Re: Tube Amps vs. Modeling - you guys are kidding yourselves
guitarPsych
on the amp someone uses? In any case here's my opinion on the
comparison/choice:
If the modeller amp works for you then great, you should stick with it and
do your thing.
I personally like the slight variability of tube. Modellers are getting
better at programming in variability to digital units though. There is also
a certain romanticism about tube amps, similar to preferring vinyl records
over cds. Sometimes inconvenience is part of the experience. It's also
great because if most people use solid state or modellers, it means my sound
is distinguished at least one level from most people's sound. I try to
avoid using the most modern equipment. Using the latest gadget can be fun
but it can also make you sound too much like a product of this moment in
time, like everyone else, all predictably making the same noises out of the
same new toy.
<dim...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1115652118.3...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>I am new to these boards, but I have noticed all the talk about how
> tube amps are so much better. This is a prime example of how you can't
> believe everyting you read, especially on the internet. I play in a
> band and gig twice a month, sometimes more! And I always use a modeling
> amp with no problems after 2 years of this.
> Of the 30 or so guitatists I know only 2 use tube amps. Everyone else
> uses modeling or solid state amps. I feel that modeling amps are the
> best. Why is it that so many people talk about how great tube amps are,
> and how much better they are when clearly this is not true! I have been
> playing for 5 years, and like I said I have been in a band gigging for
> 2 and have never used anythign but modeling amps and they work great
> for me!
>
Alan Walker
gone 'modeling' after about 5 years of gigging using a Marshall 50W Mk 2
Lead. I'm using a Roland VGA7 and was a little surprised that I had to turn
it up to about 7 to get a similar volume to about 3 on the Marshall.
Otherwise a brilliant one-stop-shop.
HDWriter
>Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar, alt.guitar, alt.guitar.amps
>From: dim4...@yahoo.com - Find messages by this author
>Date: 9 May 2005 08:21:58 -0700
>Local: Mon,May 9 2005 11:21 am
>Subject: Tube Amps vs. Modeling - you guys are kidding yourselves
>Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Report >Abuse
>I am new to these boards, but I have noticed all the talk about how
>tube amps are so much better. This is a prime example of how you can't
>believe everyting you read, especially on the internet. I play in a
>band and gig twice a month, sometimes more! And I always use a
modeling
>amp with no problems after 2 years of this.
>Of the 30 or so guitatists I know only 2 use tube amps. Everyone else
>uses modeling or solid state amps. I feel that modeling amps are the
>best. Why is it that so many people talk about how great tube amps
are,
>and how much better they are when clearly this is not true! I have
been
>playing for 5 years, and like I said I have been in a band gigging for
>2 and have never used anythign but modeling amps and they work great
>for me!
Wow, you've actually been playing for a whole 5 years! Man, now I know
who to go to when I need the advice of a well-seasoned professional.
Good to know you're here for us. :>)
GregD
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
> I am new to these boards, but I have noticed all the talk about how
> tube amps are so much better. This is a prime example of how you can't
> believe everyting you read, especially on the internet. I play in a
> band and gig twice a month, sometimes more! And I always use a modeling
> amp with no problems after 2 years of this.
> Of the 30 or so guitatists I know only 2 use tube amps. Everyone else
> uses modeling or solid state amps. I feel that modeling amps are the
> best. Why is it that so many people talk about how great tube amps are,
> and how much better they are when clearly this is not true! I have been
> playing for 5 years, and like I said I have been in a band gigging for
> 2 and have never used anythign but modeling amps and they work great
> for me!
I really like tube amps to provide a nice clean, muscular base for my
multi-FX pedals... modeling pedals, if you will.
I have no problem with modeling, but to think you'll really get a Twin
Reverb sound out of a 15W SS amp with an 8" speaker is silly, right? But
you can get a good variety of sounds out of a modeling amp or, in my case,
pedal.
I've tried SS modeling amps - Yamaha, Rocktron (Taboo) and others, but I
really liek deoupling my effects/amp sims from the amplifer itself, which
is why I use a pedal. That lets me pick the best base amp, which for me is
a tube amp of some kind with really good clean tones - not stark cleans
like a SS amp, though.
Greg
Mike
amp you would want to use. Tube amps are not for everything. Modeling
amps are pretty impressive these days, but they can only provide a
simulation of tube amp. So if you want the classic sound of a tube
amp, the best place to get it is from a tube amp.
General Specific
First, what modeling amp do you use?
What tube amps have you used?
What guitar and style do you play?
If you want to have an objective discussion of the merits of modeling
vs tubes I'm game, but you have to answer these questions.
I played a Line6 Flextone 2 both in the studio and live for years. Now
I play a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe, which fits my style and needs better.
Tell me what you've been playing and I'll give you the benefit of my
modeling experience, both good and bad.
General Specific
recording on a CD does.
They do NOT model the experience of playing one.
Odin
<dim...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> I am new to these boards, but I have noticed all the talk
about how
> tube amps are so much better. This is a prime example of
how you can't
> believe everyting you read, especially on the internet. I
play in a
> band and gig twice a month, sometimes more! And I always
use a modeling
> amp with no problems after 2 years of this.
> Of the 30 or so guitatists I know only 2 use tube amps.
Everyone else
> uses modeling or solid state amps. I feel that modeling
amps are the
> best. Why is it that so many people talk about how great
tube amps are,
> and how much better they are when clearly this is not
true! I have been
> playing for 5 years, and like I said I have been in a band
gigging for
> 2 and have never used anythign but modeling amps and they
work great
> for me!
If you can't tell the difference then don't spend the money
on tube amps. Most guitarists can tell the difference, and
that is why they choose tube amps.
J.A.M.
Marshall specially. I play blues and rock with a LP and I love the sound!
If you are happy with solid state, go for it. I'll stay tube.
<dim...@yahoo.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:1115652118.3...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
iarwain
Most guitar players I know use solid state also, and I think the main
reason is that they're cheaper. Not everyone can afford a decent tube
amp.
I prefer tube amps myself, I just like the character of their
distortion better plus they seem more dynamic and responsive. I will
also say that a modeling amp won't really sound like a tube amp. But
for people who like solid state, I will say the following:
Solid state does a better job at giving you a loud sparkling clean
sound, if that's what you're after.
People who are so closed minded as to maintain you can't get a decent
sound out of any solid state amp are making a pretty ridiculous
assertion and an overgeneralization. Amp bigots, basically.
Some solid state amps sound better than some tube amps and some tube
amps sound better than some solid state amps.
Just my opinion, YMMV. Personally, I prefer tube amps.
miker
> uses modeling or solid state amps. I feel that modeling amps are the
> best.
Sounds like they are certainly the most average.
>Why is it that so many people talk about how great tube amps are,
> and how much better they are when clearly this is not true!
I can prove the opposite. The damn door in my office will NOT stay open by
itself, this is extremely irritating. My modeling amp has castors, and if
the windows are open a stronger gust of wind still moves the door. A tube
amp, however, will hold the door securely. Perhaps the extra transformer
weight helps.
I think it is clear from this that tube amps are best and will do the job
while modeling amps just cannot be counted on.
miker
Lord Valve
dim...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I am new to these boards, but I have noticed all the talk about how
> tube amps are so much better.
Maybe it's because they are?
> This is a prime example of how you can't
> believe everyting you read, especially on the internet.
And since *you're* posting on the Internet...
> I play in a band and gig twice a month, sometimes more!
Wow! More than twice! Must be a stone pro...
> And I always use a modeling amp with no problems after 2 years of this.
Good for you.
> Of the 30 or so guitatists I know only 2 use tube amps.
Those would be the good ones.
> Everyone else uses modeling or solid state amps. I feel that modeling
> amps are the
> best.
I'm not going to argue with you. For *you*, they probably are.
> Why is it that so many people talk about how great tube amps are,
> and how much better they are when clearly this is not true!
Well, I guess all of those people must be retarded.
> I have been playing for 5 years,
Five whole years!
> and like I said I have been in a band gigging for
> 2 and have never used anythign but modeling amps and they work great
> for me!
Good!
And when you went to elementary school (not so very long ago)
you used crayons before you moved up to pencils (Sharp! Not
for the little ones!) and later on, ballpoint pens. It's a natural
progression. There's no reason at all for you not to like your
modeller. If it makes the sounds you enjoy, there's really no
reason for you to own a tube amp. Sooner or later, though,
you'll have the opportunity to listen to your modeller side
by side with, say, a Vox AC-30.
My, won't that be an ear-opener.
Lord Valve
Expert
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General Specific
smeghead
I've heard a number of guitar players live using modeling amps, and, IMHO
they all sound like poop, especially if they are running through the PA.
They are fine for clean tones, but bite the big one for distorted or chunky
tones. Give me tubes or give me death!
But hey, with 2 years of stage experience...who can argue with a resume like
that???
<dim...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1115652118.3...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> I am new to these boards, but I have noticed all the talk about how
> tube amps are so much better. This is a prime example of how you can't
> believe everyting you read, especially on the internet. I play in a
> band and gig twice a month, sometimes more! And I always use a modeling
> amp with no problems after 2 years of this.
> Of the 30 or so guitatists I know only 2 use tube amps. Everyone else
> uses modeling or solid state amps. I feel that modeling amps are the
> best. Why is it that so many people talk about how great tube amps are,
> and how much better they are when clearly this is not true! I have been
> playing for 5 years, and like I said I have been in a band gigging for
John Wheaton
"General Specific" <brad_p...@yahoo.com> wrote in message...
> First off, modeling amps will model the sound of a tube amp, like a
> recording on a CD does.
>
> They do NOT model the experience of playing one.
>
Bingo! SS does not have the dynamics of a tube amp, especially when you`ve
got those baby`s nice and warm, and you`re pushing them just a bit. You can
get to where you play the amp, like you play your guitar. SS player will
never know that feeling.
See ya,
John
Five Guys Named Mo
> tube amps are so much better.
And then the big billy goat said...
Anyway, my big problem with tube amps is that they're too damn loud. So
where I'm at right now is I'm using a Sansamp Tri-AC and using my amp for
its power tubes.
Gives me the best of both worlds, I say. The Tri-AC gives me great sounds
at low volumes, the amp's tubes warm thing up nicely.
It helps that Tech21 is using analog circuitry, it's not one of those
ultra-cold digital boxes. Personally I can't stand the sound of those pod
thingys.
Lowtonejoe
> believe everyting you read, especially on the internet.
Spoken like a true ignoramus.
Joe.
--
Indecision is the key to flexibility. – Jerry Leaton
My Soundclick Website – http://www.soundclick.com/bands/9/joesanchez.htm
My Bud LeCompte Signature Series Bass! –
http://www.lowtones.com/LeCompteJSSM
audio...@my-deja.com
Lord Valve wrote:
<snip>
Sooner or later, though,
> you'll have the opportunity to listen to your modeller side
> by side with, say, a Vox AC-30.
>
> My, won't that be an ear-opener.
LOL, yes it will. I was in a local music shop trying out guitars and
playing through on of the better (to my ears) modelling amps.
Right next to it were a couple of the tube amps it was modelling. When
you cranked them up to gig volume, side by side, there is no
comparison. The tube amp is much more present, warm and punchy, IMHO.
Ricky Hunt
news:1115659993.2...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I can live with emulators (for my uses) if they're still hardware units.
Software just doesn't respond to attack like hardware does (and hardware
emulators less than amps).
Bogon Flux
>>Of the 30 or so guitatists I know only 2 use tube amps. Everyone else
>>uses modeling or solid state amps. I feel that modeling amps are the
>>best.
>
> Sounds like they are certainly the most average.
>
>>Why is it that so many people talk about how great tube amps are,
>>and how much better they are when clearly this is not true!
>
> I can prove the opposite. The damn door in my office will NOT stay open by
> itself, this is extremely irritating. My modeling amp has castors, and if
> the windows are open a stronger gust of wind still moves the door. A tube
> amp, however, will hold the door securely. Perhaps the extra transformer
> weight helps.
If you'd use EV-SRO's instead of that
wimpy stock speaker, you'd say different.
In a related series of tests, my buddies
have secured their boats in 30 feet of water
with assorted guitar amps. An old 30 watt
Supro 15" just didn't cut it until they
put in an SRO. Similar results with a Roland
Jazz. Old TV Champs & Princetons were utterly
useless. The Dumble OD was excellent, BTW.
On a related note, pine cabinets hold up better
than MDF particle board ones when under water.
--
John S. Shinal
It *depends*. My SS rig is a modeler, but analog rather than
digital (Sansamp PSA-1). I also use small and medium tube amps. I
rarely use "presets".
There is nothing EXACTLY like the spank you get from a loud,
clean Fender Twin. Neither is there anything EXACTLY like a grinding
Marshall driving the string under your finger. But there IS something
that is 96% of that, and it's a properly set up modeling rig.
I've just about decided that the key is to NOT use the
built-in speaker emulators, instead using a graphic EQ post-preamp to
get the tone properly shaped. It seems to work with a variety of
speakers.
For a 96% solution, all in a 4 space rack, it works pretty
well.
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Odin
"Lord Valve" <detr...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> > I have been playing for 5 years,
>
> Five whole years!
>
> > and like I said I have been in a band gigging for
> > 2 and have never used anythign but modeling amps and
they work great
> > for me!
>
> Good!
>
> And when you went to elementary school (not so very long
ago)
> you used crayons before you moved up to pencils (Sharp!
Not
> for the little ones!) and later on, ballpoint pens. It's
a natural
> progression. There's no reason at all for you not to like
your
> modeller. If it makes the sounds you enjoy, there's
really no
> reason for you to own a tube amp. Sooner or later,
though,
> you'll have the opportunity to listen to your modeller
side
> by side with, say, a Vox AC-30.
>
> My, won't that be an ear-opener.
Probably not. I've met people who cannot tell the
difference. They weren't what I would call good players,
but they were players and they liked the gadgets of the
modeling amp and couldn't see what the big deal was about
tube amps. Usually guys who like effects and lots of
channels to switch between.
Rich Koerner
dim...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> I am new to these boards,
And amplifiers too.
> but I have noticed all the talk about how
> tube amps are so much better. This is a prime example of how you can't
> believe everyting you read, especially on the internet.
You, included.
> I play in a
> band and gig twice a month, sometimes more! And I always use a modeling
> amp with no problems after 2 years of this.
A babe in arms, are ya now.
With a knowledge of music, just as vast too!!!!!
> Of the 30 or so guitatists I know only 2 use tube amps.
All, of equal stature, to yourself I take it.
> Everyone else
> uses modeling or solid state amps.
Look,..... stop fooling yourself.
In the five years you have been in the music world of guitar playing, you have not had the time on
this planet to listen to the recordings of the great masters of tone before you.
As a matter of FACT, I KNOW you haven't look back at the past GREATS, because you are too hung up on
the NOW!!!!
You haven't the had the time to aquire knowledge of experience to speak with any authority on the
subject.
Seasoned, you are not.
> I feel that modeling amps are the
> best. Why is it that so many people talk about how great tube amps are,
The fact, you ask such a question in the first place, tells us you have not listened to all the
great tones of the past to develop an EAR, to know the difference between the two, even if it hit
you in the face.
> and how much better they are when clearly this is not true!
You, are totally in ERROR.
> I have been
> playing for 5 years, and like I said I have been in a band gigging for
> 2 and have never used anythign but modeling amps and they work great
> for me!
Talk to me when you have spent more than five years with your friends hanging out playing amps in
Guitar Center, and are now an old road dog with a REAL pedigree for TONE in recorded and live music.
Oh, one more thought.
Why is it that you can find a tube sitting in some many of those solid state amp.
Why's that, do you think.
Open a cyber twin lately!!!!!!
Regards,
Rich Koerner,
Time Electronics.
http://www.timeelect.com
Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering,
Music & Studio Production,
Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers
lbrt...@aol.com
oasysco
Greg
oasysco
I mis-read it is anybody's guess.
Greg
Bazooka-Joe
However, this is the first time I've seen a modelling amp proponent get
defensive and make the claim "modeling amps are the best". Usually
it's a tube snob, but the feaux pa still exists.
Why can't we just let guitar tone be subjective and leave it at that?
Why do you feel you have to post these disrotations about one thing or
the other being "the best" and claim everyone else is "kidding
themselves"? A truly fantastic TROLL. Nice job. They're different
technologies that, to my mind, shouldn't even be compared. I love them
both. I use them both. You're just picking a fight. Especially
coming off as a proponent of modeling in this newsgroup, you're asking
to verbally assaulted and blacklisted. There's no quicker way to get
flamed in rec.music.makers.guitar or alt.guitar than titling your
posting something like "Marshalls & Mesa Boogies Suck!" or anything
else that tells all those tube amp enthusiasts that they've wasted
their thousands of dollars on the most sought after amps in the
business, and then sit back and watch the fallout. Next time you're
feeling like rocking the boat, go do it in alt.guitar.amps.
_________________
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/ O O\__ | feed the Troll |
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/ |\____\ \ ||
/ | | | |\____/ ||
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/ | | | --|
| | | |______ --|
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/ _ \\ | / ||
* / \_ /- | | |
* ___ o_o_o_O/ \O_o_o_o____________
:Bazooka-Joe
oasysco
>uses modeling or solid state amps.
I will say this... good tube amps typically cost way more $$ than SS or
what folks take for modeling amps. For example, if you play a Spider
II, is that a real modeling amp or simply a SS amp with some distortion
sounds?
Every gutiarist who has ever played in my son's band has used SS/psuedo
modeling amps - every one of them. But that's par for teenagers who
simply want loud over anything else. And with only $300 to spend
instead of $1300, who can argue going SS for loudness and some
features?
Greg
Free America!
Lord Valve wrote:
> And when you went to elementary school (not so very long ago)
> you used crayons before you moved up to pencils (Sharp! Not
> for the little ones!) and later on, ballpoint pens. It's a natural
> progression. There's no reason at all for you not to like your
> modeller. If it makes the sounds you enjoy, there's really no
> reason for you to own a tube amp. Sooner or later, though,
> you'll have the opportunity to listen to your modeller side
> by side with, say, a Vox AC-30.
>
> My, won't that be an ear-opener.
>
> Lord Valve
> Asspurt
>
>VISIT MY WEBSITE: http://www.rotten.com
Michael
iarw...@hotmail.com says...
> Some solid state amps sound better than some tube amps and some tube
> amps sound better than some solid state amps.
>
however, I don't use a modeling amp, either. I use a Pearce
solid-state amp, which I searched for after I heard Holdsworth
play it. I (of course) don't sound like Holdsworth, but the
Pearce made me sound the best I have, and *the tone* I wanted
to hear was suddenly there.
I tried programmable preamps, and found that if I switch
guitars, and want to turn up the treble a bit, that I had to
scroll through menus, and do it on 30 channels. Uh, no.
So I use the Pearce, with an FX unit that allows me to
switch channels with MIDI (G-Major). It's the best of both
worlds; programmable FX instantly recalled, but with the
simplicity of a two-channel amp with knobs I can twiddle in
real-time.
I find it interesting that some of the people that swear
that tone is all in the hands of the performer, also will
not play on modelling amps. Personally, I think it's a mix
of equipment and performer, and don't see how it could really
be otherwise. But *tone* is a VERY subjective thing, and
who's to say that the tone the modelling amp puts out isn't
exactly what some performers are after?
I have nothing against the modellers, myself. I simply
have the tone I want, right now, and see no reason to change.
--
---Michael (of APP)...
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/6/austinpowerplantmusic.htm
david morley
> I am new to these boards, but I have noticed all the talk about how
> tube amps are so much better. This is a prime example of how you can't
> band and gig twice a month, sometimes more! And I always use a modeling
> amp with no problems after 2 years of this.
> best. Why is it that so many people talk about how great tube amps are,
> playing for 5 years, and like I said I have been in a band gigging for
> 2 and have never used anythign but modeling amps and they work great
> for me!
>
I LOVE tube amps
I also LOVE my HH Solid State amp (and so did a few pros in the 70's)
I LOVE the Yamaha DG80 as it doesn't pretend to be a vox/marshall/fender
to the extent of the others. It just sounds great (especially if
Holdsworth plays it)
Wow, I even love Fenders AND Gibsons....even Ibanez too!
Yawn, back to bed
Free America!
of hip vintage tube amps. My first amp was a Crate practice amp. You
have to know a McD burger before you can appreciate a great steak.
Jim Anable
> First off, modeling amps will model the sound of a tube amp, like a
> recording on a CD does.
Not in a live situation to my ears. I generally find the guitar to
sound too compressed, too fake, like a toy.
Recording is different.
timepixdc
dim...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Of the 30 or so guitatists I know only 2 use tube amps. Everyone else
> uses modeling or solid state amps.
Use what sounds good TO YOU.
> Why is it that so many people talk about how great tube amps are,
> and how much better they are when clearly this is not true!
It isn't a matter of "truth", just personal preference.
Relax.
Jim Anable
> I am new to these boards, but I have noticed all the talk about how
> tube amps are so much better. This is a prime example of how you can't
> believe everyting you read, especially on the internet. I play in a
> band and gig twice a month, sometimes more! And I always use a modeling
> amp with no problems after 2 years of this.
Every band that I've seen that uses modeling live seems to lack
something. Guitars often sound like toys. When there's two guitarists
(one tubes, one modeling), they are EASY to tell apart. Heck, my wife
even comments!
Who's really fooling themselves?
> Of the 30 or so guitatists I know only 2 use tube amps.
I find that VERY hard to believe.
Let me ask you this: Of signed artists, what would you guess the ratio
of modeling to tubes to be? VERY SMALL. Why? TONE.
Everyone else
> uses modeling or solid state amps. I feel that modeling amps are the
> best. Why is it that so many people talk about how great tube amps are,
> and how much better they are when clearly this is not true! I have been
> playing for 5 years,
I'm glad you recently decided to pick up the guitar. I've been playing
for about 35 years.
Doug
Steve L
5e3 Deluxe. in other words it emulates the old Fender Tweed sound (very well
I might add).
Emulations are fine for anyone that feels that they are pleasing to listen
to. I consider my Tweed clone to be very pleasing. Someone else might say
that only a real 59 Deluxe is good enough (like Neil Young's).
So, using digital emulation is the same really. If you feel that the
emulation of your favorite model is done well enough by your modelling amp,
then go for it.
BTW - I am not allergic to modelling - I own and love a POD XT. I use it
mostly for night time silent playing, but also when I play in the studio and
all they have is some piece of crap.
Tone is in the ear of the beholder.
<dim...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1115652118.3...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>I am new to these boards, but I have noticed all the talk about how
> tube amps are so much better. This is a prime example of how you can't
> believe everyting you read, especially on the internet. I play in a
> band and gig twice a month, sometimes more! And I always use a modeling
> amp with no problems after 2 years of this.
> Of the 30 or so guitatists I know only 2 use tube amps. Everyone else
> uses modeling or solid state amps. I feel that modeling amps are the
> best. Why is it that so many people talk about how great tube amps are,
> and how much better they are when clearly this is not true! I have been
> playing for 5 years, and like I said I have been in a band gigging for
Guncho
dim4...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I am new to these boards, but I have noticed all the talk about how
> tube amps are so much better. This is a prime example of how you
can't
> believe everyting you read, especially on the internet. I play in a
> band and gig twice a month, sometimes more! And I always use a
modeling
> amp with no problems after 2 years of this.
> Of the 30 or so guitatists I know only 2 use tube amps. Everyone else
> uses modeling or solid state amps. I feel that modeling amps are the
> best. Why is it that so many people talk about how great tube amps
are,
> and how much better they are when clearly this is not true! I have
been
> playing for 5 years, and like I said I have been in a band gigging
for
> 2 and have never used anythign but modeling amps and they work great
> for me!
Have you ever played a tube amp? With a band? On stage?
Talk to me when you have.
Night and day.
Chris
Chris M
NGS
> I am new to these boards, but I have noticed all the talk about how
> tube amps are so much better. This is a prime example of how you can't
> believe everyting you read, especially on the internet. I play in a
> band and gig twice a month, sometimes more! And I always use a modeling
> amp with no problems after 2 years of this.
> Of the 30 or so guitatists I know only 2 use tube amps. Everyone else
> uses modeling or solid state amps. I feel that modeling amps are the
> best. Why is it that so many people talk about how great tube amps are,
> and how much better they are when clearly this is not true! I have been
> playing for 5 years, and like I said I have been in a band gigging for
> 2 and have never used anythign but modeling amps and they work great
> for me!
>
you got the cash you can just buy one of the $3,000 boutique amps.
Let me say this though REALLY modeling amps can sound good BUT when you
are comparing them to tube amps are you comparing them to a vintage VOX
or to a $2,000 Soldano or to a $300 Peavey?
If you compared your modeling amp (good as it is) to a Marshall Lead 50
fromt he 70's or a black face Bassman I'm sorry BUT your modeling amp
would sound like sun dried shit on a stick. Though it would sound good,
it would not sound AWESOME, all the rich harmonics and distortions the
tube amps make is missing.
General Specific
Here's here these things get nit picky.
I agree that modelers have their uses, but I disagree with 96%.
Bazooka-Joe
NGS wrote:
> Let me say this though REALLY modeling amps can sound good BUT when
you
> are comparing them to tube amps are you comparing them to a vintage
VOX
> or to a $2,000 Soldano or to a $300 Peavey?
>
Hey come on now, let's go easy on the Peaveys. I'm playing through a
fifteen year old Peavey 50 Classic, and you know what, it's sounds
great. All tube, 50 watts, 410 combo with two 12AX7's and four EL84's.
We've all played through some crappy Peavey solid state stuff. They
made some pretty pathetic garbage it's true, but there are some
diamonds in the ruff. Affordable too. Just because they don't resale
very well doesn't make it crap. They've got some great stuff. We're
talking some pretty big names that play Peavey amps too. Van Halen,
Satriani, Zappa, Clint Black, 3 Doors Down, Tim McGraw, Sevendust,
King's X, Sting, Nickelback, George Strait, Lynard Skynyrd, Kansas, and
actually quite a few more.
General Specific
david morley
> Well, everybody sure BIT on THAT one!!
>
General Specific
I wear my picks out.
iarwain
Funny you should mention picks. Somewhere around 25 years ago I
ordered a box of 100 nylon Herco heavy picks. These, I reasoned, in
addition to the other ones I had already accumulated, would probably be
a lifetime supply (nylon wears pretty well). I've still got that box
of picks and every once in a while I take one out, so they've lasted me
over 25 years - although probably a lot of that has to do with the fact
that I've switched to using mostly Dunlop medium nylon picks.
dim...@yahoo.com
always that way when you say somethign that is the truth and it hurts
people feelings because it is true? People will never get all smart
back with you if you say somethign that isn't true, its' only when you
say somethign that is close to home that they get all defensive. Well
it may be true that I have been only playing 5 years, but at least I am
in a band and play out in front of people all the time. I think a lot
of you guys are just taking a break from playing D&D in your mothers
bastment from the screen names you have on here. either that or you are
someone who played guitar back in the '80's or somethign and like to
read abotu it on here because you don't play in front of people
anymore.
See it's real easy for you to talk to me like I don't know anythign
here on the internet. I don't see any of you being big rockstars though
do I? You are just some guy posting in your moms bastment. I have
played through lots of tube amps too there smart guys. Any not just at
guitar center either. I have played through one of those $1000 vox
amps, and it sounded like poo. Maybe would be good to do the skanking
intro part to smells like teen spirit or something, but not much more
than that. The guy at the store say you need to buy a petal to put in
front of it to make it sound good. I mean WTF!? $1000 and you need a
petal to sound good?
Lots of you say oh well how come you don't see big rockstars playing
modeling amps? Well it's because modeling amps have only been out for 5
years or so smart guy. Give it another year and you will see lots of
them. Everyone I know uses modeling amps, except for one band we opened
for one time (and boy did they suck), and this guy I know from school
(he sucks too). When anyone young makes it big, you can bet they will
be using a modeling amp. I mean I played a Mesa boogie one time and a
VMT Bulldog that sounded better than my amp, but WTF they were $2500!!!
They should sound better for that! A vetta sounds better than my amp
too.
I understand what people say about playign what you like. I like my
amp. I guess if you want to sound like Peter Framton or ZZ Top or
somethign a tube amp is fine for that. I want to have a modern sound,
and only a modeling amp can do that, or maybe a mesa boogie, but they
are too expensive.
GregD
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
I've got some Fender jazz picks from the 70's thta I still use!
Greg
Lowtonejoe
> I see all sorts of sarcastic and smart replys to my post here. Isn't
> always that way when you say somethign that is the truth and it hurts
> people feelings because it is true?
Eh? Feelings? If you proclaimed that Mars was not red, but green you
would have gotten some very similar responses. Your opinion is outlandish.
>People will never get all smart
> back with you if you say somethign that isn't true, its' only when you
> say somethign that is close to home that they get all defensive.
See my above response.
>Well
> it may be true that I have been only playing 5 years, but at least I am
> in a band and play out in front of people all the time. I think a lot
> of you guys are just taking a break from playing D&D in your mothers
> bastment from the screen names you have on here. either that or you are
> someone who played guitar back in the '80's or somethign and like to
> read abotu it on here because you don't play in front of people
> anymore.
Haven't been around this newsgroup long have you? Look, a closed mouth
gathers no foot. O.k.?
>
> See it's real easy for you to talk to me like I don't know anythign
> here on the internet. I don't see any of you being big rockstars though
> do I? You are just some guy posting in your moms bastment. I have
> played through lots of tube amps too there smart guys. Any not just at
> guitar center either. I have played through one of those $1000 vox
> amps, and it sounded like poo. Maybe would be good to do the skanking
> intro part to smells like teen spirit or something, but not much more
> than that. The guy at the store say you need to buy a petal to put in
> front of it to make it sound good. I mean WTF!? $1000 and you need a
> petal to sound good?
The guy at the store? See my above response.
>
> Lots of you say oh well how come you don't see big rockstars playing
> modeling amps? Well it's because modeling amps have only been out for 5
> years or so smart guy. Give it another year and you will see lots of
> them.
It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to
open it and remove all doubt. Quit while you're behind.
>Everyone I know uses modeling amps, except for one band we opened
> for one time (and boy did they suck), and this guy I know from school
> (he sucks too). When anyone young makes it big, you can bet they will
> be using a modeling amp.
See my above response.
>I mean I played a Mesa boogie one time and a
> VMT Bulldog that sounded better than my amp, but WTF they were $2500!!!
> They should sound better for that!
Hey! We agree on something! Maybe we are making progress!
>A vetta sounds better than my amp
> too.
>
Yup, Vettas sound pretty damn good. Another thing we agree on!
> I understand what people say about playign what you like. I like my
> amp. I guess if you want to sound like Peter Framton or ZZ Top or
> somethign a tube amp is fine for that. I want to have a modern sound,
> and only a modeling amp can do that, or maybe a mesa boogie, but they
> are too expensive.
>
So much for progress.
:-(
Joe.
--
Indecision is the key to flexibility. – Jerry Leaton
My Soundclick Website – http://www.soundclick.com/bands/9/joesanchez.htm
My Bud LeCompte Signature Series Bass! –
http://www.lowtones.com/LeCompteJSSM
gtski
> "John Wheaton" wrote:
>
>
>>"General Specific" <brad_p...@yahoo.com> wrote in message...
>>
>>>First off, modeling amps will model the sound of a tube amp, like a
>>>recording on a CD does.
>>>
>
>
>>got those baby`s nice and warm, and you`re pushing them just a bit. You can
>>get to where you play the amp, like you play your guitar. SS player will
>>never know that feeling.
>
>
>
> It *depends*. My SS rig is a modeler, but analog rather than
> digital (Sansamp PSA-1). I also use small and medium tube amps. I
> rarely use "presets".
>
> There is nothing EXACTLY like the spank you get from a loud,
> clean Fender Twin. Neither is there anything EXACTLY like a grinding
> Marshall driving the string under your finger. But there IS something
> that is 96% of that, and it's a properly set up modeling rig.
>
> I've just about decided that the key is to NOT use the
> built-in speaker emulators, instead using a graphic EQ post-preamp to
> get the tone properly shaped. It seems to work with a variety of
> speakers.
>
> For a 96% solution, all in a 4 space rack, it works pretty
> well.
Although I might argue it's 90% vs 96%... I happen to agree with you.
gtski
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
gtski
> He said he's been gigging for 5 years, which may mean playing for 30.
>
> Greg
>
I must've read the wrong post... it said "Playing for 5 years,
gigging for 2.."
And we ALL know, that there simply could NOT be any exageration there.
gtski
NGS
the midst of trying to make my point. To that end the newer PCB fender
though I haven't heard one personally are supposedly not all that great,
this is what I was referring to a thin, tinny, not well made tube amp as
opposed to a substantially made tube amp. Plus if modeling is SO great
how come I've never seen one on stage at a professional concert? Do I
need to get out more or is it just me that only sees tubes amps on stage?
GregD
news:1115670930.df277ff83b2def209acde6de72d5aa22@bubbanews:
> On 9 May 2005 13:29:20 -0700, dim...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>>
>>See it's real easy for you to talk to me like I don't know anythign
>>here on the internet. I don't see any of you being big rockstars though
>>do I? You are just some guy posting in your moms bastment.
>
>
> http://www.soundclick.com/bands/7/howldogmusic.htm
>
>
> no modelling amps on there, anywhere.
>
> you can drop the condescending bullshit atittude too.
>
>
I liked My Boyfriend Earl, but then again I like some of the new nashville
stuff like Gretchen Wilson.
Greg
GregD
@DIALUPUSA.NET:
No, you were right and I was wrong. I tell ya, I need glasses - or maybe
better oens thtn the oens I already wear :)
Greg
ric375
<A. Troll> wrote in message
news:1115652118.3...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> I am new to these boards, but I have noticed all the talk about how
> tube amps are so much better. This is a prime example of how you can't
> believe everyting you read, especially on the internet. I play in a
> band and gig twice a month, sometimes more! And I always use a modeling
> amp with no problems after 2 years of this.
> Of the 30 or so guitatists I know only 2 use tube amps. Everyone else
> uses modeling or solid state amps. I feel that modeling amps are the
> best. Why is it that so many people talk about how great tube amps are,
> and how much better they are when clearly this is not true! I have been
> playing for 5 years, and like I said I have been in a band gigging for
> 2 and have never used anythign but modeling amps and they work great
> for me!
>
And what kind of amps are the modeling amps modeling? Mostly tube amps?
Ever wonder why?
ric375
RichCI
dim4...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I am new to these boards, but I have noticed all the talk about how
> tube amps are so much better. This is a prime example of how you
can't
> believe everyting you read, especially on the internet. I play in a
> band and gig twice a month, sometimes more! And I always use a
modeling
> amp with no problems after 2 years of this.
> Of the 30 or so guitatists I know only 2 use tube amps. Everyone else
> uses modeling or solid state amps. I feel that modeling amps are the
> best. Why is it that so many people talk about how great tube amps
are,
> and how much better they are when clearly this is not true! I have
been
> playing for 5 years, and like I said I have been in a band gigging
for
> 2 and have never used anythign but modeling amps and they work great
> for me!
Tone is subjective - use whatever you like if it makes you happy.
Personally, I like tube amps.
Bazooka-Joe
RichCI wrote:
> Tone is subjective - use whatever you like if it makes you happy.
> Personally, I like tube amps.
Why is this such a difficult concept to grasp?
I just typed out a 3 page response to this "kid" and decided against
posting. Let's stop feeding this troll.
:Bazooka-Joe
John Wheaton
<dim...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:...
>I am new to these boards, but I have noticed all the talk about how
> tube amps are so much better.
At LOW volumes, the modelers seem to be Ok, but at volume, I`ll take my BF
Super Reverb, BF Deluxe Reverb, or BF Princeton. Any of those opened up just
sing!
See ya,
John
Bazooka-Joe
NGS wrote:
> ALL APOLOGIES you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT 100% I made a BIG mistake in
> the midst of trying to make my point.
No problemo man. There's no "correct" or "incorrect" in here, only
opinion.
> To that end the newer PCB fender
> though I haven't heard one personally are supposedly not all that
great,
> this is what I was referring to a thin, tinny, not well made tube amp
as
> opposed to a substantially made tube amp.
I know exactly what you mean.
> Plus if modeling is SO great
> how come I've never seen one on stage at a professional concert? Do
I
> need to get out more or is it just me that only sees tubes amps on
stage?
I'll admit it's quite rare in my experience too. Though I did hear
that Evanescence actually plays with a Vetta head. And No Doubt's
guitarist plays throgh a Flextone III. Outkast's guitarist plays
through a HD147, Ministry's guitarist uses a Pod and a Spider, Rod
Stewart's guitarist uses a Duoverb Combo amp, and one of Slipknot's
guitarists uses a Spider 112 combo. But that's literally all the ones
I know about.
And to his credit The Edge from U2 uses the Line DM4 distortion
stompbox modeler. And so do I. This product I consider to be the best
modeling investment I ever made. The DM4 plus my Peavey 50 Classic is
a great combination.
David
"Bazooka-Joe" <se...@poormanrich.com> wrote in message
news:1115674077.9...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> NGS wrote:
>> ALL APOLOGIES you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT 100% I made a BIG mistake in
>
>> the midst of trying to make my point.
>
> No problemo man. There's no "correct" or "incorrect" in here, only
> opinion.
>
>> To that end the newer PCB fender
>> though I haven't heard one personally are supposedly not all that
> great,
>> this is what I was referring to a thin, tinny, not well made tube amp
> as
>> opposed to a substantially made tube amp.
>
> I know exactly what you mean.
>
>> Plus if modeling is SO great
>> how come I've never seen one on stage at a professional concert? Do
> I
>> need to get out more or is it just me that only sees tubes amps on
> stage?
>
> I'll admit it's quite rare in my experience too. Though I did hear
> that Evanescence actually plays with a Vetta head. And No Doubt's
> guitarist plays throgh a Flextone III. Outkast's guitarist plays
> through a HD147, Ministry's guitarist uses a Pod and a Spider, Rod
> Stewart's guitarist uses a Duoverb Combo amp, and one of Slipknot's
> guitarists uses a Spider 112 combo. But that's literally all the ones
> I know about.
Neil Geraldo, Pat Benetar's guitarist uses a Line 6 head. Not sure which one
though.
Tony Hwang
> believe everyting you read, especially on the internet. I play in a
> band and gig twice a month, sometimes more! And I always use a modeling
> amp with no problems after 2 years of this.
> Of the 30 or so guitatists I know only 2 use tube amps. Everyone else
> uses modeling or solid state amps. I feel that modeling amps are the
> best. Why is it that so many people talk about how great tube amps are,
> and how much better they are when clearly this is not true! I have been
> playing for 5 years, and like I said I have been in a band gigging for
> 2 and have never used anythign but modeling amps and they work great
> for me!
>
For 5 years you only played with modelloing amps? Well then how about
another 5 years playing with tubes amps and come back here, say
something again. I've been playing with tubes for almost 55 years.
Tony
Tony Hwang
Truth? What is it? How about asking your dear president?
Tony
John Wheaton
"David" <jackrabb...@comcast.net> wrote in message >
> Neil Geraldo, Pat Benetar's guitarist uses a Line 6 head. Not sure which
> one though.
>
I saw them in concert about 2 years ago and the sound was horrible. The
worse that I`ve ever heard at a Professional Show. I don`t know if it was
the Modeling Set-up or if the stage volume was too high that it was junk in
the PA, but it was horrible. A little bit later 38 Special sounded great,
Peaveys, and Marshalls! I was able to chat with Donnie Barnes for a while as
well. Nice guy, still playing the `60 DC LP Jr thru a Peavey Tube head into
a Marshall Cab.
See ya,
John
Tony Hwang
Hi,
It's like comparing quartz watch to old fashioned mechanical watch like
IWC, Omega, Patek Phillip, Audema, etc. Modelling amp does not have soul
like quartz watch. I still wear my old Hamilton Khaki daily. It keeps
time almost as good as quartz watch.
Tony
Phil S
> Then YOU don't play enough.
>
> I wear my picks out.
>
Greg Cisko
news:1115663536.0...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Every gutiarist who has ever played in my son's band has used SS/psuedo
> modeling amps - every one of them. But that's par for teenagers who
> simply want loud over anything else. And with only $300 to spend
> instead of $1300, who can argue going SS for loudness and some
> features?
At the age of a teenager? No one can argue...
--
Greg Cisko
news:117vbtu...@corp.supernews.com...
> dim...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Every band that I've seen that uses modeling live seems to lack something.
> Guitars often sound like toys. When there's two guitarists (one tubes,
> one modeling), they are EASY to tell apart. Heck, my wife even comments!
>
> Who's really fooling themselves?
Or like DA-Coach famously said here in chicago some time
ago, "who are you crapping"?
>> Of the 30 or so guitatists I know only 2 use tube amps.
>
> I find that VERY hard to believe.
Maybe they are all in his school or something? I am probably much closer
to your age and have played since in1978. Of the small number of guitarists
I know, I am the only one with an all tube amp that currently is still
playing.
There are many old farts that I work with with vintage tube gear stashed
away, but they do not play. Cheaper solutions seem to rule the day for the
most part. People just getting into it have not gotten it yet.
> Let me ask you this: Of signed artists, what would you guess the ratio of
> modeling to tubes to be? VERY SMALL. Why? TONE.
> I'm glad you recently decided to pick up the guitar. I've been playing
> for about 35 years.
Hey! Street cred!!! Cool 35 years is a definate big deal.
> and like I said I have been in a band gigging for
>> 2 and have never used anythign but modeling amps and they work great
>> for me!
Operative word is "work great for me". People in the audience may think
otherwise...
--
lbrt...@aol.com
> I am new to these boards, but I have noticed all the talk about how
> tube amps are so much better. This is a prime example of how you
can't
> believe everyting you read, especially on the internet. I play in a
> band and gig twice a month, sometimes more! And I always use a
modeling
> amp with no problems after 2 years of this.
> Of the 30 or so guitatists I know only 2 use tube amps. Everyone else
> uses modeling or solid state amps. I feel that modeling amps are the
> best.
Whether one is still a newbie like this guy or been at it over 40
years, there are 2 polarizations that've been with us for that long,
and neither one has meaningfully progressed since its outset; they are:
1) Tube vs SS.
2) Us minority of no-FX players vs the majority pedal-using set.
And the truth for about as long, has been that the better real-life
players of both (or all 4) camps all get to a similar place using
different means.
But I believe we finally face a different issue that is beginning to
eclipse the old & counterproductive standoffs: that the amp really
needed by a present-day serious player doesn't exist irrespective of
how others are made, and that the 60-year era of no basic change in
concept is over. I, for one, am glad to see the coming change, to be
trying to contribute to it, and for the end of the whole
tube/SS/barefoot/FX inadequate ideas that still limit, inconvenience
enslave players in 2005.
Don Evans
"Tony Hwang" <drag...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:eZQfe.1295353$6l.954705@pd7tw2no...
So, let me get this straight ... tube amps are like old mechanical watches,
charming but not as good at keeping time, and modeling amps are like better
performing easier to maintain lower cost quartz watches? Are you sure this
is the analogy you wanted?
Actually, it's a pretty good one. I like my tube amps, but I would very
much like to find something that didn't rely on vanishing technology, and
hopefully wouldn't require as much looking after.
Don
Jim Anable
> I see all sorts of sarcastic and smart replys to my post here. Isn't
> always that way when you say somethign that is the truth and it hurts
> people feelings because it is true?
Nah, it's what happens when a newb comes in and tries to tell
experienced people that they don't know what they're talking about.
People will never get all smart
> back with you if you say somethign that isn't true, its' only when you
> say somethign that is close to home that they get all defensive. Well
> it may be true that I have been only playing 5 years, but at least I am
> in a band and play out in front of people all the time. I think a lot
> of you guys are just taking a break from playing D&D in your mothers
> bastment from the screen names you have on here. either that or you are
> someone who played guitar back in the '80's or somethign and like to
> read abotu it on here because you don't play in front of people
> anymore.
>
> See it's real easy for you to talk to me like I don't know anythign
> here on the internet. I don't see any of you being big rockstars though
> do I? You are just some guy posting in your moms bastment. I have
> played through lots of tube amps too there smart guys. Any not just at
> guitar center either. I have played through one of those $1000 vox
> amps, and it sounded like poo. Maybe would be good to do the skanking
> intro part to smells like teen spirit or something,
$1,000 vox tube amp? ...that sounds like "teen spirit"? Dude, you are
REALLY showing your ignorance! What model Vox was this, anyway?
but not much more
> than that. The guy at the store say you need to buy a petal to put in
> front of it to make it sound good. I mean WTF!? $1000 and you need a
> petal to sound good?
>
> Lots of you say oh well how come you don't see big rockstars playing
> modeling amps? Well it's because modeling amps have only been out for 5
> years or so smart guy. Give it another year and you will see lots of
> them.
Modeling amps are by definition a compromise. They are an attempt to
emulate a tube amp. If tube amps aren't that great, how can an
approximation of tube amps be better? For the ignorant, they might seem
great. For those experienced on tube amps, they usually feel like toys.
They don't have the touch sensitivity and dynamics with associated
compression as real tube amps. If you had real experience on tube amps,
you'd know what I'm talking about.
As for tone of responses to your troll, check your subject line, and
tone of your original post. By our standards your are a wet behind the
ears newbie attempting to tell experienced people that they've got it
all wrong. My bet? Chances are, some day you will end up using tubes!
It'll be a LONG, LONG time before the real pro's give up on tubes. The
ones that do will do so out of convenience. The first ones to do it
will be the ones that value their tone the least. As technology
increases, more guys will go SS. But always remember: modeling amps
are pretending to be tube amps. Do you want the real thing, or a poser?
Everyone I know uses modeling amps, except for one band we opened
> for one time (and boy did they suck), and this guy I know from school
> (he sucks too). When anyone young makes it big, you can bet they will
> be using a modeling amp. I mean I played a Mesa boogie one time and a
> VMT Bulldog that sounded better than my amp, but WTF they were $2500!!!
> They should sound better for that! A vetta sounds better than my amp
> too.
Oh, so some tube amps ARE better? I though we were "kidding" ourselves!
FYI, I play a vintage Marshall JMP 2204, a Super Reverb tweaked by
one of the best techs around, and a Mesa Boogie blue stripe Mark III.
...and you're trying to tell me that I'm kidding myself about tubes
being better? C'mon now!
Look, by the tone and cockiness of your message, I'd guess your age to
be 17 to 19, give or take a couple of years. Whether you are attempting
a troll, or just being foolish, you could use these forums as a great
source of information to LEARN ...but if you come in and take a dump in
the middle of the room, nobody will want to associate with you.
>
> I understand what people say about playign what you like. I like my
> amp. I guess if you want to sound like Peter Framton or ZZ Top or
> somethign a tube amp is fine for that.
Think about what you just wrote. The music on the radio was played on
TUBE amps. Modelers try to sound like TUBE amps. How many TUBE amps
try to sound solid state???
Let's approach this from another standpoint. Name your ten favorite
guitarists of all time. How many of them use modeling amps? (I can see
him now, going to the internet and trying to come up with ten guitarists
that use modeling amps...).
I want to have a modern sound,
> and only a modeling amp can do that,
What do you define as "modern sound?" Name ten bands. Okay, now, how
many of them use modeling amps?
Look at what you just wrote. You wrote that ONLY a modeling amp will do
"modern sound." But a modeling amp is just pretending to be a tube
amp. Do you see the problem with your logic?
or maybe a mesa boogie, but they
> are too expensive.
There are plenty of guys that could've bought a Mesa with the money that
they blew on modeling crap, stomp boxes, etc. How many guys bought a
POD. Then a Pro. Then and XT. Plus an early Line 6. Then a later
one... Then a modeling pedal. Then another...
Meanwhile, most of us were enjoying our tube amps.
Look, if you are in love with modeling amps, fine! Count yourself
lucky, life will be simpler for you. But don't come here and say "you
guys are kidding yourselves."
Greg Cisko
news:1115666959.1...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Well, everybody sure BIT on THAT one!!
What are you saying? Every post here asking beginner questions
is a troll?
--
Greg Cisko
news:tdydnRcWmcH...@comcast.com...
What happens at high volume? Does it clean up?
--
Greg Cisko
> Hmmm,
> For 5 years you only played with modelloing amps? Well then how about
> another 5 years playing with tubes amps and come back here, say something
> again. I've been playing with tubes for almost 55 years.
OK 55 years is better street cred... Wow.
--
Jim Anable
> On 9 May 2005 13:07:07 -0700, "Bazooka-Joe" <se...@poormanrich.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>NGS wrote:
>>
>>>Let me say this though REALLY modeling amps can sound good BUT when
>>
>>you
>>
>>>are comparing them to tube amps are you comparing them to a vintage
>>
>>VOX
>>
>>>or to a $2,000 Soldano or to a $300 Peavey?
>>>
>>
>>Hey come on now, let's go easy on the Peaveys. I'm playing through a
>>fifteen year old Peavey 50 Classic, and you know what, it's sounds
>>great.
>
>
>
> Peaveys are great, especially the Classic line. I've never heard a
> modelling amp thru a PA or anything that, to me, sounded anywhere as
> good as a Classic 30 turned up good and loud.
I'm certainly not aware of any modeling power section that can beat my
Peavey Classic 60/60. Four 6L6GC for two times 60W RMS of tube sound.
As for tubes being cost prohibitive, they go on ebay for around $250!
You can add your choice of a dozen different tube preamps in the $150 or
so range. Top it off with a used quality 4x12, your rig rings up for
about the same price as a modeling amp and a pedal or two.
Many owners of modeling amps would soil their knickers trying to compete
with such a rig in a live stage situation. The real thing, vs. a poser.
>
> Just my opinion.
>
> No need to slag on old Hartley, tho.
>
>
>
>
uncle_meat
>dim...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> I am new to these boards, but I have noticed all the talk about how
>> tube amps are so much better. This is a prime example of how you can't
>> believe everyting you read, especially on the internet. I play in a
>> band and gig twice a month, sometimes more! And I always use a modeling
>> amp with no problems after 2 years of this.
>> Of the 30 or so guitatists I know only 2 use tube amps. Everyone else
>> uses modeling or solid state amps. I feel that modeling amps are the
>> best. Why is it that so many people talk about how great tube amps are,
>> and how much better they are when clearly this is not true! I have been
>> playing for 5 years, and like I said I have been in a band gigging for
>> 2 and have never used anythign but modeling amps and they work great
>> for me!
>>
>I prefer smaller real boobies but some guys like the big fake ones or if
>you got the cash you can just buy one of the $3,000 boutique amps.
>
>Let me say this though REALLY modeling amps can sound good BUT when you
>are comparing them to tube amps are you comparing them to a vintage VOX
>or to a $2,000 Soldano or to a $300 Peavey?
>
>If you compared your modeling amp (good as it is) to a Marshall Lead 50
>fromt he 70's or a black face Bassman I'm sorry BUT your modeling amp
>would sound like sun dried shit on a stick. Though it would sound good,
>it would not sound AWESOME, all the rich harmonics and distortions the
>tube amps make is missing.
you only been playin 5 year so ur ears are not tuned to the nuances of
the tube amp.....after you have played for 30 or so years and been
standing in front of screaming marshals and fenders played at mind
numbing volumes for that many years ur ears kinda get tuned to the
hearing of the special tube magic.....plus being a older dude ur
wallet gets tuned to the prices of those booteek amps as well....
my 2c worth
uncle_meat
Jim Anable
Where was his question? I just saw a newb telling me that I'm kidding
myself if I prefer my JMP 2204, Super Reverb and Mesa to his modeling
amp (which he didn't even name, leading me to believe it may be all troll).
Jim Anable
I still have some 70's era celluloid fender picks with cracks, chips,
etc. Since switching to Dunlop, I've never broken one.
Greg Cisko
news:1115670560.4...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>I see all sorts of sarcastic and smart replys to my post here. Isn't
Not surprising really.
> always that way when you say somethign that is the truth and it hurts
> people feelings because it is true? People will never get all smart
Truth that tube amps are inferior to something made to model and
emulate them? Yeah right that is rich. Get for real already.
> back with you if you say somethign that isn't true, its' only when you
> say somethign that is close to home that they get all defensive. Well
> it may be true that I have been only playing 5 years, but at least I am
> in a band and play out in front of people all the time. I think a lot
Well I do not think you are the lone ranger there ace. Lots of people
play infront of lots of people.
> of you guys are just taking a break from playing D&D in your mothers
> bastment from the screen names you have on here. either that or you are
> someone who played guitar back in the '80's or somethign and like to
> read abotu it on here because you don't play in front of people
> anymore.
Lots of people that used to play infront of people are into recording
now or casual playing. Doesn't lower their expertise. In fact you
would do well to learn something from a few of them.
> See it's real easy for you to talk to me like I don't know anythign
> here on the internet. I don't see any of you being big rockstars though
Well you don't know anything if you are saying that tube amps are inferior
to something made to model and emulate them. I just like to see that
repeated. It is the funniest thing I have seen it quite some while.
> do I? You are just some guy posting in your moms bastment. I have
Many of us have had our parents pass away. We can not always rely
on mommy and daddy to take care of us.
> played through lots of tube amps too there smart guys. Any not just at
> guitar center either. I have played through one of those $1000 vox
> amps, and it sounded like poo. Maybe would be good to do the skanking
> intro part to smells like teen spirit or something, but not much more
> than that. The guy at the store say you need to buy a petal to put in
> front of it to make it sound good. I mean WTF!? $1000 and you need a
> petal to sound good?
In my opinion that would be because you were looking at a vox.
my apologies to any vox lovers. I am a marshall snob, sorry :-)
> Lots of you say oh well how come you don't see big rockstars playing
> modeling amps? Well it's because modeling amps have only been out for 5
> years or so smart guy. Give it another year and you will see lots of
> them. Everyone I know uses modeling amps, except for one band we opened
> for one time (and boy did they suck), and this guy I know from school
> (he sucks too). When anyone young makes it big, you can bet they will
> be using a modeling amp. I mean I played a Mesa boogie one time and a
> VMT Bulldog that sounded better than my amp, but WTF they were $2500!!!
> They should sound better for that! A vetta sounds better than my amp
> too.
>
> I understand what people say about playign what you like. I like my
> amp. I guess if you want to sound like Peter Framton or ZZ Top or
> somethign a tube amp is fine for that. I want to have a modern sound,
> and only a modeling amp can do that, or maybe a mesa boogie, but they
> are too expensive.
But hold on a second ace. I thought your whole deal here is that modeling
was better than tube. Price never came into it from what I heard. Sorry
you are just completely busted...
--
nm...@wt.net
it may be true that I have been only playing 5 years, but at least I am
And that means???? I've been playing since 1977, and hardly
ever play in front of people...Does this mean you will smoke my
ass by default? As far as gear, if it works, it works...It's that
simple
really... I don't care if it's tubes, SS, digi, smidgi...If it works,
it works..
But "works" means different things to different people...
MK
Greg Cisko
OK good point. It should be fun to flam him/her then ;-)
--
John Wheaton
"Tony Hwang" <drag...@shaw.ca> wrote in message > Hi,
> Truth? What is it? How about asking your dear president?
> Tony
Come on Tony. There are plenty of OT threads for that!
See ya,
John
Jim Anable
Vanishing? There are plenty of tubes being produced. More than a few
years ago. And the good news? There are still plenty of good QUALITY
U.S., British and German tubes out there!
As for amps? I see more tube models on the market all the time.
SS and modeling with grab the low end "entry" market with no problem.
For those who insist on tone, tubes are here through our life times, at
least.
and
> hopefully wouldn't require as much looking after.
A good tube amp really doesn't need that much maintenance. In vintage
amps, some of the issues are unrelated to tubes, such as carbon comp
resistors. New tube amps won't have that problem. Tubes need to be
replaced and biased, but (other than EL84) not that often. Pick up a
good used Mullard preamp tube, and you're probably set for at least 5
years of heavy play. Change filter caps every 20 years or so...
>
> Don
>
>
Jim Anable
> "Jim Anable" <j...@seattle-attorney.com> wrote in message
> news:117vbtu...@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>dim...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>Every band that I've seen that uses modeling live seems to lack something.
>>Guitars often sound like toys. When there's two guitarists (one tubes,
>>one modeling), they are EASY to tell apart. Heck, my wife even comments!
>>
>>Who's really fooling themselves?
>
>
> Or like DA-Coach famously said here in chicago some time
> ago, "who are you crapping"?
>
>
>>>Of the 30 or so guitatists I know only 2 use tube amps.
>>
>>I find that VERY hard to believe.
>
>
> Maybe they are all in his school or something? I am probably much closer
> to your age and have played since in1978. Of the small number of guitarists
> I know, I am the only one with an all tube amp that currently is still
> playing.
> There are many old farts that I work with with vintage tube gear stashed
> away, but they do not play. Cheaper solutions seem to rule the day for the
> most part. People just getting into it have not gotten it yet.
I don't know. The vast majority of bands that I see still use tube
amps. ...and I'm talking both local eeking to get by bands, and big
time national act bands.
John Wheaton
"Greg Cisko" <gci...@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>
>> At LOW volumes, the modelers seem to be Ok, but at volume, I`ll take my
>> BF Super Reverb, BF Deluxe Reverb, or BF Princeton. Any of those opened
>> up just sing!
>
> What happens at high volume? Does it clean up?
>
dynamics, to the point where you can "play" the tube amp as well as your
guitar. The harmonics in Tube Distortion are also different.
See ya,
John
Greg Cisko
>> A good tube amp really doesn't need that much maintenance. In vintage
> amps, some of the issues are unrelated to tubes, such as carbon comp
> resistors. New tube amps won't have that problem. Tubes need to be
> replaced and biased, but (other than EL84) not that often. Pick up a good
> used Mullard preamp tube, and you're probably set for at least 5
Or get a set of 4 from some 1967 Vox amp where the genious just
wanted it retubed. Hehe :-)
--
Greg Cisko
news:1115679913.4...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> And that means???? I've been playing since 1977, and hardly
> ever play in front of people...Does this mean you will smoke my
> ass by default? As far as gear, if it works, it works...It's that
Sounds like we are all gonna get smoked by the kid. I am
getting ready to ask for some mp3 file from his band or
something. It is about time for "put up or shut up"!
--
BluesView
> He said he's been gigging for 5 years, which may mean playing for 30.
>
> Greg
>
He said playing for 5 years, gigging for 2.
BV
Guncho
> people feelings because it is true? People will never get all smart
you
> it may be true that I have been only playing 5 years, but at least I
am
> of you guys are just taking a break from playing D&D in your mothers
> bastment from the screen names you have on here. either that or you
are
> someone who played guitar back in the '80's or somethign and like to
> read abotu it on here because you don't play in front of people
> anymore.
>
> here on the internet. I don't see any of you being big rockstars
though
at
> guitar center either. I have played through one of those $1000 vox
> amps, and it sounded like poo. Maybe would be good to do the skanking
> intro part to smells like teen spirit or something, but not much more
> than that. The guy at the store say you need to buy a petal to put in
> front of it to make it sound good. I mean WTF!? $1000 and you need a
> petal to sound good?
>
> modeling amps? Well it's because modeling amps have only been out for
5
> years or so smart guy. Give it another year and you will see lots of
> them. Everyone I know uses modeling amps, except for one band we
opened
> for one time (and boy did they suck), and this guy I know from school
> (he sucks too). When anyone young makes it big, you can bet they will
> be using a modeling amp. I mean I played a Mesa boogie one time and a
> VMT Bulldog that sounded better than my amp, but WTF they were
$2500!!!
> They should sound better for that! A vetta sounds better than my amp
> too.
>
> I understand what people say about playign what you like. I like my
> amp. I guess if you want to sound like Peter Framton or ZZ Top or
> somethign a tube amp is fine for that. I want to have a modern sound,
> and only a modeling amp can do that, or maybe a mesa boogie, but they
> are too expensive.
Hahahahahh
Are you still in high school?
Let's end this right here. Let's see if you can walk the walk instead
of just talk the talk. Post a link to you playing guitar or shut the
hell up.
If you don't have the balls to do this I would recommend no one ever
respond to anything you say again.
Chris
dim...@yahoo.com
>
> And what kind of amps are the modeling amps modeling? Mostly tube
amps?
> Ever wonder why?
>
> ric375
Because that is what people are used to. I mean it's what has been
around before there were modeling amps OF COURSE the modeling amps will
have to start from something. What do you expect them to do, make an
amp full of 15 or 30 totally new guitar tones different from anything
that came before? How would people cover all the old songs from when
all there were was tube amps?
There are some amp models in a lot of the modeling amps that don't
emulate but are new amps sounds, though. In the future you can expect
to see modeling amps that have all sorts of sounds that weren't
possible with primitave technology like in the '80's.
dim...@yahoo.com
an opinion here to don't you, well no one said you were the only one
that could have an opinion were they??
Free America!
Chris M wrote:
> LOL, I have picks older than that. :>)
>
dim...@yahoo.com
rows and rows of marshall stacks like you see in videos, but they
aren't real stacks they are just fake.
I mean how can you tell what gear someone is really using?
Also, people endorse all sorts of things but then that doesn't always
mean they use them, now does it? I bet you that all sorts of bands are
using things like amp farm, and computer modelers in the studio to get
the perfect sound - a sound that maybe they coudl get from tube amps
but that would take a long time to set up and to get right, but later
they will say they use a marshall, because marshall writes them a big
fat check.