adventures in Guitarland
Jeff Vineburg
* Original To : All (1:2614/705)
So off we went to the Bee Three guitar show, in Valley Forge, PA, rumored to
be the largest show on the east coast (that shouldn't be too hard).
We paid our admission fee and I began to wander up and down the aisles, mad
with the fever of Guitar Acquisition Syndrome (GAS). I wasn't going to get
too excited because, as we remember, this is a `vintage' guitar show, so the
prices will be ridiculous, and I'm left-handed, so there won't be too many to
pick from.
I don't know how I did it, but I managed to pass this one up. It wasa beat to
trash Strat, with an old looking neck, and it looked as if a Fender decal was
applied after the fact. The gentleman at the booth told me it was TWENTY NINE
THOUSAND dollars because it was a `50 something with only a newer pickguard.
I told him it was out of my range.
I also passed on a very clean burst `63 Strat, which I felt I really *did*
need, as it's the same vintage as me. I had left my ten thousand dollar bill
at home and I wasn't driving back for it.
I did find a range of decent Les Pauls from the late 80's-early 90's between
$800-900. I got some cards, but I can't buy because I'm going to California
to look this week. I also saw Vinnie Moore at a booth. He was good.
Then I hit the jackpot. 2 recent Strats, a G&L Strat-style, 3 Les Pauls, and
a really nice PRS EG in *Sea Foam Green* of all colors. All left-handed! I
was like a pig in what pigs like to be in. I noticed that after I had started
to try out the guitars, it became more difficult to find room at the booth to
play. Later on my girlfriend made me aware of something. They were all
standing around, staring at me. I told her it was because they had never seen
a lefty PRS before. I wasn't plugged in, so no one could possibly hear, but
she told me they were all staring and saying `look at the southpaw.'
I had visions of `Hey Martha... come look at the space alien who just got off
this here spaceship!' Has no one ever seen a lefty before? Weird.
Anyway, I'm seriously considering the PRS. I know of two in existence and it
had a wonderful rubbery action. Ah well.... if it's still there when I get
back.......
The day's big score:
A copy of Vintage Guitar, a color Vintage magazine,and a laserdisc copy of
Stevie Ray Vaughan in Japan (excellent!) and Jimi at the Royal Albert Hall in
`69.
P.S. The right handed prices were waaay out of hand too.
Joe Hartley
>I don't know how I did it, but I managed to pass this one up. It wasa beat to
>trash Strat, with an old looking neck, and it looked as if a Fender decal was
>applied after the fact. The gentleman at the booth told me it was TWENTY NINE
>THOUSAND dollars because it was a `50 something with only a newer pickguard.
>I told him it was out of my range.
>
>I also passed on a very clean burst `63 Strat, which I felt I really *did*
>need, as it's the same vintage as me. I had left my ten thousand dollar bill
>at home and I wasn't driving back for it.
I'm sorry, but I can barely conceive of a guitar on the face of the earth
that's worth $10K, and if there was one, it would be something like
D'Angelico's best, most certainly not a Strat.
The gent who had the $29K Strat should be arrested for fraud; I don't care
if it had been owned by Buddy Holly, Jimi Hendrix, Eric Clapton AND SRV,
there ain't a Strat in the world worth $29K.
---
===============================================================================
Joe Hartley | j...@cadre.com - Whenever you find that you are on the
Cadre Technologies | side of the majority, it is time to reform. - M. Twain
222 Richmond St. | --------------------------------------------------------
Providence, RI 02903 | Overman 1st Class - the Kilgore Trout Memorial Clench
(401) 351-5950 x266 | of the Church of the SubGenius
===============================================================================
Mike Porter
>I don't know how I did it, but I managed to pass this one up. It wasa beat to
>trash Strat, with an old looking neck, and it looked as if a Fender decal was
>applied after the fact. The gentleman at the booth told me it was TWENTY NINE
>THOUSAND dollars because it was a `50 something with only a newer pickguard.
>I told him it was out of my range.
>I also passed on a very clean burst `63 Strat, which I felt I really *did*
>need, as it's the same vintage as me. I had left my ten thousand dollar bill
>at home and I wasn't driving back for it.
This CRAP is for the birds!! They are asking FAR too much money for this vin-
tage nonsense, some of which is total doggie-doo, and expensive only because
of its age, NOT its quality! If I were looking for the perfect guitar, and had
a decent amount of cash to work with, I'd hop right down to my favourite luthier
and have a custom model (actually two) made to my specs. A good custom-made
guitar can be had for less than $2000(US), whereas these goobers are asking
twice that for an old production model. Even now, I do my own custom work, and
come up with guitars that do the job for me BETTER than a vintage Strat or Paul,
for less than $1000(US). I'm sorry, but I've been to some of these shows, as
well as George Gruhn's shop, and I am NOT impressed. These guys need to get
real; what propoganda...
---Michael...
rdou...@hoasys.isd1.tafensw.edu.au
[zap]
> This CRAP is for the birds!! They are asking FAR too much money for this vin-
> tage nonsense, some of which is total doggie-doo, and expensive only because
> of its age, NOT its quality!
I think you've sorta missed the point of collecting things.
Roger
=====
Mike Porter
No, I missed the point of the outrageous prices charged for these instruments.
The point of my article (the rest of it that was deleted) is that for less than
the price of one of these "vintage" production models, you can have a luthier
construct a beautiful handmade instrument to your exact specs. I was speaking
to PLAYERS, not collectors, since I don't understand why a collector pays that
kind of money for these things, anyway. THAT was the point, from a player's
point of view.
---Michael...
rdou...@hoasys.isd1.tafensw.edu.au
guitars? Sure, if you're not a collector there's little point in buying a
vintage guitar rather than a new one of comparable quality. I'd have thought
that was obvious. I'm not sure about your price equation, though. Have you seen
any prices quoted for the "beautiful handmade instruments to your exact specs."
of which you speak?
Not saying you're wrong - I've no idea - just wonder if you can quote figures,
or are just guessing.
Roger
=====
Mike Porter
I guess I just miss the point of guitar collecting. Most people are interested
in a painting, not the paintbrush the artist used. And the paintbrush CERTAINLY
never sells for more than the painting! Yet it is so with guitars and the music
world.
My biggest beef is how these "great-sounding instruments" are shut up forever;
the very reason they're supposed to be collectible, i.e. their "voice", is stilled
and silenced forever. The creation is not getting to live out its purpose.
As far as custom creations, I *have* done some research into getting a custom
instrument, from little-known local luthiers as well as some nationally famous
ones like Michael Tobias. In almost all cases, the custom instruments were priced
anywhere from $1500US to $3000US, which is STILL less or equal to most vintage
instruments. These did NOT include extremely fancy woodwork or inlay, but neither
did the vintage guitars. These DID include my choice of woods, shape, pickups,
hardware, neck width and radius, etc.
One other point is that I believe the inflated vintage market helps to raise
prices on new instruments, as well. If a flame-top '59 Les Paul did not command
something incredible like $15000US, I don't think new Les Pauls would cost quite
as much as they do, either.
Plus, I've visited George Gruhn's shop, and I was CERTAINLY not impressed with
the ragged guitars I saw, the incredibly high prices, or the snobbish sales staff.
If the vintage market includes such as these as the norm, I'm happy to be outside
of it. I understand there will be differing viewpoints; that's as it should be.
Otherwise we'd all be playing the exact same song on a Telecaster at once. Ugh;
I shudder at the thought! 8^) Viva le diversity.
---Michael...
rdou...@hoasys.isd1.tafensw.edu.au
[previous discussion deleted]
> I guess I just miss the point of guitar collecting. Most people are interested
> in a painting, not the paintbrush the artist used. And the paintbrush CERTAINLY
> never sells for more than the painting! Yet it is so with guitars and the music
> world.
Not really a fair comparison - a guitar can be a thing of beauty in its own
right, and it SHOULD be the beauty and quality of the craftsmanship that makes
it valuable (as well as being a fine instrument musically). Buying
"memorabilia" (Jimi Hendrix's guitar or Elvis's Blue Suede Shoes) is another
issue altogether. And I bet you'd find someone to pay a king's ransom for Van
Gogh's paintbrush.
> My biggest beef is how these "great-sounding instruments" are shut up forever;
> the very reason they're supposed to be collectible, i.e. their "voice", is stilled
> and silenced forever. The creation is not getting to live out its purpose.
I certainly have no sympathy with people who lock guitars up and don't play
them. I'm perfectly willing to give any unplayed guitar a good home :-)
> As far as custom creations, I *have* done some research into getting a custom
> instrument, from little-known local luthiers as well as some nationally famous
> ones like Michael Tobias. In almost all cases, the custom instruments were priced
> anywhere from $1500US to $3000US, which is STILL less or equal to most vintage
> instruments. These did NOT include extremely fancy woodwork or inlay, but neither
> did the vintage guitars. These DID include my choice of woods, shape, pickups,
> hardware, neck width and radius, etc.
OK I bow to your superior knowledge. The point is well made.
> One other point is that I believe the inflated vintage market helps to raise
> prices on new instruments, as well. If a flame-top '59 Les Paul did not command
> something incredible like $15000US, I don't think new Les Pauls would cost quite
> as much as they do, either.
Possibly, although IMO the price of new Les Pauls is not outrageous, and you
can get a second hand (but not 1959!) Les Paul for a reasonable price. A mate
of mine got one in "mint" condition, and a very nice instrument, for about
$1200 (Australian), I think. Not from a vintage guitar dealer though!
> Plus, I've visited George Gruhn's shop, and I was CERTAINLY not impressed with
> the ragged guitars I saw, the incredibly high prices, or the snobbish sales staff.
> If the vintage market includes such as these as the norm, I'm happy to be outside
> of it. I understand there will be differing viewpoints; that's as it should be.
> Otherwise we'd all be playing the exact same song on a Telecaster at once. Ugh;
> I shudder at the thought! 8^) Viva le diversity.
Amen to that.
> ---Michael...
Roger Douglas
=============
Vintage guitars played for a modest fee.
Veronica Rusnak
>In article <1994Aug4.1...@mlb.semi.harris.com>, m...@suntan.mlb.semi.harris.com (Mike Porter) writes:
>
>[previous discussion deleted]
>> I guess I just miss the point of guitar collecting. Most people are interested
>> in a painting, not the paintbrush the artist used. And the paintbrush CERTAINLY
>> never sells for more than the painting! Yet it is so with guitars and the music
>> world.
>
>Not really a fair comparison - a guitar can be a thing of beauty in its own
>right, and it SHOULD be the beauty and quality of the craftsmanship that makes
>it valuable (as well as being a fine instrument musically). Buying
>"memorabilia" (Jimi Hendrix's guitar or Elvis's Blue Suede Shoes) is another
>issue altogether. And I bet you'd find someone to pay a king's ransom for Van
>Gogh's paintbrush.
>
>> My biggest beef is how these "great-sounding instruments" are shut up forever;
>> the very reason they're supposed to be collectible, i.e. their "voice", is stilled
>> and silenced forever. The creation is not getting to live out its purpose.
>
>I certainly have no sympathy with people who lock guitars up and don't play
>them. I'm perfectly willing to give any unplayed guitar a good home :-)
Just my .02 -- actually it's Pete Townshend's .02 (not word for word, but this
quote has stuck in my head for many years) "I don't polish my guitar every day.
I don't keep them in maximum security storage. I don't worship my guitar or
hold it in awe of itself. I don't value it above my life or the lives of my
friends. I PLAY the fuckin' thing."
veronica