Godin Flat Five greatly improved! Thanks Carlos Lorenzo!
Harry J
upgrades would do the trick and it has.
The first thing I did was replaced the somewhat thin sounding stock pickups
with Dimarzio Air Classic (designed for the bridge position) 8.04K
resistance in the neck position for a tad more warmth and Air Norton in the
bridge (12.6K resistance). This warmed up the tone a good deal.
The 2 newest changes kicked it up a few notches more.
First off, Godin used a gorgeous solid figured maple top (on my model), but
then they caked on a super thick polyurethane finish.
A good choice from a builders perspective, as it is requires little to no
curing time and only a few coats are needed. This thick plastic like finish
really prohibited the top from vibrating like it should.
I stripped of the poly with a superb product called ZAR stripper, one of the
few that will also turn a Fender type Polyester finish into jelly.
A friend of mine is a pro finisher (how convenient) and he owed me a
favor... (the stars are right now)... So he put a medium thin nitro
cellulose lacquer finish on it. Much improved! More resonance, and
character.
Now for the coolest stuff:
Godin used a cheap piece of crap 5 way switch, and didn't really take
advantage of some cool wiring options, opting for a simple coil cut instead.
I had originally installed a Schaller mega switch with the P.R.S. switching
options.( see my harmony central posting from 03/13/2003 for details)
http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Data4/Godin/Flat-Five-01.html
The mega switch is a pretty good upgrade, but they do require a good hit of
Caig's Deoxit now and then to keep them clean.
I wanted more tonal variation from this guitar so here comes the newest mod:
I wanted to have the standard 2 'bucker fare plus:
the upper coil of the neck in single(closest to the neck) 4.07K
upper coil of the bridge in single (less shrill more strat like) 5.56K
2 outer coils in parallel (tele ping) 2.59K
2 inner coils in parallel (strat quack, P.R.S.tone) 2.32K
2 inner coils in series ( a fatter warmer strat tone) 9.52K
2 neck coils in series with the upper bridge coil ( to die for tone, warmth
with a touch of ping) 13.46K
I have found that most of the time all 4 coils in series is far too muddy of
a tone to use, but 3 coils is perfect!
I want to thank a fellow group member, Carlos Lorenzo for his ability to
take my wish list and create a diagram that would make it happen with just 1
push/pull pot, a 4 pole 5 way switch, and a 3PDT switch!
Now this guitar has far more tonal variation, albeit, I wish it were a 22
fret not a 24 fret neck as it would place the neck pickup closer to the neck
for added warmth.
Carlos's wiring diagram has been posted to my gear page for those
interested. Post refin pic's will be posted shortly
Harry Jacobson
www.harryj.net
Jack Zucker
--
Experience a revolutionary way to approach the instrument.
Introducing Sheets of Sound for Guitar
"Let the music govern the way you play guitar instead of the guitar
governing the way you play music!"
Check it out at:
http://www.sheetsofsound.net
"Harry J" <nospam@harryjDOTnet> wrote in message
news:dPudnUNop9F...@comcast.com...
Carlos
> I want to thank a fellow group member, Carlos Lorenzo for his ability to
> take my wish list and create a diagram that would make it happen with just 1
> push/pull pot, a 4 pole 5 way switch, and a 3PDT switch!
And many thanks to you too for the fun I had with challenging project!
I really enjoyed it and it made me come up with ideas that I'm sure
will be very useful in my own projects.
I can't wait for the day you tell me you've just got this really nice
guitar with three humbuckers but "only" a dozen pickup combinations...
;-D
Carlos
Damian
work to get a guitar to work for you. When you first got the guitar,
were you expecting to undertake what seems to me to be a fairly
extensive project? If so, was it because you saw the potential in the
guitar or was it more of a case that you had the guitar and was
unhappy and this work was a progression to the type of sound that you
were after?
I looked at a Flat five X and the Flat Five yesterday and your
comments about the finish and sound were almost exactly what I found.
I was quite disappointed actually but then again I have very little
experience with guitars in general and basically non with non solid
body types.
Should I be expecting to have to undertake some sort of "customizing"
to get this type of guitar to work right?
Are semi hollows or hollow body guitars more sensitive to changes in
set up?
I see by your very impressive web site that you also have a heritage
535, do you have a preference for either guitar?
Thanks very much
Damian
"Harry J" <nospam@harryjDOTnet> wrote in message news:<dPudnUNop9F...@comcast.com>...
Harry J
"Damian" <wakai...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:79b921c8.04061...@posting.google.com...
> Hi Harry, from an inexperienced perspective this seems quite a bit of
> work to get a guitar to work for you. When you first got the guitar,
> were you expecting to undertake what seems to me to be a fairly
> extensive project? If so, was it because you saw the potential in the
> guitar or was it more of a case that you had the guitar and was
> unhappy and this work was a progression to the type of sound that you
> were after?
>
> I looked at a Flat five X and the Flat Five yesterday and your
> comments about the finish and sound were almost exactly what I found.
> I was quite disappointed actually but then again I have very little
> experience with guitars in general and basically non with non solid
> body types.
>
> Should I be expecting to have to undertake some sort of "customizing"
> to get this type of guitar to work right?
> Are semi hollows or hollow body guitars more sensitive to changes in
> set up?
>
> I see by your very impressive web site that you also have a heritage
> 535, do you have a preference for either guitar?
>
> Thanks very much
> Damian
Hi Damian,
Purchasing, and customizing guitars seems to have become a hobby of mine
lately. I Love both the work and the outcome. In addition to the electronics
mods, I have reshaped the neck contour, and rounded the fretboard edges on
most of my guitars for added comfort. I have also created hollow chambers in
my northern ash blue "strat", which reduced the weight, and improved the
resonance and warmth of the guitar substantially.
If I were not able to do this work myself, it would be far too costly, and
less than practical. I would recommend waiting until you find the instrument
that fits your needs with little to no mods.
I like to be able to get as many good tonal possibilities out of a guitar as
possible. The standard tonal variations on a 2 'bucker guitar are great, and
has satiated the masses for years. but I am always looking for more variety,
and have some time on my hands between students to make it happen. Once
again thanks to Carlos Lorenzo for not thinkin' I am totally wacked out with
these crazy mods like most of my friends! (till they hear them that is)
I like the versatility of a P.R.S. but find in many cases that the P.R.S.
can't quite nail the fatter Les Paul tone, so why not customize that Paul
and get all of the cool tonal possibilities without loosing the original
ones?
I find the Flat Five to be a very versatile guitar (particularly after my
pickup, and switching mods). It makes a great blues / rock guitar. This
guitar has great sustain, and very controllable harmonic feedback partially
due to the semi-hollow design.
It would not be my first choice for those looking for a deep warm jazz tone.
Don't get me wrong, it can get a very nice jazz tone, but there are far
better choices for that, particularly arch top guitars with 20 fret set
necks, allowing the neck pickup to be mounted far closer to the neck.(or
floating pickup mounted on the neck). The string through body design of the
Flat Five also helps to create a stronger attack as opposed to the mellower
attack that most arch tops have due to their tailpieces with greater string
length after the bridge. There is also the set neck verses bolt on neck
issue. I feel that Godin would have done well with a mahogany body and maple
neck instead of the reverse.
You asked: "Are semi hollows or hollow body guitars more sensitive to
changes in set up?" I'm not certain as to what you mean by this.
In regard to my Heritage 535. I was not blown away with this guitar in it's
stock form either. I did however see the potential. (see my long winded
harmony central posting for the 533)
I felt the Schaller pickups were thin a lifeless, and the Schaller roller
bridge robbed the guitar of warmth and sustain. They also used 250K pots
robbing the guitar of presence.
Changing the pickups, pots, and bridge greatly improved the guitar IMHO.
Heritage now offers these changes as upgrades.
As to a preference between the 2 guitars... apples, and oranges, each has
their own voice.
I have far more guitars than I deserve, There are far more talented
guitarists making great music on piece oh shit instruments.
A 12 step program for G.A.S. (gear acquisition syndrome) may be in order ...
but I enjoy what each of my guitars brings to the table. Hell... I am
expecting FedEx this afternoon :-) Long live Ebay!
Harry Jacobson
www.harryj.net
Les Cargill
> I was less than impressed with the stock Godin Flat five, but I knew a few
> upgrades would do the trick and it has.
>
<snip>
>
> Carlos's wiring diagram has been posted to my gear page for those
> interested. Post refin pic's will be posted shortly
>
> Harry Jacobson
> www.harryj.net
>
>
Does it then end up being a sorta 335ish thing, or
closer to a jazzbox? Or its own thing?
--
Les Cargill
Harry J
"Les Cargill" <lcar...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:WTkyc.4254$Di3...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Posting clips to my site now
HJ
Jack A. Zucker
> Hi Harry, from an inexperienced perspective this seems quite a bit of
> work to get a guitar to work for you. When you first got the guitar,
> were you expecting to undertake what seems to me to be a fairly
> extensive project? If so, was it because you saw the potential in the
> guitar or was it more of a case that you had the guitar and was
> unhappy and this work was a progression to the type of sound that you
> were after?
I didn't have to do any of this and I suspect neither did Harry. Harry
is a brilliant player and no doubt ended up with an axe that was head
and shoulders above a factory, production guitar but my Godin flat 5
sounded wonderful from the factory. There were no problems with the
finish. It was a bit nasally sounding, probably due to the 24 frets
(Yes, Pat Smith was right...). I would have probably replaced the
pickups but I doubt I'd have gone to the trouble of refinishing like
Harry did.
> I looked at a Flat five X and the Flat Five yesterday and your
> comments about the finish and sound were almost exactly what I found.
> I was quite disappointed actually but then again I have very little
> experience with guitars in general and basically non with non solid
> body types.
Weird. As I said - Every flat 5 I have played has been very well
finished.
> Should I be expecting to have to undertake some sort of "customizing"
> to get this type of guitar to work right?
> Are semi hollows or hollow body guitars more sensitive to changes in
> set up?
No but it's a 2nd tier guitar, Gibson, PRS, Hamer and others being up
at the top and then Godin and some other brands slightly underneath
and the price reflects that. For example, it's less than 1/2 the price
of a PRS Hollowbody so you shouldn't expect the same quality. Perhaps
you should look into the PRS?
> I see by your very impressive web site that you also have a heritage
> 535, do you have a preference for either guitar?
I'd like to hear Harry's 535. I'd also like Harry's views on upper
fret access. I thought the Heritage 535 had a better jazz sound than
Gibson's 335 but the upper fret access was poor.
Harry J
Harry Jacobson
www.harryj.net
Harry J
"Les Cargill" <lcar...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:WTkyc.4254$Di3...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
--------
Goin' with "it's own thing"
HJ
Carlos
> I want to thank a fellow group member, Carlos Lorenzo for his ability to
> take my wish list and create a diagram that would make it happen with just 1
> push/pull pot, a 4 pole 5 way switch, and a 3PDT switch!
And many thanks to you too for the fun I had with this challenging
project! I really enjoyed it and it made me come up with ideas that
I'm sure will be very useful for my own projects.
I can't wait for the day you tell me that you've just got this really
Carlos
As you said the 3 coils in series tone is to die for... I'm actually
going to have another look at the switching of my Koa Stratocloner and
see if I can get it in there! How about the hum? In theory you can
only get hum cancelling with an even number of coils, but I've found
that some times if you're lucky you can get it also with three, like
in an older version of my Squier Strat where I had the middle + south
coil of the bridge in parallel and this in series with the bridge
north coil. The sound wasn't too exciting but it was almost as quiet
as the bridge hb on its own.
Carlos
Harry J
"Carlos" <clor...@eutelsat.fr> wrote in message
news:bdab6169.04061...@posting.google.com...
There is a little of hum with the 3 coils, but not quite as much as the
standard single 60 cycle.
That is one sweet tone :-)
I used to have to go fishing in-between the clicks of my mega switch to get
that tone... now i can actually get it and use it live :-)
HJ
John S. Shinal
>I was less than impressed with the stock Godin Flat five, but I knew a few
>upgrades would do the trick and it has.
>
>The first thing I did was replaced the somewhat thin sounding stock pickups
>with Dimarzio Air Classic (designed for the bridge position) 8.04K
>resistance in the neck position for a tad more warmth and Air Norton in the
>bridge (12.6K resistance). This warmed up the tone a good deal.
So a bridge version Air Classic in the neck slot - could you
describe briefly how that sounds on clean tones ? I had been wondering
about that exact 'misapplication'.
;-D
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Harry J
"John S. Shinal" <jshinal_REMO...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:40d0f4f1....@text-east.newsfeeds.com...
> "Harry J" wrote:
>
> >I was less than impressed with the stock Godin Flat five, but I knew a
few
> >upgrades would do the trick and it has.
> >
> >The first thing I did was replaced the somewhat thin sounding stock
pickups
> >with Dimarzio Air Classic (designed for the bridge position) 8.04K
> >resistance in the neck position for a tad more warmth and Air Norton in
the
> >bridge (12.6K resistance). This warmed up the tone a good deal.
>
> So a bridge version Air Classic in the neck slot - could you
> describe briefly how that sounds on clean tones ? I had been wondering
> about that exact 'misapplication'.
>
> ;-D
>
Why describe? listen for yourself
Go to my web site-----> Gear page-----> Godin Flat five
Harry Jacobson
www.harryj.net