Most versatile Djembe,conga or doumbek??
Tracer
applications,varying music styles?
Thanks
bja...@iwaynet.net
> In article <jjfsb.23388$8s3....@newssvr32.news.prodigy.com>,
> "Tracer" <tra...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>> Which drum/style offers the most versatility in terms of wide
>> applications,varying music styles?
Jeez. Why don't you just come out and ask which hand-drum is "best"?
The answer to your question is "Framedrum".
> I'm a doumbek and tar (frame drum) player myself, but the drum I see
> most often at drum circles (for what THAT's worth) is djembes, often
> strapped around the player's waist so they can stand and dance around a
> bit while they play. Loud driving rhythms in the bass, but with lots of
> variety in the higher pitched accents. They seem pretty versatile to me.
Djembes work well for African rhythms and because they are very loud
can also work well with Rock. They are dancing drums. (Usually
women use a strap around the waist (hips etc.) and men use a
shoulder strap arrangement) They are fairly versatile, but
still are a bit loud, odd sounding and harsh for many music styles.
> In drum circles, I like my doumbek for filling in holes, playing with
> little cross rhythms, weaving in and out of rhythms others are playing.
> Playing high, sharp notes - nails, slaps, pops, grabs - no one else can
> hit. But I think of the doumbek as more of a specialty drum. If you
> aren't playing for belly dancing (which is what I do mostly) or similar
> music, I'm not sure I'd see much of a point in having a doumbek.
Yes. A doumbek tends to be a drum you play like a bell! It's high
pitched and you fill holes with it.
> My impression is that congas are damn big and heavy, even compared to
> djembes. Usually played on a stand - yet another thing to schlep to a
> gig. And aren't you supposed to loosen the head on congas after each
> time you play? A tuning key - another thing to schlep (and lose).
Yes, Congas are big and heavy. One usually doesn't dance with a
conga (though it HAS been done! :) Traditionally congas are
played seated. In rock bands and the like, they are on stands
so the percusionist can move around and play other things as
well. And no, one loosens the heads on BONGOS after playing,
not on congas (unless they were cranked up due to damp weather).
Musically congas are VERY versatile. They can be made to fit
a great many styles of music. I've had great fun playing
blues congas lately!
> There are lots of other drums out there, too, from Native American frame
> drums to packing crates (aka "cajon") and Tupperware. (Don't laugh - I
> heard a guy do a SERIOUS drum solo on a Tupperware lettuce tub once. And
> if you haven't heard Heywood Banks play a toaster, you haven't lived!)
> Indian tablas have an incredible range of sound, but they aren't
> particularly loud and I gather that they're a bitch to learn to play.
> And a simple tar can be incredibly rich and subtle when played
> skillfully. Check out Glenn Velez or Greg Ellis.
Of course anything you beat on that makes noise can be a "drum" or
at least a "percussion" instrument. Take a look that a percussionist's
"toys"! But usually all these are one trick ponies!
> A lot of the "ethno-techno" "arabesque" world beat stuff has doumbeks.
> But the afro-cuban kind of world-beat dance stuff is more djembes and
> congas.
But I think that for all-around versatility, it's hard to beat
a framedrum. there is a HUGE tradition of frame-drumming in
most cultures. They are loud enough to fit with most situations.
and when played well, can be totally impressive. That's my
vote for "most verstile" drum.
As just one example, in drum circles without dun duns, I typically
try to carry the bass beat with bass note of the djembe. This works
well. BUT at one circle I attend a woman brings an American Indian
Frame drum. I was AMAZED at how well that simple and relatively small
frame drum was able to carry the bass groove for the whole group.
POWERFUL drum!
> answer is:
> BUY MORE DRUMS!!! YOU CAN NEVER HAVE TOO MANY DRUMS!!!
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is the RULE! :-)
Benj
--
Due to SPAM innundation above address is turned off!
Bob Zamites
> P.S. You know the more I think about this, the more I think the right
> answer is:
>
> BUY MORE DRUMS!!! YOU CAN NEVER HAVE TOO MANY DRUMS!!!
>
Dang it, I'm just going to have to order another drum today then....my
wife is gonna kill me! :)
Bob
Michael
My advice: Bob cherish your wife and tell her you love her more than all
your drums toghether (you may fake if you have to). Tell her that you will
spend more time with her from now on and don't buy that drum yet. When you
sort of got able to play all those drums you have already gathered THAN tell
your wife: "hey baby, you see I can handle all these drums. My love, you
know this because I play for you every night. I fear of boring you and I
want to find another drum, another sound, another feel so that I can go on
pleasing you. There is this store that has this beautiful FRAMEDRUM! I want
to buy".
Bob, she will drop everything and will run to that shop to get you that
bloody drum!!!!
Good luck,
Michael
"Bob Zamites" <bzam...@nospam.zamites.us> schreef in bericht
news:Vgusb.54489$f53....@twister.austin.rr.com...
Dr. Speed
> pitched and you fill holes with it.
I play Doumbek myself and don't find this to be true. My Doumbek has a great
low tone, downright booming! I am also impressed with the range of tones I
can get out of it. I also play Congas. It takes more work to get the wider
range of sound out of each drum than the Doumbek for me but they each have
their place.
bja...@iwaynet.net
I'll be the first to admit that I'm not much of a doumbek player,
but I just can't imagine describing the bass tone of that tiny drum
as "booming"! I mean that's sort of like describing the low
strings on a guitar as producing really "deep" bass tones!
I agree about the range of tones, however. It is a nice little
drum. But when I've heard people play one mostly it's playing
high fast kind of rhythms. Very different style from say a
djembe which truely does produce "booming" bass.
I do agree it takes more work to get a wide range out of a conga because
you are playing "into" the drum. A djembe on the other hand
I think has an even wider range and because you are playing "off of"
the drum it's less force, but I'd never say that djembe playing
was not work!!! But in my experience, djembes tend not to fit nearly
as wide a range of music as do congas. Somehow the conga sound
seems to fit naturally with almost any style of music so long as
you can come up with a rhythm that fits. Djembes (and to a lesser
extent doumbeks) are louder, harsher, and less musical. This
tends to limit the styles that fit well. At least in my
humble experience.
Dr. Speed
> I'll be the first to admit that I'm not much of a doumbek player,
> but I just can't imagine describing the bass tone of that tiny drum
> as "booming"! I mean that's sort of like describing the low
> strings on a guitar as producing really "deep" bass tones!
> I agree about the range of tones, however. It is a nice little
> drum. But when I've heard people play one mostly it's playing
> high fast kind of rhythms. Very different style from say a
> djembe which truely does produce "booming" bass.
You would just have this thing to believe it. The bass note isn't super deep
but we have to be careful when we mic it as it will go into this bass
feed-back that is unreal! VERY resonant Bass tone.
eric stuer
goatskin. why?
more portable than conga
more powerful than doumbek
widest range of pitch, timbre & volume
one has to be willing & able to play any of these instruments in both
traditional and non-traditional fashion to get the most out of them. malinke
chops & repertoire, for example, won't help you much if you are playing that
djembe in a small bar with a songwriter with an acoustic guitar..in that
case you'll want to do some very undjembelike things, like play open &
closed notes, make use of muffling (with one hand)& harmonics, finger
techiniques, scratching and so on; to make a drum like a djembe versatile,
one must be able to think outside the box..
guys that do this well IMO include daveed korup and jamal mohamed...
I just started attending the wednesday night djembe classes here with
Yamoussa Camara, and it is going to be very useful. it has finally dawned on
me what kweku kept trying to tell me in '94 about hand positions... nine
years later; duh...old conga habits die slowly..<grin> "pa" is much more
like a tak than a conga slap, it's in the same place on the drum as a tak:
closer to the edge.
A djembe behaves sonically like a great big doumbek, basically..they have
much more in common with each other than either does with the conga.
goblets.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Goblet_Drumming
That said, cajones deserve a spot in the 'versatile' category too.. they
record much nicer than congas for most applications..i used my quinto cajon
instead of conga on one tune in the studio on a session this week, and they
liked it better, because they said it was cleaner, more compact, and
sonically more 'out of the way' of other timbres..i was excited when, on
another tune, they decided to use the sound of the Marvel "Hulk head" candy
bucket..my favorite new toy..the cheek and forehead have two distinct tones.
hair is scratchable with fingernails or whatever..best $3 i ever spent. some
of the new bigger halloween pumpkin light fixtures made of plastic are hip
too..
oh crap, i gpotta go to sleep..working in 3 hours..
e
8-]
bja...@iwaynet.net
> You would just have this thing to believe it. The bass note isn't super deep
> but we have to be careful when we mic it as it will go into this bass
> feed-back that is unreal! VERY resonant Bass tone.
I know what you mean about the micing thing. All Helmholtz resonator
drums (includes congas, djembes, and doumbeks) have that effect
where the resonator puts a HUGE sensitive peak into the mic
response if you get too close. Usually the unreal bass feedback
results in you aren't careful.
But I think maybe what you are talking about is the bass note
"cutting through". I've noticed that sometimes a higher pitched
"bass" note cuts through the mix far better than a lower one.
As I mentioned before about frame drums, at our drum circle it's
typical for me to take on the task of "driving" the circle using
the djembe bass tone. But there is a woman with an American Indian
frame drum who shows up sometimes and while the pitch of that
drum much higher than djembe bass, it still drives the circle
every bit as effectively as the deep djembe bass. Of course the
two of us together just walks all over everyone's minds.
Moosebumps
> "cutting through". I've noticed that sometimes a higher pitched
> "bass" note cuts through the mix far better than a lower one.
That is exactly what I've found with the doumbek. The bass sounds "deeper"
even though it is only more resonant than the average djembe, not lower in
pitch. I think the djembe has powerful bass, but your average "drum circle"
djembe is tuned too low, and the bass note is indistinct and dies away
pretty quickly.
If you think about it, a bass drum on a drumset is usually tuned higher than
you would expect to get the "thump" and the penetration. The bass guitar is
usually the lowest thing in the mix. If you tune the bass drum down there
it gets lost. You tune it up a bit so it cuts through, generally.
blindie
>
> I'll be the first to admit that I'm not much of a doumbek player,
> but I just can't imagine describing the bass tone of that tiny drum
> as "booming"! I mean that's sort of like describing the low
> strings on a guitar as producing really "deep" bass tones!
>
oh no, benj.
you should come and visit me. i'll boom the hell into your ready ears
with a 10" drum. it's crazy when you do not put pillow in the hole.
blindie
Glenn Higgins
was utterly amazed at the bass that came from this itty bitty drum. The same
size and style of doumbek with other heads did not sound anywhere close. I
tried out a few different ones at the shop, and the shopkeeper confirmed
that fishskin heads did give more low end response.
Moosebumps
> sound right* they sound incredible. But apparently, they are very
> sensitive to temp and humidity, and a lot of the time, they sound awful.
>
> Can anyone comment on this?
Yes, that's very true. I wouldn't say "awful", but they don't really sound
like doumbeks. I used to live in a place with air conditioning, and that
helps a whole lot. The drum sounds totally different, a lot crisper and
tighter. Now that I don't have air conditioning, I use mostly
synthetic-headed drums, and that works for me. What people usually do is
get a heating pad, and you just warm the drum up on that. I don't have the
time now to warm a drum up for 5 minutes every time I play though. : )
In general, for the doumbek, natural skin heads are pretty sensitive... the
drum sounds totally different from day to day, depending on the weather.
I haven't found the fishskin headed drums to necessarily have "more" bass
than other doumbeks, but I would say it is "tighter". it is more focused,
and quite pleasant.
MB
bja...@iwaynet.net
> Yes, that's very true. I wouldn't say "awful", but they don't really sound
> like doumbeks. I used to live in a place with air conditioning, and that
> helps a whole lot. The drum sounds totally different, a lot crisper and
> tighter. Now that I don't have air conditioning, I use mostly
> synthetic-headed drums, and that works for me. What people usually do is
> get a heating pad, and you just warm the drum up on that. I don't have the
> time now to warm a drum up for 5 minutes every time I play though. : )
> In general, for the doumbek, natural skin heads are pretty sensitive... the
> drum sounds totally different from day to day, depending on the weather.
> I haven't found the fishskin headed drums to necessarily have "more" bass
> than other doumbeks, but I would say it is "tighter". it is more focused,
> and quite pleasant.
I agree. I've got a fish skin Doumbek and like all natural skins
is rather weather sensitive. But even though I don't play mine
much, I've never noticed it being "awful". It does change quite
a bit with weather though (this is Ohio). But since I usually keep
it inside I've never seen it get way out of control (Like say
a djembe outside). And that's goo since I don't think there is
any reasonable way to change the head tension to tune it.
And I also agree that I don't think the bass is any
louder than non-fish doubeks. It is a nice sounding
drum though.
Dale
you or blasting the circlemate sitting behind you right between the eyes :)
I have a Remo tunable I consider a universal drum. You can change heads
easily and cheaply and alter the dynamics. As to the frame drum, it too is
up where the vibrations can smack you in the chest and head. If you get
someone with a strong arm and a beater, a frame drum can blast you right out
of your chair. I was at a festival circle where a hefty fellow grabbed a 22"
Remo frame drum and a beater and I couldn't believe the sound level coming
out of that drum. I had to move! A good tambourine can do much the same.
I think an ashiko with a good head is very universal-- sits between a djembe
and a conga. The doumbek wins hands down for weight, portability, and often
cost too.
"Moosebumps" <pur...@unadulterated.nonsense> wrote in message
news:ow_tb.31970$853....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com...
Mark Warrington
> I agree. I've got a fish skin Doumbek and like all natural skins
> is rather weather sensitive. But even though I don't play mine
> much, I've never noticed it being "awful". It does change quite
> a bit with weather though (this is Ohio). But since I usually keep
> it inside I've never seen it get way out of control (Like say
> a djembe outside). And that's goo since I don't think there is
> any reasonable way to change the head tension to tune it.
>
> And I also agree that I don't think the bass is any
> louder than non-fish doubeks. It is a nice sounding
> drum though.
>
> Benj
Well I am concentrating 100% on Indian tabla (now been playing for 2 years
and yes it is a bitch to learn but I am getting there slowly). But I did
have a couple of darabuka lessons and my teacher had a drum with a fish skin
head. He had a biscuit tin which he'd punched holes in and then had a
lightbulb inside with the wires poking through the side of the tin. He would
turn his drum upside down and place it on the tin to warm the skin with the
heat of the bulb. I'm not recommending this but it did seem to work quite
well.
Just thought I'd add that :-)
Cheers, Mark.
Moosebumps
> easily and cheaply and alter the dynamics. As to the frame drum, it too is
> up where the vibrations can smack you in the chest and head. If you get
Are you talking about a Remo tunable doumbek? What heads do you use for
them? I haven't seen a lot of replacement heads for hand drums around,
especially the synthetic ones.
What do you mean by universal exactly?
> someone with a strong arm and a beater, a frame drum can blast you right
out
> of your chair. I was at a festival circle where a hefty fellow grabbed a
22"
> Remo frame drum and a beater and I couldn't believe the sound level coming
> out of that drum. I had to move! A good tambourine can do much the same.
>
> I think an ashiko with a good head is very universal-- sits between a
djembe
> and a conga. The doumbek wins hands down for weight, portability, and
often
> cost too.
Yes, definitely doumbeks are the bargain among hand drums. : )
MB