Bum notes in songs by well known artists..Rod Stewart
peter weekes
particularly "Cut across Shorty", and this version, which sounds as if it
was recorded all at once, as opposed to overdubbing, seems to have a bum
note, or chord in it. When they go into the turnaround after the chorus, It
comes
at
the
change
after
the
bit
about
the
"turtle and the hare".
Whoever is playing accoustic changes 2 beats early.
I wondered if any netters knew of other obvious errors in tracks by well
known artists ?
--
\ Peter Weekes wee...@swell.actrix.gen.nz
/ Box 7163 Wellington South
/ New Zealand
peter weekes
"Greatest Hits" LP, and noticed that towards the end, after the chorus
after the verse with the line in it "Just like that old story bout the
Turtle and the Hare", there's this line "It's you that I wanna wed" and
whoever is playing accoustic (Ron Wood?) changes 2 beats early.
peter weekes
peter weekes <wee...@swell.actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
I was listening to "Cut across Shorty" by Rod Stewart, off of the
"Greatest Hits" LP, and noticed that towards the end, after the chorus
after the verse with the line in it "Just like that old story bout the
Turtle and the Hare", there's this line "It's you that I wanna wed" and
whoever is playing accoustic (Ron Wood?) changes 2 beats early.
Do you know of any other instances of mistakes in recorded music
by famous personages ?
MR AGC PATON
>From: wee...@swell.actrix.gen.nz (peter weekes)
>Subject: Bum notes in songs by well known artists..Rod Stewart
>Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1993 08:06:58 GMT
If you listen to U2's song 'Love Rescue Me', towards the end when Bono comes
in with the last verse, the soft drumming and the guitar come in
unsynchronised, and the drummer corrects it. The song is on Rattle and Hum.
Alistair Paton (g93p...@warthog.ru.ac.za)
Victor Eijkhout
Do you know of any other instances of mistakes in recorded music
by famous personages ?
Joe Jackson, Night and Day, on `Slow Song' he completely misses
one chord.
Heart, Dreamboat Annie, on `<something> Man' the drummer forgets
that the chorus repeats and has to scramble to keep up with
the rest of the band.
--
Victor Eijkhout .............. Some visitors [to Buckingham Palace] conceded
Department of Computer Science ................... that they were sorry they
University of Tennessee ................. would not catch a glimpse of Queen
Knoxville TN 37996 ............ Elizabeth. [One American] complained, ``When
+1 615 974 8298 ......... we go to Disneyland, Mickey's there.'' [NYT930808]
lr...@cas.org
Live Cream "Crossroads" The drummer goes to the backbeat, Eric soloes on
1, and Jack Bruce doesn't know where to go. Then the verse comes back, and
everyone's on one. HOW DO THEY DO THAT?
Joe Walsh "Funk 49" Joe's stumbling little fill, and HE comes back in
on time...Grrrr. I can't even tap that one out.
Beatles "Happy birthday to you" Ringo's drumming slows by about 1/2
beat during his break. (Either that, or they were moving the mikes away:-)
--
Luke Mayercin lr...@cas.org "Why does ear wax taste like it does?"
Chemical Abstracts Service is not responsible for these comments.
Victor Eijkhout
Here's some that look like flubs:
Live Cream "Crossroads" The drummer goes to the backbeat, Eric soloes on
1, and Jack Bruce doesn't know where to go. Then the verse comes back, and
everyone's on one. HOW DO THEY DO THAT?
Looks to me more like your interpretation as a flub is itself a flub.
It does remind me of a Bonzo Dog tune, `Jazz, deliciously hot,
disgustingly cold' or something like that. At one point the rythm
is reduced to only back beats on a cymbal and banjo. This throws off the
trumpet player who interprets them as downbeats, but the
piano player then comes in correctly. Very funny.
swa...@ducvax.auburn.edu
Allman Bros, "One Way Out" from Eat A Peach -- there is a drum break, then
Duane and Dickey swap a few licks, then the band comes in--the thing is, the
band comes in WAY off beat, only they're together. In a recent interview,
Dickey Betts admitted it was a screwup, but the rest of the song was so
good, they decided to keep it. He also said that he has heard cover bands
play the song note for note, including the screwed up part!
--
David Swanger, Auburn University, Alabama, swa...@accs.duc.auburn.edu
sean kerns
|> Here's some that look like flubs:
|>
|> Live Cream "Crossroads" The drummer goes to the backbeat, Eric soloes on
|> 1, and Jack Bruce doesn't know where to go. Then the verse comes back, and
|> everyone's on one. HOW DO THEY DO THAT?
|>
"Falling down the stairs and landing on your feet" was Cream's specialty.
You can hear examples of this in several of their live songs. At some
points, all three of them are playing in different time.
Snake
=====================================================================
| Sean R. "Snake" Kerns e-mail: sean....@sdrc.com |
| DoD# 1052 '48 CJ-2A '79 F-250 4x4 429 '93 750 Virago |
| Structural Dynamics Research Corporation |
| These opinions aren't SDRC's... They may not even be MINE... |
=====================================================================
Dave Singer
the bass comes in a beat too early out of the drum/slide guitar
solo.
Dave Singer (dms...@erenj.com) | "It's not a guitar....
Exxon Research and Engineering |
Annandale, NJ 08801 | it's a Telecaster"
phone: 908-730-2317 |
Andrew Rogers
OK, a few I can think of...
In "Louie, Louie" by the Kingsmen, singer Jack Ely comes in a bar early
after the guitar solo.
In "I Saw Her Again" by the Mamas and Papas, John or Denny also comes in
a bar early after the bridge.
In the mono version of "Please Please Me" by those lovable Liverpool moptops
the Beatles, John Lennon and Paul McCartney sing different lines in the
final verse.
In "Two Trains Running" by the Blues Project, Danny Kalb's guitar goes out
of tune while soloing. What do you think they did about it? a) stop, retune,
and splice the takes together; b) retune on the fly and edit it out; c) retune
ith his right hand while hammering on with his left, and *leave it in*? If
you guessed c), you're correct... personally, I think that's pretty amazing!
Andrew
sean kerns
That's the way we learned it, and it was a bitch to get the timing right
on that part, but we did it....
Kinstrey
My favorite is on one of the early Van Halen albums.
Halfway thru the song, David Lee Roth has a line
"I like the way the line runs up the back of her
stocking", but comes in too early, and gets
out "I like ..." before waiting for the right section.
--
__________________________________________________________________________
Mike Kinstrey (518)385-1168
kins...@dso001.sch.ge.com Sattinger's Law:
kins...@crd.ge.com It works better if you plug it in.
__________________________________________________________________________
Tracey McCartney
>particularly "Cut across Shorty", and this version, which sounds as if it
>was recorded all at once, as opposed to overdubbing, seems to have a bum
>note, or chord in it. When they go into the turnaround after the chorus, It
>comes
>at
>the
>change
>after
>the
>bit
>about
>the
>"turtle and the hare".
>
>Whoever is playing accoustic changes 2 beats early.
>I wondered if any netters knew of other obvious errors in tracks by well
>known artists ?
sober long enough to decide whether a particular chord in "Patience"
would be major or minor, so each just sort of chose his own way
to play it. I happen to think that such sloppiness shows an egregious
lack of respect for listeners, and especially for their fans, to whom
they seem to be saying, "Hey, you suckers would buy our records if we
just farted into the microphone."
This was almost as good as their failure to learn to play "Live and Let
Die" correctly before recording it.
All IMHO, of course, and I don't think this is the same thing as a
one-time flub in a live performance. Some bands are just slackers,
and they laugh all the way to the bank with the money of people who
think musicianship is obsolete.
Tracey
Chris Losinger
a D....C "Touch Me I'm Sick!" part where there shouldn't be one.
It only lasts a half a moment, but it's there. right after 1st verse
, i believe.
Umm...every other Replacements' song, or so, has a BIG mess up in it.
But that's why we love them, isn't it?
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
c h r i s l o s i n g e r r i t
George Stachnik
during "Light My Fire" by the Doors. It comes after
Robbie Krieger's guitar solo, just after Ray repeats the
keyboard figure (the one that starts off the song). It's audible
on both the "long version" and the "short version" of the
song). Just a split second before Morrison comes back in to
sing the final verse, there's a loud "beep" that's pretty
obviously Ray hitting a wrong note.
A slightly different kind of flub: has anybody besides me
ever noticed the words "Son of a bitch" artfully buried in
the middle of the song "Standing in the Shadows of Love"?
(I'm talking about the motown hit from the 60's by, (I
think) the 4 Tops?) It's in the chorus, "Standing in the
shadows of love, sumonabish I'm gettin' ready for the
heartache to come...."
But most hilarious of all, I think, is Pete Townshends
complete screwup during the live version of "Won't Get
Fooled Again" seen in the movie "The Kids are Allright".
It's at the point after Rabbit's minimalist keyboard solo
when the whole band plays a series of powerchord figures (just
before the last verse - the one that begins, "There's
nothin' in the street...") The band is going, (please
forgive the limitations of ASCII here), "Baaaaaam... Bap
Bap" - and Pete's supposedly leading the charge, except he's
a beat ahead of everybody else. Y'gotta give the old geezer
credit though. He makes it look like he played it that way
on purpose. The only thing funnier was the look on his face
during the guitar solo (a few too many leapers, eh Pete?),
and the way he wiggles his butt at the camera shortly after
the beginning of Baba O'Reilley. Hard to reconcile those
pictures with the image that many people have of Pete being
this *real* *SERIOUS* writer....
julius yang
hits his sticks together and, I think, yells "F**K", almost inaudibly.
The second is when the singer comes in a bar too early after the solo
section.
And on War Heroes Jimi Hendrix completely does not want to do 'Goldilocks'
because it is TOO STUPID. You should hear this track; he keeps on playing
anyway, but halfheartedly. It's hilarious.
mofo
where plant is just singing ooh yeah, oooh yeah. its always sounded to me like
the bass went into the next part of the blues progression and jimmy page didnt
for a whole measure. it sounds clashed for this measure and then they resync
and it sounds ok again. anybody hear this? i cant imagine it was intentional;
they were playing 4 bar blues all the way until this part.
d
--
mo...@netcom.com if you want to get ahead, you need to give a little...
Kevin Stahl
In article <CDAAA...@actrix.gen.nz>, wee...@swell.actrix.gen.nz (peter weekes) writes:
|> I was listening to "Cut across Shorty" by Rod Stewart, off of the
|> "Greatest Hits" LP, and noticed that towards the end, after the chorus
|> after the verse with the line in it "Just like that old story bout the
|> Turtle and the Hare", there's this line "It's you that I wanna wed" and
|> whoever is playing accoustic (Ron Wood?) changes 2 beats early.
|>
During Van Halen's cover of Roy Orbison's "Oh, Pretty Woman" (VH's version
is on _Diver Down_) they screw up the bridge between the 2nd & 3rd verses.
It's the part of the vocals were it goes:
'Cause I need you I'll treat you right
Come with me baby Be mine tonight
It should go somthing like A, F#m, Dm, E but they just play the main riff
under it. Edward has admitted it was a flub but says he really didn't know
until much later when it was pointed out to him. He said they just improvised
what they THOUGHT the tune sounded like in the studio and recorded it.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Stahl "If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about
Richardson, TX USA cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all
st...@iex.com the time, for no good reason." - Jack Handey
Casey Harper Connor
>In article <CD6Jv...@actrix.gen.nz>
>wee...@swell.actrix.gen.nz (peter weekes) writes:
>
>>Whoever is playing accoustic changes 2 beats early.
>>I wondered if any netters knew of other obvious errors in tracks by well
>>known artists ?
>
>The two guitar players (?) in Guns 'n' Roses couldn't seem to get
>sober long enough to decide whether a particular chord in "Patience"
>would be major or minor, so each just sort of chose his own way
>to play it. I happen to think that such sloppiness shows an egregious
>lack of respect for listeners, and especially for their fans, to whom
>they seem to be saying, "Hey, you suckers would buy our records if we
>just farted into the microphone."
Don't forget the one picking part just before the long string of "comon
patiiiencceee" that comes in like 2 and 2/3rds beats late or something. That
really annoys me, but it adds to the song...
>All IMHO, of course, and I don't think this is the same thing as a
>one-time flub in a live performance. Some bands are just slackers,
>and they laugh all the way to the bank with the money of people who
Hey now, let's not get too insultory...They're not ALL bad...
-C
--
GIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIG
G _____ _______ * * I
I |_ _|\ * * | _____)\ * --=*> ch...@cec1.wustl.edu <*=-- * G
G * \| |\ \ * | |\ \ * * 655321, Sir * I
I _| |_ N D I G O | | /~|\ I R L S * * G
G |_____|\ * | ~~~ | * * * Where there's now one * I
I \ \ * * \~~~~~~ \ * There will be two. * G
GIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGIGI
Daniel L. Lovall
> Umm...every other Replacements' song, or so, has a BIG mess up in it.
> But that's why we love them, isn't it?
>
Yeah, my fav is in "Androgenous" on Let it Be. That piano fuck-up at the end
makes the whole song.
Dan
Steve Wyrick
wee...@swell.actrix.gen.nz writes:
> Do you know of any other instances of mistakes in recorded music
>by famous personages ?
a series of releases (reverse bends) on the guitar part, during the words
"...castles in the sky" it sounds like the guitarist came in a beat late;
he has to scramble to get the next one in on time. This one's always
bothered me but I've been unsure whether it's a mistake or not, since
I've never heard another performance of it.
---------------------------------------------
"The national budget must be balanced. The public debt must be reduced;
the arrogance of the authorities must be moderated and controlled.
Payments to foreign governments must be reduced, if the nation doesn't
want to go bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living
on public assistance." - Marcus Tullius Cicero, 55 BC
Steve Wyrick (sjwy...@lbl.gov)
William Thomas Bajzek
In a previous article, TMCC...@ua1vm.ua.edu (Tracey McCartney) says:
>In article <CD6Jv...@actrix.gen.nz>
>wee...@swell.actrix.gen.nz (peter weekes) writes:
>
>>I was listening to RS's greatest hits collection in the car yesterday,
>>particularly "Cut across Shorty", and this version, which sounds as if it
>>was recorded all at once, as opposed to overdubbing, seems to have a bum
>>note, or chord in it. When they go into the turnaround after the chorus, It
>>comes
>>at
>>the
>>change
>>after
>>the
>>bit
>>about
>>the
>>"turtle and the hare".
>>
>>Whoever is playing accoustic changes 2 beats early.
>>I wondered if any netters knew of other obvious errors in tracks by well
>>known artists ?
>
>The two guitar players (?) in Guns 'n' Roses couldn't seem to get
>sober long enough to decide whether a particular chord in "Patience"
>would be major or minor, so each just sort of chose his own way
>to play it. I happen to think that such sloppiness shows an egregious
>lack of respect for listeners, and especially for their fans, to whom
>they seem to be saying, "Hey, you suckers would buy our records if we
>just farted into the microphone."
>
>This was almost as good as their failure to learn to play "Live and Let
>Die" correctly before recording it.
>
>All IMHO, of course, and I don't think this is the same thing as a
>one-time flub in a live performance. Some bands are just slackers,
>and they laugh all the way to the bank with the money of people who
>think musicianship is obsolete.
>
>Tracey
>
Fuck you. Both Patience and Live and Let Die are very good. If they play
the chords differently from each other, so what? It sounds good. It's not
disrespect, it's just, "hey, this sounds good, lets keep it."
What's wrong with Live and Let Die? What, did they play that little part
in the middle wrong? Did they play it differently from the original? If
covers should sound just like the originals, what's the point? Why didn't
they just put Paul Mcartney's version on their album with axl's voice
overdubbed? Some bands don't want to play things exactly the same, and
a lot of times feel is much more important than getting every note perfect
(no disrespect to the awesome Dream Theater). Musicianship is very important,
but songs are much more important. Musicianship is a balance between feel,
performance, songwriting, and using your abilities effectively. It's not
just precision (and speed).
Bill
--
Bill Bajzek |\ | /| PANTERA DAMN YANKEES
aq...@yfn.ysu.edu | \|/ | STRONGER THAN ALL ALL THE SQUIRREL YOU CAN EAT
"Head like a hole! Black as your soul! I'd rather die! Than give you control!"
"Bow down before the one you serve. You're going to get what you deserve" NIN
Donald Parker
(p.s. that is what I love about the guy - he imparts a real sense of humor
into his work.)
Robert W. Northcott
My favorite has always been after the bridge in "Feel a Whole Lot Better"
by the Byrds. Right at "I'm not gonna play...your games anymore" the bass
doesn't change at the right time. It really sticks out too. I also
always thought that Dylan blew the line right at "I...because time was on
his side" in "I Want You". It sounds like he started to go into the "I
want you" chorus too soon and had to backpedal. But with Dylan it could
have been intentional or affected.
Robert W. Northcott
In the vocal on this song Roth also says..."I can't believe you, you must
be true."
Darran Edmundson
>Whoever is playing accoustic changes 2 beats early.
>I wondered if any netters knew of other obvious errors in tracks by well
>known artists ?
I don't know if these have been mentioned but ....
There's a foulup in the picking pattern near the end of Kris Kristofferson's
(sp?) "to beat the devil."
Also, Steven Stills flubs a note during "find the cost of freedom." I
think this is on the live album "four way street" so it can be forgiven ;-)
It's so obvious that I can't bear to listen to this version. I find
myself waiting for the painful moment.
--
Darran Edmundson
dedm...@sfu.ca
sean kerns
They admitted in interviews that they just did the song from memory. They didn't
go get a tape and say "Okay, verse...bridge, etc". That would have been "un-VH"
of them. Same is true of their cover of "Won't Get Fooled Again"; they're just
screwing around, having fun. About the only cover tunes I've heard where it really
seems like they studied the original are Cream covers, which is related to Eddie's
reverence for Cream and Clapton's Cream-era playing. He has said that he "knows all
the Cream solos, note-for-note..", and after hearing versions of "Politician",
"Sitting on Top of the World", and "Crossroads", to name a few, I'm inclined to
believe him.
Dale H Emery
In The Beatles' "If I Fell", Paul's voice either cracks or drops out at
the end of the "vain" in the second or third "and I would be sad if our
new love was in vain."
George Harrison's slide does something goofy during one of the choruses
near the end of Badfinger's "Day After Day."
Dale
icsi...@msu.oscs.montana.edu
have choked notes and flubbed riffs in every one of his Zep solos.
Randolph B. Guess
some others,
"Yellow Submarine" (acoustic guitar)
"...Mobile with the Memphis Blues Again" by B. Dylan
(electric organ)
These both involve a wrong chord being played.
Michael J Peet
> I don't recall anyone mentioning Jimmy Page in any of this. He must
>have choked notes and flubbed riffs in every one of his Zep solos.
Sure, the "Heartbreaker" solo really stands out, however,
I think ole Jimmy (read:GOD) actually intended a good deal of
'subtle' notes (read:choked notes). Seriously, though, Jimmy Page
has more soul than many other guitarists. Which is why I was wondering
if anyone has the tab for "Since I've Been Loving You", or if somebody
knows for sure if it's at Nevada. Thanks!
-Mike
Joshua J Buysse
Look, I don't think that all that many people would
care that an artist fucked up one note out of a solo.
Personally, I think that it improves the music: it lets
you know that you aren't just listening to a machine.
A couple of examples of the sterile, dry, BORING music
that I am referring to is Satriani, or Malmsteen, etc.
I'd prefer that you don't just flame up about my choice
of examples: it is my personal feeling.
Back to the point: GIVE UP ON THIS THREAD.
Brian Bremer
say that these screw-ups RUIN the song, but just
to notice that your favorite bands aren't necessarily
perfect. For example, I love the song "All My Love" on
_In Through The Out Door_ by Led Zeppelin, but I still
cringe everytime I hear the part in Jonesy's keyboard
solo, where he screws up. It adds character to the
song.
Back the the point: LIGHTEN UP!!
james reese
_Out of Time_ album a couple of years back, Michael Stipe begins the
second verse a little too early:
This flower's scorched, this film is on
On a maddening loop, these clothes...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ oops!
These clothes don't fit us right....
For anyone interested, the chords are:
Em-G-D-C-G-D-C
repeated over and over (with feeling :).
icsi...@msu.oscs.montana.edu
>In article <009730EB...@Msu.oscs.montana.edu>, icsi...@Msu.oscs.montana.edu writes...
>> I don't recall anyone mentioning Jimmy Page in any of this. He must
>>have choked notes and flubbed riffs in every one of his Zep solos.
>
> Sure, the "Heartbreaker" solo really stands out, however,
>I think ole Jimmy (read:GOD) actually intended a good deal of
>'subtle' notes (read:choked notes). Seriously, though, Jimmy Page
>has more soul than many other guitarists.
>
didn't mean to imply his flubbs made him a bad guitarist at all.
>
>-Mike
>
peter weekes
fucked up", it came from hearing one early chord change, on Cut across
Shorty, and at the time, I thought, "Wow, even these guys make mistakes !"
It somehow made it easier for me to visualise these young musos in the
studio (or was it the garage :)), experiencing the same feelings I've had.
I agree with the poster who said, this thread actually heightens the
appreciation of some songs (certain painful exceptions noted!). It's
interesting too, that the artists, and record company obviously thought
that a certain degree of "human element" was acceptable, or at least not
bad enough to prevent release. I think it's a little like collecting
flawed stamps, they are interesting because they exist.
Lindsey Smith
>> Sure, the "Heartbreaker" solo really stands out, however,
>>I think ole Jimmy (read:GOD) actually intended a good deal of
>>'subtle' notes (read:choked notes). Seriously, though, Jimmy Page
>>has more soul than many other guitarists.
>>
> I agree. He truly is one of the greatest rock guitarits of all time. I
>didn't mean to imply his flubbs made him a bad guitarist at all.
I like to think that Jimmy is/was a much better musician than guitar player.
He knew what he _wanted_ to play, but couldn't always pull it off, as
opposed to Yngvie Malmsteen-types who could play anything, but couldn't
write their way out of a wet paper bag [Euro baroque metal fans: send flames
to /dev/null please]. As you can guess I'd much rather listen to the musician
than the guitarist...
Steve Howe strikes me as this kind of guy too. Check the I've Seen All Good
People solo as an example.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Lindsey Smith Fifth Generation Systems
sm...@fgs200.fgs.com Baton Rouge, LA
George G Ballas
I think Lindsey hit the nail right on the head.
More often than not, the guitarists who create a legacy (Page,
Clapton, Hendrix, etc.) are not necessarily good guitarists, but they
are good musicians.
On the other hand, you have your Malmsteen types who, like
Lindsey said, can play anything, but can't write any music.
Consequently, this playing is boring and tiresome to listen to, esp.
for non-guitarists.
However, I would like to add that there are guitarists who can
do both. Satriani, Holdsworth, Hedges, DiMeola et al, are capable of
extreme technical virtuosity, but what distinguishes them from most
guitarists is their ability to use that virtuosity to express emotions,
and to evoke feelings and moods from the listeners. I think that's
why these guys have audiences that encompass everyone from those
without any musical talent to people like Steve Vai, Kirk Hammet, etc.
Just thought I'd contibute. For once.
icsi...@msu.oscs.montana.edu
> More often than not, the guitarists who create a legacy (Page,
> Clapton, Hendrix, etc.) are not necessarily good guitarists, but they
> are good musicians.
>
>
> do both. Satriani, Holdsworth, Hedges, DiMeola et al, are capable of
> extreme technical virtuosity, but what distinguishes them from most
> guitarists is their ability to use that virtuosity to express emotions,
> and to evoke feelings and moods from the listeners. I think that's
> why these guys have audiences that encompass everyone from those
> without any musical talent to people like Steve Vai, Kirk Hammet, etc.
>
>
any of the names you listed in my personal list of guitarists who are both.
Just my personal preferance but I don't enjoy any of these guys even from a
tech. point of view with my first hand knowledge as a somewhat empolyable jazz
guitarist.
>
>
George Kirk u
bunch of times, from completely sounding like crap to actually forgetting
the words...I think it's on the song "The Evil That Men Do"...it's
hilarious..
George Kirk
kirk...@mach1.wlu.ca
Philip Schniter
>>
>> More often than not, the guitarists who create a legacy (Page,
>> Clapton, Hendrix, etc.) are not necessarily good guitarists, but they
>> are good musicians.
>>
>>
>> However, I would like to add that there are guitarists who can
>> do both. Satriani, Holdsworth, Hedges, DiMeola et al, are capable of
>> extreme technical virtuosity, but what distinguishes them from most
>> guitarists is their ability to use that virtuosity to express emotions,
>> and to evoke feelings and moods from the listeners...
......... and these are the guys who don't.
You don't need technical virtuosity to express emotion or to inspire
generations. In fact, I think that usually it gets in the way. Why?
Because you rely on a specific elite group to appreciate it, and because
you censor your own creative abilities if they don't come out as
impressive as the next guys.
Bill Hunt
>care that an artist fucked up one note out of a solo.
>
>of examples: it is my personal feeling.
>
>Back to the point: GIVE UP ON THIS THREAD.
Do the words "Kill file" ring a bell? Nothings' quite as annoying as a
self-appointed News Nazi protecting the sanctity of his own precious group.
Bill Hunt
bi...@novell.com
Craig Reinhart
>>Back to the point: GIVE UP ON THIS THREAD.
How about this for an ending to this thread. To paraphrase
George Harrison
...the chords may sound wrong, but there not. He just plays
them like that... It's Only a Northern Song.
Craig.
Julie Webster
: >
: > However, I would like to add that there are guitarists who can
: > extreme technical virtuosity, but what distinguishes them from most
: > guitarists is their ability to use that virtuosity to express emotions,
: > and to evoke feelings and moods from the listeners. I think that's
: > why these guys have audiences that encompass everyone from those
: > without any musical talent to people like Steve Vai, Kirk Hammet, etc.
: >
: >
: I agree with what you say in the first paragraph, but, I wouldn't put
: any of the names you listed in my personal list of guitarists who are both.
: Just my personal preferance but I don't enjoy any of these guys even from a
: tech. point of view with my first hand knowledge as a somewhat empolyable jazz
: guitarist.
I saw Satriani live and it was the most soul-less, emotionless, bloodless
show I've ever seen. The best part of the show was the 15 minute solo
by the bass player in the middle. That was wonderful.
: >
: >
--
Julie Webster
"Abolish Monday mornings and Friday afternoons."
j...@keps.com
Bryan D Donaldson
Was it Stu Hamm? I saw him live three years ago
and I must agree with you...Stu's performance was
the highlight.
Bryan Donaldson
Mike Porter
>Was it Stu Hamm? I saw him live three years ago
>and I must agree with you...Stu's performance was
>the highlight.
I saw Satch on the "Surfing..." tour, and I must say, it restored my faith in
rock'n'roll. I was beginning to think everything was generic power-pop or this
disco resurgence, when Satch came along with well-played instrumental rock, and
played it convincingly onstage. Stu Hamm DID blow everybody completely away,
though, probably because he was unknown at that time (pretty much), and no one
expected that! But that didn't stop the rest of the concert from being very
good; much the opposite! One of the better ones I've been to (the absolute
BEST still being the Yes Union show).
Maybe Satch has his good days and bad days...
---Michael...
Ricochet
In article <1993Oct1.1...@mlb.semi.harris.com> m...@suntan.mlb.semi.harr
is.com (Mike Porter) writes:
>In article <28fs31$g...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> bdon...@ehsn21.cen.uiuc.edu (Bryan
D Donaldson) writes:
>>and I must agree with you...Stu's performance was
>>the highlight.
==
>I saw Satch on the "Surfing..." tour, and I must say, it restored my faith in
>rock'n'roll. I was beginning to think everything was generic power-pop or thi
s
>disco resurgence, when Satch came along with well-played instrumental rock, an
d
>played it convincingly onstage. Stu Hamm DID blow everybody completely away,
>though, probably because he was unknown at that time (pretty much), and no one
>expected that! But that didn't stop the rest of the concert from being very
>good; much the opposite! One of the better ones I've been to (the absolute
>BEST still being the Yes Union show).
> Maybe Satch has his good days and bad days...
> ---Michael...
>
I've seen him twice, once on the FLying... tour and once on The
Extremist tour. The first time I saw him, Stu Hamm was definetly the highlight
of the show. Jonathan Mover was impressive, and Satch was dissapointingly
mediocre (for a guitar god).
When I saw him last year, however, he totally kicked a**. His
showmanship and ability to get the crowd to respond was 1000 times better than
the first show. He truly is the best, and I guess that he does just have off
days.
Ricochet
J GASKELL
Syd Barrett's solo albums (The Madcap Laughs, Barrett). These were
recorded when Syd was really on the decline (mentally, not creatively),
so I guess it is understandable. I am not talking about Opel or any of
the other albums of outtakes, etc. Opel even contains parts where Syd
stops to turn the page, but these were not meant for release, so I guess
it doesn't really count.
JAG
*****************************************************************
* Joel A. Gaskell, Esq. * Fodder, Flax, *
* University College of * Fire and Frigge. *
* Northern Victoria * *
*****************************************************************
* I read the news today, oh boy, *
* About a lucky man who made the grade, *
* And though the news was rather sad, *
* Well, I just had to laugh, *
* I saw the photograph. *
* - Lennon/McCartney *
*****************************************************************
Julie Webster
It was Stu Hamm. He was wonderful. I have to disagree with Michael
about Satch, he got boring after the first song [and that was before he
copped an attitude.] To paraphrase SRV he needs to learn when to leave notes
out [and then get some feeling].
Eric L. Hinson
> It was Stu Hamm. He was wonderful.
Oh yeah, Stu Hamm is an excelent bass player, no doubt about it. I'd go to a
show just to see him rip it up on the bass. :)
> I have to disagree with Michael
> about Satch, he got boring after the first song [and that was before he
> copped an attitude.] """""""""""""""""""""""
""""""""""""""""""""
I would have expected such a comment about someone like Yngwie Malmsteen (who
even though I like his stuff, is notorious for having an attitude).
> To paraphrase SRV he needs to learn when to leave notes
> out [and then get some feeling]
I beg to differ with you on this one, he playes with more feeling than most
of the well-known guitarists out there.
Mark Thomas Danielson
Julie Webster (j...@keps.com) wrote:
>Mike Porter (m...@suntan.mlb.semi.harris.com) wrote:
>: In article <28fs31$g...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> bdon...@ehsn21.cen.uiuc.edu (Bryan D Donaldson) writes:
>: >Was it Stu Hamm? I saw him live three years ago
>: >and I must agree with you...Stu's performance was
>: >the highlight.
>: ================================================================================
>: I saw Satch on the "Surfing..." tour, and I must say, it restored my faith in
>: though, probably because he was unknown at that time (pretty much), and no one
>: expected that!
>It was Stu Hamm. He was wonderful.
>--
> Julie Webster
I have never seen Satch live, but I did see Stu Hamm's band play
in a small auditorium at Stanford in 12/91. Stu Hamm was the
biggest cheese-ball poser I have ever seen perform. His gutless
flash and glam did not even come close to fooling the small crowd
who had just enjoyed a friendly, honest display of genuine musical and
personal expression by the opening act: Steve Morse in a rare
performance without a complete band.
Steve sat alone with a classical guitar, amazing the crowd with his
masterful technique while radiating feelings everywhere. Between
songs he held conversations with the fans (yes, it was a small,
quiet, cozy auditorium), told jokes and stories, answered questions,
and laughed a lot with the crowd. He switched to electric guitar
and messed around with some effects he was trying out and not
too familiar with yet. We got to see Steve explore, learn, and grow
before our very eyes. Unbelievable stuff. Then he had bassist Dave
Larue join him for some songs. Larue didn't talk much, but his bass
did. In every way, shape, and form, LaRue is a better bassist than
Stu Hamm. If you don't believe me, go see him at a Steve Morse Band
show or a Dreggs show. Like Steve, LaRue is the genuine article: the
real thing, no gimmicks. By the end, Steve had played incredible
music in a special setting, had truly opened up and exposed his total
inner self to the crowd, and left each fan feeling like Steve was
a new best friend. Though the best musical performance I have ever seen
was Stanley Jordan alone on stage, the best overall self-expressive
performance I've seen was this Steve Morse show. Magical.
Then Stewed Ham got on stage, referred to Steve as "Steve Morris",
and bombarded the crowd with every form of glittery sensory input
imaginable in order to distract the crowd from his music. It
didn't work. He kept recycling his 3 or 4 fancy bass fills over
and over, trying to impress the crowd and feed his immense ego.
Many times he pulled off a previously heard (though difficult) lick
and literally stopped, held up both arms with a huge shrug of the
shoulders and pleaded for affirmation. The crowd did not let this
visibly pouting baby have his way. Stu Hamm is a squid with no backbone.
He has no substance. Steve Morse unintentionally helped an auditorium
full of people see Stu Hamm for what he really is. What an empty shell.
Don't pay your hard-earned money to go babysit Stu, unless there's
an opener like Steve Morse!
-Mark Danielson
Paul Anthony Ceccato
"Cab I Play with Madness", where Bruce sings the
opening line with vocal harmony unaccompianied
with listening to a starting pitch... yuck!
Robert Davy
: visibly pouting baby have his way. Stu Hamm is a squid with no backbone.
: He has no substance. Steve Morse unintentionally helped an auditorium
: full of people see Stu Hamm for what he really is. What an empty shell.
Before you go too far remember that you are talking about Stu's solo spot
which is rather different to the band situation. However when I saw Stu's
solo spot I was mesmerised from start to finish...
: Don't pay your hard-earned money to go babysit Stu, unless there's
: an opener like Steve Morse!
Stu's first album, "Radio Free Albemuth", is one of my favourite all time
albums. Not for the bass playing but for the musicality and composition.
I have seen both Stu and Steve, I thought both were brilliant. I have Steve
Morse's last two albums and maybe it's just me but the only thing I hear on
those records is guitar chops.
I once read an interview in Guitar World with Stu, he seemed quite humble
and he acknowledged that there were bass players that were technically much
better than him.
--Robert
Jeff Preston
In a previous article, ee...@tesla.newcastle.edu.au (Robert Davy) says:
>Stu's first album, "Radio Free Albemuth", is one of my favourite all time
>albums. Not for the bass playing but for the musicality and composition.
I've been looking for this on CD for some time... is it out of
print? If not, does anyone know where to find a copy?
>I have seen both Stu and Steve, I thought both were brilliant. I have Steve
>Morse's last two albums and maybe it's just me but the only thing I hear on
>those records is guitar chops.
I have to agree there's more "athleticism" and less compositional
shine on Morse's last two solo releases (_Southern Steel_ and _Coast
to Coast_), but each has its moments. Other than the high points on
those discs, I can barely tell them apart. This would not, however,
deter me from seeing Morse live... and I might trade unused body
parts for good seats at a Dregs show. :)
Jeff
--
Jeff Preston =*= Moderator of the Allan Holdsworth discussion forum
=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= atavachro...@msuacad.morehead-st.edu =*=*=*=
Frank Greco
I saw Satriani live at the cozy Bottom Line in NYC sometime ago
and I'll have to disagree, intensely. It was a mind-boggling
concert that captured some of the most emotional guitar playing
I've ever heard live (and I've seen quite a bit).
Satriani bandmate, Stu Hamm's long bass solo during the first
show was phenomenal; during the second show (yeah... I loved
the first show so much I stayed/payed for the second) Stu's
solo was very weak and pointless (although technically
proficient).
Satch was superb, technically and emotionally that night.
Of course, when Mick Jagger jumped on stage for the encore to
do Red House... It was one of the most thrilling and surprising
musical performances I've ever witnessed.
Frank G.
--
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