female guitar wanted
Mario Gauthier
our electronica band.
We are currently recording for an upcoming release, so you must be of a
certain caliber.
You must be stable, serious and be willing to work hard.
Please reply to mailto:kza...@total.net for details!
Thank you,
Karle.
beethov...@my-deja.com
right reasons. You're limiting your band to only female guitarists?
I'm in no way saying that females can't make excellent guitarists. I'm
saying that you're creating an IMAGE and not MUSIC. Or rather, you're
putting your image as a higher priority to the music. It's hard enough
to find a musician that fits to one's band's style, why make it harder
by excluding a large proportion of the guitar-playing community?
-my $0.02
Mario Gauthier <ma...@mediamusique.com> wrote:
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> --------------FED392DE6006E236AEEE4733
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Jeff Liberatore
<beethov...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8u1tj1$tle$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Karle, I hate to say it, but I don't think you're in the biz for the
> right reasons.
Why would his opinion bothere you?
> You're limiting your band to only female guitarists?
Good for them...
> I'm in no way saying that females can't make excellent guitarists.
What _are_ you trying to say then?
> I'm
> saying that you're creating an IMAGE and not MUSIC.
Well, you can thank MTV for that...In some musical circles "image" is
everything...
> Or rather, you're
> putting your image as a higher priority to the music.
Not if they find the right person...
> It's hard enough
> to find a musician that fits to one's band's style, why make it harder
> by excluding a large proportion of the guitar-playing community?
Maybe you should buy a stuffed bra and flowery panties and respond if it
bothers you that much.
The thing you should be wary of, is that they are "currently recording"
their demo release and don't have a keyboardist and guitarist...Now that's
back-asswards...
> -my $0.02
Mine too!!!
--
Jeff
http://www.onlinerock.com/musicians/jl130/index.html
beethov...@my-deja.com
>
> > You're limiting your band to only female guitarists?
>
> Good for them...
hmmm... that puzzles me why you would want to encourage
discrimination. I mean, I'd understand looking for a singer of a
certain gender, seeing that gender effects vocal range and such. But
why only female guitarists?
> > I'm in no way saying that females can't make excellent guitarists.
>
> What _are_ you trying to say then?
try reading the next line in my post...
> > I'm
> > saying that you're creating an IMAGE and not MUSIC.
>
> Well, you can thank MTV for that...In some musical circles "image" is
> everything...
and that makes it right? because there are people who are
materialistic and choose that they'd rather look good than sound
good... that makes them valid artists? If you ask me, if you want to
look good, go to a fashion show; if you want to sound good, look for
good musicians.
> > Or rather, you're
> > putting your image as a higher priority to the music.
>
> Not if they find the right person...
Why not look for _talented_ guitarists first? Once they narrow down to
the ones that fit their wantings, THEN choose the one they like best or
looks the best.
> > It's hard enough
> > to find a musician that fits to one's band's style, why make it
harder
> > by excluding a large proportion of the guitar-playing community?
>
> Maybe you should buy a stuffed bra and flowery panties and respond if
it
> bothers you that much.
>
No, I'm not bothered. I'm not offended in any way. I'm just
questioning their priorities.
> The thing you should be wary of, is that they are "currently
recording"
> their demo release and don't have a keyboardist and guitarist...Now
that's
> back-asswards...
Jeff, here's one place where we're agreed. Also, an "electronica" band
without a keyboardist and a guitarist??? So, pretty much there's a
singer with a drum machine? Oh, right, might be a bassist too. =]
Jeff Liberatore
<beethov...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8u2iu3$e14$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> "Jeff Liberatore" <jlib...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> > > You're limiting your band to only female guitarists?
> >
> > Good for them...
>
> hmmm... that puzzles me why you would want to encourage
> discrimination. I mean, I'd understand looking for a singer of a
> certain gender, seeing that gender effects vocal range and such. But
> why only female guitarists?
My post was more of a "tounge in cheek" jab at you for actually caring about
this post in the first place...No harm intended ;-)...Just havin' some
fun...
>
> > > I'm in no way saying that females can't make excellent guitarists.
> >
> > What _are_ you trying to say then?
>
> try reading the next line in my post...
I did :-)
> > > I'm
> > > saying that you're creating an IMAGE and not MUSIC.
> >
> > Well, you can thank MTV for that...In some musical circles "image" is
> > everything...
>
> and that makes it right? because there are people who are
> materialistic and choose that they'd rather look good than sound
> good... that makes them valid artists? If you ask me, if you want to
> look good, go to a fashion show; if you want to sound good, look for
> good musicians.
Well, the only serious point I was trying to make is, if they are that
shallow to begin with, then it's a waste of time trying to prove yer point,
that's all...
> > > Or rather, you're
> > > putting your image as a higher priority to the music.
> >
> > Not if they find the right person...
>
> Why not look for _talented_ guitarists first? Once they narrow down to
> the ones that fit their wantings, THEN choose the one they like best or
> looks the best.
It's obvious by "todays" standards, it doesn't matter how "talented" you
are...You can hear it onthe radio every day...makes ya' wanna' cry, it does!
>
> > > It's hard enough
> > > to find a musician that fits to one's band's style, why make it
> harder
> > > by excluding a large proportion of the guitar-playing community?
> >
> > Maybe you should buy a stuffed bra and flowery panties and respond if
> it
> > bothers you that much.
> >
>
> No, I'm not bothered. I'm not offended in any way. I'm just
> questioning their priorities.
Voting democratic this year too? <G>
> > The thing you should be wary of, is that they are "currently
> recording"
> > their demo release and don't have a keyboardist and guitarist...Now
> that's
> > back-asswards...
>
> Jeff, here's one place where we're agreed. Also, an "electronica" band
> without a keyboardist and a guitarist??? So, pretty much there's a
> singer with a drum machine? Oh, right, might be a bassist too. =]
LOL...I agreed with you anyway...And then again I didn't really care. I
thought it just might be fun to play around with the subject matter a
little, without seriously caring about it one way or the other...Much more
fun than the "worst guitar solo ever recorded" thread...
beethov...@my-deja.com
"Jeff Liberatore" <jlib...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
> My post was more of a "tounge in cheek" jab at you for actually
caring about
> this post in the first place...No harm intended ;-)...Just havin' some
> fun...
It's cool. Just shocks me how the biz has lost perspective on what's
important.
> Well, the only serious point I was trying to make is, if they are that
> shallow to begin with, then it's a waste of time trying to prove yer
point,
> that's all...
You're probably right.... it's a lost cause
> It's obvious by "todays" standards, it doesn't matter how "talented"
you
> are...You can hear it onthe radio every day...makes ya' wanna' cry,
it does!
Very true
> LOL...I agreed with you anyway...And then again I didn't really care.
I
> thought it just might be fun to play around with the subject matter a
> little, without seriously caring about it one way or the other...Much
more
> fun than the "worst guitar solo ever recorded" thread...
OK then. True...
Not A Speck Of Cereal
[] In article <RFeN5.4628$r3.4...@typhoon.columbus.rr.com>,
[] "Jeff Liberatore" <jlib...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
[] > My post was more of a "tounge in cheek" jab at you for actually
[] caring about
[] > this post in the first place...No harm intended ;-)...Just havin' some
[] > fun...
[]
[] It's cool. Just shocks me how the biz has lost perspective on what's
[] important.
I don't think it's an issue at all. There's no discrimination here,
and if it's the marketing that bothers you, you probably don't even
want to be in the industry; but realize that accepting marketing
doesn't necessarily mean that you abandon what's important to you in
music.
Chris
----
"I shall allow no man to belittle my soul by making me hate him."
- Booker T. Washington, former slave
Remove X's from my email address above to reply
[These opinions are personal views only and only my personal views]
john v verkuilen
>"Jeff Liberatore" <jlib...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>> > You're limiting your band to only female guitarists?
>>
>> Good for them...
>hmmm... that puzzles me why you would want to encourage
>discrimination. I mean, I'd understand looking for a singer of a
>certain gender, seeing that gender effects vocal range and such. But
>why only female guitarists?
Now if they were asking for female guitarist/vocalist, it would make some
sense.
Jay
--
J. Verkuilen ja...@uiuc.edu
"I am an optimist. From where it is, music is mostly all right, or at least
in a healthy state for the future, in spite of the fact that it may sound as
though it is being held hostage." --Duke Ellington
beethov...@my-deja.com
will. =]
> There's no discrimination here,
Hmm... only looking for one sex? Yup, that's discrimination. You may
feel it's justified, but any way you look at it, there's discrimination.
> but realize that accepting marketing
> doesn't necessarily mean that you abandon what's important to you in
> music.
Since when? They're saying it's ok to put your appearance before your
talent. In my book, that's compromising what's important. Just
because it's common doesn't make it right. Basically you're saying
it's ok to compromise your morals because that's what sells records,
right? Well, ok, if they "accepted marketing" by choosing someone by
looks AFTER they found a few who would fit their needs musically, it'd
be a different situation. By DISCRIMINATING by gender first, they're
saying that marketing is more important than music. Maybe that's A.O.K
in your eyes, but to mine (and to most true musicians, I would hope),
it's not.
joey...@my-deja.com
http://www.angelfire.com/hi3/avoidintom/
She's a lot better than a majority of male guitarists I've seen !!
I'm not sure what happened to Kimmy the other lead guitarist in that
band but she was awesome too !!
Joey
In article <3A046E5D...@mediamusique.com>,
Mario Gauthier <ma...@mediamusique.com> wrote:
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> --------------FED392DE6006E236AEEE4733
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> We are looking for a female guitar and/or keyboard player to complete
> our electronica band.
> We are currently recording for an upcoming release, so you must be of
a
> certain caliber.
> You must be stable, serious and be willing to work hard.
>
> Please reply to mailto:kza...@total.net for details!
>
> Thank you,
>
> Karle.
>
> --------------FED392DE6006E236AEEE4733
> Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;
> name="mario.vcf"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Content-Description: Card for Mario Gauthier
> Content-Disposition: attachment;
> filename="mario.vcf"
>
> begin:vcard
> n:Gauthier;Mario
> tel;fax:(514) 722-2764
> tel;work:(514) 721-1518
> x-mozilla-html:FALSE
> url:http://www.mediamusique.com
> org:Media Musique
> adr:;;8480 boul. St-Michel;Montréal;QC;H1Z 3E8;
> version:2.1
> email;internet:ma...@mediamusique.com
> fn:Mario Gauthier
> end:vcard
>
> --------------FED392DE6006E236AEEE4733--
Not A Speck Of Cereal
[] Geez, I'm not gonna get into another war with you again. Or maybe I
[] will. =]
[]
[] > There's no discrimination here,
[]
[] Hmm... only looking for one sex? Yup, that's discrimination. You may
[] feel it's justified, but any way you look at it, there's discrimination.
Okay, you got me there. Technically, it's discrimination (dictionary:
"to make a difference or favor on a basis other than individual
merit"). But it wasn't to discriminate *against* males because they
lacked a musical merit, it was to favor a woman for that part for
marketing reasons (I'm assuming).
Also, I'm going to guess that there's men in the group. Asking for
this one slot to be filled by a female could have some
non-discriminatory reasons. For instance, if they're replacing a woman
lead-singer who left the group, the groups repertoire is songs
requiring a woman singer, then there would be no real discrimination.
So to state that the posters request was sexist without knowing the
reasons is assuming too much.
[] > but realize that accepting marketing
[] > doesn't necessarily mean that you abandon what's important to you in
[] > music.
[]
[] Since when?
Should I really provide a list of great musicians who used marketing
to help sell their art?
[] They're saying it's ok to put your appearance before your
[] talent.
That's another assumption. You really don't know why they want a
woman.
If they are making this decision based on appearance, why does this
necessarily mean that it comes before talent, or removes from the
talent of the group in any way? They didn't say "musicianship
expertise not required".
[] In my book, that's compromising what's important.
They don't have to compromise ANYTHING to put a woman in that spot.
That is, unless you don't think they could find a talented woman
[] Basically you're saying
[] it's ok to compromise your morals because that's what sells records,
[] right?
No, not at all. Nice "put words in my mouth" content. After a stupid
statement like that, I can see you don't respect my opinions, so
adios.
beethov...@my-deja.com
> Okay, you got me there. Technically, it's discrimination (dictionary:
> "to make a difference or favor on a basis other than individual
> merit"). But it wasn't to discriminate *against* males because they
> lacked a musical merit, it was to favor a woman for that part for
> marketing reasons (I'm assuming).
I wasn't commenting to protect males. I was simply saying that they're
putting their image before talent (further explained later)
> For instance, if they're replacing a woman
> lead-singer who left the group, the groups repertoire is songs
> requiring a woman singer, then there would be no real discrimination.
I completely agree. Actually, I made a similar statement in an earlier
post. But singing and playing guitar/keyboards is different... unless
they want female backup vocals, but that wasn't mentioned
> So to state that the posters request was sexist without knowing the
> reasons is assuming too much.
Who's putting words in who's mouth now? I never said it was sexist.
> Should I really provide a list of great musicians who used marketing
> to help sell their art?
You completely missed my point. Before even listening to those
interested, they're narrowing their options for image's sake.
> [] They're saying it's ok to put your appearance before your
> [] talent.
> That's another assumption. You really don't know why they want a
> woman.
Well, I guess it could be a guy really desperate for female company.
=P Otherwise, I can't find another reason except for maintaining an
image.
> If they are making this decision based on appearance, why does this
> necessarily mean that it comes before talent, or removes from the
> talent of the group in any way?
Uh, you answered it in your own question. THEY'RE MAKING THEIR DECISION
BASED ON APPEARANCE FIRST..... NOT TALENT. Again, I didn't say
it "removes from the talent of the group." I'm just saying that talent
should be their first priority, if it is MUSIC that they're truly
interested in.
> [] In my book, that's compromising what's important.
>
> They don't have to compromise ANYTHING to put a woman in that spot.
> That is, unless you don't think they could find a talented woman
Again, YOU are putting words in MY mouth. You're trying to make me out
as some "Girls can't play" macho-ist. Read my previous paragraph again
now.
> No, not at all. Nice "put words in my mouth" content. After a stupid
> statement like that, I can see you don't respect my opinions, so
> adios.
Calm down there, buddy. Obviously I didn't interpret your statements
the way you wanted me to. No reason to get all defensive. From what I
read, it seemed to me that you thought that it's ok to change your
integrity if it's good marketing. Seems like you're justifying
prefering to have a good image to a good sound. I can't tell you what
to think, but I see that as selling out-- and that being evidense that
you're in the biz for the wrong reasons.
song...@my-deja.com
ja...@uiuc.edu (john v verkuilen) wrote:
> beethov...@my-deja.com writes:
>
> >"Jeff Liberatore" <jlib...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > You're limiting your band to only female guitarists?
> >>
> >> Good for them...
>
> >hmmm... that puzzles me why you would want to encourage
> >discrimination. I mean, I'd understand looking for a singer of a
> >certain gender, seeing that gender effects vocal range and such. But
> >why only female guitarists?
>
Perhaps they're not comfortable working with a man on a daily basis.
Like a punk band not wanting a 65-year-old drummer. Or a Christian rock
group specifying non-smoker/non-drinker. It's their choice, and, since
it's a close-knit working situation, it's not for us to make much ado
about it.
If part of their choice is image (an all-girl group is a definite image
thing), even if "image" is chosen over musical talent, it's still their
choice. If it gets them noticed, we shouldn't bitch (no pun intended).
If the image thing works and they get well-known, of course, we'll all
pile on 'em, of course, but that goes with the territory (music
industry, fame, and all that).
Songuitar
--
Why are you reading this? The message is over.
beethov...@my-deja.com
> Perhaps they're not comfortable working with a man on a daily basis.
> Like a punk band not wanting a 65-year-old drummer. Or a Christian
rock
> group specifying non-smoker/non-drinker. It's their choice, and, since
> it's a close-knit working situation, it's not for us to make much ado
> about it.
Point taken. Didn't think of that.
> If part of their choice is image (an all-girl group is a definite
image thing)
Well, I wouldn't say 100% all the time, but I guess more often than not.