I then have all the advantages of a metronome and it sounds
slightly more in keeping with a live performance. I usually record the
grooves to run for five minutes at three different speeds finishing up on
the correct one.
Robert E Beatty Jr. <Robert...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:9leN6.28831$4f7.2...@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Robert E Beatty Jr.
news:WLhO6.5842$eJ4.8...@news1.cableinet.net...
> I have found that for practicing timba I can create the marcacao,contrador
> etc part in Henry's Percussion Studio at a pace that suits me and record
it
> to a cheap CDR. I then have all the advantages of a metronome and it
sounds
> slightly more in keeping with a live performance. I usually record the
> grooves to run for five minutes at three different speeds finishing up on
> the correct one.
>
I am guessing that you don't mean Las Van Van, Bambeleo, and Charanga
Habenera, when you say timba. From son, to songo, to timba, that is. So what
is the timba of which you speak? Is it a particular drum?
PS sounds good for that type of practice. I've threatened to record parts on
my old cassette format, 4 track for that purpose, never seem to get around
to it. I am still thinking about the Rhythm watch or Dr. Beat for practicing
individual techniques or exercises.
Nazodesu
<pylO6.35220$t12.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, Robert E
Beatty Jr. <Robert...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > I have found that for practicing timba I can create the
> > marcacao,contrador etc part in Henry's Percussion Studio at a pace
> > that suits me and record it to a cheap CDR. I then have all the
> > advantages of a metronome and it sounds slightly more in keeping
> > with a live performance. I usually record the grooves to run for
> > five minutes at three different speeds finishing up on the correct
> > one.
> I am guessing that you don't mean Las Van Van, Bambeleo, and Charanga
> Habenera, when you say timba. From son, to songo, to timba, that is.
> So what is the timba of which you speak? Is it a particular drum?
I pondered that my self, and assumed it was timba a la Timbalada and
company.
Ray Shakeshaft
particular. The head is about 14" across and the shell is conical in shape.
They were made popular by the Bahian baterias but the use is now growing.
Ray.
Robert E Beatty Jr. <Robert...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:pylO6.35220$t12.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Robert E Beatty Jr.
Robert E Beatty Jr.
> A timba is a hand drum used in Brazilian music and samba baterias in
> particular. The head is about 14" across and the shell is conical in
shape.
> They were made popular by the Bahian baterias but the use is now growing.
>
> Ray.
>
Aha, I saw Oludum playing one of these a few years back. The shell
construction was like a drum kit shell, and the head was like a drum kit as
well. At least that's what it looked like from my vantage point. I've seen a
lot of what have been called congas on eBay made by trap drum manufacturers
like Ludwig etc. that look similar, Are these the same, am I on the right
track?
Which reminds me, when I saw Oludum at the Lotus Festival in Bloomington,
IN, Grupo AfroCuba de Matanzas was in town and the two groups got together
for a SambaReggaeBataRumba. It was completely insane, tore the top of my
head off.
Ray Shakeshaft
that have pictures of timba in their catalogues. You might try our band web
site www.geocities/someone_at_the_door and on the links page you will see a
reference to One Voice Music or OVM. There is a picture in their catalogue
and it is the actual make that I play, Bauer, which I believe is about the
best one around. I think that on our web site I also appear on some of the
pictures of the band playing timba.
When I first joined a samba band I was already playing bongos so after
wrestling with the intricacies of playing with sticks for a year I
eventually reverted to hand drumming and the timba.
The technique has much in common with djembe playing etc. and a few UK samba
bands do actually use djembes but the actual sound of a timba is far crisper
than the African drum. I am told that some of the Brazilian guys use one
stick and a hand as well as the two handed method. If anyone has any info
on this way of playing I would be interested to hear from them. Timba
invariably have plastic heads which are useful in a changing climate.
Gope make timbas but it seems that the favourite in the UK is the Bauer.
You saw Olodum! - I am filled with envy. :-)
Ray.
Robert E Beatty Jr. <Robert...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:FztO6.35680$t12.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Ray Shakeshaft
The sound of a well played pandeiro is light years away from that associated
with the normal tambourine playing. I spent years in folk groups wanting
some kind of percussion that did not drowned out us string players and I did
not know about pandeiros at the time.
I must agree with others about the pressure on the wrist though. I pressume
that in Brazil they are either made of sterner stuff than we gringos or they
just use the pandeiro for relatively short periods. Again it seems that
Contemporanea is the favourite here but we have a samba player down in
London who goes out to Brazil and imports the real Brazilian instruments
made in the small workshops. She is now selling pandeiros and if her
instrument is as good as the other stuff from her that I have seen then then
she would be a good source of professional grade instruments. Giselle's web
site is http://TDSounds.safeshopper.com and whilst I have no commercial
connection with her our band has bought caixa, repenique and tamborims from
her and they excellent and the prices compare favourably with the usual
brands.
Ray.
Nazodesu <22...@home.com.nospam> wrote in message
news:210520011626369007%22...@home.com.nospam...
Nazodesu
<ray.sha...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> You saw Olodum! - I am filled with envy.
I saw them in the Pelourinho in Salvador da Bahia on Brazil's
Independence Day. I would say they were "smoking" or some such, but the
descriptors for occasions like this become useless. Suffice to say it
was a truly memorable evening.