Gibson vs. Epiphone??? Enough already
Tim Adams
me to compare two guitars in this manner. Let's face it. You can't even
take two Gibson Les Paul Standards and get the same feel and tone out of
them for the simple reason that they are made of WOOD. No two guitars will
EVER be exactly alike. Now that having been said I will go on to say that
having read the opposing arguments, I can see where both sides have valid
points.
I currently own an Epiphone Les Paul Standard. This is my second one. My
first one proved the argument about the necks on the Epi's to be true in my
case. The neck warped and developed dead spots. Here's the cool part. It
was covered under the factory warranty, and Gibson/Epiphone REPLACED the
whole guitar... They even transferred my custom PUPs and tuners from the
f---ed up guitar to the new one. Two years later the neck on this one is
still perfect.
NOW--- In order to make this guitar into the lethal weapon it is today I
placed her in the skilled hands of mister Dave Thomas at Richmond Music here
in Richmond, VA. He did the mother of all setups to include a fret
leveling. Add on the Gibson 498T and 490R PUPs and the Gibson Vintage
tuners transferred from the old LP. The result is an outstanding guitar
that sounds and plays beutifully. No stock Epi off the rack could touch
this guitar. Could I have had a Gibson??? Sure, and if I was a
professional musician I would have bought one with out a second thought. I
also realize that if I had bought a "real" Gibson Les Paul I might not have
had the problems my old Epi had... Who the hell knows? I'll also say that
compared to the Gibson humbuckers currently installed in my guitar, the
original Epiphone PUPs SUCKED... The Gibson tuners also leave the stock Epi
tuners in the dust. The stock Epi bridge and stop tail piece are just fine
and will out live me. I had to shell out some bucks to bring my Epiphone
Les Paul up to snuff. But even with all that I haven't approached the cost
of a new Gibson Les Paul Standard. (and don't give me the usual LP Studio or
used Standard crap, I've heard it before and it's beside the point)
The bottom line though is this. I love my Les Paul. I don't give a rats
ASS who made it. It's a Les Paul--- It sounds like a Les Paul--- It plays
like a Les Paul--- SHIT it even says LES PAUL on the head stock. So the
debate can rage on, but in the end, it doesn't really matter does it? All
that REALLY matters in the long run is the music.
Peace
Tim
Ray Blede
Jest kiddin. Play what you like and play it well
"Tim Adams @attbi.com>" <TEAdams65<nospam> wrote in message
news:5IQf9.274984$_91.3...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
The Colemans
"Tim Adams @attbi.com>" <TEAdams65<nospam> wrote in message
news:5IQf9.274984$_91.3...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
to
> me to compare two guitars in this manner.
Most of the time, yeah.
Let's face it. You can't even
> take two Gibson Les Paul Standards and get the same feel and tone out of
> them for the simple reason that they are made of WOOD. No two guitars
will
> EVER be exactly alike. Now that having been said I will go on to say that
> having read the opposing arguments, I can see where both sides have valid
> points.
We used to go round and round about the 335 types.. and I always got a kick
out of that since both brands use laminated tops back and sides.
I think it was that Stam Danley guy who asked someone which glue had the
best tone.
> I currently own an Epiphone Les Paul Standard. This is my second one. My
> first one proved the argument about the necks on the Epi's to be true in
my
> case. The neck warped and developed dead spots. Here's the cool part.
It
> was covered under the factory warranty, and Gibson/Epiphone REPLACED the
> whole guitar... They even transferred my custom PUPs and tuners from the
> f---ed up guitar to the new one. Two years later the neck on this one is
> still perfect.
That's great. I really like to hear that sort of thing about gibson/epi
warranty.
> NOW--- In order to make this guitar into the lethal weapon it is today I
> placed her in the skilled hands of mister Dave Thomas at Richmond Music
here
> in Richmond, VA. He did the mother of all setups to include a fret
> leveling.
There's an issue of improvement I'd go right along with.
Epis, by and large, could all play much nicer with a dedicated level crown
and polish.
*so could a damned lot of other brands*
Add on the Gibson 498T and 490R PUPs and the Gibson Vintage
> tuners transferred from the old LP. The result is an outstanding guitar
> that sounds and plays beutifully. No stock Epi off the rack could touch
> this guitar.
I put in gibbys and there wasn't a great difference.. but I swapped the
bridge yet again and blondy WILL bite you on the butt now. *s*
Could I have had a Gibson??? Sure, and if I was a
> professional musician I would have bought one with out a second thought.
I
> also realize that if I had bought a "real" Gibson Les Paul I might not
have
> had the problems my old Epi had... Who the hell knows? I'll also say that
> compared to the Gibson humbuckers currently installed in my guitar, the
> original Epiphone PUPs SUCKED... The Gibson tuners also leave the stock
Epi
> tuners in the dust. The stock Epi bridge and stop tail piece are just
fine
> and will out live me.
My tuners are just fine. No problems at all.
the original pickups were only a tad weaker, and fed back only a very small
bit more than the gibbos.
The bridge.. well.. these bridges tick me off.
I disassembled it and filed down the edges down, sacrficing the gold plate,
so that there were no rough edges, no sharp corners.
Each of my bridge saddles is rounded and smooth. No problem resting your
hand there when muting or catching a cuff when jacking around like Pete T.
They were, simply put, not tumbled well enough.
that's when you take the rough piece and put it in a barrel with many others
and turn it until all the sharp edges wear down.
I had to shell out some bucks to bring my Epiphone
> Les Paul up to snuff. But even with all that I haven't approached the
cost
> of a new Gibson Les Paul Standard. (and don't give me the usual LP Studio
or
> used Standard crap, I've heard it before and it's beside the point)
> The bottom line though is this. I love my Les Paul. I don't give a rats
> ASS who made it. It's a Les Paul--- It sounds like a Les Paul--- It plays
> like a Les Paul--- SHIT it even says LES PAUL on the head stock. So the
> debate can rage on, but in the end, it doesn't really matter does it?
All
> that REALLY matters in the long run is the music.
happy pickin'
Twang!
> Peace
>
> Tim
>
>
>
Jim Anable
>
> Over the years I've watched this debate rage on and on. It seems stupid to
> me to compare two guitars in this manner. Let's face it. You can't even
> take two Gibson Les Paul Standards and get the same feel and tone out of
> them for the simple reason that they are made of WOOD. No two guitars will
> EVER be exactly alike.
This is SO true. I own an Epi LP and have played many different Epi and
Gibsons. I recently was in the market for an SG. You would be amazed at how
two separate SG's can sound totally different when unplugged. And neck quality,
well it varies greatly.
There are Epiphones that suck, and there are Gibsons that suck. The only thing
that makes sense is to treat every guitar as an individual.
Jim Anable
...
> The bottom line though is this. I love my Les Paul. I don't give a rats
> ASS who made it. It's a Les Paul--- It sounds like a Les Paul--- It plays
> like a Les Paul--- SHIT it even says LES PAUL on the head stock.
That's because it *IS* a Les Paul. Gibson sends the data for the machines in
Korea. They are made under license by Samick in Korea. It's the same data fed
to the same machines, just made where there is cheaper labor and other business
incentives. The wood is not exactly the same and neither is the hardware. But
an Epiphone Les Paul *IS* a real Les Paul. Having "Gibson" on the headstock is
no guarantee that it will play better than an Epiphone.
One other point. Epi uses a different finish that is cheaper and faster to
apply. BUT, it also LOOKS BETTER. Pick up a Gibson and you will likely see
orange peel and even areas where you'd swear it was painted with a brush.
The cheaper Epi finish is more self leveling, and it gives a glass-like
appearance.
Tim Asher
>From: Jim Anable j...@seattle-attorney.com
>Date: 9/11/02 9:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3D7FED5B...@seattle-attorney.com>
Well said old boy!
Tim
Weasel
=Weasel=
"Tim Adams @attbi.com>" <TEAdams65<nospam> wrote in message
news:5IQf9.274984$_91.3...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
> Over the years I've watched this debate rage on and on. It seems stupid
to
> me to compare two guitars in this manner. Let's face it. You can't even
> take two Gibson Les Paul Standards and get the same feel and tone out of
> them for the simple reason that they are made of WOOD. No two guitars
will
> EVER be exactly alike. Now that having been said I will go on to say that
> having read the opposing arguments, I can see where both sides have valid
> points.
<snipped>
Ed
"Tim Adams @attbi.com>" <TEAdams65<nospam> wrote in message
news:5IQf9.274984$_91.3...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
Yeah, but epiphones suck compared to Gibsons!
GAMc
"Atlas" <c1su...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:amb1ou8sbijpv4p9s...@4ax.com...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> On Thu, 12 Sep 2002 12:55:52 +0900, "Ed"
> <burt_sampson@.death.to.spam.yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Yeah, but epiphones suck compared to Gibsons!
>
>
> Glad we got that one cleared up. Now can we let this thread
> die? Please?
>
>
>
>
> Atlas
It can't die until everyone exhibits the self restraint to stop comparing
the relative "suck" factor of the toys of their passion.
The Colemans
"Ed" <burt_sampson@.death.to.spam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:alp3no$ogt$1...@cobalt01.janis.or.jp...
>
> "Tim Adams @attbi.com>" <TEAdams65<nospam> wrote in message
> news:5IQf9.274984$_91.3...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
> > Over the years I've watched this debate rage on and on.
> <lotsa stupid twittering snipped>
>
>
>
At long last a reasonable post on this.
Thanks.
Twang!
Avenger
Here's the problem.
You said you own a Les Paul. You do not. You own an Epiphone Les Paul. It is
required that when you speak of your Epiphone Les Paul to other people that
you at all times call it an Epiphone Les Paul not a Les Paul. Because it's
not a Les Paul it's an Epiphone Les Paul.
Avenger.
Tim Asher
>Date: 9/12/02 11:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <amb1ou8sbijpv4p9s...@4ax.com>
>
>x-no-archive: yes
>
>On Thu, 12 Sep 2002 12:55:52 +0900, "Ed"
><burt_sampson@.death.to.spam.yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Yeah, but epiphones suck compared to Gibsons!
>
> Yeah, but Gibsons suck compared to Hamers!
>
> Glad we got that one cleared up. Now can we let this thread
>die? Please?
>
>
>
>
>Atlas
>
>
>
>
>
>
Ouch!
Tim
Jim Anable
> You said you own a Les Paul. You do not. You own an Epiphone Les Paul. It is
> required that when you speak of your Epiphone Les Paul to other people that
> you at all times call it an Epiphone Les Paul not a Les Paul. Because it's
> not a Les Paul it's an Epiphone Les Paul.
>
> Avenger.
You say: "It is required that when you speak of your Epiphone Les Paul to other
people that you at all times call it an Epiphone Les Paul not a Les Paul."
GIVE ME A BREAK! Perhaps we should require you to identify yourself as a
"pompous know-it-all" on all of your posts!
HERE ARE THE FACTS, check with Gibson if you don't believe me:
Les Paul, the man himself, began experimenting with electics at the EPIPHONE
factory, not Gibson (this was before Gibson bought Epiphone).
Gibson now OWNS Epiphone. Samick (Korea) produces REAL Les Pauls under license
from Epiphone (Epiphone IS Gibson).
They are REAL Les Pauls because Epiphones and Gibsons are made by the SAME
machines using the SAME data.
Nobody else can make a Les Paul, the design is protected by law. Look at the
"copies." They will have a different shape, thickness, headstock and pot
placement. Similar, but different.
Labor costs and other business incentives make it MUCH cheaper to produce the
guitar in Korea.
The truth: An Epiphone Les Paul *is* a REAL Les Paul.
Despite the fact that Gibson has superior raw components, the difference between
a Gibson and a good Epiphone, in my person opinion, does NOT justify the
difference in the cost. A *good* Epi is an excellent guitar, and may well play
better than many Gibsons.
Many respectable players and luthiers will tell you that while Gibson's current
quality control is perhaps declining, while Epiphone's QC is improving.
If you can't live without "Gibson" on the headstock, buy Gibson. If you can
afford "the best," search out a good Gibson (believe me, quality varies). If
you want the best VALUE, search out a good Epiphone. You can get 90% of the
guitar for less than half the money.
The Colemans
"Jim Anable" <j...@seattle-attorney.com> wrote in message
news:3D80DC20...@seattle-attorney.com...
Enter the Dragon:
http://www.harmony-central.com/Newp/2002/Epiphone-Elites.html
Twang!
didja notice how cool and stuff it was for me to say Enter the Dragon. I'm
so hip sometimes I could just shit.
Avenger
Avenger.The Colemans wrote:> "Jim Anable" <j...@seattle-attorney.com> wrote in
Yeah, they're real Epiphone Les Paul. They're not just Les Pauls.
>>
>>Despite the fact that Gibson has superior raw components, the difference
>
> between
>
>>a Gibson and a good Epiphone, in my person opinion, does NOT justify the
>>difference in the cost. A *good* Epi is an excellent guitar, and may well
>
> play
>
>>better than many Gibsons.
>>
>>Many respectable players and luthiers will tell you that while Gibson's
>
> current
>
>>quality control is perhaps declining, while Epiphone's QC is improving.
>>
>>If you can't live without "Gibson" on the headstock, buy Gibson. If you
>
> can
>
>>afford "the best," search out a good Gibson (believe me, quality varies).
>
> If
>
>>you want the best VALUE, search out a good Epiphone. You can get 90% of
>
> the
>
>>guitar for less than half the money.
>
>
> Enter the Dragon:
>
> http://www.harmony-central.com/Newp/2002/Epiphone-Elites.html
>
Epiphone Elites, pronounced: E-Lights. Epiphone E-Lights. Made with fine
Corinthian "tone" woods.
The Colemans
"Avenger" <sos_a...@yahoo.com.> wrote in message
news:3F47CBAAA2EEF006.D661AD18...@lp.airnews.net...
Uh huh.
You're knocking them before they're even on the market.
That's pretty sad, ya know..
Twang!
Ed
>
> On Thu, 12 Sep 2002 12:55:52 +0900, "Ed"
> <burt_sampson@.death.to.spam.yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Glad we got that one cleared up. Now can we let this thread
> die? Please?
Sure we can. But I don't think the PRS vs. Gibson matter has been thoroughly
dealt with.
Ed
> But you go ahead and play your Gibson Les Paul. And you
> continue to bullshit yourself into believing that what you're playing
> is superior in all respects.
Are you guys going to start measuring your maple caps?
Tim Asher
>Message-id: <a9g2ou8qtru4q0t44...@4ax.com>
>
>x-no-archive: yes
>
>On 12 Sep 2002 15:38:56 GMT, ledz...@aol.comWONTON (Tim Asher)
>wrote:
>
>Hi Tim!
>
>>Ouch!
>
> Why would you say that, Tim!? You have nothing whatsoever to
>do with Gibson! Thus, for me to bash Gibson has no bearing on you
>personally!
>
> Hope that helped, Tim!
>
>
>
>Atlas
>
I like Hamers and Gibsons both because it all depends on the guitar I have in
my hands at the time :o) As a Les Paul owner for years and years I am rather
fond of them is all!
Did you ever see Coppola's Dracula?
So my answer is "We Dragules have a right to be prrrroud!"
Ha!
Tim
The Colemans
Maple caps were good enough for George Washington, and they're good enough
for me!
and you don't get the shivers if you accidentally get tinfoil in your
mouth.
Twang!
Ed
"The Colemans" <twa...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Pndg9.2570$Le2.2...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Maple caps were good enough for George Washington, and they're good enough
> for me!
> and you don't get the shivers if you accidentally get tinfoil in your
> mouth.
>
> Twang!
Twang? I'm thinking that since the Gibson vs. Epiphone charade has worn
thin, it might be high time for a Stratocaster vs. Telecaster debate. Surely
you think enough about your pile of compressed toothpicks to defend it's
ability to make a guy with an average butt look like a big-butted swamp
monster.
Ed
p.s. Just kidding! I just adore looking like I have a big butt.
p.p.s. Not to imply that it looks like I have a big butt when I play my
strat.
p.p.p.s. But is there an implication that PRS players have both big butts
and look like the swamp monster?
p.p.p.p.s. Not to imply that Jeff Liberace is gay, but he does play a PRS so
the usual suspects are being rounded up.
Ed
"Tim Asher" <ledz...@aol.comWONTON> wrote in message
news:20020912232307...@mb-fo.aol.com...
> >Subject: Re: Gibson vs. Epiphone??? Enough already
> >From: Atlas c1su...@hotmail.com
> >Date: 9/12/02 9:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time
> >Message-id: <a9g2ou8qtru4q0t44...@4ax.com>
> >
> >x-no-archive: yes
> >
> >On 12 Sep 2002 15:38:56 GMT, ledz...@aol.comWONTON (Tim Asher)
> >wrote:
> >
> >Hi Tim!
> >
> >>Ouch!
> >
> > Why would you say that, Tim!? You have nothing whatsoever to
> >do with Gibson! Thus, for me to bash Gibson has no bearing on you
> >personally!
> >
> > Hope that helped, Tim!
> >
> >
> >
> >Atlas
> >
>
> I like Hamers and Gibsons both because it all depends on the guitar I have
in
> my hands at the time :o) As a Les Paul owner for years and years I am
rather
> fond of them is all!
I used to feel the same way until I got a nice guitar. It used to be "Oh,
this is a great guitar! And so is that one over there!" and then I got a
real guitar and can't play anything else without regretting that I'm playing
a guitar that isn't as nice. And I've owned probably close to 50 guitars
before I found the one that I ain't getting rid of.
I guess it's the same way a Ferrari owner feels about driving a Volkswagon.
Yes, Volkswagon makes a decent automobile. But it ain't no Ferrari.
And yes, I had a very decent Gibson LP and have plans to get another one.
There is something about Les Pauls that spawn loyalty.
Mike Murphy
> Here's the problem.
> You said you own a Les Paul. You do not. You own an Epiphone Les Paul. It
is
> required that when you speak of your Epiphone Les Paul to other people
that
> you at all times call it an Epiphone Les Paul not a Les Paul. Because it's
> not a Les Paul it's an Epiphone Les Paul.
>
> Avenger.
This is exactly the kind of snobbery that keeps the prices of Gibsons out of
reach for most. Why don't you post some sound clips of you playing your Les
Paul so we can all see why you are such a snot box about it? There are so
many damned variables involved in trying to compare TWO GUITARS OF THE SAME
MODEL let alone different brands, construction techniques, wood, hardware,
that any comparisons are utterly worthless. If you want to pay for a brand
name, go ahead. I will never drop 3 grand for a Gibson, because to me they
are simply not worth the price. There are, of course, some great Gibsons,
but their quality control sucks the hairy root. I think that you're going
to have to wade through an awful lot of piss poor ones before you find a
real good one. To me, Hamers are better guitars, because it's far easier to
find a good one- shit, even Fenders are better in terms of quality control.
To me, Gibsons just aren't good enough to command the $$$$$, even though
they are very desirable to most players. YMMV.
Jeff Liberatore
> From: "Ed" <burt_sampson@.death.to.spam.yahoo.com>
> Organization: JANIS Net
> Newsgroups: alt.guitar,rec.music.makers.guitar
> Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 14:08:04 +0900
> Subject: Re: Gibson vs. Epiphone??? Enough already
OK Ed, if that indeed is your real name!
> p.p.p.s. But is there an implication that PRS players have both big butts
> and look like the swamp monster?
My butt is NOT big!!!
> p.p.p.p.s. Not to imply that Jeff Liberace is gay, but he does play a PRS so
> the usual suspects are being rounded up.
I almost missed this eDdiE... I may be gay, but don't tell me I have a big
butt, the boys wouldn't like that!
Jeff
Hendrik-Jan Boven
recently doubted about buying a Gibson 335. Until I had a Ibanez AS200 in my
hands. Same thing when comparing Ibanez's artist(2000 that is, or rather an
old one) and Gibson LP's. I'd dare to buy an Ibanez (well, Japanese that is,
not the korean, but still...) from a catalog... I mean, there's good,
better, best. With 3 Gibson you MIGHT have good, but surely there's badder
baddest! Quality Control is something out of speach here!
Gibson, go straigten it out (please...)
Hajee
"Mike Murphy" <975...@accglobal.net> wrote in message
news:Nvhg9.5243$OH7.95...@news.primus.ca...
Dan Stanley
"Ed" <burt_sampson@.death.to.spam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:alra55$ebu$1...@cobalt01.janis.or.jp...
>
No, but we all have custom fit tinfoil propeller beanies.
Dan
Avenger
>
> On Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:38:44 -0500, Avenger <sos_a...@yahoo.com.>
> wrote:
>
>
>>You said you own a Les Paul. You do not. You own an Epiphone Les Paul. It is
>>required that when you speak of your Epiphone Les Paul to other people that
>>you at all times call it an Epiphone Les Paul not a Les Paul. Because it's
>>not a Les Paul it's an Epiphone Les Paul.
>
>
> Paul. It's not enough to refer to a Gibson Les Paul as simply a Les
> Paul (and expect the entire world to know that it's a Gibson, and not
> an Epiphone).
>
> But you go ahead and play your Gibson Les Paul. And you
> continue to bullshit yourself into believing that what you're playing
> is superior in all respects.
>
What? I suck at playing and even a Les Paul won't help that. But I wondered
at what point you would start with your little emotional tirades. You
answered that. I guess this strikes a nerve with you because Epi Les Pauls
aren't real Les Pauls and you're not a real doctor.
But it's always a pleasure to be present at the birth of yet a another new
mental disorder/inferiority syndrome and a new slogan for a guitar line.
"Epiphone: The chiropractors of the guitar world."
"When only a reasonable facsimile will do."
> And by all means, continue to entertain us with your witty
> prose. I'm sure you're completely unaware, but you've provided us
> with much hilarity.
>
I write the songs deud, I write the songs...
Avenger.
Mike C.
And where are these songs?
My epiphone dot is a much better sounding and much better guitar than I have
seen of Gibson ES-335s. Not to say that they don't have a better one, but I
haven't seen it.
Gibsons are overpriced, considering their quality control. Take that to the
bank.
Mo_ron_Hubbard
"Mike C." <Funki...@MSN.com> wrote in message
news:gJpg9.92721$Jo.25587@rwcrnsc53...
Clyde Hunt
Fans of the late, great, unplugged, rhythm guitarist, Steve Jordan,
associated with Casa Loma, Will Bradley, Stan Kenton, Benny Goodman,
Artie Shaw, Freddie Slack, Boyd Raeburn, and more, will be
delighted to know of these "late" digital CD releases, recorded shortly
before his death in the early 1990's.
1. The Steve Jordan Trio - CD
with John Cocuzzi, vibes, and Clyde Hunt, Trumpet.
2. Soft, Swingin' Jazz - CD
The Steve Jordan Trio as above.
3. The Intimate Steve Jordan - CD
Steve plays and sings 16 great old tunes.
NOW - Get all three cd's for $29.95 plus shipping.
Complete details, photos, including a REALAUIO clip available at:
http://www.BFLATMUSIC.com/sjordan.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
JamesATemple
"Clyde Hunt" <bfla...@crosslink.net> wrote in message
news:3d850c56$0$31...@dingus.crosslink.net...
Why, the very idea of postin' a solicitation on a newsgroup! I can't
believe folks would do such a thing! (Rant, rave, foam-at-the-mouth.)
Sure glad you did, Clyde. I ordered all three. I'd visit a bit more but
I've got to go pick up enough aluminum cans out of the road ditch to pay for
'em.
Stooped over in Texas, tryin' to pay for more guitar CDs,
Jim Temple
-----------== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----= Over 100,000 Newsgroups - Unlimited Fast Downloads - 19 Servers =-----
