Gypsy jazz guitars, your opinions please...
Scotty
very long time now and I'm venturing out into buying an actual oval hole for
the first time. There was a guitar forsale by a nice guy named Marco who
had a Sandner oval hole, but I have been unable to get any history or info
regarding the construction and quality, I even asked America's expert at
gypsyguitars.com and turned up nothing. Anyone have any info on this
maker?? We discussed laminates VS solid wood construction and he states
that the original Selmers were laminates and it's an integral part of the
gypsy guitar sound... He also has a Gerome arched (I'm a sucker) top and
bak guitar, but as an American born and bred player/buyer, I find it's
difficult for me to overcome my left side to drop $1850.00 on a laminated
back, sides and top guitar! Your opinions??
So I would like to hear from any players, builders or informed people on
this subject please.
My only experience with a so called gypsy guitar is an 80's Saga oval hole
the was the stiffest POS acoustic I've ever played. I do own several
vintage Gibson acoustics (J-45, J-50, L00, J-185, L4-P, SJ-100, Southern
Jumbo and a Martin D-18) and find that while I love american acoustic
guitars and my f hole is a real screamer, I just cannot achieve that sweet
mid range and cutting treble with my guitars, even though I doubt most
realize the tonal differences live.
Some of the guitars I have looked at are Dell Arte, Favino (out of price
range), Gerome, Park and Dunn. I would like to buy a good quality used one
in the $1000.00 to $1500.00 and if I cannot find what I want, my only
alternative is to buy a crappy Saga, get the specs and have my luthier build
me one with a 25.5 scale instead of the longer 26.5.
Any help would be appreciated... BTW, my site has been long over due to be
updated but will be on wednesday night....
Thanks
Scotty
http://www.proanalog.com Your source for used and vintage effects!
Stephane Boucher
Dupont: over priced
Del Arte: pretty accurate copies. I would however not expect a bomb in
the lower price range of what they offer.
Park: out of your price range. Nice craftman ship. A bit bassier
than what is usually considered the selmer sound. (I have an Oval hole)
DiMauro (RIP): You might find a used one. Note however that sound
varies quite a bit. I have one of those with an oval hole, but mine
sounded different than the one played by the "Swing 99 Trio" guy.
DiMauro tend to be brighter sounding guitars, with less bass, I
believe.
Gerome: Not really the same thing as a Selmer
Dunn: I'm told they don't sound like selmers.
You might want to check the web site of Francois Charles. When I was
in Paris, he had a Mazaux (not sure of the spelling). He's new to
this, and as a result the prices are still low. Patrick Saussois'
current #1 is from this guy.
There are of course other builders from europe. John LeVoi (uk) and
Leo Eimer (holland. makes the Stochelo Rosenberg signature guitar).
come to mind, but they might be out of your price range. There might
be Killy something... that might build you one for cheap. He makes
the tail pieces that Shelley Park uses.
I would avoid building an oval hole without the selmer scale. Who
knows how it's gonna sound?
Neck size and shape varies quite a bit. My DiMauro is a
baseball bat type of neck, but narrower than my Park. My Park however
has a thinner neck.
Also, if you plan on using a Stimer pickup, be aware that such pickup
will not necessarily fit on all selmer type guitars. If you are
having one built for you, explicitly state that you want a stimer to
fit.
Regarding laminate back and side, yes most selmers where that way. My
DiMauro is laminate back and side, and my Park is solid back and side.
--
Scotty
Stephane Boucher wrote:
> Dupont: over priced
>
> Del Arte: pretty accurate copies. I would however not expect a bomb in
> the lower price range of what they offer.
I'm just looking at the Dark Eyes model.... You play one?
>
> Park: out of your price range. Nice craftman ship. A bit bassier
> than what is usually considered the selmer sound. (I have an Oval hole)
Whats the price range on these and is there a site for Shelly's guitars?
>
> DiMauro (RIP): You might find a used one. Note however that sound
> varies quite a bit. I have one of those with an oval hole, but mine
> sounded different than the one played by the "Swing 99 Trio" guy.
> DiMauro tend to be brighter sounding guitars, with less bass, I
> believe.
>
> Gerome: Not really the same thing as a Selmer
No but all laminate, 26.5 scale, pronounced hole, loud and sippose to play
well. $1850.00 is a lot for an all laminate guitar IMO.
>
> Dunn: I'm told they don't sound like selmers.
Played one with a cedar top, wasn't overly impressed with it, way high
action and kind of rough around the edges. I tried one at the Indiana
guitar show in 1998...
>
> You might want to check the web site of Francois Charles. When I was
> in Paris, he had a Mazaux (not sure of the spelling). He's new to
> this, and as a result the prices are still low. Patrick Saussois'
> current #1 is from this guy.
url?
>
> There are of course other builders from europe. John LeVoi (uk) and
> Leo Eimer (holland. makes the Stochelo Rosenberg signature guitar).
I've heard of John and Eimer, got urls on them??
> come to mind, but they might be out of your price range.
Actually, money isn't an issue, but since it'll be my first oval hole, I
want to stayed int he used catergory like I said in the post. That way in
case it isn't for *me* I won' be so disappointed in speanding $1500.00 for
one and keep on swingin on the L-4
There might
> be Killy something... that might build you one for cheap. He makes
> the tail pieces that Shelley Park uses.
>
> I would avoid building an oval hole without the selmer scale. Who
> knows how it's gonna sound?
I can't see a 26.5 scale have a lot of bass response and the Dell Arte Dark
Eyes is a 25.5, right?? Once again, just me and my American guitar
tradition culture to get over.
>
> Neck size and shape varies quite a bit. My DiMauro is a
> baseball bat type of neck, but narrower than my Park. My Park however
> has a thinner neck.
Big fat necks = big tone, IMHO. With your guitar, does yours have the steel
reinforced rods in the neck with a maghogany/maple/mahogany laminate or a
modern truss rod??
>
> Also, if you plan on using a Stimer pickup, be aware that such pickup
> will not necessarily fit on all selmer type guitars. If you are
> having one built for you, explicitly state that you want a stimer to
> fit.
thanks, but my years of playing acoustics has lead me to believe thatthe
best tone is straight inot the mic. I know the Stimers are the way to the
vintage gypsy tone, but I don't think I can hang with pickup and cord
hanging down. I'm in motion when playing and tapping my foot and had a
frustratuing experience with a hole mounted P/U years ago and haven't gone
back.
>
> Regarding laminate back and side, yes most selmers where that way. My
> DiMauro is laminate back and side, and my Park is solid back and side.
OK, give me the sonic tonal differences you hear in each when comparing
them, please?? Is the laminate a bit more tinny or trebly and the solid
wood construction have more bass and louder mids?? What are the palyability
differences and which is your fave, if you have one?
Stephane Boucher
> Stephane Boucher wrote:
> I'm just looking at the Dark Eyes model.... You play one?
Only upside down, so I can't pass a good judgment.
> Whats the price range on these and is there a site for Shelly's
> guitars?
Now starts at 2800$US I believe.
> No but all laminate, 26.5 scale, pronounced hole, loud and sippose
> to play well. $1850.00 is a lot for an all laminate guitar IMO.
Well, an ES-175 is an all laminated guitar :-) There are also all
sorts of Gerome out there, so I don't know which one you are refering
to.
> url?
>> There are of course other builders from europe. John LeVoi (uk)
>> and Leo Eimer (holland. makes the Stochelo Rosenberg signature
>> guitar).
> I've heard of John and Eimer, got urls on them??
http://www.levoi.freeserve.co.uk
http://www.eimers-guitars.nl/
> I can't see a 26.5 scale have a lot of bass response and the Dell
> Arte Dark Eyes is a 25.5, right??
I believe the Dark Eyes - if this is an oval hole model - has the long
scale. I'm not aware of anyone building short scale with oval
hole... although some selmer have been built that way around the time
they switched to oval hole and they had some short neck left. The D
hole's traditional scale is the short one. D hole models are also now
built with a long scale. You can see a description of the 3 variants
on Shelley Park's web site.
> Big fat necks = big tone, IMHO. With your guitar, does yours have
> the steel reinforced rods in the neck with a
> maghogany/maple/mahogany laminate or a modern truss rod??
My Park has an adjustable truss rod and his made of 2 pieces of walnut
with an ebony fingerboard. The truss rod is however hard to get to
inside the body.
The DiMauro has the truss rod adjustment at the nut.
> thanks, but my years of playing acoustics has lead me to believe
> thatthe best tone is straight inot the mic. I know the Stimers are
> the way to the vintage gypsy tone, but I don't think I can hang with
> pickup and cord hanging down. I'm in motion when playing and
> tapping my foot and had a frustratuing experience with a hole
> mounted P/U years ago and haven't gone back.
Strictly speaking it is not mounted in the hole. It is stuck on the
top (not permanently. I can tell you that when I put mine on, it's
not going anywhere.
> OK, give me the sonic tonal differences you hear in each when
> comparing them, please?? Is the laminate a bit more tinny or trebly
> and the solid wood construction have more bass and louder mids??
> What are the palyability differences and which is your fave, if you
> have one?
It's hard for me to compare a DiMauro with a Park. The DiMauro has
one layer of maple on the laminate, the guitar's shape is slightly
different than the Park. The top is bent differently, and the bracing
are likely not exactly the same.
I think the Park is more of a tone machine. It has more bass. I feel
the entire guitar vibrating when I play it. The guitar is also
lighter. One day, when I find a postal scale (inside joke) I'll have
to weigh it. I string the Park with argentine .010, and it's plenty
loud. I put .011 on the DiMauro. Those aren't string gauge you'd
think of putting on a Martin. But that's what you put on selmer type
instruments. As a result the action will tend to be higher on those
guitars.
The DiMauro works nicely with a Stimer the reduced bass response helps
in that regard in my opinion.
As for playability, I'm not that picky. I do like wider necks, as it
gives more room for chords... but too wide, and you can't wrap your
thumb over. For rythm, I think both are ok for the feel. For lead,
I'd give an edge to the thinner Park neck. But this is all a matter
of preference and what you are used to. If, say, you swear by Martin,
and want a Martin D-28 neck, then you could have one built that way
for you.
One final note: If you buy used, make sure you have a luthier you
trust go over the instrument. It is very hard to work inside an oval
hole guitar. Sometimes, the only way to fix a problem is to retop an
instrument due to that poor access... So make sure you know what you
buy.
--
Scotty
Stephane Boucher <s...@cisco.com> wrote in message >
>
> > I'm just looking at the Dark Eyes model.... You play one?
>
> Only upside down, so I can't pass a good judgment.
Lefty?
>
> > Whats the price range on these and is there a site for Shelly's
> > guitars?
>
> Now starts at 2800$US I believe.
Hmmm...
>
> http://www.parkguitars.com/
thanks...
>
> > No but all laminate, 26.5 scale, pronounced hole, loud and sippose
> > to play well. $1850.00 is a lot for an all laminate guitar IMO.
>
> Well, an ES-175 is an all laminated guitar :-)
LOL, no not really... good one though and my 1949 L4-P is basically a 175
without the pickups...
There are also all
> sorts of Gerome out there, so I don't know which one you are refering
> to.
http://www.gypsyguitars.com and it's the ALL laminate arched top andback
guitar inthe other gategory...
>
> > url?
>
> http://www.rfcharle.com/
thanks...
>
> >> There are of course other builders from europe. John LeVoi (uk)
> >> and Leo Eimer (holland. makes the Stochelo Rosenberg signature
> >> guitar).
>
> > I've heard of John and Eimer, got urls on them??
>
> http://www.levoi.freeserve.co.uk
> http://www.eimers-guitars.nl/
thanks again...
>
> > I can't see a 26.5 scale have a lot of bass response and the Dell
> > Arte Dark Eyes is a 25.5, right??
>
> I believe the Dark Eyes - if this is an oval hole model - has the long
> scale. I'm not aware of anyone building short scale with oval
> hole... although some selmer have been built that way around the time
> they switched to oval hole and they had some short neck left. The D
> hole's traditional scale is the short one. D hole models are also now
> built with a long scale. You can see a description of the 3 variants
> on Shelley Park's web site.
Tankz again...
>
> > Big fat necks = big tone, IMHO. With your guitar, does yours have
> > the steel reinforced rods in the neck with a
> > maghogany/maple/mahogany laminate or a modern truss rod??
>
> My Park has an adjustable truss rod and his made of 2 pieces of walnut
> with an ebony fingerboard. The truss rod is however hard to get to
> inside the body.
>
> The DiMauro has the truss rod adjustment at the nut.
I've seen many of guitars with the multi lam with rods for reinforcement.
Least you won't have to plain the board and refret if the neck dips inthe
future with a tross rod;-) Tonal differences may vary, I dunno...
>
> > thanks, but my years of playing acoustics has lead me to believe
> > thatthe best tone is straight inot the mic. I know the Stimers are
> > the way to the vintage gypsy tone, but I don't think I can hang with
> > pickup and cord hanging down. I'm in motion when playing and
> > tapping my foot and had a frustratuing experience with a hole
> > mounted P/U years ago and haven't gone back.
>
> Strictly speaking it is not mounted in the hole. It is stuck on the
> top (not permanently. I can tell you that when I put mine on, it's
> not going anywhere.
is it in way at anytime when performing??
>
> > OK, give me the sonic tonal differences you hear in each when
> > comparing them, please?? Is the laminate a bit more tinny or trebly
> > and the solid wood construction have more bass and louder mids??
> > What are the palyability differences and which is your fave, if you
> > have one?
>
> It's hard for me to compare a DiMauro with a Park. The DiMauro has
> one layer of maple on the laminate, the guitar's shape is slightly
> different than the Park. The top is bent differently, and the bracing
> are likely not exactly the same.
Ah... luthier difference with the same design in mind. Is your DiMaurio a
50's or more recent??
>
> I think the Park is more of a tone machine. It has more bass. I feel
> the entire guitar vibrating when I play it. The guitar is also
> lighter.
Is the PArk pretty loud when performing and does it really "standout" when
soloing??
One day, when I find a postal scale (inside joke) I'll have
> to weigh it. I string the Park with argentine .010, and it's plenty
> loud. I put .011 on the DiMauro.
one more stiff than the other or the same??
Those aren't string gauge you'd
> think of putting on a Martin.
Ah, yes I know. I only own one Martin D-18 and most of my Gibsons are
strung with 13 gauge with the L4 a hybrid 13/14...
But that's what you put on selmer type
> instruments. As a result the action will tend to be higher on those
> guitars.
I like a medium action, but not really high enough to use a capo. Few of
the bluegrass guys around here capo all over the neck and have quite high
action as a result to not have the strings fret out...
>
> The DiMauro works nicely with a Stimer the reduced bass response helps
> in that regard in my opinion.
>
> As for playability, I'm not that picky. I do like wider necks, as it
> gives more room for chords... but too wide, and you can't wrap your
> thumb over. For rythm, I think both are ok for the feel. For lead,
> I'd give an edge to the thinner Park neck. But this is all a matter
> of preference and what you are used to.
thanks
If, say, you swear by Martin,
> and want a Martin D-28 neck, then you could have one built that way
> for you.
I do not swear by Martin, I'm only an old Gibson acoustic guy with big necks
and great tone! Nice to know you can custom order a neck from an American
company though...
>
> One final note: If you buy used, make sure you have a luthier you
> trust go over the instrument. It is very hard to work inside an oval
> hole guitar. Sometimes, the only way to fix a problem is to retop an
> instrument due to that poor access... So make sure you know what you
> buy.
Over the last 15 years I've bought 35 or so old acoustics but never a Selmer
type. Thanks for advice;-)
Stephane Boucher
>>>>> "Scotty" == Scotty <sco...@proanalog.com> writes:
>> Only upside down, so I can't pass a good judgment.
> Lefty?
Yep.
> There are also all
>> sorts of Gerome out there, so I don't know which one you are
>> refering to.
> http://www.gypsyguitars.com and it's the ALL laminate arched top
> andback guitar inthe other gategory...
Yeah. It's probably as close as you'll get from Gerome. I wouldn't
by this myself. But then again, Sami Daussat from the Minor Swing
quartet has one of those.
> thanks again...
You are very polite. Maybe a little bit too much for rmmg.
> I've seen many of guitars with the multi lam with rods for
> reinforcement. Least you won't have to plain the board and refret
> if the neck dips inthe future with a tross rod;-)
truss or tross?
> Tonal differences may vary, I dunno...
I doubt to many builders today use non-adjustable rods. If you
absolutely want non-adjustable rod, get yourself a selmer. In fact, I
think Stochelo's selmer is for sale. 30k$US :-).
>> Strictly speaking it is not mounted in the hole. It is stuck on
>> the top (not permanently. I can tell you that when I put mine on,
>> it's not going anywhere.
> is it in way at anytime when performing??
Well, normally on that type of guitar you pick just behind the hole,
closer to the bridge. A stimer pickup is typically installed near the
neck. In this case, it's far out of the way. But depending on the
guitar, you may have to mount the pickup farther away fromthe neck.
Then, it may get out of the way. Mind you, I've seen Angelo Debarre
as close as possible to the bridge, while staying over the hole.
Then, your picking hand is very close to the pickup.
> Ah... luthier difference with the same design in mind. Is your
> DiMaurio a 50's or more recent??
My DiMauro is a '92, built for Patrick Saussois. I guess he
eventually got sick of it and I bought it :-) Patrick also sold his
25years old Favino last year. So it is possible to get tired of any
instrument.
> Is the PArk pretty loud when performing and does it really
> "standout" when soloing??
Well, keep in mind that what you are talking about has as much to do
with the guitar as it has with the player's picking technique. Also,
I'm mostly playing rythm right now, so can't comment on soloing. But
it's plenty loud.
But a good picking hand on those guitars is a must. Guys like
Stochelo Rosenberg and Angelo Debarre have incredible picking hands.
> One day, when I find a postal scale (inside joke) I'll have
>> to weigh it. I string the Park with argentine .010, and it's
>> plenty loud. I put .011 on the DiMauro.
> one more stiff than the other or the same??
Both guitars are the same scale length. Some guitars may like better
different gauge. But for me, I like better the .010. I put .011 on
the DiMauro to keep me honest :-) So, as a result, my DiMauro has a
stiffer feel. But keep please keep in mind the longer scale lenght
before you call me a wimp :-)
> Ah, yes I know. I only own one Martin D-18 and most of my Gibsons
> are strung with 13 gauge with the L4 a hybrid 13/14...
Then you'll probably be happy with .011 for a selmer type.
> I do not swear by Martin, I'm only an old Gibson acoustic guy with
> big necks and great tone! Nice to know you can custom order a neck
> from an American company though...
Well, calling Shelley Park a company might be a stretch :-) Even Dell
Arte is fairly small.
BTW, the Martin was just an example. I know a fellow who spec'ed the
neck of his shelley park like his Charlie Christian guitar.
> Over the last 15 years I've bought 35 or so old acoustics but never
> a Selmer type. Thanks for advice;-)
I didn't mean to sound condescending. Just wanted to point out that
oval hole type of guitars can be tricky to fix if there's a structural
problem. But then again, the same could be said of F holes guitar I
guess.
--
Scotty
Stephane Boucher > writes:
>
> >> Only upside down, so I can't pass a good judgment.
>
> > Lefty?
>
> Yep.
Cool, love the left side...
>
> > There are also all
> >> sorts of Gerome out there, so I don't know which one you are
> >> refering to.
>
> > http://www.gypsyguitars.com and it's the ALL laminate arched top
> > andback guitar inthe other gategory...
>
> Yeah. It's probably as close as you'll get from Gerome. I wouldn't
> by this myself. But then again, Sami Daussat from the Minor Swing
> quartet has one of those.
Thanks for your honest answer.
>
> > thanks again...
>
> You are very polite. Maybe a little bit too much for rmmg.
Thanks for the compliment, I try to be unless you are say, the Hamster, then
you are dead meat! <G>
>
> > I've seen many of guitars with the multi lam with rods for
> > reinforcement. Least you won't have to plain the board and refret
> > if the neck dips inthe future with a tross rod;-)
>
> truss or tross?
Spell check, please insert truss where tross is...
>
> > Tonal differences may vary, I dunno...
>
> I doubt to many builders today use non-adjustable rods. If you
> absolutely want non-adjustable rod, get yourself a selmer. In fact, I
> think Stochelo's selmer is for sale. 30k$US :-)
Favino still uses the old school style of non adjustable trusses with multi
laminate necks?? I'll pass on Stochelos Selmer, thank you. I would love to
play on an old Favino and I hear the new ones being built are in the $5K and
up range these day... whew!
I wouldn't pay $500.00 for a new Gibson acoustic today, but Favino is
another story and probably worth every dime spent on it...
>
> >> Strictly speaking it is not mounted in the hole. It is stuck on
> >> the top (not permanently. I can tell you that when I put mine on,
> >> it's not going anywhere.
>
> > is it in way at anytime when performing??
>
> Well, normally on that type of guitar you pick just behind the hole,
> closer to the bridge. A stimer pickup is typically installed near the
> neck. In this case, it's far out of the way. But depending on the
> guitar, you may have to mount the pickup farther away fromthe neck.
> Then, it may get out of the way. Mind you, I've seen Angelo Debarre
> as close as possible to the bridge, while staying over the hole.
> Then, your picking hand is very close to the pickup.
You know what, I've heard a couple of guys using the stimer and it seems to
magnify the "type writeryness" of the guitar IMHO. I'll just get closer to
the mic or go with a Sun system I own.
>
> > Ah... luthier difference with the same design in mind. Is your
> > DiMaurio a 50's or more recent??
>
> My DiMauro is a '92, built for Patrick Saussois. I guess he
> eventually got sick of it and I bought it :-) Patrick also sold his
> 25years old Favino last year. So it is possible to get tired of any
> instrument.
Yeah, I got tired of my 64 strat and 56 6120 and sold those just recently...
know how it goes, it's addictive
>
> > Is the PArk pretty loud when performing and does it really
> > "standout" when soloing??
>
> Well, keep in mind that what you are talking about has as much to do
> with the guitar as it has with the player's picking technique. Also,
> I'm mostly playing rythm right now, so can't comment on soloing. But
> it's plenty loud.
Thanks again...
>
> But a good picking hand on those guitars is a must. Guys like
> Stochelo Rosenberg and Angelo Debarre have incredible picking hands.
Nice to know you must have good clean picking technique on these style
guitars. I noticed that both Ferre bros have great picking tech too and
always thought it was probably necessary on the Selmers.
And a great player that gave me a weeks worth of lessons everyday for a
couple of hours, long ago, before he died (Lenny Breau) told me " if you
can't play it clean, you can't play it"!
>
> > One day, when I find a postal scale (inside joke) I'll have
> >> to weigh it. I string the Park with argentine .010, and it's
> >> plenty loud. I put .011 on the DiMauro.
>
> > one more stiff than the other or the same??
>
> Both guitars are the same scale length. Some guitars may like better
> different gauge. But for me, I like better the .010. I put .011 on
> the DiMauro to keep me honest :-) So, as a result, my DiMauro has a
> stiffer feel. But keep please keep in mind the longer scale lenght
> before you call me a wimp :-)
If you are making music, that is all that matters, no matter what instrument
you are playing:-) Nice to play on good guitars though...
>
> > Ah, yes I know. I only own one Martin D-18 and most of my Gibsons
> > are strung with 13 gauge with the L4 a hybrid 13/14...
>
> Then you'll probably be happy with .011 for a selmer type.
>
> > I do not swear by Martin, I'm only an old Gibson acoustic guy with
> > big necks and great tone! Nice to know you can custom order a neck
> > from an American company though...
>
> Well, calling Shelley Park a company might be a stretch :-) Even Dell
> Arte is fairly small.
Again I was being my polite self...
>
> BTW, the Martin was just an example. I know a fellow who spec'ed the
> neck of his shelley park like his Charlie Christian guitar.
I know, I understood... I don't want to send her my Southen Jumbo, but I
can spec it for her if I decide to buy...
>
> > Over the last 15 years I've bought 35 or so old acoustics but never
> > a Selmer type. Thanks for advice;-)
>
> I didn't mean to sound condescending. Just wanted to point out that
> oval hole type of guitars can be tricky to fix if there's a structural
> problem. But then again, the same could be said of F holes guitar I
> guess.
I didn't take you as being condesending, I want your experience and advice
in making my determination as to which Selmer clone I should go with.
Thanks
Stephane Boucher
> with multi laminate necks??
Ok. I could be wrong there.
> I'll pass on Stochelos Selmer, thank
> you. I would love to play on an old Favino and I hear the new ones
> being built are in the $5K and up range these day... whew! I
> wouldn't pay $500.00 for a new Gibson acoustic today, but Favino is
> another story and probably worth every dime spent on it...
Personnally, I wouldn't pay 5k$. There are plenty of good builders
around nowadays that you don't have to pay that much.
> You know what, I've heard a couple of guys using the stimer and it
> seems to magnify the "type writeryness" of the guitar IMHO. I'll
> just get closer to the mic or go with a Sun system I own.
The Stimer gives the guitar an electric guitar sound (listen to late
Django stuff). If you wanna stick with accoustic, a lot of gigging
musicians who play selmer style instruments use a big tone pickup that
is installed in the bridge. AER amps seem to be the choice for amps.
> Nice to know you must have good clean picking technique on these
> style guitars. I noticed that both Ferre bros have great picking
> tech too and always thought it was probably necessary on the
> Selmers. And a great player that gave me a weeks worth of lessons
> everyday for a couple of hours, long ago, before he died (Lenny
> Breau) told me " if you can't play it clean, you can't play it"!
For electric jazz, I think they only worry about the "clean" part.
But when you grab a gypsy axe, you gotta attack hard. This is really
hard to do with a floating hand (i.e. no pinky ankering)
> If you are making music, that is all that matters, no matter what
> instrument you are playing:-) Nice to play on good guitars though...
Well, I would go as far as saying I'm making music. But we could
settle on "noise".
> Again I was being my polite self...
Stop that!
> I didn't take you as being condesending, I want your experience and
> advice in making my determination as to which Selmer clone I should
> go with. Thanks
Another stink to worry about is that if you don't buy it in north
america, you could be hit by import taxes. Canada is ok, thanks to
free trade.
Good luck.
--
BREZ9091
you want,the way you want,at a reasonable cost.these guys are great.
Stephane Boucher
I don't doubt that. Except I'd be surprised if they know anything
about building selmer type guitar. If you want a selmer type guitar,
it's just simpler to get it done by a luthier who's already done
plenty of those.
--
Scotty
Stephane Boucher <s...@cisco.com> wrote in message
news:1fsn14s...@stb-u10.cisco.com...
> >>>>> "Scotty" == Scotty <sco...@proanalog.com> writes:
>
> > Favino still uses the old school style of non adjustable trusses
> > with multi laminate necks??
>
> Ok. I could be wrong there.
It's ok to be wrong we all get that way sometimes...
>
> > I'll pass on Stochelos Selmer, thank
> > you. I would love to play on an old Favino and I hear the new ones
> > being built are in the $5K and up range these day... whew! I
> > wouldn't pay $500.00 for a new Gibson acoustic today, but Favino is
> > another story and probably worth every dime spent on it...
>
> Personnally, I wouldn't pay 5k$. There are plenty of good builders
> around nowadays that you don't have to pay that much.
Come on, history, tradition, Boulou plays one, Jimmy R plays one...
> > You know what, I've heard a couple of guys using the stimer and it
> > seems to magnify the "type writeryness" of the guitar IMHO. I'll
> > just get closer to the mic or go with a Sun system I own.
>
> The Stimer gives the guitar an electric guitar sound (listen to late
> Django stuff). If you wanna stick with accoustic, a lot of gigging
> musicians who play selmer style instruments use a big tone pickup that
> is installed in the bridge. AER amps seem to be the choice for amps.
Since I heard Serge Kreif using one on this gypsy video of mine, I'll have
to bypass it for the sake of "typewriter" tone. SM-57 for me please, if
needed...
>
> > Nice to know you must have good clean picking technique on these
> > style guitars. I noticed that both Ferre bros have great picking
> > tech too and always thought it was probably necessary on the
> > Selmers. And a great player that gave me a weeks worth of lessons
> > everyday for a couple of hours, long ago, before he died (Lenny
> > Breau) told me " if you can't play it clean, you can't play it"!
>
> For electric jazz, I think they only worry about the "clean" part.
No, they don't... Dimeola, McLaughlin, Martino and others all attack the
strings like demons pocessed with the spirit of Herc...
> But when you grab a gypsy axe, you gotta attack hard. This is really
> hard to do with a floating hand (i.e. no pinky ankering)
No, they just anchor their forearm on the upper part of the body and flick
they're wrist, from what I see and they all sit while they play, so that
helps...
>
> > If you are making music, that is all that matters, no matter what
> > instrument you are playing:-) Nice to play on good guitars though...
>
> Well, I would go as far as saying I'm making music. But we could
> settle on "noise".
Gypsy swing isn't noise, it;s the holy grail for me... Now go do it on a
Tele, what fun...
>
> > Again I was being my polite self...
>
> Stop that!
No I will not, thank you...
>
> > I didn't take you as being condesending, I want your experience and
> > advice in making my determination as to which Selmer clone I should
> > go with. Thanks
>
> Another stink to worry about is that if you don't buy it in north
> america, you could be hit by import taxes. Canada is ok, thanks to
> free trade.
That is why I always ask them to send me the item as my birthday gift...
Stephane Boucher
> Come on, history, tradition, Boulou plays one, Jimmy R plays one...
Actually, Jimmy R has a Del Arte signature now. But then again, it's
a copy of his Favino :-)
> Since I heard Serge Kreif using one on this gypsy video of mine,
If the video in question is "Django's Legacy", disregard Serge's
playing there. I'm told he's much better than this video let's you
believe.
> No, they don't... Dimeola, McLaughlin, Martino and others all
> attack the strings like demons pocessed with the spirit of Herc...
But they've played on pseudo accoustic instruments. Those Jazz
players that never leave their electric jazz box have a soft touch,
don't they?
> No, they just anchor their forearm on the upper part of the body and
> flick they're wrist, from what I see and they all sit while they
> play, so that helps...
Well, if that's so simple, then post your clip loser.
Personally, I find it hard to do, and in fact don't do it well at all.
> Gypsy swing isn't noise, it;s the holy grail for me...
Yeah, but it comes out has noise when I play it :-)
--
Scotty
Stephane Boucher <s...@cisco.com> wrote in message
news:1fsae0q...@stb-u10.cisco.com...
> >>>>> "Scotty" == Scotty <sco...@proanalog.com> writes:
>
> > Come on, history, tradition, Boulou plays one, Jimmy R plays one...
>
> Actually, Jimmy R has a Del Arte signature now. But then again, it's
> a copy of his Favino :-)
Favino is the sh@t from what I hear from others...
>
> > Since I heard Serge Kreif using one on this gypsy video of mine,
>
> If the video in question is "Django's Legacy", disregard Serge's
> playing there. I'm told he's much better than this video let's you
> believe.
OK, if you say so gypsy guru you;-) He didn't sound very good to me, his
guitar sounded yukky, as my three year old daughter would say.
>
> > No, they don't... Dimeola, McLaughlin, Martino and others all
> > attack the strings like demons pocessed with the spirit of Herc...
>
> But they've played on pseudo accoustic instruments.
Excuse me?? Paco, K Eubanks many others, plays a pseudo acoustic?? Mac
has some really beautiful handmade acoustics from great luthiers around the
world and as for Dimeola, Ovations at least can take his hard pick attack
and abuse very well, even though it is pseudo acoustic. I've seen Al live 5
times and he has a hard attack on both electric and acoustic, except when
playign with dynamics for a tesions building or dramatic tune he's
playing...
Those Jazz
> players that never leave their electric jazz box have a soft touch,
> don't they?
I don't... Most jazz guys do not in my book either. Stephane, using light
strings on a gypsy acoustic when compared to one of my acoustics with 13
gauge, you ain't gonna get anywhere with a light attack with my guitars.
I use 10 set with my Fender electrics, 13 gauge on my dreadnaughts and
jumbo, and 11's on a gibby scale electric.
I think I may end up taking J.Maz from gypsyguitars.com advice and stick to
what has worked for me for years. The Selmer style guitar are made with
laminates, which I find to be inferior in my opinion, longer scale and a
much brighter tone. I'm in love with the look of the Selmer because of my
love for Django and the many gypsy guitarists that have followed, but I may
be disappointed in the tone based on my years of playing old American made
acoustic guitars. I'll just be act like Tony Rice and play it on a
dreadnaught;-) Been a pleasure to converse with you about this though...
>
> > No, they just anchor their forearm on the upper part of the body and
> > flick they're wrist, from what I see and they all sit while they
> > play, so that helps...
>
> Well, if that's so simple, then post your clip loser.
HAHA! You can come to Sara's on wednesday afternoon and hear me play the
gypsy style.
>
> Personally, I find it hard to do, and in fact don't do it well at all.
Is that the only way to play this style on that guitar?? I don't see
Stochelo always playing that way or Boulou... They just seem to have good
pickign hand technique plain and simple...
>
> > Gypsy swing isn't noise, it;s the holy grail for me...
>
> Yeah, but it comes out has noise when I play it :-)
Give me a break, you are lying and post your clips or I'll call you a
hermaphrodyte bisson...
Stephane Boucher
> Favino is the sh@t from what I hear from others...
Different people like different things.
> Excuse me?? Paco, K Eubanks many others, plays a pseudo acoustic??
> Mac has some really beautiful handmade acoustics from great luthiers
> around the world and as for Dimeola, Ovations at least can take his
> hard pick attack and abuse very well, even though it is pseudo
> acoustic. I've seen Al live 5 times and he has a hard attack on
> both electric and acoustic, except when playign with dynamics for a
> tesions building or dramatic tune he's playing...
I guess all I'm saying is that yes some of them guys can handle the
requirements of accoustics... (but keep in mind they are still
amplified)
> I don't... Most jazz guys do not in my book either.
If you say so. I can't claim to know too many jazz players. There
was one instructor I knew who used 9s on an ES175, and there's this
fellow I started playing a bit with at lunch who uses 9s on a
dreadnought.
I guess the test would be to hand you an accoustic that you have to
play unplugged and cut through 3-4 rythm guitars.
> Stephane,
> using light strings on a gypsy acoustic when compared to one of my
> acoustics with 13 gauge, you ain't gonna get anywhere with a light
> attack with my guitars. I use 10 set with my Fender electrics, 13
> gauge on my dreadnaughts and jumbo, and 11's on a gibby scale
> electric.
Using 11 on a long scale will be stiffer than you think. Also, the
action on a selmer will be much higher than, say, on an ES-175.
Also, I'm under the impression that when you are plugged in, you don't
need to attach that hard to make any gauge sound.
> I think I may end up taking J.Maz from gypsyguitars.com advice and
> stick to what has worked for me for years. The Selmer style guitar
> are made with laminates, which I find to be inferior in my opinion,
> longer scale and a much brighter tone.
I think your comments on the sound of those guitars in our discussion
suggests that you may indeed not like the selmer sound. And you don't
really need a selmer type guitar to play gypsy jazz.
But the selmer style guitars are not all made of laminate and most
that I know of have a solid top. I'm surprised to hear that the
Gerome you considered has a laminate top.
>> Personally, I find it hard to do, and in fact don't do it well at
>> all.
> Is that the only way to play this style on that guitar?? I don't
> see Stochelo always playing that way or Boulou... They just seem to
> have good pickign hand technique plain and simple...
Stochelo as a strong picking hand. He's one of the few who doesn't
loose strenght as he picks up speed. If you want the selmer type
guitars, you need to attack hard.
> Give me a break, you are lying and post your clips or I'll call you
> a hermaphrodyte bisson...
Really, I'm a mediocre player. Maybe one day I'll post a clip so
people will finally believe me.
--
Kate Ebneter
Hey, don't drag me into this...
Kate Ebneter
Collector of Noise Toys
Not A Speck Of Cereal
[] >>>>> "Scotty" == Scotty <sco...@proanalog.com> writes:
[...]
[] > Give me a break, you are lying and post your clips or I'll call you
[] > a hermaphrodyte bisson...
[]
[] Really, I'm a mediocre player. Maybe one day I'll post a clip so
[] people will finally believe me.
ME TOO!
BYE!!
--
"And BTW, I'm the best player in rmmg."
-- Danley Badinoff
Remove X's from my email address above to reply
[These opinions are personal views only and only my personal views]
Scotty
Stephane Boucher <s...@cisco.com> wrote in message
news:1fsvgjc...@stb-u10.cisco.com...
> >>>>> "Scotty" == Scotty <sco...@proanalog.com> writes:
>
> > Favino is the sh@t from what I hear from others...
>
> Different people like different things.
Thank god! We'd would all be playing the frying pan (vintage electric
guitar) if we didn't!
>
> > Excuse me?? Paco, K Eubanks many others, plays a pseudo acoustic??
> > Mac has some really beautiful handmade acoustics from great luthiers
> > around the world and as for Dimeola, Ovations at least can take his
> > hard pick attack and abuse very well, even though it is pseudo
> > acoustic. I've seen Al live 5 times and he has a hard attack on
> > both electric and acoustic, except when playign with dynamics for a
> > tesions building or dramatic tune he's playing...
>
> I guess all I'm saying is that yes some of them guys can handle the
> requirements of accoustics... (but keep in mind they are still
> amplified)
Brother, you gotta branch out! Many players out there that are strictly
acoustic...
>
> > I don't... Most jazz guys do not in my book either.
>
> If you say so. I can't claim to know too many jazz players. There
> was one instructor I knew who used 9s on an ES175, and there's this
> fellow I started playing a bit with at lunch who uses 9s on a
> dreadnought.
You cannot be serious? 9's on an ES-175, most of the boppers would slay him
silly... How the hell can you get good tone from that? Whatever... LOL
>
> I guess the test would be to hand you an accoustic that you have to
> play unplugged and cut through 3-4 rythm guitars.
Cool, lets do it!!! guitars I mean...
>
> > Stephane,
> > using light strings on a gypsy acoustic when compared to one of my
> > acoustics with 13 gauge, you ain't gonna get anywhere with a light
> > attack with my guitars. I use 10 set with my Fender electrics, 13
> > gauge on my dreadnaughts and jumbo, and 11's on a gibby scale
> > electric.
>
> Using 11 on a long scale will be stiffer than you think. Also, the
> action on a selmer will be much higher than, say, on an ES-175.
I've heard that the action is normally much higher too. That is like the
bluegrass guys around here, but some do and some have low action. The chord
freaks Travis style guys that use capos need to have the action high so the
strings don't fret out when playing...
>
> Also, I'm under the impression that when you are plugged in, you don't
> need to attach that hard to make any gauge sound.
T some degree yes, but not as much as you assume so... Depends upon the
situation you are in and what dynamics you want.
>
> > I think I may end up taking J.Maz from gypsyguitars.com advice and
> > stick to what has worked for me for years. The Selmer style guitar
> > are made with laminates, which I find to be inferior in my opinion,
> > longer scale and a much brighter tone.
>
> I think your comments on the sound of those guitars in our discussion
> suggests that you may indeed not like the selmer sound. And you don't
> really need a selmer type guitar to play gypsy jazz.
Yeah, you are probably right, but they do look cool cuz Django spanked on
them... <vernacular for playing a Selmer acoustic guitar>
>
> But the selmer style guitars are not all made of laminate and most
> that I know of have a solid top. I'm surprised to hear that the
> Gerome you considered has a laminate top.
JK Maz told me that, he should know.... Verbatum.
>
> >> Personally, I find it hard to do, and in fact don't do it well at
> >> all.
>
> > Is that the only way to play this style on that guitar?? I don't
> > see Stochelo always playing that way or Boulou... They just seem to
> > have good pickign hand technique plain and simple...
>
> Stochelo as a strong picking hand. He's one of the few who doesn't
> loose strenght as he picks up speed. If you want the selmer type
> guitars, you need to attack hard.
Sounds like how my wife attacks me sometimes when I get home late...
>
> > Give me a break, you are lying and post your clips or I'll call you
> > a hermaphrodyte bisson...
>
> Really, I'm a mediocre player. Maybe one day I'll post a clip so
> people will finally believe me.
Jeez, just a joke, sorry I for got the <G> in the message line. I'm sure
you are better than you want us all to believe...
Scotty
Stephane Boucher
> Hey, don't drag me into this...
So there IS someone else reading this thread! Wow!
--
Stephane Boucher
> ME TOO!
Well, actually Chris, no one thinks you are a good player.
Peace,
--
Stephane Boucher
> Brother, you gotta branch out! Many players out there that are
> strictly acoustic...
Wuz watching Frank Vignola jaming with Jimmy Rosenberg last night as a
result of you giving me a hard time in the most polite way ever seen
in the history of rmmg :-)
Frank is a fine player. But his technique is not gypsyesk. This is
particularly obvious when he's playing fast rythm almost over the neck
and using his forearm in the strumming, which causes him to have a
face of a guy who's working REALLY hard. Meanwhile, when watch Jimmy,
he's just strolling around, and his sound is cutting through much
more.
Not dissing Frank though. If I could play like that, I'd probably be
happy :-)
> Cool, lets do it!!! guitars I mean...
Drop by Montmagny next weekend. A bunch of hold geezers and myself
will be there to catch Alma Sinti. There should be a few jams during
this long weekend.
>> Also, I'm under the impression that when you are plugged in, you
>> don't need to attach that hard to make any gauge sound.
> T some degree yes, but not as much as you assume so... Depends upon
> the situation you are in and what dynamics you want.
Hey, are you assuming things about my assumptions? :-)
>> But the selmer style guitars are not all made of laminate and most
>> that I know of have a solid top. I'm surprised to hear that the
>> Gerome you considered has a laminate top.
> JK Maz told me that, he should know.... Verbatum.
Oh, I don't question that *bro*, but I'm still surprised by it.
> Jeez, just a joke, sorry I for got the <G> in the message line. I'm
> sure you are better than you want us all to believe...
Are you daring me or something?
--
Kate Ebneter
Hey, I know, like, two names associated with Gypsy Jazz -- Reinhardt
and Grapelli -- so this has been most informative, even if I haven't
been participating.
Usenet is like that, a lot.
Scotty
Stephane Boucher, the best player on RMMG worte>
> Are you daring me or something?
Do you want me too??