matching game -- which guitar+amp for these songs?
Qzectb
models) and a POD XT Live (with a zillion amp models), I'd like to
experiment with guitar+amp combinations that are close to what were
used on the original recordings of many of the songs my cover band
plays. In many cases, I think I know the guitar but not the amp
(e.g., Knopfler uses a Strat, but which amp?), or vice versa (e.g.,
Tom Petty's lead guitarist plays into Vox AC-30s, if I'm not
mistaken, but with which guitars on which songs?).
So just for fun, I thought I'd invite you netizens to fill in any
combinations you're pretty sure of. I probably could look a lot of
these up on the web, but it would take days, and I like the idea of
harnessing the collective knowledge of the 'net, and maybe someone
else will be interested in the answers as well. Although I'm less
concerned about identifying effects, neck vs bridge pu, etc.(most of
them I think I can figure out), any hints on those will be welcome.
Also, I'm interested mainly in the "signature" guitar sound of the
song, which is usually (though not always) the lead part. And if an
unusual model of amp or guitar was used, it might be helpful to
suggest which more common model would come close.
So here goes (in no particular order):
Early Beatles - Daytripper, Twist and Shout, I Feel Fine, Hard Days
Night, I Saw Her Standing There
Late Beatles - Back in the USSR, Birthday, Revolution, Come Together
CCR - Born on the Bayou, Proud Mary, Suzy Q, Green River, Fortunate
Son
Cars - Bye Bye Love, Gotta Lot on My Head, Just What I Needed,
Dangerous Type
Steppenwolf - Born to be Wild
Rolling Stones - The Last Time, Get Off Of My Cloud, Satisfaction,
Jumping Jack Flash, HonkyTonk Woman, Sympathy for the Devil
Cream - Sunshine of Your Love
Aerosmith - Dream On (lead)
Eagles - Hotel California (both leads)
Elvis - Jailhouse Rock - Elvis Presley
Tommy Tutone - Jenny (867-5309)
Steve Miller - Jet Airliner
Doobie Brothers - Listen to the Music
SRV - Mary Had a Little Lamb
The Police - Message in a Bottle, Roxanne
Dire Straits - Money for Nothing
U2 - Pride, Sunday Bloody Sunday
Nirvana - Smells Like Teen Spirit, Come As You Are
Stray Cats - Stray Cat Strut
Lynyrd Skynyrd - Sweet Home Alabama (clean and lead)
The Eagles - Take it Easy, Tequila Sunrise, Peaceful Easy Feeling,
Hotel California (both leads - Walsh and whoever)
Tom Petty -Refugee, Break Down
AC/DC - Back in Black
Keith Adams
could be playing through the exact same equipment and not sound the same.
Each time a song is played its a one time thing. Unique in its self. You
might be able to get close to the original sound but who knows whats gonna
give it to you? They may have been playing a Gibson through an old Rick amp
but you find the sound on your Fender through a Marshall setting? Sometimes
a Vox AC30 doesnt sound like you'd expect it to. The amps and effects with
preset sound emulations are only vague generalizations at best.
"Qzectb" <qze...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1184884732.9...@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
RichL
below:
"Qzectb" <qze...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1184884732.9...@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> Now that I'm a proud owner of both a Variax 600 (with a zillion guitar
> models) and a POD XT Live (with a zillion amp models), I'd like to
> experiment with guitar+amp combinations that are close to what were
> used on the original recordings of many of the songs my cover band
> plays. In many cases, I think I know the guitar but not the amp
> (e.g., Knopfler uses a Strat, but which amp?), or vice versa (e.g.,
> Tom Petty's lead guitarist plays into Vox AC-30s, if I'm not
> mistaken, but with which guitars on which songs?).
>
> So just for fun, I thought I'd invite you netizens to fill in any
> combinations you're pretty sure of. I probably could look a lot of
> these up on the web, but it would take days, and I like the idea of
> harnessing the collective knowledge of the 'net, and maybe someone
> else will be interested in the answers as well. Although I'm less
> concerned about identifying effects, neck vs bridge pu, etc.(most of
> them I think I can figure out), any hints on those will be welcome.
>
> Also, I'm interested mainly in the "signature" guitar sound of the
> song, which is usually (though not always) the lead part. And if an
> unusual model of amp or guitar was used, it might be helpful to
> suggest which more common model would come close.
>
>
> So here goes (in no particular order):
>
> Early Beatles -
Daytripper: Gibson ES-345 (George)
Twist and Shout:: Gretsch Duo Jet (George)
I Feel Fine: Two different "signature" sounds here, one is John using his
Gibson J160E acoustic with a pickup in the sound hole, this is for the
feedback parts and some of the main riff; the other is George with his
Gretsch Tennessean 6119 doing the main lead part and other riff repeats.
Hard Days Night: Rickenbacker 360/12 (George)
I Saw Her Standing There: Duo Jet (George)
>
> Late Beatles
Back in the USSR - Fender Tele (George)
Birthday - Epiphone Casino (Paul)
Revolution - The version on Past Masters 2 has John using his Epiphone
Casino and George with a Les Paul Standard. The one called "Revolution 1"
on the White Album has John playing both his casino and a Strat.
Come Together - John played the Casino, George the Les Paul.
Source:
http://www.beatlesgear.tk
DGDevin
news:469fec19$0$4657$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
> Get a clue man. It aint gonna happen. The guys you hear on the recordings
> could be playing through the exact same equipment and not sound the same.
So many people assume particular artists were playing certain guitars
through certain amps on famous recordings and often it wasn't that way at
all. Hendrix might be associated with Marshall amps but in the studio he
often used Fenders. Many folks associate Jimmy Page with Les Paul guitars
yet on recordings he might very well have been using a Telecaster.
Plus along the way a lot of early stompboxes and other gadgets were thrown
into the mix, plus the studios and the mics and various recording techniques
like putting an amp in an empty fireplace with the microphone somewhere down
the hall had an impact on the sound--how does anyone expect to duplicate all
that?
Of course on those occasions when somebody finds the right amp and the right
guitar, oops, they still sound nothing like the original. Different players
with different brains and different fingers, not to mention the passage of
thirty or forty years time, well what else do they expect?
> The amps and effects with preset sound emulations are only vague
> generalizations at best.
The digital simulations get a little better with each generation, but
they're still simulations and they're being sold with a lot of marketing
bullshit. This belief that pushing the right buttons on some Line 6 product
will suddenly make the player sound just like George Harrison on some 60s
Beatles song or just like Pete Townshend in 1970 is an unfunny joke. Eric
Clapton doesn't even sound like he did with Cream anymore, why should anyone
else expect to be able to duplicate his sound from the late 60s? That isn't
to say it can't be done, yet the money thrown into digital trickery would be
better spend on lots and lots of strings and a few tube amps of markedly
different designs and lots and lots of playing time. You can push buttons
all you want, none of them will transform you into Jimi Hendrix or Jeff
Beck, although you can spend lots of money trying that approach.
prs geek
> models) and a POD XT Live (with a zillion amp models), I'd like to
> experiment with guitar+amp combinations that are close to what were
> used on the original recordings of many of the songs my cover band
> plays. In many cases, I think I know the guitar but not the amp
> (e.g., Knopfler uses a Strat, but which amp?), or vice versa (e.g.,
> Tom Petty's lead guitarist plays into Vox AC-30s, if I'm not
> mistaken, but with which guitars on which songs?).
>
> So just for fun, I thought I'd invite you netizens to fill in any
> combinations you're pretty sure of. I probably could look a lot of
> these up on the web, but it would take days, and I like the idea of
> harnessing the collective knowledge of the 'net, and maybe someone
> else will be interested in the answers as well. Although I'm less
> concerned about identifying effects, neck vs bridge pu, etc.(most of
> them I think I can figure out), any hints on those will be welcome.
>
> Also, I'm interested mainly in the "signature" guitar sound of the
> song, which is usually (though not always) the lead part. And if an
> unusual model of amp or guitar was used, it might be helpful to
> suggest which more common model would come close.
Snip tunes:
Instead of asking what guitars and amps, you could probably do a LOT better
if you sat down with the CD's and start switching amp models till you come
close to one and tweak it. That's what I'd do, but yer not me.
Those models are just models. Not to mention all the different guitars mics
and rooms that were used on the recordings. If you try and sound different
every song, your gonna find yourself very frustrated on stage without an
identity of your own.
I think you're overthinking the tool vs. the player here. You're amp may be
capable of doing what you want, but your original post shows that you'll
never figure it out on your own which is what it's going to take to "master"
the thing in the first place.
Good luck man...
--
Jeff
Lamneth
"prs geek" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:OVTni.11942$rL1....@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...
Very good points. I know when I was using modeling to get sounds I had to
pare it down to a really good AC/DC sound that I used for all classic rock,
a good metal sound and a Fender clean took care of the rest.
I find now that just getting "my sound" is the most important because it's
one of the things that helps me to play well. I do still use modeling but
only for studio stuff here at home. For that it's great. For live stuff I
found after wasting too much money on modelers that it's not worth it in the
end.
My 2 cents
Rufus
I think I've always been chasing "my" sounds...and now like you folk
I've discovered that I finally have the amps I like, I like what I play
through them, and modelers be damned...I have to agree - modelers can
have their place, but 'nuff is 'nuff.
--
- Rufus
qzectb
Good freakin' grief .. why does something so simple have to turn into
yet another occasion for pious lectures?
Here, let's try this: I'm not asking because *I* want to duplicate
those sounds (because the gods of tone would certainly smite me for my
presumptiousness), but out of pure, scholarly, historical interest.
I'm writing a book. Yeah, that's it. Does that make it easier?
Those who are willing to humor me, please accept my gratitude. Those
who aren't, well, .. never mind.
qzectb
> Instead of asking what guitars and amps, you could probably do a LOT better
> if you sat down with the CD's and start switching amp models till you come
> close to one and tweak it. That's what I'd do, but yer not me.
I've got 50 songs, a couple dozen amp models, a couple dozen guitar
models, a few hundred distinct combinations of the latter to consider
for each song even before tweaking anything. All I'm asking for are
good starting points.
> every song, your gonna find yourself very frustrated on stage without an
> identity of your own.
With due respect to those who DO want to create an identity of their
own, not everyone has that goal when covering other people's songs.
Mine is to evoke recognition. I don't think there's anything
dishonorable in that.
When I play my own improvised solos, whether as part of a cover or
not, I have my own identity for that, and that's good enough for me.
> I think you're overthinking the tool vs. the player here. You're amp may be
> capable of doing what you want, but your original post shows that you'll
> never figure it out on your own which is what it's going to take to "master"
> the thing in the first place.
I've figured out a hell of a lot on my own, and sometimes I just get
tired of doing things the hard way, when there's a chance someone who
knows something can help me narrow down the search.
RichL
news:1184901749.2...@m3g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
Yeah, I have to say I thought some of the responses were over the top.
I just assumed you wanted the information and didn't really care how you
were going to apply it. Happened to have that beatlesgear web site at my
fingertips.
Cornelius J Rat
"Qzectb" wrote
> (e.g., Knopfler uses a Strat, but which amp?)
On "Money for nothing" I know the video shows his trademark Strat but when I
saw him on the "Brothers In Arms tour" he used something Steinberger-y, if I
remember correctly.
On Early Beatles, if you want to use that 12-string emulation, do "Ticket To
Ride"!
Squier
I can't help too much here as to what CCR actually used but there
was a PBS Special on that had Fogerty and his band playing all the
Creedence stuff. He used mostly 3 guitars for the entire 2 hours.
He used a Stratocaster and 2 Les Pauls. On more rockin songs like
Sweet Hitchhiker he used the Les Paul. On Proud Mary he used the Strat.
On Fortunate Son he used the Les Paul. And the rhythm guitarist used
a Les Paul too (I never saw him change guitars). And the third guitarist
was using a Stratocaster. The bass player used what appeared to be
a maple necked Fender Jazz bass. Fogerty mostly used Les Pauls though.
One was set up as a slide player and the other as regular action guitar.
I only saw him switch over to the Strat for 2 or 3 songs.
The amps used were mostly mixed heads/cabs and combos. You could
see the mics in front of them. I have no idea what Fogerty was
actually plugged into. But the amps used were Marshall heads/cabs
and there were Fender Twins which were easy to spot on the stage.
So... Les Pauls and a Strat and Marshall something (I am not good
on indentifying Marshall amps) and Fender. You can't miss the
Fender Twin combo amps. ah well - Have roadie will travel.
btw it was a great concert and even over the TV you could tell
how good it sounded live. Absolute pros at work. You could have
easily recorded an album from that concert - really tight band - and no
hokey song endings either. Nice tight endings to the songs.
But don't try to model Fogerty's vocal style. That's probably
not in the modeler. ;) Actually to me - without Fogerty's vocals
you wouldn't have CCR. There's something really distinctive about it.
>
> Cars - Bye Bye Love, Gotta Lot on My Head, Just What I Needed,
> Dangerous Type
>
> Steppenwolf - Born to be Wild
>
> Rolling Stones - The Last Time, Get Off Of My Cloud, Satisfaction,
> Jumping Jack Flash, HonkyTonk Woman, Sympathy for the Devil
I've seen videos of Keith playing Jumpin Jack Flash with
a Les Paul and another video of a concert of him playing on a telecaster.
Same song and nearly sounded the same.
One the video of him playing the song on a les Paul it was some
archival footage that was a long time ago. And you could see the
amp (which was huge) had the Ampeg logo on it.
The more modern video of a concert I could not see the amp
being used but you could easily see the Telecaster.
I could not see where the pup switches were selected (what pickup being used
for either of the videos/film)
The thing is he might have played in the studio a different
set up than whatever guitar he happened to be playing live.
I think prolly Keith would sound like Keith no matter what
he is playing. I think he is one of those musicians that
you feel a vibe from the way he plays and you could do a passable
rendition no matter what guitar or amp you are using.
When people hear signature Stones songs and riffs - that's all
they gotta hear - as long as you get the vibe going - all that matters.
Andy
> Good freakin' grief .. why does something so simple have to turn into
> yet another occasion for pious lectures?
>
> Here, let's try this: I'm not asking because *I* want to duplicate
> those sounds (because the gods of tone would certainly smite me for my
> presumptiousness), but out of pure, scholarly, historical interest.
> I'm writing a book. Yeah, that's it. Does that make it easier?
Well, yes. As long as you're using vintage paper.
Cheers,
Andy.
prs geek
"qzectb" <qze...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1184902440.9...@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
>> Instead of asking what guitars and amps, you could probably do a LOT
>> better
>> if you sat down with the CD's and start switching amp models till you
>> come
>> close to one and tweak it. That's what I'd do, but yer not me.
>
> I've got 50 songs, a couple dozen amp models, a couple dozen guitar
> models, a few hundred distinct combinations of the latter to consider
> for each song even before tweaking anything. All I'm asking for are
> good starting points.
OK.. I didn't mean to be so blunt. But I've been doing bands for many years.
I wanted to get close but never saw the need to match a tone. People just
won't be able to tell the difference.
>> every song, your gonna find yourself very frustrated on stage without an
>> identity of your own.
>
> With due respect to those who DO want to create an identity of their
> own, not everyone has that goal when covering other people's songs.
> Mine is to evoke recognition. I don't think there's anything
> dishonorable in that.
Neither do I, I just think you can spend a lot of time and effort that most
people won't appreciate. I mean, unless you can play exactly like the
original part, what's the use? Then, you'll have the right sound but can't
play it right. I just think a guy who could note for note these songs could
probably figure out what POD rig to choose for the parts. Shoot man, you
could end up with 100 patches. That's too many for a gig, IMHO.
I think playing the part well is WAY more important than nailing the "tone".
> When I play my own improvised solos, whether as part of a cover or
> not, I have my own identity for that, and that's good enough for me.
>
>> I think you're overthinking the tool vs. the player here. You're amp may
>> be
>> capable of doing what you want, but your original post shows that you'll
>> never figure it out on your own which is what it's going to take to
>> "master"
>> the thing in the first place.
>
> I've figured out a hell of a lot on my own, and sometimes I just get
> tired of doing things the hard way, when there's a chance someone who
> knows something can help me narrow down the search.
I understand... I was a little blunt, but I was trying to be realistic.
Obviously, what's realistic to you isn't to me. ;-)
Carry on and good luck.
--
Jeff
RichL
news:200720070551505436%squ...@strats.net...
Actually, back in the days when he was with CCR, Fogarty used a Gretsch
Tennessean for some songs and a Ric for others.
Squier
thanks RichL I didn't know that.
So the amazing thing is that in that PBS TV concert special
playing the les paul and strat - you would still know immediately
you were listening to CCR songs (and of course Fogerty's vocals).
Different sounding but still the same style of playing and phrasing.
The ending song was a subtle (well maybe
not so subtle) stance on the Iran war -- the closer was "fortunate son"
and the people went wild - really rocked out on this one.
thanks again for the info.
Rich Koerner
You forgot the Fender Bass VI on that tune.
It was also used here too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXG83p2nkHw
George plays the Bass VI.
> Birthday - Epiphone Casino (Paul)
> Revolution - The version on Past Masters 2 has John using his Epiphone
> Casino and George with a Les Paul Standard. The one called "Revolution 1"
> on the White Album has John playing both his casino and a Strat.
> Come Together - John played the Casino, George the Les Paul.
>
> Source:
> http://www.beatlesgear.tk
--
Regards,
Rich Koerner,
Time Electronics.
http://www.timeelect.com
Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering,
Music & Studio Production,
Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers
http://www.timeelect.com/mahavishnu.htm
http://www.timeelect.com/ws-99.htm
http://www.timeelect.com/livesound.htm
http://www.timeelect.com/credits-acc.html
http://www.timeelect.com/road-2.htm
http://www.timeelect.com/Elliott.htm
http://www.timeelect.com/RichAmps.htm
http://www.timeelect.com/Custinst.htm
http://www.timeelect.com/Custamp.htm
http://www.timeelect.com/400-PS-IDX.htm
Al
> combinations you're pretty sure of. I probably could look a lot of
> these up on the web, but it would take days
Just spend the time dude, nobody gives a shit about open-ended questions
like this.
Oh, while I'm here, please recommended the best color [sic] carpet for my
friends apartment.
Next ...
Al.
JoeT
When I read this I thought, narrowing this list down is a job for
guitargeek.com. I looked there and was amazed to find pretty much only Eric
Clapton and Angus young's rigs listed out of all of these bands. Bummer.
joe
Rich Koerner
qzectb wrote:
>
> Good freakin' grief .. why does something so simple have to turn into
> yet another occasion for pious lectures?
>
> Here, let's try this: I'm not asking because *I* want to duplicate
> those sounds (because the gods of tone would certainly smite me for my
> presumptiousness), but out of pure, scholarly, historical interest.
> I'm writing a book. Yeah, that's it. Does that make it easier?
Well, if that's the case, you are going to have to go back to the time when these guitars, basses,
and amps put their sonic signatures in the music.
You are going to have to identify them, and define specifically each and every one of them by model
and brand and manufacturer through their musical time line.
It starts in the '50s.
If you do that, you will see that it's because of this time line that this modeling is only really
effective for a portion of that time line to the present.
For example, in what year had Fender defined the sound of their guitars in what styles of music.
Likewise, their amps.
Likewise, Gibson, Ampeg, Vox, Selmer, Sunn, Acoustic, Peavey, Marshall, Kustom, etc... not every
company had an impact on the music.
However, this only works for a small portion of the time line. The sonic identity of the products
starts to fade as the time line goes on because the amp manufacturers tried to make amps that do
everything the other amps do.
So what road does that take us down in the time line of the sounds of electric instruments in the
musical time line?
What sits at the end of this road waiting for us?
Modeling amps by different manufacture that all produce the SAME THING?
LOL, like the current amp lines of tube amps from today's manufacturers already sit on the time line
without obvious sonic destination between them.
Once you see and understand this picture, you will conclude how the amp manufactures shot themselves
in the foot, and are responsible for the sounds of the music.
You can't always blame the artist who just doesn't have the tools to make the sonic pleasantries
music should have for average listener's ears.
mirt54
>
> - Show quoted text -
Clarification. With a few notable exceptions, such as Suzie Q, I put
a Spell on You, I Heard it Through the Grapevine, and a few others,
ALL of CCR's big hits and classics were penned by Fogerty. Pretty
much with the recording of "Bayou Country", John was kinda like
Townshend, where he would bring in his new songs, all instruments pre
recorded by himself, and say basically 'this is the way the song will
sound'. By then, Tom, John's brother had already left, frustrated by
lack of creative input after the recording of Cosmo and Pendulum. Stu
Cook and Doug Clifford insisted on having some input, so on Mardi
Gras, John agreed, but said 'you guys have to come up with two-thirds
of the songs'. John contributed Sweethitchiker, Someday Never Comes,
and Lookin' for a Reason. Stu and Doug songs all pretty much sucked,
and Mardi Gras stands as by far the worst studio CCR album, non "best-
of", that is. That was the last album by the group. John played all
instruments on his Centerfield solo album, and also on his album of
country classics "The Blue Ridge Rangers". The cover of the Blue
Ridge Ranger record originally did not say John Fogerty, just 5
silhouettes of John himself on the front, and the title, Blue Ridge
Rangers. You had to look on the back to see "produced and arranged by
John Fogerty" to know it was him...unless you HEARD the "voice" on the
record. Then, of course, you'd immediately recognize his vocal. Great
version of Jambalaya on that record, BTW. Also, new Fogerty album due
out in the fall, called "Revival", with a song called "Creedence
Song". Should be interesting, if you are a fan, I guess, like me. If
you are referring to the PBS "Live by Request" show, I was in the
audience for that show. Cheers, Marty
qzectb
> Song". Should be interesting, if you are a fan, I guess, like me. If
> you are referring to the PBS "Live by Request" show, I was in the
> audience for that show. Cheers, Marty
Fogerty came out with a live album not too long ago, with great
versionse of a lot of old CCR material, plus a couple newer ones
(Centerfield, Premonition? ). Is this album in any way related to the
PBS show? It's a great album. At some point, he talks to the
audience about how he's using the very same amp as he used for
Woodstock .. "the FIRST Woodstock!" But he doesn't say what it
is.
In some ways, I like his sound on the live album better than on the
original recordings.
mirt54
That was the Premonition live in the studio CD/DVD from 1998 I think.
The DVD is out of print in the US. But no, the PBS special was in
2004, I believe, because I have a VHS copy of it, and I'm actually
pictured on a camera "pan" of the audience. IMO, the versions of
Centerfield and Hot Rod Heart on Premonition are better than their
studio versions, and that's not usually the case, as we all know.
Fogerty admits "punching up" the live recordings subsequently before
they were sold retail, as he says, "like all those other guys do" .
But still, they ROCK. Hot Rod Heart BTW is a lost gem in my
opinion...great, great tune. Marty
qzectb
> Just spend the time dude, nobody gives a shit about open-ended questions
> like this.
So you presume to speak for everyone?
There's nothing open-ended about it. One song = 1 guitar + 1 amp.
You either know what they probably were or you don't. No opinionating
or philosophizing required.
> Oh, while I'm here, please recommended the best color [sic] carpet for my
> friends apartment.
Blue. Now sod off. Thank you.
mirt54
Go with the baby-shit brown color, dude
>
> Blue. Now sod off. Thank you.
Don't pay attention to some of the folks here, it's best to just
ignore their posts. I always fascinates me that they take the time to
post, but really don't "share" any useful. Marty
You Are a STUPID SHIT
will get you there.
C Gattman
> Lynyrd Skynyrd - Sweet Home Alabama (clean and lead)
Les Paul/Marshall and Les Paul/Marshall (They just played an outdoor
concert almost within earshot of my house on Wednesday. Rained like hell.)
> AC/DC - Back in Black
Gibson SG/Marshall. Marshalls are so hotrodded and tweaked and matched
with cabs and speakers that it's not practical to say "Plexi" or "JMP",
although a JCM900 or 2000 sound probably wouldn't have the same vintage
feel.
>CCR - Born on the Bayou, Proud Mary, Suzy Q, Green River, Fortunate Son
Fender Stratocaster, Blues DeVille (probably not the same amp, but you'll
get the right sound.)
> Late Beatles - Back in the USSR, Birthday, Revolution, Come Together
Semihollow electric, VOX amp?
-c
C Gattman
"qzectb" <qze...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1184902440.9...@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>
>> Instead of asking what guitars and amps, you could probably do a LOT
>> better
>> if you sat down with the CD's and start switching amp models till you
>> come
>> close to one and tweak it. That's what I'd do, but yer not me.
>
> I've got 50 songs, a couple dozen amp models, a couple dozen guitar
> models, a few hundred distinct combinations of the latter to consider
> for each song even before tweaking anything. All I'm asking for are
> good starting points.
Yes. I took the post to mean, what's a good guitar plus amp for the songs,
not what guitar/amp did they play. Fodder for discussion.
Man, the more processing I add, the more I wish I had my simple stompbox
chain back. Then when I switch to my stompbox chain, I end up going back to
a floor processor. Vicious cycle. Yesterday I found a stereo delay I'd
already replaced because it just disappeared from my inventory years ago.
Went on stompabout I suppose.
-c
JoeT
>
Al groggily wiped at the strand drool spanning the distance from his chin to
his keyboard and mumbled the following:
>> Just spend the time dude, nobody gives a shit about open-ended questions
>> like this.
>
> So you presume to speak for everyone?
>
Since he can only speak for himself, we're left to assume he's nobody.
Jon
> Fogerty ... used mostly 3 guitars for the entire 2 hours.
> He used a Stratocaster and 2 Les Pauls. On more rockin songs like
> Sweet Hitchhiker he used the Les Paul. On Proud Mary he used the Strat.
> On Fortunate Son he used the Les Paul.
I think the Les Paul for "Proud Mary" is tuned down a whole step.
DGDevin
>
> I think playing the part well is WAY more important than nailing the
> "tone".
Ding, ding, ding -- we have a winner.
Qzectb
Two completely unrelated issues. "I think having wheels on my car is
WAY more important than getting good gas mileage." Duh.
Yes, I work on playing the part well. Last night, I played most of
the songs mentioned at a wedding, and it went well. Not only did we
get a $2000 gig fee, but they tipped us $200 on top of that. And
we've got a pair of gigs worth $4500 (combined) coming up in a couple
of weekends. So I don't lose sleep over whether the folks who take
me to task in this thread can play the parts better than I do (even if
some of them undoubtedly can).
Oh, and I used the Variax 600 for the first time, and it was great.
Feel was almost like my Strat, but with the difference that I could
get Strat, Tele, LP, Rick 360/12, and acoustic sounds at the flick of
a switch. (No, I didn't use the banjo or sitar models, and I probably
never will). Sound guy volunteered that he really like how the Variax
sounded in the mix. The one thing that gave me minor problems was
that the thing came strung with 10s, and I'm used to 9s. I'll
probably stick with them now.
Qzectb
> > Sweet Hitchhiker he used the Les Paul. On Proud Mary he used the Strat.
>
> I think the Les Paul for "Proud Mary" is tuned down a whole step.
Okay, we have a disagreement: LP or Strat on "Proud Mary"? I've been
using a Strat, and it sounds pretty close to me.
MG
>> Qzectb <qze...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Now that I'm a proud owner of both a Variax 600 (with a zillion guitar
>> models) and a POD XT Live (with a zillion amp models), I'd like to
>> experiment with guitar+amp combinations that are close to what were
>> used on the original recordings of many of the songs my cover band
>> plays. In many cases, I think I know the guitar but not the amp
>> (e.g., Knopfler uses a Strat, but which amp?), or vice versa (e.g.,
>> Tom Petty's lead guitarist plays into Vox AC-30s, if I'm not
>> mistaken, but with which guitars on which songs?).
>>
>> So just for fun, I thought I'd invite you netizens to fill in any
>> combinations you're pretty sure of. I probably could look a lot of
>> these up on the web, but it would take days, and I like the idea of
>> harnessing the collective knowledge of the 'net, and maybe someone
>> else will be interested in the answers as well. Although I'm less
>> concerned about identifying effects, neck vs bridge pu, etc.(most of
>> them I think I can figure out), any hints on those will be welcome.
>>
>> Also, I'm interested mainly in the "signature" guitar sound of the
>> song, which is usually (though not always) the lead part. And if an
>> unusual model of amp or guitar was used, it might be helpful to
>> suggest which more common model would come close.
SNIP
>>
>> CCR - Born on the Bayou, Proud Mary, Suzy Q, Green River, Fortunate
>> Son
>
>I can't help too much here as to what CCR actually used but there
>was a PBS Special on that had Fogerty and his band playing all the
>Creedence stuff. He used mostly 3 guitars for the entire 2 hours.
>He used a Stratocaster and 2 Les Pauls. On more rockin songs like
>Sweet Hitchhiker he used the Les Paul. On Proud Mary he used the Strat.
>On Fortunate Son he used the Les Paul. And the rhythm guitarist used
>a Les Paul too (I never saw him change guitars). And the third guitarist
>was using a Stratocaster. The bass player used what appeared to be
>a maple necked Fender Jazz bass. Fogerty mostly used Les Pauls though.
>One was set up as a slide player and the other as regular action guitar.
>I only saw him switch over to the Strat for 2 or 3 songs.
>The amps used were mostly mixed heads/cabs and combos. You could
>see the mics in front of them. I have no idea what Fogerty was
>actually plugged into. But the amps used were Marshall heads/cabs
>and there were Fender Twins which were easy to spot on the stage.
Er... not from what I am looking at here...
Did some Youtubing on CCR and found a small interview piece of them at
their infancy - very young! Discussing some common problems including
over-zealous drumming(!), and not being able to hit right notes on the
guitar - every time(!!!)
Fogerty using a Rickenbacker - not 360 - and the rythm is being played
on a Guild 335 style model.
No Marshalls... mixed head/cabs and maybe some large Fender cabs but
too indistinct.
Don't have link to hand, (I save the clips I want for offline) but
just do a Credence / Fogerty / and song titles search and it will be
thrown up amongst results.
MG
UK
DGDevin
news:1185125414....@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
> Two completely unrelated issues. "I think having wheels on my car is
> WAY more important than getting good gas mileage." Duh.
Maybe not, perhaps whether or not the engine will start is closer to whether
or not you have wheels. After all, the car has to be capable of moving
before gas milage becomes an issue.
> Oh, and I used the Variax 600 for the first time, and it was great.
Pray you never need warrantly service for it. I bought an L6 amp some years
back and when it failed I learned their warranty service was an unfunny
joke, a lot of other folks online seemed to have similar experiences.
> Sound guy volunteered that he really like how the Variax
> sounded in the mix.
If you like it and your customers continue to pay you to play it, then
that's all that counts. In theory the flexibility of such products is very
useful to gigging musicians who can't afford big trucks and roadies to hump
tons of gear in and out every night, and I've heard from more such players
recently who are using modelling gear to fill that role.
However, wanna bet that when it's time to cut your first album that you take
traditional guitars and several tube amps into the studio? Plus once that
album goes platinum and can afford those big trucks and roadies you're
almost certainly going to take that traditional gear on the road with you.
Modelling gear is now good enough to play weddings, but when it's time to go
onstage at Austin City Limits you're going to be playing through hot glass.
RichL
I believe that in the original recording a Rickenbacker was used.
DGDevin
news:X6Wni.3229$gC5.1548@trnddc04...
> Yeah, I have to say I thought some of the responses were over the top.
Well, it was sort of like he went to a Harley Owners Group meeting and asked
for help tuning his Kawasaki. ;^)
Squier
are you sure we are comparing the same things.
this was a televised concert shown on the US recently
and it was Fogerty with his own band and not CCR.
Actually there was a person here that replied and was at that concert.
I really think you are discribing something else other than the concert gear.
You are talking about CCR and what they were using originally (???)
Which is a help - but it also does not diminish or disclaim any
of the observations I wrote about the (fairly) recent Fogerty concert
aired on Public Broadcast Tele here in US.
thanks for your info about the original CCR though.
Qzectb
> However, wanna bet that when it's time to cut your first album that you take
> traditional guitars and several tube amps into the studio? Plus once that
> album goes platinum and can afford those big trucks and roadies you're
> almost certainly going to take that traditional gear on the road with you.
> Modelling gear is now good enough to play weddings, but when it's time to go
> onstage at Austin City Limits you're going to be playing through hot glass.
A valid point ... for those folks who have better than a 0.1% chance
of ever cutting an album of any kind or going onstage at ACL.
Here's some useful context in my case: I'm a middle-aged professor at
a major research university, unlikely to quit my day job, married with
kids either in or approaching college, didn't even GET my first
electric guitar (a Squier strat and solid-state practice amp for $300
total), let alone start teaching myself to play lead guitar, until age
32; the band I helped start about 6 years ago on a lark has gone WAY
further than I could have ever dreamed at the time, based mainly on
the strength of (a) our song selection, (b) our lead vocalist's solid
singing ability, and (c) my ability to fake some ability on lead
guitar (and I'm not being merely self-deprecating when I say "fake").
Most importantly, no one in the band has both the time AND talent
needed to pen decent original songs.
In short, the odds of me or my band cutting a real studio album or
going onto a nationally famous stage is exactly zero. In fact, I
believe I am already at, or close to, the pinnacle of my musical
"career".
RichL
Nothing wrong with that at all! It's called "doing it because you love it."
DGDevin
> In short, the odds of me or my band cutting a real studio album or
> going onto a nationally famous stage is exactly zero. In fact, I
> believe I am already at, or close to, the pinnacle of my musical
> "career".
Which already puts you some distance ahead of most of the folks who post
here. ;^)
Hey, your circumstances are somewhat different from those associated with
the guys who normally want help figuring out patches for their modelling
gear, they usually come across as 16-year-olds who want to make the factory
speed-metal presets sound crunchier. In your case if the L6 stuff is doing
what you want it to then all the snotty tube purists should be ignored,
you're gigging and most of them are not. And I confess my distaste for L6
is based largely on their horrible warranty service, a company that doesn't
return my calls when I need help with a defective product is not getting any
more of my business, let's hope you have better luck with them.
Larry
With the right equipment, and the models created from the EXACT model
instruments (amps, cabinets, etc...) used for the original, you can come
damn close.
-Larry
"Keith Adams" <keith...@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:469fec19$0$4657$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
> Get a clue man. It aint gonna happen. The guys you hear on the recordings
> could be playing through the exact same equipment and not sound the same.
> Each time a song is played its a one time thing. Unique in its self. You
> might be able to get close to the original sound but who knows whats gonna
> give it to you? They may have been playing a Gibson through an old Rick
> amp but you find the sound on your Fender through a Marshall setting?
> Sometimes a Vox AC30 doesnt sound like you'd expect it to. The amps and
> effects with preset sound emulations are only vague generalizations at
> best.
>
> "Qzectb" <qze...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1184884732.9...@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>> Now that I'm a proud owner of both a Variax 600 (with a zillion guitar
>> models) and a POD XT Live (with a zillion amp models), I'd like to
>> experiment with guitar+amp combinations that are close to what were
>> used on the original recordings of many of the songs my cover band
>> plays. In many cases, I think I know the guitar but not the amp
>> (e.g., Knopfler uses a Strat, but which amp?), or vice versa (e.g.,
>> Tom Petty's lead guitarist plays into Vox AC-30s, if I'm not
>> mistaken, but with which guitars on which songs?).
>>
>> So just for fun, I thought I'd invite you netizens to fill in any
>> combinations you're pretty sure of. I probably could look a lot of
>> these up on the web, but it would take days, and I like the idea of
>> harnessing the collective knowledge of the 'net, and maybe someone
>> else will be interested in the answers as well. Although I'm less
>> concerned about identifying effects, neck vs bridge pu, etc.(most of
>> them I think I can figure out), any hints on those will be welcome.
>>
>> Also, I'm interested mainly in the "signature" guitar sound of the
>> song, which is usually (though not always) the lead part. And if an
>> unusual model of amp or guitar was used, it might be helpful to
>> suggest which more common model would come close.
>>
>>
>> So here goes (in no particular order):
>>
>> Early Beatles - Daytripper, Twist and Shout, I Feel Fine, Hard Days
>> Night, I Saw Her Standing There
>>
>> Late Beatles - Back in the USSR, Birthday, Revolution, Come Together
>>
>> CCR - Born on the Bayou, Proud Mary, Suzy Q, Green River, Fortunate
>> Son
>>
>> Cars - Bye Bye Love, Gotta Lot on My Head, Just What I Needed,
>> Dangerous Type
>>
>> Steppenwolf - Born to be Wild
>>
>> Rolling Stones - The Last Time, Get Off Of My Cloud, Satisfaction,
>> Jumping Jack Flash, HonkyTonk Woman, Sympathy for the Devil
>>
>> Cream - Sunshine of Your Love
>>
>> Aerosmith - Dream On (lead)
>>
>> Eagles - Hotel California (both leads)
>>
>> Elvis - Jailhouse Rock - Elvis Presley
>>
>> Tommy Tutone - Jenny (867-5309)
>>
>> Steve Miller - Jet Airliner
>>
>> Doobie Brothers - Listen to the Music
>>
>> SRV - Mary Had a Little Lamb
>>
>> The Police - Message in a Bottle, Roxanne
>>
>> Dire Straits - Money for Nothing
>>
>> U2 - Pride, Sunday Bloody Sunday
>>
>> Nirvana - Smells Like Teen Spirit, Come As You Are
>>
>> Stray Cats - Stray Cat Strut
>>
>> Lynyrd Skynyrd - Sweet Home Alabama (clean and lead)
>>
>> The Eagles - Take it Easy, Tequila Sunrise, Peaceful Easy Feeling,
>> Hotel California (both leads - Walsh and whoever)
>>
>> Tom Petty -Refugee, Break Down
>>
Bob Mann
<cornel...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>"Qzectb" wrote
>
>> (e.g., Knopfler uses a Strat, but which amp?)
>On "Money for nothing" I know the video shows his trademark Strat but when I
>saw him on the "Brothers In Arms tour" he used something Steinberger-y, if I
>remember correctly.
Knopfler rarely uses a strat any more.
Money for nothing was originally done usuing a Les Paul on both
pickups. Tone rolled off to zero on the neck, and maxed on the bridge,
volume on 10 for both and with a wah pedal static at some point. Not
sure what amp he used.
Most of hisn other stuff includung that now, he uses a custom made
guitar of which I can't recall the name.
>
>On Early Beatles, if you want to use that 12-string emulation, do "Ticket To
>Ride"!
Beattles amp sounds closest on a Vox AC30 setting with no boost
although I am pretty sure they may have used the 50 or 100 watt amps
--
Bob Mann
Sex is like air; it's not important unless you
aren't getting any
Bob Mann
>CCR - Born on the Bayou, Proud Mary, Suzy Q, Green River, Fortunate
>Son
Sounds like a fender fest to me.
Bob Mann
>Rolling Stones - The Last Time, Get Off Of My Cloud, Satisfaction,
>Jumping Jack Flash, HonkyTonk Woman, Sympathy for the Devil
Mostly Fender Tele many of them are open G tuning, How does the guitar
respond to that?
RichL
news:k1taa31o5tce69k8b...@4ax.com...
Yep, also some solid-state Vox models and Fender amps in their later
recordings.
Bob Mann
That's right too. I remember seeing something about them using the SS
Vox at some point. Those were actually not bad SS amps.
MG
Yes, but the OPoster wanted to know how the sound of the original
songs were made up...
Cheers
MG
UK
Jim
> HOW could Univox or Plush get Led Zep and J Beck and
> all the rest to 'use' the amps...endorse them. And they did use
> them, Beck LOVED his 6-12 Univox cabs. Led Zep adored those amps.
I have an old Univox U-1061 bass amp that I'm modifying for guitar. I'm
telling ya, that thing has CRUSHING volume. If other Univox amps are
like this one, I can see why bands liked them for stage use. It has
big, heavy iron, and seems quite a bit louder than a Super Lead. I (at
a minimum) need to play with coupling cap values and maybe tone stacks
to get it where I want it to be.
It has a few odd design characteristics:
http://www.schematicheaven.com/bargainbin/univox1061.pdf
Actual pics of mine:
http://www.seattle-attorney.com/guitar/U1061a.JPG
http://www.seattle-attorney.com/guitar/U1061d.JPG
http://www.seattle-attorney.com/guitar/U1061g.JPG
One thing is certain, it's got the power and headroom! (I measured 720V
at the power supply with two tubes pulled, 685 with a quad.)
I'm still trying to decide which way to go with this monster. Possibly
even Super Lead preamp stage, since it's set up for it (jacks and pots).
It may be an amp that works best with effects for distortion, since it
has so much headroom. It's not the best tool for an "at home player"
like myself, but I also wouldn't part with it for chump change. So it
might have to find it's niche.
JJTj
>That's right too. I remember seeing something about them using the SS
>Vox at some point. Those were actually not bad SS amps.
Vox at that point handed the Fab 4 anything they came up with, on
silver platters at the SS amp range point in time. In the UK
they used the UK SS stuff (awesome schematics to leech off) and
in the USofA, the Thomas Organ stuff (which was a whole diff amp).
US tours used USA Organs..UK, over there..
MANY UK bands just rented T/Organ Vox to tour. Same look, good
sound (both amps are great), when the tour ends, amp stays there.
Acoustic did it with the Mothers, and about every CA band, taking
photos and making GP ads out of them. The Doors were big too.
Of course, VOX also did the 'Battle of the Bands' giving away
equipment, best ads out there, T/Organ had $$ to burn for ads..
Plush/Earth, Univox, Sunn, Kustom, even Guild amps 'rented' amps
for tours. HOW could Univox or Plush get Led Zep and J Beck and
all the rest to 'use' the amps...endorse them. And they did use
them, Beck LOVED his 6-12 Univox cabs. Led Zep adored those amps.
..don't know about plush.. J Beck toured alot with them..
Ampeg had 'Stones' amps and 'Faces' amps in white covering
that have more miles then ya wanna guess at too ready for tour.
No one does it today, I'm told. Bands want to own the gear, or
maybe it's cheaper to do. Company gives Icon name free gear.
JJTj
...2 much monkee bizness 4 me to bee a monkee....
Bob Mann
>No one does it today, I'm told. Bands want to own the gear, or
>maybe it's cheaper to do. Company gives Icon name free gear.
These days the tours use small amps you could use at home for the most
part miked up through the PA.
Not much advertizing benefit when the amp is barely visible from the
10th row.
Jon
> Okay, we have a disagreement: LP or Strat on "Proud Mary"? I've been
> using a Strat, and it sounds pretty close to me.
There's a two-pickup chime to it, but not a Strat-like one to my ear; of
course if you EQ it differently it can work out for you.
Rich Koerner
Jim wrote:
>
> JJTj wrote:
>
> > HOW could Univox or Plush get Led Zep and J Beck and
> > all the rest to 'use' the amps...endorse them. And they did use
> > them, Beck LOVED his 6-12 Univox cabs. Led Zep adored those amps.
>
> I have an old Univox U-1061 bass amp that I'm modifying for guitar. I'm
> telling ya, that thing has CRUSHING volume. If other Univox amps are
> like this one, I can see why bands liked them for stage use. It has
> big, heavy iron, and seems quite a bit louder than a Super Lead. I (at
> a minimum) need to play with coupling cap values and maybe tone stacks
> to get it where I want it to be.
>
> It has a few odd design characteristics:
> http://www.schematicheaven.com/bargainbin/univox1061.pdf
>
> Actual pics of mine:
> http://www.seattle-attorney.com/guitar/U1061a.JPG
> http://www.seattle-attorney.com/guitar/U1061d.JPG
> http://www.seattle-attorney.com/guitar/U1061g.JPG
>
> One thing is certain, it's got the power and headroom! (I measured 720V
> at the power supply with two tubes pulled, 685 with a quad.)
Oops.
There goes one of those myths again.
A set of GE-6550A's, and amazing things happen.
The flying "C" could do something nice for ya too.
Back in the day, you could not be afraid to run 'em on the warm side.
Thinking of it as having a top fuel dragster on a leash
Regards,
Rich Koerner,
Time Electronics.
http://www.timeelect.com
Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering,
Music & Studio Production,
Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers
http://www.timeelect.com/mahavishnu.htm
http://www.timeelect.com/ws-99.htm
http://www.timeelect.com/livesound.htm
http://www.timeelect.com/credits-acc.html
http://www.timeelect.com/road-2.htm
http://www.timeelect.com/Elliott.htm
http://www.timeelect.com/RichAmps.htm
http://www.timeelect.com/Custinst.htm
http://www.timeelect.com/Custamp.htm
http://www.timeelect.com/400-PS-IDX.htm
Keith Adams
Whats wrong man. Are you too cheap to pay for advertising?
"Rich Koerner" <ri...@timeelect.com> wrote in message
news:46B50231...@timeelect.com...
Jim
>
> Jim wrote:
>
>>JJTj wrote:
>>
>> > HOW could Univox or Plush get Led Zep and J Beck and
>>
>>>all the rest to 'use' the amps...endorse them. And they did use
>>>them, Beck LOVED his 6-12 Univox cabs. Led Zep adored those amps.
>>
>>I have an old Univox U-1061 bass amp that I'm modifying for guitar. I'm
>>telling ya, that thing has CRUSHING volume. If other Univox amps are
>>like this one, I can see why bands liked them for stage use. It has
>>big, heavy iron, and seems quite a bit louder than a Super Lead. I (at
>>a minimum) need to play with coupling cap values and maybe tone stacks
>>to get it where I want it to be.
>>
>>It has a few odd design characteristics:
>>http://www.schematicheaven.com/bargainbin/univox1061.pdf
>>
>>Actual pics of mine:
>>http://www.seattle-attorney.com/guitar/U1061a.JPG
>>http://www.seattle-attorney.com/guitar/U1061d.JPG
>>http://www.seattle-attorney.com/guitar/U1061g.JPG
>>
>>One thing is certain, it's got the power and headroom! (I measured 720V
>>at the power supply with two tubes pulled, 685 with a quad.)
>
>
> Oops.
>
> There goes one of those myths again.
>
> A set of GE-6550A's, and amazing things happen.
I don't have any spare 6550A (just one pair that came out of my JMP
2204), but I do have some Sylvania 6550. Should I bias for them and
give it a try? I don't expect them to be as robust as 6550A, and I
don't want to cook them with 685V.
Jay Tee
> Cars - Bye Bye Love, Gotta Lot on My Head, Just What I Needed,
> Dangerous Type
> Steve Miller - Jet Airliner
Steve was playing an Ibanez Iceman around that period.
> SRV - Mary Had a Little Lamb
SRV almost never played anything but a Strat. He changed his amp
setup an awful lot over his career, and from what I can tell almost
never played through a single amp ...
> Stray Cats - Stray Cat Strut
Setzer was fond of big Gretsch guitars
> The Eagles - Take it Easy, Tequila Sunrise, Peaceful Easy Feeling,
> Hotel California (both leads - Walsh and whoever)
Walsh was partial to Les Pauls back in those days.
> AC/DC - Back in Black
Gibson SG ... dunno the amp.
RichL
news:1186334703.5...@19g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
IIRC Walsh played a Tele on "Hotel California" and Don Felder played a
double-neck (6/12) Gibson.
I don't think Walsh was with the Eagles when any of the other songs were
recorded. Most of them feature Bernie Leadon on lead guitar.
Rich Koerner
Rich Koerner
Keith Adams wrote:
>
> Gee. Thanks for your fu---ng spam Koerner.
> Whats wrong man. Are you too cheap to pay for advertising?
How about an estimate.
Mike Schway
Rich Koerner <ri...@timeelect.com> wrote:
> http://www.timeelect.com/6550-1.jpg
>
> Things like this can happen.
Ya notice that this was one of those notorious USA-made 6550s? If only
they would make them to the published specs, this stuff wouldn't happen.
;-) [BIG wink].
OTOH, just maybe it was working fine up to the point where the GLASS
failed! ;-)
--Mike
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Schway | [Picture your favorite quote here]
msc...@nas.com |
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