Just bought a Gibson ES-135
Cypher
these for a long time, and decided to take the plunge because the dealer
offered to give me a very good price for my trade-in - My Godin LG.
The ES-135 is incredible. Simply incredible. It's got that classic
hollow-body tone with the P100 stacked humbuckers. I'll review it as soon as
I've had it for awhile.
Any other ES-135 fans out there?
evil twin®
I bet there's at least one...
Polfus
>From: "Cypher" <guit...@geocities.com>
>Date: Sat, Feb 20, 1999 13:18 EST
>Message-id: <7amtvk$p97$1...@newshost.cyberramp.net>
>
>Hi, all! yesterday I picked up a Gibson ES-135. I've been wanting one of
>these for a long time, and decided to take the plunge because the dealer
>offered to give me a very good price for my trade-in - My Godin LG.
>
>The ES-135 is incredible. Simply incredible. It's got that classic
>hollow-body tone with the P100 stacked humbuckers. I'll review it as soon as
>I've had it for awhile.
>
>Any other ES-135 fans out there?
>
Hehehe....
Another satisfied Gibson owner :)
Congrats on your excellent choice, Cypher...just be careful with your delicate
fingers :)
Peace,
Polfus
DBloozz
>
Yes but I put P - 94 pickups in mine
Peace
DBloozz
Cypher
>>Hi, all! yesterday I picked up a Gibson ES-135. I've been wanting one of
>>these for a long time, and decided to take the plunge because the dealer
>>offered to give me a very good price for my trade-in - My Godin LG.
>>
>>The ES-135 is incredible. Simply incredible. It's got that classic
>>hollow-body tone with the P100 stacked humbuckers. I'll review it as soon
as
>>I've had it for awhile.
>>
>>
>
>Hehehe....
>
>Another satisfied Gibson owner :)
>
>Congrats on your excellent choice, Cypher...just be careful with your
delicate
>fingers :)
Alright... before I get pissed off about this, maybe I'm missing something.
As I do with all my new guitars, I took all the facotry strings off, worked
the frets and the fretboard over, and restrung the guitar with my favorite
gauge strings - .046-.009's. Now, if I hit the low e-string hard or rest my
hand on the string, it jumps off the friggin saddle! The string slot is way
too small to handle the .046's. I assume that the factory strings are
.040's.
Am I missing something here? I've NEVER had a guitar with this problem and
I've owned quite a few of them.... I can't believe that I'm just a few hours
into owning this thing and I've already found a functional problem. I know
that this wasn't a problem with the factory stings because I played it quite
a bit in the store and after I got it home. Is there some secret I don't
know about?
Someone help!
-Cypher
http://www.cyberramp.net/~cypher/
Cypher
>>Any other ES-135 fans out there?
>>
>
The P94 is a single coil, right? How did it sound?
Cypher
>Cypher,
>
>I used to have an Es135 but sold it for several reasons:
Can someone explain the weird switching to me?
I gather that the top position is the neck pickup, the bottom the bridge
pickup like
normal. However, the middle position is interesting. With both volume knobs
set on 10, the middle sound is very thin. If you back off on one of the
volume controls, it starts getting fatter. If you roll one of the volume
controls completely down, it shuts both pickups off. I'm confused. Is this
some kind of "vintage switching" or something?
Dan Stanley
DBloozz wrote in message <19990220170257...@ng-fq1.aol.com>...
>>Any other ES-135 fans out there?
>>
>
> Yes but I put P - 94 pickups in mine
>Peace
>DBloozz
How do you like them? I've been curious about these since they were
introduced, but haven't heard them.
Dan
OASYSCO
I used to have an Es135 but sold it for several reasons:
1. the neck had a slight warp to it that prevented me from getting decent
action, though it did not affect intonation. The Gibson authorized dealer
identified the problem for me but would not contact Gibson because it "was not
that bad". It kept my action as high as a cheap import, though, but action is a
subjective thing.
2. The guitar was just way too twangy for me with those P-100's. Played through
a SS Fender it was even more so - at least for jazz. For blues or R&R, it would
have been fine.
3. I thought the guitar was overpriced by about $200 (I paid $975 for my SB
model). At the very least, it should have come stock with a Gibson plush case
which ran me an add'l $125.
These are just my opinions, of course. If you got a good deal on yours then you
got a good guitar. Hey, it's a Gibson in any case. I ended up selling mine (and
only lost $100) and bought a decent acoustic. I later bought an Epi archtop for
1/2 the price, put a Duncan '59 in the neck and now have that jazz tone that I
was hoping the Es135 would bring but never did.
>Hi, all! yesterday I picked up a Gibson ES-135. I've been wanting one of
>these for a long time, and decided to take the plunge because the dealer
>offered to give me a very good price for my trade-in - My Godin LG.
>
>The ES-135 is incredible. Simply incredible. It's got that classic
>hollow-body tone with the P100 stacked humbuckers. I'll review it as soon as
>I've had it for awhile.
>
Darren
>
> Alright... before I get pissed off about this, maybe I'm missing something.
> As I do with all my new guitars, I took all the facotry strings off, worked
> the frets and the fretboard over, and restrung the guitar with my favorite
> gauge strings - .046-.009's. Now, if I hit the low e-string hard or rest my
> hand on the string, it jumps off the friggin saddle! The string slot is way
> too small to handle the .046's. I assume that the factory strings are
> .040's.
The saddle notch should already be big enough to handle the .046. Is it
possible that when you restrung it that the tailpiece got raised a
little bit, making for less break angle over the saddle ? This is
something you might want to check first. See if lowering the tailpiece
fixes your problem. If not you may need the saddle notch enlarged a bit.
--
Darren http://www.mindspring.com/~darrenriley
John Williams
<g>) that works this same way. I understand the Gibson factory did this
for a short time during that period. I have had two 135s that didn't do
this though - maybe your 135 has been worked on a bit?
This would explain the thin sound. The pickup-shutoff phenomenon is
totally normal for traditional Gibson-type circuits. When you turn a
volume control all the way off you short the guitar's output to ground.
In the "both" switch position, the signal from both pickups is grounded
through the one volume control that is turned off.
Cypher wrote:
>
> Can someone explain the weird switching to me?
>
> I gather that the top position is the neck pickup, the bottom the bridge
> pickup like
> normal. However, the middle position is interesting. With both volume knobs
> set on 10, the middle sound is very thin. If you back off on one of the
> volume controls, it starts getting fatter. If you roll one of the volume
> controls completely down, it shuts both pickups off. I'm confused. Is this
> some kind of "vintage switching" or something?
>
> -Cypher
> http://www.cyberramp.net/~cypher/
PJBMHB
>Can someone explain the weird switching to me?
from what you describe it sounds like the 2 p/us are wired out of phase w/ each
other.
=-) PJ
Dan Stanley
Cypher wrote in message <7ao6th$evv$1...@newshost.cyberramp.net>...
>>
>>I used to have an Es135 but sold it for several reasons:
>
>
>
>pickup like
>normal. However, the middle position is interesting. With both volume knobs
>set on 10, the middle sound is very thin. If you back off on one of the
>volume controls, it starts getting fatter. If you roll one of the volume
>controls completely down, it shuts both pickups off. I'm confused. Is this
>some kind of "vintage switching" or something?
Sounds to me like the pickups are wired out of phase. I don't think it's
supposed to be like that. ;-}
The simple fix (not so simple on a hollowbody...) is too switch "hot" and
"ground" connection for ONE (either one) of the pickups.
Between the saddle slot problem, and this, I'd think a quick trip back to
the store is in order.
Dan
Dan Stanley
OASYSCO wrote in message <19990220204010...@ng-fa1.aol.com>...
>Cypher,
>
>I used to have an Es135 but sold it for several reasons:
>
>action, though it did not affect intonation. The Gibson authorized dealer
>identified the problem for me but would not contact Gibson because it "was
not
>that bad". It kept my action as high as a cheap import, though, but action
is a
>subjective thing.
You can always count on good service from your local Gibson rep. That's what
Polfus told me...
>2. The guitar was just way too twangy for me with those P-100's. Played
through
>a SS Fender it was even more so - at least for jazz. For blues or R&R, it
would
>have been fine.
I always get the 135 and 175 confused...offhand, what are the major
differences?
>3. I thought the guitar was overpriced by about $200 (I paid $975 for my SB
>model). At the very least, it should have come stock with a Gibson plush
case
>which ran me an add'l $125.
Hmmmm....a Gibson overpriced?
>These are just my opinions, of course. If you got a good deal on yours then
you
>got a good guitar. Hey, it's a Gibson in any case. I ended up selling mine
(and
>only lost $100) and bought a decent acoustic. I later bought an Epi archtop
for
>1/2 the price, put a Duncan '59 in the neck and now have that jazz tone
that I
>was hoping the Es135 would bring but never did.
So an Epiphone at half the price was better suited to your purposes, AND had
better build quality? The "purposes" part is one thing, naturally...but the
build quality thing is IMPORTANT.
Dan
little DEUCE
> Another satisfied Gibson owner :)
Luckily for you (and Gibson), you're the only one who seems concerned
enough to keep count.
--
little DEUCE
"I'm ridding you of junk e-mail this year, and this is the thanks I get?"
Polfus
>From: "little DEUCE"
>Polfus <pol...@aol.com> wrote
>
>> Another satisfied Gibson owner :)
>
>
>Luckily for you (and Gibson), you're the only one who seems concerned
>enough to keep count.
Not really...its just that many that bitch so much about it *still* have a
Gibson.
Think about it.
Peace,
Polfus
Matthew Ivaliotes
Cypher <guit...@geocities.com> wrote in article
<7ao6lh$esh$1...@newshost.cyberramp.net>...
> Polfus wrote in message <19990220165754...@ng-ch1.aol.com>...
> >Another satisfied Gibson owner :)
> Am I missing something here? I've NEVER had a guitar with this problem
and
> I've owned quite a few of them.... I can't believe that I'm just a few
hours
> into owning this thing and I've already found a functional problem.
Yes, another "satisfied" Gibson owner.
I hear that guys get "satisfied" like that in prison if they move too
slowly in the shower.
Matt I.
Cypher
>Sounds to me like the pickups are wired out of phase. I don't think it's
>supposed to be like that. ;-}
>
>The simple fix (not so simple on a hollowbody...) is too switch "hot" and
>"ground" connection for ONE (either one) of the pickups.
>
>Between the saddle slot problem, and this, I'd think a quick trip back to
>the store is in order.
OASYSCO e-mailed me and said that his ES-135 was wired like that. It must be
the standard on that guitar. I guess it's easy to fix, just a minor
annoyance. I think I will take a trip back to the store next week to have
this looked at. It's unplayable with the saddle problem. Those saddle should
easily support .046's, but the string barely fits in the notch at all.
Cypher
Thanks for the info, Darren. I'll check it out. However, the tailpiece just
hangs there. It would make sense that it would get pulled to a certain
height by the sring tension. It doesn't look like you can do anything to
lower it.
mc...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
>>Subject: Re: Just bought a Gibson ES-135
>>From: "little DEUCE"
>
>>Polfus <pol...@aol.com> wrote
>>
>>
>>
>>enough to keep count.
>
> Not really...its just that many that bitch so much about it *still* have a
> Gibson.
>
> Think about it.
>
> Peace,
> Polfus
Let me see, here. If you do *NOT* have a Gibson, then any bitch is because
you're jealous of those that do. If you *DO* have a Gibson, then not
matter how much you bitch, well, you OWN one, so it must be OK.
I think I have it now. Is there some aspect of your thought on this that
I am missing?
Mickey Yaho-Mooshoo
Dan Stanley
Cypher wrote in message <7aplp5$fc9$1...@newshost.cyberramp.net>...
>Dan Stanley wrote in message <7apgpq$j...@news-central.tiac.net>...
>>Sounds to me like the pickups are wired out of phase. I don't think it's
>>supposed to be like that. ;-}
>
>>
>>The simple fix (not so simple on a hollowbody...) is too switch "hot" and
>>"ground" connection for ONE (either one) of the pickups.
>>
>>Between the saddle slot problem, and this, I'd think a quick trip back to
>>the store is in order.
>
>OASYSCO e-mailed me and said that his ES-135 was wired like that. It must
be
>the standard on that guitar.
Well, I'd check out a couple others, to make sure, or email Gibson and ask.
If it is, well then ok. Let us know if it IS supposed to be like that, or if
QC at Gibson let two (...perhaps more...) miswired guitars out.
I've seen miswired LPs, new out of box, BTW.
Dan
little DEUCE
> Not really...its just that many that bitch so much about it *still* have a
> Gibson.
And still eat at McDonald's, surely the best restaurant in the world.
> Think about it.
I gave it the consideration it deserved.
Les Cargill
Cypher wrote:
>
> OASYSCO wrote in message <19990220204010...@ng-fa1.aol.com>...
> >Cypher,
> >
> >I used to have an Es135 but sold it for several reasons:
>
> Can someone explain the weird switching to me?
>
> I gather that the top position is the neck pickup, the bottom the bridge
> pickup like
> normal.
Do the following with the guitar plugged in, but the volume on
the amp way down.
Tap on the pickup faces with a pick, or tap (gently) on the pole pieces
with a metal screwdriver to determine which pickups are "on"
in what switch position.
>However, the middle position is interesting. With both volume knobs
> set on 10, the middle sound is very thin. If you back off on one of the
> volume controls, it starts getting fatter. If you roll one of the volume
> controls completely down, it shuts both pickups off. I'm confused. Is this
> some kind of "vintage switching" or something?
No, it's just phase cancellation between the signals leaving the
pickups. As you roll one volume control down, the phase cancellation
is reduced, hence the increase in volume.
I have a frankenstein with a volume control per pickup and a mini
switch per pickup with ties them together in a parallel buss. It
exhibits the same behavior.
>
> -Cypher
> http://www.cyberramp.net/~cypher/
--
Les Cargill
http://home.att.net/~lcargill/
Cypher
>Polfus <pol...@aol.com> wrote
>
>> Not really...its just that many that bitch so much about it *still* have
a
>> Gibson.
>
>And still eat at McDonald's, surely the best restaurant in the world.
I don't want to turn this thread into a Gibson bashing thread. I knew full
well about the Gibson QC problems when I bought this guitar. I even
overlooked the orange-peel on the headstock. I really liked the sound of
this guitar, and that's why I bought it. (Actually, I probably would have
bought a Guild Starfire II or III if it weren't for that terrible floating
bridge, and my lack of a strobe tuner to intonate the damn thing every time
I change the strings.) The ES-135 has always been a favorite of mine, ever
since I played my Uncle's 60's ES-135 a few years ago.
Now, about Gibson's QC. It sucks, and it will probably always suck. Soon
I'll have the warranty repair paperwork to prove it. This doesn't mean that
their guitars are not good. It just means that WAAAAAY too often, they leave
the factory not completed, or not tested properly. My guitar is brand-new
out of the store's storage. I took it out of the Gibson box myself. I was
the first one to ever play it, even though it's a 1996 N.O.S. guitar.
Cypher
>No, it's just phase cancellation between the signals leaving the
>pickups. As you roll one volume control down, the phase cancellation
>is reduced, hence the increase in volume.
>
>I have a frankenstein with a volume control per pickup and a mini
>switch per pickup with ties them together in a parallel buss. It
>exhibits the same behavior.
Thanks for the info, Les. I'm taking the guitar to a Gibson warranty repair
center on Monday. It just happens to be on my way to work. Gibson's Website
has lots of info, BTW. I even posted my question on their forum to their
customer relations dept to see what they'll say.
Cheers!
-Cypher
http://www.cyberramp.net/~cypher/
Cypher
>possible that when you restrung it that the tailpiece got raised a
>little bit, making for less break angle over the saddle ? This is
>something you might want to check first. See if lowering the tailpiece
>fixes your problem. If not you may need the saddle notch enlarged a bit.
Here's some pictures:
http://www.cyberramp.net/~cypher/paint/MVC-018S.JPG
This picture shows the saddle. The notch is about 1mm or so, deep. Seems
less than the other strings. This picture also shows the E-string off to the
side of the saddle and resting on the bridge, where it has spent most of
it's time since I re-strung it.
http://www.cyberramp.net/~cypher/paint/MVC-024S.JPG
This picture shows the full body of the guitar. Ain't it pretty?
Cheers!
-Cypher
http://www.cyberramp.net/~cypher/
Dan Stanley
Matthew Ivaliotes wrote in message <01be5e09$b8437da0$b01a7e82@test>...><7aqd9o$8o8$1...@newshost.cyberramp.net>...
>full
>> well about the Gibson QC problems when I bought this guitar. I even
>> overlooked the orange-peel on the headstock. I really liked the sound of
>> this guitar, and that's why I bought it.
>
>that's the most important thing. Quality is very important to me, but it
>doesn't mean much if you don't like the guitar in the first place.
Yup. A little orange peel on a headstock, or fisheye on a body never
bothered me any.
Heck, I don't even mind dings as long as they're not on the neck.
>> (Actually, I probably would have
>> bought a Guild Starfire II or III if it weren't for that terrible
>floating
>> bridge, and my lack of a strobe tuner to intonate the damn thing every
>time
>> I change the strings.)
>
>That would be a big pain in the butt.
Yer both a pair o' panty wearin' mama's boys is what I think...
>> Now, about Gibson's QC. It sucks, and it will probably always suck.
>Don't mince words. :)
Shhh...you-know-who might be reading this!
>> Soon I'll have the warranty repair paperwork to prove it.
>Yes, and may that go well.
Yep. I saw the pics of the guitar, Cypher, and it looks like fun can be had.
I could picture me playing Carl Perkins' Greatest Hits...
>> This doesn't mean that their guitars are not good.
>Agreed.
>
>> It just means that WAAAAAY too often, they leave
>> the factory not completed, or not tested properly. My guitar is brand-new
>> out of the store's storage. I took it out of the Gibson box myself. I was
>> the first one to ever play it, even though it's a 1996 N.O.S. guitar.
To me, that devalues the whole line. Others may feel different, and that's
ok.
A lemon or two wouldn't bother me, but...
>Yeah, that's a problem, then. Gibson needs to work on that. Then all they
>have to do is drop the price of a Les Paul Standard a bit,or just hold it
>level until the rest of the market and inlfation catches up. If they
>shored up QC and got a little more price competitive on the Les Paul line
>(not Studios), there'd be little to bitch about. Except those tuners. :)
>
>Matt I.
Maybe we should drop Henry J. a note. Better yet, I'll bake a pie...Matt,
you make a pot of coffee...and we'll drop in on him and chat in person.
SDan
Nick V. Flor
Mathew William Brock
Cypher <guit...@geocities.com> wrote:
>
>I don't want to turn this thread into a Gibson bashing thread. I knew full
>well about the Gibson QC problems when I bought this guitar. I even
>overlooked the orange-peel on the headstock. I really liked the sound of
>bought a Guild Starfire II or III if it weren't for that terrible floating
>bridge, and my lack of a strobe tuner to intonate the damn thing every time
>since I played my Uncle's 60's ES-135 a few years ago.
>
Well, it's too late now, but I was wondering whether you (or anyone
else) had thought about getting an archtop roller bridge from Stew Mac
or something like that as a replacement for the rocking Starfire bridge?
They have adjustable intonation for each roller saddle, and adjustable
spacing. You can always sand them down to make good contact with the
top. Not too expensive if I remember correctly. I can't vouch for the
quality.
Otherwise, the Starfires are smokin' guitars.
Later,
Mat
Cypher
>For some reason, I think that either you need to raise the bridge slightly
(
>did you put larger string guage on it?), and yes..the low E slot is
supposed to
>be less than the others.
>
>Just buzz..thats all?
Didn't touch the bridge height. I put heavier strings on it. The bridge
should be able to handle .046's as opposed to the .040's that came with it.
Just buzz? No. The string slides completely off of the saddle. There's
nothing to keep it from doing so. The string slot is nearly non-existant.
>The guitar was FINE when you bought it, no?
Seemed to be. Stock strings came off, new strings went on. Pow! E-string
slides off the saddle.
>YOU did something, or have changed string guages and not compensated by
>adjusting the action, IMHO.
Brilliant! We'll see what the warranty shop says.
>>http://www.cyberramp.net/~cypher/paint/MVC-024S.JPG
>>This picture shows the full body of the guitar. Ain't it pretty?
>
>Beautiful!
Thanks!
Cypher
>
>Yes, and may that go well.
Thanks. I'll hopefully take it to the repair shop tomorrow. I'm sure they'll
be able to fix it up. No big deal, maybe reaplce the bridge or something.
I'll have them check out the wiring while they're at it, too.
>Yeah, that's a problem, then. Gibson needs to work on that. Then all they
>have to do is drop the price of a Les Paul Standard a bit,or just hold it
>level until the rest of the market and inlfation catches up. If they
>shored up QC and got a little more price competitive on the Les Paul line
>(not Studios), there'd be little to bitch about. Except those tuners. :)
Gibson doesn't know the meaning of the words "price competitive". Most of
the prices on their guitars are downright ludicrous! A signature strat might
run about $1000 or so. A signature Les Paul would run two to three times
that. A Fender American Standard is about $550-$600. A Les Paul Standard is
about $1300 with one color option at that price - black. Other colors add
another $200-$300. Then you have the Customs, Reissues, etc... However, as
long as people will pay Gibsons prices for guitars with poor QC (I said QC,
not workmanship, Polfus), I doubt they'll drop their prices. To Gibson's
credit, they are taking pot-shots and the PRS market with the DC Standard -
which is a darn nice guitar at a great price (price wont last). Even their
low-end DC Studio at $700-$800 is a set-neck guitar with the same
wood/pickups as it's big brother. That's a step in the right direction.
Don't get me started... hehehehe
-Cypher
http://www.cyberramp.net/~cypher/
Cypher
>Well, it's too late now, but I was wondering whether you (or anyone
>else) had thought about getting an archtop roller bridge from Stew Mac
>or something like that as a replacement for the rocking Starfire bridge?
>They have adjustable intonation for each roller saddle, and adjustable
>spacing. You can always sand them down to make good contact with the
>top. Not too expensive if I remember correctly. I can't vouch for the
>quality.
>
>Otherwise, the Starfires are smokin' guitars.
Hey, I didn't even know they made such a thing. Guild should consider
offering it as an option. You're right. The Starfires are great guitars!
Matthew Ivaliotes
Cypher <guit...@geocities.com> wrote in article
<7aqdji$8q1$1...@newshost.cyberramp.net>...
>
> http://www.cyberramp.net/~cypher/paint/MVC-024S.JPG
> This picture shows the full body of the guitar. Ain't it pretty?
Sure is. Nice guitar. May it cease giving you troubles soon.
Matt I.
Matthew Ivaliotes
Cypher <guit...@geocities.com> wrote in article
<7aqd9o$8o8$1...@newshost.cyberramp.net>...
> little DEUCE wrote in message <7apuhs$guh$1...@camel0.mindspring.com>...
> I don't want to turn this thread into a Gibson bashing thread. I knew
full
> well about the Gibson QC problems when I bought this guitar. I even
> overlooked the orange-peel on the headstock. I really liked the sound of
> this guitar, and that's why I bought it.
A perfectly valid reason, too. If you like how something plays and sounds,
that's the most important thing. Quality is very important to me, but it
doesn't mean much if you don't like the guitar in the first place.
> (Actually, I probably would have
> bought a Guild Starfire II or III if it weren't for that terrible
floating
> bridge, and my lack of a strobe tuner to intonate the damn thing every
time
> I change the strings.)
That would be a big pain in the butt.
> Now, about Gibson's QC. It sucks, and it will probably always suck.
Don't mince words. :)
> Soon I'll have the warranty repair paperwork to prove it.
Yes, and may that go well.
> This doesn't mean that their guitars are not good.
Agreed.
> It just means that WAAAAAY too often, they leave
> the factory not completed, or not tested properly. My guitar is brand-new
> out of the store's storage. I took it out of the Gibson box myself. I was
> the first one to ever play it, even though it's a 1996 N.O.S. guitar.
Yeah, that's a problem, then. Gibson needs to work on that. Then all they
have to do is drop the price of a Les Paul Standard a bit,or just hold it
level until the rest of the market and inlfation catches up. If they
shored up QC and got a little more price competitive on the Les Paul line
(not Studios), there'd be little to bitch about. Except those tuners. :)
Matt I.
Matthew Ivaliotes
Dan Stanley <stan...@tiac.net> wrote in article
<7aqfj6$j...@news-central.tiac.net>...
>
> Matthew Ivaliotes wrote in message <01be5e09$b8437da0$b01a7e82@test>...
> >A perfectly valid reason, too. If you like how something plays and
sounds,
> >that's the most important thing. Quality is very important to me, but
it
> >doesn't mean much if you don't like the guitar in the first place.
> Yup. A little orange peel on a headstock, or fisheye on a body never
> bothered me any.
Oh, it bothers me. I just wouldn't call it enough to deter me from a
guitar I otherwise love.
> Heck, I don't even mind dings as long as they're not on the neck.
Only if we're talking used.
> >That would be a big pain in the butt.
> Yer both a pair o' panty wearin' mama's boys is what I think...
And you're just a lap dog of The Man.
> >Don't mince words. :)
> Shhh...you-know-who might be reading this!
Yeah. We don't need horse waste flying around here.
> >Yes, and may that go well.
> Yep. I saw the pics of the guitar, Cypher, and it looks like fun can be
had.
> I could picture me playing Carl Perkins' Greatest Hits...
Geezer.
> To me, that devalues the whole line. Others may feel different, and
that's
> ok.
> A lemon or two wouldn't bother me, but...
Yeah, the fact that you know you're doing a major dice roll with them makes
it harder to even look in their direction.
> Maybe we should drop Henry J. a note. Better yet, I'll bake a pie...Matt,
> you make a pot of coffee...and we'll drop in on him and chat in person.
Sounds like a positively wonderful idea. Maybe he'll make us big shot
executives!!
Matt I.
DBloozz
I can't find a thing wrong with mt ES - 135 and it was built 12-12-98. I
bought it 12-24-98.
Peace
DBloozz
Polfus
>http://www.cyberramp.net/~cypher/paint/MVC-018S.JPG
>This picture shows the saddle. The notch is about 1mm or so, deep. Seems
>less than the other strings. This picture also shows the E-string off to the
>side of the saddle and resting on the bridge, where it has spent most of
>it's time since I re-strung it.
For some reason, I think that either you need to raise the bridge slightly (
did you put larger string guage on it?), and yes..the low E slot is supposed to
be less than the others.
Just buzz..thats all?
The guitar was FINE when you bought it, no?
YOU did something, or have changed string guages and not compensated by
adjusting the action, IMHO.
>http://www.cyberramp.net/~cypher/paint/MVC-024S.JPG
>This picture shows the full body of the guitar. Ain't it pretty?
Beautiful!
Polfus
Polfus
>Date: Sun, Feb 21, 1999 23:12 EST
>Message-id: <19990221231251...@ng13.aol.com>
I heard that!
Peace,
Polfus
DBloozz
I had a Starfire II. A fine guitar. But when I ran into my ES - 135 I traded
it for the 135. The Starfire was close to what I wanted. The 135 was what I
wanted. The floating bridge is a problem when playing blues and rock a billy
etc. as it moves. I had to repossition the bridge every time I played. The
roller bridge would be the way to go but the bridge would still move under hard
attack. Though I think the Guild humbuckers would be a nice upgrade for some
Gibsons. They sound like a cross between a Gibson humbucker and a single coil.
Peace
DBloozz
evil twin®
<guit...@geocities.com> wrote:
>Polfus wrote:
>>For some reason, I think that either you need to raise the bridge slightly
>>(did you put larger string guage on it?), and yes..the low E slot is
>>supposed to be less than the others.
>>
>>Just buzz..thats all?
>
>Didn't touch the bridge height. I put heavier strings on it. The bridge
>should be able to handle .046's as opposed to the .040's that came with it.
>Just buzz? No. The string slides completely off of the saddle. There's
>nothing to keep it from doing so. The string slot is nearly non-existant.
>
>>The guitar was FINE when you bought it, no?
>
>Seemed to be. Stock strings came off, new strings went on. Pow! E-string
>slides off the saddle.
>
>>YOU did something, or have changed string guages and not compensated by
>>adjusting the action, IMHO.
>
>Brilliant! We'll see what the warranty shop says.
Just hope you didn't void the warranty when you changed the
strings without authorization...
OASYSCO
>>I later bought an Epi archtop for
>>1/2 the price, put a Duncan '59 in the neck and now have that jazz tone
>>that I
>>was hoping the Es135 would bring but never did.
>So an Epiphone at half the price was better suited to your purposes, AND had
>better build quality? The "purposes" part is one thing, naturally...but the
>build quality thing is IMPORTANT.
I did not mean to suggest that the overall build quality of my Epi was better
than the Gibson. The Es135 was built like a tank and about 1.5 times heavier
than my Epi. Even so, my Epi has a nice straight neck, allowing me to get
decent action. With that said, I sent anohter Epi back due to intonation
problems. The Gibson did not have intonation problems; only action problems.
Greg
OASYSCO
Before you get too hot for those P-94's, check out Rio Grandes replacement
pickups - the Jazzbar for the neck and Bluesbar for the bridge. They sell on
http://www.elderly.com "cheapo-depot" for about $50 each. If I had held on to
my ES135, I would have swapped out the pickups for the Rio Grandes.
Greg
>>
>> Yes but I put P - 94 pickups in mine
>
>
>The P94 is a single coil, right? How did it sound?
>
>-Cypher
>http://www.cyberramp.net/~cypher/
Dan Stanley
Polfus wrote in message <19990221231823...@ng-fi1.aol.com>...
How about the other stuff...the stuff that started this discussion of flaws
in new Gibson
ES-135 models? Didja hear that, too? Fluke or trend?
Dan
Dan Stanley
Polfus wrote in message <19990221231728...@ng-fi1.aol.com>...
>>Subject: Re: Just bought a Gibson ES-135
>
>>http://www.cyberramp.net/~cypher/paint/MVC-018S.JPG
>>This picture shows the saddle. The notch is about 1mm or so, deep. Seems
>>less than the other strings. This picture also shows the E-string off to
the
>>side of the saddle and resting on the bridge, where it has spent most of
>>it's time since I re-strung it.
>
(
>did you put larger string guage on it?), and yes..the low E slot is
supposed to
>be less than the others.
?????! According to WHO? And WHY? Admit it, you make this stuff up as you go
along.
Dan
Ron Thompson
< snipped description of problem and links to the purty pitchurs...
Nice guitar Cypher, my condolences on the bridge though. You'll have to tweak that thing up a tad,
and get yer Authorized Fender Dealer to cut the bridge saddle, or get you another one cut to, yer
low E size, 46 I guess. By cut I mean filed correctly, often us non-luther types burr them up when
we set them to a particular string size. After that, you should be ok, depending on your right hand
technique, muting, resting on the bridge, etc.
Nice guitar though. Get that bridge fixed and play it a long time in good health!
--
rct
The opinions above are mine and mine alone.
Dan Stanley
Matthew Ivaliotes wrote in message <01be5e12$74cd81c0$b01a7e82@test>...
>> Maybe we should drop Henry J. a note. Better yet, I'll bake a pie...Matt,
>> you make a pot of coffee...and we'll drop in on him and chat in person.
>
>Sounds like a positively wonderful idea. Maybe he'll make us big shot
>executives!!
>
>Matt I.
I want to be in charge of ad copy....how about you?
SDan
Matthew Ivaliotes
Dan Stanley wrote:
> Matthew Ivaliotes wrote in message <01be5e12$74cd81c0$b01a7e82@test>...
> >Sounds like a positively wonderful idea. Maybe he'll make us big shot
> >executives!!
> I want to be in charge of ad copy....how about you?
Oh, that's easy. QC. And I want to start a Department of Subtle Tinge while
I'm at it. And get an adjustable stop tail bridge for the LP into development.
Matt 'slowly taking over the world' I.
Ron Thompson
> Oh, that's easy. QC.
So you'll be studying テnder: Quality Control Heard 'Round The World, Thompson/Hart, MacMillion,
circa 1995, right?
> And I want to start a Department of Subtle Tinge while I'm at it.
Shouldn't be too hard to do. Mosta them Gibson guys like to just sit around and stare at it all day
too.
> And get an adjustable stop tail bridge for the LP into development.
Good luck with that one...
> Matt 'slowly taking over the world' I.--
rc 'Matt has a long, looonnngg way to go, and it leads past Leo's place' t
Polfus
>Date: Mon, Feb 22, 1999 09:27 EST
>Message-id: <7arrd5$1...@news-central.tiac.net>
>
>
>Polfus wrote in message <19990221231823...@ng-fi1.aol.com>...
>>>Subject: Re: Just bought a Gibson ES-135
>>>Date: Sun, Feb 21, 1999 23:12 EST
>>>Message-id: <19990221231251...@ng13.aol.com>
>>>
>>>
>>> I can't find a thing wrong with mt ES - 135 and it was built 12-12-98.
>I
>>>bought it 12-24-98.
>>>
>>>
>>>Peace
>>>DBloozz
>>
>>I heard that!
>>
>>Peace,
>>Polfus
>
>How about the other stuff...the stuff that started this discussion of flaws
>in new Gibson
>ES-135 models? Didja hear that, too? Fluke or trend?
>
>Dan
The guitar was *FINE* when he got it.
Got it?
Matthew Ivaliotes
Polfus wrote:
> The guitar was *FINE* when he got it.
> Got it?
Except for the orange peel on the headstock, and the fact that the saddle
already had one slot smaller than the rest. Just because it worked with the
lighter strings doesn't mean it was right.
Matt I.
Polfus
2 things:
1) There is no "orange peel" on his black guitar, and the ones that do have it
( red pigments ) do NOT leave the factory that way...it occurs as a result of
temp changes and shipping, not to mention the method of storage.
2) These guitars are set-up with a certain string guage in mind, and to go
larger than factory specs nearly always, depending on the size change, warrants
a little filing. Basic stuff for guitars, Matt.
Peace,
Polfus
Matthew Ivaliotes
> 2 things:
> 1) There is no "orange peel" on his black guitar,
He said it's on the headstock, which you don't see in the picture. Tell *him* what
he doesn't see.
> and the ones that do have it
> ( red pigments ) do NOT leave the factory that way...it occurs as a result of
> temp changes and shipping, not to mention the method of storage.
This is the 'Gibson can do no wrong' stuff we're talking about. How do you *know*
it didn't happen at the factory?
> 2) These guitars are set-up with a certain string guage in mind,
What!?!?!
> and to go
> larger than factory specs nearly always, depending on the size change, warrants
> a little filing. Basic stuff for guitars, Matt.
You've got to be making that up. That's complete and utter nonsense. You do not
have to play 9s on an ES-135 in order to avoid filing the nut. I've switched up to
10s at one point on *every* guitar I have *ever* owned without doing a single bit
of nut filing.
Someone want to contact Gibson and tell them that their ES-135s are constrained to
one string guage from the factory, and need filing in order to change guage at all?
Matt I.
Matthew Ivaliotes
Matthew Ivaliotes wrote:
> You do not
> have to play 9s on an ES-135 in order to avoid filing the nut.
I meant bridge/tail, not nut. Although you can often change one guage in strings
without doing much of anything to the nut, either.
Matt I.
Jay Vyas
>
>
>Polfus wrote:
>
>> The guitar was *FINE* when he got it.
>> Got it?
>
>Except for the orange peel on the headstock, and the fact that the saddle
>already had one slot smaller than the rest. Just because it worked with the
>lighter strings doesn't mean it was right.
>
impression that mahogany had to have a bit of filler applied to it prior
to finishing if you want a smooth finish, and that the orange peel on the
sides of mahogany headstocks was just due to the fact that the
manufacturer didn't apply filler there. Not do to any kind of flaw.
Is this true, or was I fed a line?
Thanks ... Jay
mc...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Well, for the manufacturer to fail to apply filler to a mahogany part
of a guitar is usually considered a flaw.
Mickey Yahoo-Mooshoo
Pittsburgh, PA
>
> Is this true, or was I fed a line?
That parakeet is NOT dead, it's only sleeping.
>
> Thanks ... Jay
Dan Stanley
Polfus wrote in message <19990222145811...@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
>>
>>> The guitar was *FINE* when he got it.
>>> Got it?
>>
>>Except for the orange peel on the headstock, and the fact that the saddle
>>already had one slot smaller than the rest. Just because it worked with
the
>>lighter strings doesn't mean it was right.
>>
>
>2 things:
>
>1) There is no "orange peel" on his black guitar, and the ones that do have
it
>( red pigments ) do NOT leave the factory that way...it occurs as a result
of
>temp changes and shipping, not to mention the method of storage.
Go ask the folks at rmmbuilders what causes orange peel, me bucko!
They won't tell you what you just told us, certainly.
Just to be clear, "orange peel" has nothing to do with COLOR!...anymore than
"fisheye" has anything to with FISH.
Admit it, Polfus, you make this stuff as you go along.
>2) These guitars are set-up with a certain string guage in mind, and to go
>larger than factory specs nearly always, depending on the size change,
warrants
>a little filing. Basic stuff for guitars, Matt.
A few posts ago you suggested that the low e-string slot was SUPPOSED to
less deep than the others. You want to back that one up? This particular
guitar had an improperly filed saddle...and they let it out of the factory
anyway!
Dan
Dan Stanley
>>How about the other stuff...the stuff that started this discussion of
flaws
>>in new Gibson
>>ES-135 models? Didja hear that, too? Fluke or trend?
>>
>>Dan
>
>Got it?
Way to go! Blame the victim! Yeeee-HAW!
SDan
Polfus
>Date: Mon, Feb 22, 1999 17:14 EST
>Message-id: <7asm5n$k...@news-central.tiac.net>
Just don't blame it on Gibson's QC.
That would be ignorant.
Nick V. Flor
Cypher wrote in message <7aqd9o$8o8$1...@newshost.cyberramp.net>...
>Now, about Gibson's QC. It sucks, and it will probably always suck. Soon
>I'll have the warranty repair paperwork to prove it.
Now hold on there Cypher. My Gothic Flying-V, bought sight unseen, fresh
out of the box; was set up flawlessly and didn't have any of the usual flaws
that people mention. Maybe cuz it was a limited edition?
- Nick
Matthew Ivaliotes
Polfus wrote:
> Just don't blame it on Gibson's QC.
> That would be ignorant.
You misspelled 'accurate.' Hope this helps.
Matt I.
evil twin®
>>From: Matthew Ivaliotes <lo...@staff.uiuc.edu>
>
>>Polfus wrote:
>>
>>> The guitar was *FINE* when he got it.
>>> Got it?
>>
>>Except for the orange peel on the headstock, and the fact that the saddle
>>already had one slot smaller than the rest. Just because it worked with the
>>lighter strings doesn't mean it was right.
>>
>>Matt I.
>
>2 things:
>
>1) There is no "orange peel" on his black guitar,
He said there was. Are you calling him a liar?
>and the ones that do have it
>( red pigments ) do NOT leave the factory that way...it occurs as a result of
>temp changes and shipping, not to mention the method of storage.
Sure. In earlier posts, you claimed it was the way they
always built them, that it was a Gibson tradition or
something, implying that they did it that way on purpose at
the factory.
>2) These guitars are set-up with a certain string guage in mind, and to go
>larger than factory specs nearly always, depending on the size change, warrants
>a little filing. Basic stuff for guitars, Matt.
Not basic stuff on bridge saddles. They should be able to
handle a gauge or two (or three) larger strings. I don't
think the low E groove should be smaller than the others.
Ever.
And you forgot -
3) His pickups seem to be wired out of phase. I suppose
somebody custom ordered it that way, right?
evil twin®
<lo...@staff.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>Dan Stanley wrote:
>
>> Matthew Ivaliotes wrote in message <01be5e12$74cd81c0$b01a7e82@test>...
>> >Sounds like a positively wonderful idea. Maybe he'll make us big shot
>> >executives!!
>> I want to be in charge of ad copy....how about you?
>
>Oh, that's easy. QC. And I want to start a Department of Subtle Tinge while
>I'm at it.
Naturally.
>And get an adjustable stop tail bridge for the LP into development.
I thought the idea was to make them better...
Polfus
>Sure. In earlier posts, you claimed it was the way they
>always built them, that it was a Gibson tradition or
>something, implying that they did it that way on purpose at
>the factory.
Wrong, troll.
Polfus
>Date: Mon, Feb 22, 1999 18:19 EST
>Message-id: <36d1...@news3.us.ibm.net>
Maybe 'cause Cypher is a jackass?
He already says he cut his friggin' finger on a Gibson fret...now has gone and
bought another?!!!
Apparently only a Gibson *IS* good enough!!
Polfus
Cypher
Thanks Ron. I appreciate the comments. Gibson will be replacing the
defective bridge, so I don't expect that I'll need to do any filing on it.
Cypher
>The guitar was *FINE* when he got it.
>
>Got it?
Actually, it's hard to say. The demo model that they had on the floor played
fine. I took mine out of the box, played it a little bit, checking for bad
frets, etc. I didn't spend more than 5-10 minutes with the guitar that I
ended up buying in the store. It appeared to play fine, but I didn't exactly
check it our as carefully as I should have. I knew what I wanted when I went
to the store. I've been wanting one of these guitars for a long time. It's
my own fault that I didn't check it over carefully.
According to Gibson, the stock strings on that guitar are .042-.009. I
replaced them with .046-.009, a difference on the Low-E string of .004. This
apparently was big enough for it to sit on top of the incorrectly cut string
slot. I'll also note that the other two "fat" bottom-end strings sat in the
saddles fine, and you couldn't budge them without de-tuning the guitar, or
physically pulling them up off of the saddle.
I took the guitar to the Gibson warranty repair center. Immediately, upon
looking at the bridge, the tech said that it would have to be replaced, and
that he has seen this problem before. I asked him about filing the string
saddle to accomodate larger strings. He said that they almost never file the
string saddle because the stock string slot should accomodate any "normal"
string gauge. Mine was clearly defective. There you have it - Directly from
a Gibson authorized repair tech. I'll hopefully have the guitar back in less
than a week.
They are also going to look at the electronics. Gibson customer relations
said that the question I had about my pickups indicates that they are
possibly "wired incorrectly" and that I should take it in for warranty
repair.
Cypher
it
>( red pigments ) do NOT leave the factory that way...it occurs as a result
of
>temp changes and shipping, not to mention the method of storage.
Your definition of "orange peel" is obviously different than the one that I
use. "Orange Peel" is typically defined as ripples or bumps in the paint
caused by poor buffing in between coats of laquer or paint.
>2) These guitars are set-up with a certain string guage in mind, and to go
>larger than factory specs nearly always, depending on the size change,
warrants
>a little filing. Basic stuff for guitars, Matt.
According to Gibson, their string saddles will accomodate all "normal"
string gauges. OASYSCO used .054's on his ES-135 without a problem.
Cypher
>Just don't blame it on Gibson's QC.
>
>That would be ignorant.
No, ignorance is stating that the E-string saddle slot should be smaller
than the rest, that orange peel is usually reddish in color and is caused by
temperature changes, that you can't change gauges of strings on your guitars
without filing the string saddles, that I don't have orange peel on the
headstock of my guitar, and that I caused my low E-string problem.
Cypher
>Maybe 'cause Cypher is a jackass?
>
>He already says he cut his friggin' finger on a Gibson fret...now has gone
and
>bought another?!!!
>
>Apparently only a Gibson *IS* good enough!!
Good enough to land in the warranty repair shop two days after I bought it.
I'll note that this is the first Gibson I've ever bought (my past Epiphones
don't count, and my first guitar - ES-335 was given to me). Is only a Gibson
good enough? Good enought that I've owned hundreds of other guitars and only
one Gibson. Good enough that out of the 19 guitars that I currently own, I
only own one Gibson. So, then... Is only a Gibson good enough for me? Nah...
Again you're proven wrong by your own ignorant statements. And, yes... I did
slash my finger on a Gibson guitar with a poor fret job.
Your personal insults and name-calling don't make you look any less
ignorant, either.
evil twin®
>From: "Dan Stanley" <stan...@tiac.net>
>>
>>>>How about the other stuff...the stuff that started this discussion of
>>>>flaws in new Gibson ES-135 models? Didja hear that, too? Fluke or trend?
>>>>
>>>>Dan
>>>
>>>The guitar was *FINE* when he got it.
>>>Got it?
>>
>>Way to go! Blame the victim! Yeeee-HAW!
>>
>>SDan
>
>Just don't blame it on Gibson's QC.
>
>That would be ignorant.
No, THAT would be 100% correct. YOU are ignorant.
I guess you're feeble attempt at revisionism yesterday was
just more lies. Blatant QC problems are pointed out to you,
and you deny they exist. Again.
DBloozz
>defective bridge,
Are they replacing the whole bridge or just that one saddle?
Peace
DBloozz
evil twin®
>From: ha...@primary.net (evil twin®)
>
>>Sure. In earlier posts, you claimed it was the way they
>>always built them, that it was a Gibson tradition or
>>something, implying that they did it that way on purpose at
>>the factory.
>
>Wrong, troll.
Rough day changing bedpans, Fullpus?
I don't know why you always do this. You're such a lying
little maggot, but once again, Deja News has everything.
-----------------
Re: Another (new) Les Paul Fret Question
Author: Polfus <pol...@aol.com>
Date: 1998/08/08
Forum: rec.music.makers.guitar
Except for the occasional glue marks on the perimeter of the
trapezoidal inlays (obviously made by hand/human beings), or
the classic "orange peel" sides of the headstock, I would
like to know what is "significant" is it's quality to
warrant such comments. These have always been on Gibson Les
Pauls as far as I can remember.
----------------
What does classic mean in reference to orange peel? What
does it mean when you say the orange peel's always been on
Gibsons as far as you can remember?
It looks like...
ALL GIBSON LES PAULS SUFFER FROM A FLAWED FINISH, AND THEY
ALWAYS HAVE, ACCORDING TO POLFUS.
But it may just be a misunderstanding... Get that rectal
thermometer out of your mouth and pay attention.
Today you said the orange peel only occurs on red finishes,
but earlier you said it was only on sunbursts. That seems to
be a contradiction, Fullpus, and I can provide that post
too, if you'd like to lie about it. Your protestations
lately really don't make much sense, given that...
ALL GIBSON LES PAULS SUFFER FROM A FLAWED FINISH, AND THEY
ALWAYS HAVE, ACCORDING TO POLFUS.
So which is it, life saver? Only on red ones? Only on
sunburst ones? How did it happen to a black guitar? Are all
the Gibsons like that, or is it some flaw that occurs after
the guitar leaves the factory? Or is it maybe, just MAYBE, a
flaw that originated AT the factory because they didn't
finish it properly? And why are you trying to lie now, after
posting something that makes it seem like...
ALL GIBSON LES PAULS SUFFER FROM A FLAWED FINISH, AND THEY
ALWAYS HAVE, ACCORDING TO POLFUS.
I mean, I can name several builders who are using mahogany
and getting glass smooth finishes, so Gibson must be doing
something wrong. Right?
Or maybe it's just that...
ALL GIBSON LES PAULS SUFFER FROM A FLAWED FINISH, AND THEY
ALWAYS HAVE, ACCORDING TO POLFUS.
If you apologize now, you glorified diaper changer, I won't
even start in on the flawed inlays that you say are on all
Gibson Les Pauls...
Patrick F. Coleman
>>Subject: Re: Just bought a Gibson ES-135
>>From: "Nick V. Flor" <guitar...@worldnet.att.net>
>>Date: Mon, Feb 22, 1999 18:19 EST
>>Message-id: <36d1...@news3.us.ibm.net>
>>
>>
>>Cypher wrote in message <7aqd9o$8o8$1...@newshost.cyberramp.net>...
>>>Now, about Gibson's QC. It sucks, and it will probably always suck. Soon
>>>I'll have the warranty repair paperwork to prove it.
>>
>>Now hold on there Cypher. My Gothic Flying-V, bought sight unseen, fresh
>>out of the box; was set up flawlessly and didn't have any of the usual flaws
>>that people mention. Maybe cuz it was a limited edition?
>>
>>- Nick
Probably because a QC problem doesn't mean all the guitars are bad.
Not that Polly can figure that out.
You hear the complaints about this and that on Epis, and many other
guitars, yet my epi, like your gibson, really had no problem.
You can answer this question logically in most stores. No two alike of
any brand unless the store has actually done what few, if any, should
do.
Which is inspect them and set them up, and take care of them while
they are the owners.
congrats on your new V... I made the mistake of letting my son see
one, now he makes that whiny face at me all the time.
>Maybe 'cause Cypher is a jackass?
what's that?
did you squawk something polly?
>He already says he cut his friggin' finger on a Gibson fret...now has gone and
>bought another?!!!
Nice fella to be so understanding of a real problem yet willing to
give the company another shot.
>Apparently only a Gibson *IS* good enough!!
When you can't find a good epi, I guess.
Twang!
>Polfus
/-)
Polfus
>stupid?>Date: Mon, Feb 22, 1999 21:19 EST
>Message-id: <37000f8b....@news.primary.net>
Polfus
>Date: Mon, Feb 22, 1999 19:11 EST
>Message-id: <7asrd3$7uv$1...@newshost.cyberramp.net>
>>
>>Got it?
>
>
Well, that sucks!
Good luck,
Polfus
Polfus
>stupid?
>From: ha...@primary.net (evil twin®)
>Re: Another (new) Les Paul Fret Question
>Author: Polfus <pol...@aol.com>
>Date: 1998/08/08
>Forum: rec.music.makers.guitar
>
>Except for the occasional glue marks on the perimeter of the
>trapezoidal inlays (obviously made by hand/human beings), or
>the classic "orange peel" sides of the headstock, I would
>like to know what is "significant" is it's quality to
>warrant such comments. These have always been on Gibson Les
>Pauls as far as I can remember.
>----------------
>
>What does classic mean in reference to orange peel? What
>does it mean when you say the orange peel's always been on
>Gibsons as far as you can remember?
>
>It looks like...
>
>ALL GIBSON LES PAULS SUFFER FROM A FLAWED FINISH, AND THEY
>ALWAYS HAVE, ACCORDING TO POLFUS.
Wrong, little lady..I said "occasional" problems have always been on Les Pauls,
but you don't know how to read...only to TROLL.
Learn to read, and don't speak for me again, jackass.
Piss off.
Nick V. Flor
screw up.
Anyway, Cypher's a good guy. I believe him.
I have tried other Gibson's that made me cringe, like the Les Paul Studio.
Everyone I looked at was bad. However, all the Gibson DC's that I've tried
were pretty good.
Before I ordered my V, I tried out a black and a white V off the shelf. The
quality on those was pretty good. Also tried out serveral 335's that were
pretty good, just didn't care for the tone.
(Piano's and Stuff in Pittsburgh let's you try *anything*!!! :-)
FWIW,
- Nick
Keyser Soze wrote in message
<0F9ABD43C2EDAFD4.1210B153...@library-proxy.airnews.ne
t>...
>x-no-archive: yes
>
>On Mon, 22 Feb 1999 18:19:45 -0500, "Nick V. Flor"
><guitar...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>>Now hold on there Cypher. My Gothic Flying-V, bought sight unseen, fresh
>>out of the box; was set up flawlessly and didn't have any of the usual
flaws
>>that people mention. Maybe cuz it was a limited edition?
>
> It was a freak of nature. Enjoy your perfect Gibson. It's a
>one of a kind.
>
>
>
>
>Backcrkr
>--
>
>Of course that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
>
> - Dennis Miller
Matthew Ivaliotes
evil twin® <ha...@primary.net> wrote in article
<36f6e816....@news.primary.net>...
Yeah...then again, that would probably alienate their traditional market.
:)
Matt I.
Patrick F. Coleman
>>Subject: Re: Polfus, The Biggest Liar In The World... And did I mention he's
>>stupid?
>>From: ha...@primary.net (evil twin®)
>>Date: Mon, Feb 22, 1999 21:19 EST
>>Message-id: <37000f8b....@news.primary.net>
>>
>>On 22 Feb 1999 23:31:52 GMT, pol...@aol.com (Polfus) wrote:
>>
>>>From: ha...@primary.net (evil twin®)
>>>
>>>>Sure. In earlier posts, you claimed it was the way they
>>>>always built them, that it was a Gibson tradition or
>>>>something, implying that they did it that way on purpose at
>>>>the factory.
>>>
>>>Wrong, troll.
>>
>>Rough day changing bedpans, Fullpus?
>>
>>I don't know why you always do this. You're such a lying
>>little maggot, but once again, Deja News has everything.
>>
>>-----------------
>>Re: Another (new) Les Paul Fret Question
>>Author: Polfus <pol...@aol.com>
>>Date: 1998/08/08
>>Forum: rec.music.makers.guitar
>>
>>Except for the occasional glue marks on the perimeter of the
>>trapezoidal inlays (obviously made by hand/human beings), or
>>the classic "orange peel" sides of the headstock, I would
>>like to know what is "significant" is it's quality to
>>warrant such comments. These have always been on Gibson Les
>>Pauls as far as I can remember.
>>----------------
>>
>>What does classic mean in reference to orange peel? What
>>does it mean when you say the orange peel's always been on
>>Gibsons as far as you can remember?
>>
>>It looks like...
>>
>>ALL GIBSON LES PAULS SUFFER FROM A FLAWED FINISH, AND THEY
>>ALWAYS HAVE, ACCORDING TO POLFUS.
>>
>>But it may just be a misunderstanding... Get that rectal
>>thermometer out of your mouth and pay attention.
>>
>>Today you said the orange peel only occurs on red finishes,
>>but earlier you said it was only on sunbursts. That seems to
>>be a contradiction, Fullpus, and I can provide that post
>>too, if you'd like to lie about it. Your protestations
>>lately really don't make much sense, given that...
>>
>>ALL GIBSON LES PAULS SUFFER FROM A FLAWED FINISH, AND THEY
>>ALWAYS HAVE, ACCORDING TO POLFUS.
>>
>>So which is it, life saver? Only on red ones? Only on
>>sunburst ones? How did it happen to a black guitar? Are all
>>the Gibsons like that, or is it some flaw that occurs after
>>the guitar leaves the factory? Or is it maybe, just MAYBE, a
>>flaw that originated AT the factory because they didn't
>>finish it properly? And why are you trying to lie now, after
>>posting something that makes it seem like...
>>
>>ALL GIBSON LES PAULS SUFFER FROM A FLAWED FINISH, AND THEY
>>ALWAYS HAVE, ACCORDING TO POLFUS.
>>
>>I mean, I can name several builders who are using mahogany
>>and getting glass smooth finishes, so Gibson must be doing
>>something wrong. Right?
>>
>>Or maybe it's just that...
>>
>>ALL GIBSON LES PAULS SUFFER FROM A FLAWED FINISH, AND THEY
>>ALWAYS HAVE, ACCORDING TO POLFUS.
>>
>>If you apologize now, you glorified diaper changer, I won't
>>even start in on the flawed inlays that you say are on all
>>Gibson Les Pauls...
>></PRE></HTML>
mind go blank, Polly?
Twang!
/-)
Patrick F. Coleman
>>Subject: Re: Polfus, The Biggest Liar In The World... And did I mention he's
>>stupid?
>>From: ha...@primary.net (evil twin®)
>>Re: Another (new) Les Paul Fret Question
>>Author: Polfus <pol...@aol.com>
>>Date: 1998/08/08
>>Forum: rec.music.makers.guitar
>>
>>Except for the occasional glue marks on the perimeter of the
>>trapezoidal inlays (obviously made by hand/human beings), or
>>the classic "orange peel" sides of the headstock, I would
>>like to know what is "significant" is it's quality to
>>warrant such comments. These have always been on Gibson Les
>>Pauls as far as I can remember.
>>----------------
>>
>>What does classic mean in reference to orange peel? What
>>does it mean when you say the orange peel's always been on
>>Gibsons as far as you can remember?
>>
>>It looks like...
>>
>>ALL GIBSON LES PAULS SUFFER FROM A FLAWED FINISH, AND THEY
>>ALWAYS HAVE, ACCORDING TO POLFUS.
>Wrong, little lady..I said "occasional" problems have always been on Les Pauls,
>but you don't know how to read...only to TROLL.
Now Polly.
You said occaisional in reference to glue, but classic in reference
to orange peel.
Sean asked you what classic meant, having carefull read your post,
accurately.
And you KNOW the answer to that is close to: expect this, it's what
defined the (in this case) company.
It would HAVE to be SIGNIFICANT for you to use the word classic.
Or, you wrote it poorly.
If you did, simply say;
"Well, I wrote it poorly, what I really mean is classic in the
sense of well known, but not really significant in view of the
tremendous output of gibson as regards finish flaws as far as I'm
concerned personally, although I can understand why you would think
that significant."
And Sean quoted you perfectly, so you should also add:
"Gee, I screwed up.What I meant to say is that I know these finish
flaws and sloppy glue on the inlays problems have been on gibsons, not
all of them-but so many that we can go back years and years and find
them. I'm sorry if I insulted you needlessly over my error. You did
read and understand me perfectly."
In short:
A. Gibson has a long history of sloppy glue, and orange peel on their
guitars.
B. Polly has a long history of insulting people over his own errors.
>Learn to read, and don't speak for me again, jackass.
Learn to write and quit being a jackass.
>Piss off.
Clean yer cage!
P----U----!!!
My apologies to ET for stumbling on this before him.
Twang!
/-)
evil twin®
>>From: ha...@primary.net (evil twin®)
>
>>Re: Another (new) Les Paul Fret Question
>>Author: Polfus <pol...@aol.com>
>>Date: 1998/08/08
>>Forum: rec.music.makers.guitar
>>
>>Except for the occasional glue marks on the perimeter of the
>>trapezoidal inlays (obviously made by hand/human beings), or
>>the classic "orange peel" sides of the headstock, I would
>>like to know what is "significant" is it's quality to
>>warrant such comments. These have always been on Gibson Les
>>Pauls as far as I can remember.
>>----------------
>>
>>What does classic mean in reference to orange peel? What
>>does it mean when you say the orange peel's always been on
>>Gibsons as far as you can remember?
>>
>>It looks like...
>>
>>ALL GIBSON LES PAULS SUFFER FROM A FLAWED FINISH, AND THEY
>>ALWAYS HAVE, ACCORDING TO POLFUS.
>
>Wrong, little lady..
Wrong? I think not.
>I said "occasional" problems have always been on Les Pauls,
Oh, no. You said, "These have always been on Gibson Les
Pauls as far as I can remember." I don't see the word
occasional there. I see the word ALWAYS. I do see the word
occasional in reference to the flawed inlays, but we weren't
discussing that. We were discussing the fact that...
ALL GIBSON LES PAULS SUFFER FROM A FLAWED FINISH, AND THEY
ALWAYS HAVE, ACCORDING TO POLFUS.
>but you don't know how to read...
I know I read a couple posts from you yesterday where you
stated that only the red finishes had these flaws. But then
you've previously said only the sunburst finishes have the
flaw. And we know now that the black ones have the flaw. So
I guess...
ALL GIBSON LES PAULS SUFFER FROM A FLAWED FINISH, AND THEY
ALWAYS HAVE, ACCORDING TO POLFUS.
>only to TROLL.
Choke on the hook, life saver.
>Learn to read, and don't speak for me again, jackass.
I know how to read. I read your statements, and it appears
that...
ALL GIBSON LES PAULS SUFFER FROM A FLAWED FINISH, AND THEY
ALWAYS HAVE, ACCORDING TO POLFUS.
And after all, you're the Gibson expert, Fullpus. I guess
we'll take you word for it.
>Piss off.
AND ACOORDING TO POLFUS, THE INLAY WORK ON LES PAULS IS
OCCASIONALLY FLAWED TOO.
Hope this helps.
fse...@my-dejanews.com
pol...@aol.com (Polfus) wrote:
> >Subject: Re: Just bought a Gibson ES-135
> >From: "Cypher" <guit...@geocities.com>
> >Date: Mon, Feb 22, 1999 19:11 EST
> >Message-id: <7asrd3$7uv$1...@newshost.cyberramp.net>
> >
> >Polfus wrote in message <19990222143658...@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
> >
> >>The guitar was *FINE* when he got it.
> >>
> >>Got it?
> >
> >
> >Actually, it's hard to say. The demo model that they had on the floor played
> >fine. I took mine out of the box, played it a little bit, checking for bad
> >frets, etc. I didn't spend more than 5-10 minutes with the guitar that I
> >ended up buying in the store. It appeared to play fine, but I didn't exactly
> >check it our as carefully as I should have. I knew what I wanted when I went
> >to the store. I've been wanting one of these guitars for a long time. It's
> >my own fault that I didn't check it over carefully.
> >
> >According to Gibson, the stock strings on that guitar are .042-.009. I
> >replaced them with .046-.009, a difference on the Low-E string of .004. This
> >apparently was big enough for it to sit on top of the incorrectly cut string
> >slot. I'll also note that the other two "fat" bottom-end strings sat in the
> >saddles fine, and you couldn't budge them without de-tuning the guitar, or
> >physically pulling them up off of the saddle.
This is a matter of the low e string having less tension over the bridge
saddle. If you strike it hard it will come out. Have the saddle cut EXACTLY
to the guage you want it to be, but maybe a little deeper. That will solve
the problem. I think your service center is feeding you mis-information so
he can make some money. New bridge saddles can be cut to your guage.
> >
> >I took the guitar to the Gibson warranty repair center. Immediately, upon
> >looking at the bridge, the tech said that it would have to be replaced, and
> >that he has seen this problem before. I asked him about filing the string
> >saddle to accomodate larger strings. He said that they almost never file the
> >string saddle because the stock string slot should accomodate any "normal"
> >string gauge. Mine was clearly defective. There you have it - Directly from
> >a Gibson authorized repair tech. I'll hopefully have the guitar back in less
> >than a week.
If this were a les paul this would be more true because of there being more
of a breakaway behind the bridge. I had the same problem, I put bigger
strings on mine, and had a little problem with the string sitting too shallow
in the smaller pre-cut slot.
Try a second opinion.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Dan Stanley
Nick V. Flor wrote in message <36d1...@news3.us.ibm.net>...
>
>Cypher wrote in message <7aqd9o$8o8$1...@newshost.cyberramp.net>...
>>Now, about Gibson's QC. It sucks, and it will probably always suck. Soon
>>I'll have the warranty repair paperwork to prove it.
>
>out of the box; was set up flawlessly and didn't have any of the usual
flaws
>that people mention. Maybe cuz it was a limited edition?
>
I think that when Gibson introduces a new model, or a limited edition like
yours, they DO give more care to the instrument. I don't know if it is due
to the excitement of a "new thing", or an intentional move to help insure a
successful launch, though...probably a little of each.
I think with the LP DC for example, they have stopped using the prettier
wood, and will be announcing a price increase soon. That guitar has been
pretty successful for them, certainly, but now it will be a line product,
and treated a whole lot more like the LP Std.
That's my bet, anyway
Dan Stanley
Polfus wrote in message <19990222183152...@ng-fi1.aol.com>...
>>Subject: Re: Just bought a Gibson ES-135
>
>>Sure. In earlier posts, you claimed it was the way they
>>always built them, that it was a Gibson tradition or
>>something, implying that they did it that way on purpose at
>>the factory.
>
>Wrong, troll.
I think I remember that, too.
How about "orange peel" being a result of "red pigment"...how are you going
to back THAT one up?!
Laughing all the way to the bank,
Dan
Dan Stanley
Polfus wrote in message <19990222224828...@ng-ch1.aol.com>...
>>Subject: Re: Just bought a Gibson ES-135
>>Date: Mon, Feb 22, 1999 19:11 EST
>>Message-id: <7asrd3$7uv$1...@newshost.cyberramp.net>
>>
>>Polfus wrote in message <19990222143658...@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
>>>The guitar was *FINE* when he got it.
>>>Got it?
>>
>>Actually, it's hard to say.
>>According to Gibson, the stock strings on that guitar are .042-.009. I
>>replaced them with .046-.009, a difference on the Low-E string of .004.
This
>>apparently was big enough for it to sit on top of the incorrectly cut
string
>>slot. I'll also note that the other two "fat" bottom-end strings sat in
the
>>saddles fine, and you couldn't budge them without de-tuning the guitar, or
>>physically pulling them up off of the saddle.
>>I took the guitar to the Gibson warranty repair center.
>>Immediately, upon looking at the bridge, the tech said that it would have
to be replaced, and
>>that he has seen this problem before.
>> I asked him about filing the string
>>saddle to accomodate larger strings. He said that they almost never file
the
>>string saddle because the stock string slot should accomodate any "normal"
>>string gauge.
>>Mine was clearly defective. There you have it - Directly from
>>a Gibson authorized repair tech.
>>I'll hopefully have the guitar back in less
>>than a week.
>>
>>They are also going to look at the electronics. Gibson customer relations
>>said that the question I had about my pickups indicates that they are
>>possibly "wired incorrectly" and that I should take it in for warranty
>>repair.
>>
>>-Cypher
>
>Well, that sucks!
>
>Good luck,
>Polfus
What sucks? That Cypher got a guitar that shouldn't have passed even a
cursory glance at QC, or that you blamed *him* for the problems on his new
guitar?
Love,
Dan
SEFSTRAT
>>>ALWAYS HAVE, ACCORDING TO POLFUS.
>AND ACOORDING TO POLFUS, THE INLAY WORK ON LES PAULS IS
>OCCASIONALLY FLAWED TOO.
You forgot to mention that the sometimes drill the holes for the pots in at a
crappy angle, too...
Never shoulda moved outta Kalamazoo.....
Steve
SEFSTRAT
(remove "nospam" from address for return email)
webpage: http://members.aol.com/sefstrat/index.html/sefpage.html
Polfus
>I think with the LP DC for example, they have stopped using the prettier
>wood, and will be announcing a price increase soon. That guitar has been
>pretty successful for them, certainly, but now it will be a line product,
>and treated a whole lot more like the LP Std.
>
>That's my bet, anyway
I glad you enjoyed my information regarding the changes in the DC Standard.
Polfus
Polfus
>stupid?
>
>>ALL GIBSON LES PAULS SUFFER FROM A FLAWED FINISH, AND THEY ALWAYS HAVE,
ACCORDING TO POLFUS.
I have never said that...thats Sean Hart trolling.
>>AND ACOORDING TO POLFUS, THE INLAY WORK ON LES PAULS IS OCCASIONALLY FLAWED
TOO.
I said that I hate left-over fret rouge. The other part is Sean Hart trolling.
Polfus
Dan Stanley
>>Message-id: <7asm5n$k...@news-central.tiac.net>
>>
>>
>>>>How about the other stuff...the stuff that started this discussion of
>>flaws
>>>>in new Gibson
>>>>ES-135 models? Didja hear that, too? Fluke or trend?
>>>>
>>>>Dan
>>>
>>>Got it?
>>
>>SDan
>
>Just don't blame it on Gibson's QC.
>That would be ignorant.
Not taking the time to check that the saddle slot on the low e-string is
sufficiently deep IS a QC problem.
The person who strung the guitar up at the factory should have noticed that
problem, called it to someone else's attention, and it should have been
fixed. Period.
The person who installed the bridge in the first place should have LOOKED at
it before passing it down the line. If that person had any real feeling for
guitars, he or she would have recognized that it wasn't right. It should
have been called to someone else's attention, and fixed. Period.
That's TWO levels of QC (and simple eyeballing type stuff) that failed.
Dan
Dan
Dan Stanley
Polfus wrote in message <19990223113801...@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
>>wood, and will be announcing a price increase soon. That guitar has been
>>pretty successful for them, certainly, but now it will be a line product,
>>and treated a whole lot more like the LP Std.
>>
>>That's my bet, anyway
>
>I glad you enjoyed my information regarding the changes in the DC Standard.
>Polfus
You agree then that Gibson is reducing it's "pretty wood", increasing the
price, and the guitar will probably get the same shoddy QC treatment as the
rest of the Std. line?
<ON Monty Burns voice>
Excellent
<OFF>
SDan
fse...@my-dejanews.com
saddle. If you strike it hard it will come out. Have the saddle cut EXACTLY
to the guage you want it to be, but maybe a little deeper. That will solve
the problem. I think your service center is feeding you mis-information so
he can make some money. New bridge saddles can be cut to your guage.
> >
> >I took the guitar to the Gibson warranty repair center. Immediately, upon
> >looking at the bridge, the tech said that it would have to be replaced, and
> >that he has seen this problem before. I asked him about filing the string
> >saddle to accomodate larger strings. He said that they almost never file the
> >string saddle because the stock string slot should accomodate any "normal"
> >string gauge. Mine was clearly defective. There you have it - Directly from
> >a Gibson authorized repair tech. I'll hopefully have the guitar back in less
> >than a week.
If this were a les paul this would be more true because of there being more
of a breakaway behind the bridge. I had the same problem, I put bigger
strings on mine, and had a little problem with the string sitting too shallow
in the smaller pre-cut slot.Try a second opinion.
Dan Stanley
Keyser Soze wrote in message
t>...
>x-no-archive: yes
>
>On Tue, 23 Feb 1999 09:53:26 -0500, "Dan Stanley" <stan...@tiac.net>
>wrote:
>
>>I think I remember that, too.
>>How about "orange peel" being a result of "red pigment"...how are you
going
>>to back THAT one up?!
>
>Because he CAN'T! Polfus is the master of self delusion. He actually
>believes his own bullshit - and naively and stupidly thinks that we
>should too.
>
> Polfus is a pathological liar, a pseudo-pedant (who uses a
>fucking CD ROM to back up his ignorant, twisted tirades), and THE
>biggest troll we've ever seen in RMMG.
Oh, I dunno...there's this guy, "Sean Hart" who apparently is a big troll. I
read it somewhere, so it must be true.
I'm keeping my eyes open for this Stevie Dan character...my sources tell me
he is even worse.
Let me know what you've heard...
SDan
mc...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
>
>
> Oh, I dunno...there's this guy, "Sean Hart" who apparently is a big troll. I
> read it somewhere, so it must be true.
> I'm keeping my eyes open for this Stevie Dan character...my sources tell me
> he is even worse.
>
> Let me know what you've heard...
>
> SDan
Well, what *I* have heard is that Stevie Dan is not a big troll.
He's a small dwarf with a taste for cigars.
Hope this helps
Mickey
Polfus
>Tell me something, Polfus. How's life at the shallow end of
>the gene pool?
>
>
>
>Backcrkr
Troll!
Cypher
t>...
>x-no-archive: yes
>
>On Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:02:04 -0500, "Dan Stanley" <stan...@tiac.net>
>wrote:
>
>>What sucks? That Cypher got a guitar that shouldn't have passed even a
>>cursory glance at QC, or that you blamed *him* for the problems on his new
>>guitar?
>
>which resulted in him purchasing a Gibson.
LOL!!!! That's the truth! Ohwell...
Maybe I'll make up for the mistake by buying.... a Ghia. :)
Cypher
>This is a matter of the low e string having less tension over the bridge
>saddle. If you strike it hard it will come out. Have the saddle cut
EXACTLY
>to the guage you want it to be, but maybe a little deeper. That will solve
>the problem. I think your service center is feeding you mis-information so
>he can make some money. New bridge saddles can be cut to your guage.
Replacing the bridge is a five-minute fix. Why would they be feeding me any
mis-information? They're fixing the guitar under warranty.
evil twin®
(SEFSTRAT) wrote:
>Never shoulda moved outta Kalamazoo.....
Some of them didn't.
http://www.heritageguitar.com/default.htm
Hope this helps.
Dan Stanley
Cypher wrote in message <7ava7n$5vh$1...@newshost.cyberramp.net>...
It was a pretty big mistake...you better buy EVERYONE a Ghia! ;-}
Once the guitar gets fixed up, I think everything will be fine. Really.
Let us know how it turns out.
Dan
evil twin®
>I have never said that...thats Sean Hart trolling.
Sure you did. And I'll keep quoting it until you stop lying.
>I said that I hate left-over fret rouge.
Well, I was trying to be nice, so I left your statements
about flawed fretwork. We'll get to that later, if I have
time.
>The other part is Sean Hart trolling.
Well, here's exactly what you said, bedpan boy:
-----------------
Re: Another (new) Les Paul Fret Question
Author: Polfus <pol...@aol.com>
Date: 1998/08/08
Forum: rec.music.makers.guitar
Except for the occasional glue marks on the perimeter of the
trapezoidal inlays (obviously made by hand/human beings), or
the classic "orange peel" sides of the headstock, I would
like to know what is "significant" is it's quality to
warrant such comments. These have always been on Gibson Les
Pauls as far as I can remember.
----------------
I don't see anything there about leftover fret rouge. I see
something about occasional glue marks on the perimeter of
the inlays. And I see something about the orange peel, which
you feel is 'classic'. And then there's your statement that
these have always been on Les Pauls.
I thought I told you to quit playing with the rectal
thermometer..? Those are your own words, Fullpus, and here's
a few more:
------------------
Re: Another (new) Les Paul Fret Question
Author: Polfus <pol...@aol.com>
Date: 1998/08/10
Forum: rec.music.makers.guitar
Sean's complaints about the guitar's playability, or neck
feel, or tuner feel, or ability to bend, etc., and remain
with flaws that I cannot find, other than the "orange peel"
( which is *only* with Sunbursts,
--------------------
Re: Just bought a Gibson ES-135
Author: Polfus <pol...@aol.com>
Date 1999/02/22
Forum: rec.music.makers.guitar
1) There is no "orange peel" on his black guitar,
and the ones that do have it ( red pigments )
--------------------
That seems to be quite a contradiction, Fullpus. Are you
pilfering narcotics? First, you said it was a classic
feature, present on all Les Pauls for as far back as you
could remember. In other words...
ALL GIBSON LES PAULS SUFFER FROM A FLAWED FINISH, AND THEY
ALWAYS HAVE, ACCORDING TO POLFUS.
Then you said it only occurred on sunbursts. Which would
seem to mean...
GIBSON IS INCAPABLE OF APPLYING A SUNBURST FINISH IN A
SATISFACTORY MANNER, RESULTING IN ORANGE PEEL ON ALL
SUNBURST GIBSON GUITARS, ACCORDING TO POLFUS.
Lately, you say it's only on red ones, and deny your other
two statements exist. I hope your patients get better
treatment. See, this makes it seem as though, contrary to
your earlier statements,
GIBSON IS INCAPABLE OF APPLYING A RED FINISH IN A
SATISFACTORY MANNER, RESULTING IN ORANGE PEEL ON ALL RED
GIBSON GUITARS, ACCORDING TO POLFUS.
Man, you really are having trouble keeping your lies
straight. I think, just to eliminate any confusion, your
statements can best be summed up with...
ALL GIBSON LES PAULS SUFFER FROM A FLAWED FINISH, AND THEY
ALWAYS HAVE, ACCORDING TO POLFUS.
And let's not forget...
ACCORDING TO POLFUS, THE INLAY WORK ON LES PAULS IS
OCCASIONALLY FLAWED TOO.
Hope this helps.
Mark Garvin
>[] Well, what *I* have heard is that Stevie Dan is not a big troll.
>[] He's a small dwarf with a taste for cigars.
>chri...@microsoft.comX (Not A Speck Of Cereal) writes:
>I have always imagined him to be more elvish like, you know? With,
>like, hair along the rim of his pointy ears and lots of puffy ear
>hears comin' out from the canal...
It's a comb-over. If you look carefully you'll see that
those are actually nose-hairs!
MG
(Dan's still a babe-magnet, tho!)