What's happened to Gibson?

[Don Pearce]

Today I went to buy a christmas present for my niece. I was going to
get her a nice new Gibson SG Standard. When I got to the shop, I was
shocked. How can anyone get a flat piece of wood so crooked? And I
could do a better job of applying the finish with a wallpaper paste
brush. Needless to say I left without making a purchase.

Now I'm home, I've had a look at my old Les Paul and SG (from the
'60s), and the finish is still flawless. When and how did Gibson fall
so low?

d

[Carl]

I think your experience was the exception, not the rule. It's my opinion
that the quality of production of both Fender and Gibson has risen
dramatically in the past few years and that they are producing many
instruments on a par with some boutique builders.

Are you sure you weren't looking at one of their off-beat "distressed"
versions of the SG?

Just to be clear, I have no real horse in this race. Currently, I buy either
vintage guitars or one-off luthier-made ones. It's a hobby. Being not a
working musician, I lost interest in what I call "standard production"
guitars some time ago and have no stake in whether Gibson (or Fender) are
producing good guitars. I just thought that a single experience with a
single guitar should not automatically lead to a generalization such as the
one you are implying. It's unfair to the company.

My son does use some production guitars (he is a touring and recording
musician and likes Gibsons, Fenders, and Reverends) and he hasn't had a
"bad" one yet. As a matter of fact, he just sold a Gibson 339 Custom that he
bought about a year ago. It was close to perfect.

[Don Pearce]

Where did I make a generalization? I offered my specific experience of
a specific trip into central London to buy a specific model of a
specific make. The few Gibson dealers I found there offered me a
selection of perhaps two dozen guitars. They all had a similarly poor
quality of finish. In regard to these guitars, Gibson have most
certainly failed.

Now it may be that this is a rogue batch that somehow made it through
QA unchecked, but I have no way of verifying that. The dealers didn't
look like they were going to pack them up and ship them back any time
soon. If there are good ones out there, great. They certainly didn't
make it to where I was trying to buy.

d

[Washed Marge]

Don, I don't believe a word of your tale; you are either exaggerating
to the nth degree or are simply lying. Anyone who has any knowledge
whatsoever of Gibson Guitar Corporation instruments knows that none
are produced with the kinds of flaws you describe and offered for
sale.

Your story is pure bullshit.

[Don Pearce]

On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 21:09:22 -0800 (PST), Washed Marge
<ma...@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Don, I don't believe a word of your tale; you are either exaggerating
>to the nth degree or are simply lying. Anyone who has any knowledge
>whatsoever of Gibson Guitar Corporation instruments knows that none
>are produced with the kinds of flaws you describe and offered for
>sale.
>
>Your story is pure bullshit.

In guitars, as in every other facet of life, beliefs have nothing to
do with facts. If you believe that Gibson have some kind of
ex-cathedra infallibility good for you. I hope you are happy in your
delusion. But when you voice it in public, you pay a price - people
move away from you on the bus, if you know what I mean.

d

[Robb Scott]

In article
<134e653f-e0a9-4f26...@w8g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,

Washed Marge <ma...@mindspring.com> wrote:

> Don, I don't believe a word of your tale; you are either exaggerating
> to the nth degree or are simply lying. Anyone who has any knowledge
> whatsoever of Gibson Guitar Corporation instruments knows that none
> are produced with the kinds of flaws you describe and offered for
> sale.
>
> Your story is pure bullshit.

Polfus? Is that you?

[David Raleigh Arnold]

Is it a Gibsun? That was an old fraud. The U was almost
an O. Regards, daveA

--
Information is not knowledge, indoctrination is not teaching,
tradition is not evidence, and belief is not truth.

[Don Pearce]

On Wed, 19 Dec 2012 20:06:16 +0000 (UTC), David Raleigh Arnold
<d.raleig...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 11 Dec 2012 13:46:32 +0000, Don Pearce wrote:
>
>> Today I went to buy a christmas present for my niece. I was going to get
>> her a nice new Gibson SG Standard. When I got to the shop, I was
>> shocked. How can anyone get a flat piece of wood so crooked? And I could
>> do a better job of applying the finish with a wallpaper paste brush.
>> Needless to say I left without making a purchase.
>>
>> Now I'm home, I've had a look at my old Les Paul and SG (from the '60s),
>> and the finish is still flawless. When and how did Gibson fall so low?
>>
>> d
>
>Is it a Gibsun? That was an old fraud. The U was almost
>an O. Regards, daveA

It was a Gibson, in an accredited Gibson dealership.

d

[Carl]

[deleted for the sake of brevity and for staying on point]
>
Perhaps you don't understand the use of the word "generalization"?
Just to help you understand, the question in your Subject heading is a
generalization. Your original tale (and experience) of the ONE guitar you
looked at should NEVER lead to the question, "What's happened to Gibson?".
THAT is a generalization.

The fact that you added in a later post that ALL the Gibsons in the store
were bad has no bearing on my response to your first post, which was based
on the description of and experience with a SINGLE guitar.

It's a greater shame that instead of taking my message to you, thinking it
through and internalizing it, you reduced your credibility further by
attempting to defend your post.

[Carl]

Excuse me, but was it a "a (single) Gibson, in an (single) accredited Gibson
dealership" (post 1) or was it "few Gibson dealers I found there (that)
offered me a selection of perhaps two dozen guitars" (post 2)?

The versions keep changing.

Look, I'm sure you're a good man with well-meaning intentions here. It's my
experience that Gibson produces excellent guitars these days, as does
Fender. There was a period from perhaps the '70's through the '90's during
which this wasn't so, but the market spoke loudly to them and I have found
that they have met the challenge of improving their QC.

I have both a '90 ES-335 and a '98 Custom Shop ES-336, both of which are
exemplary examples of fine guitar craftsmanship. My son's Custom Shop 339
was nothing to scoff at either. And they're producing these for sale in the
$2000 range. Boutique builders are charging double for equivalent guitars.

We can Gibson-bash as much as we want, but let's give credit where credit is
due too.

[Don Pearce]

Carl, do us all a favour and just belt up, will you? You're getting
mighty boring now.

d

[Tony Done]

There are two urban myths here in Oz regarding Gibson, the first may be
true, the second almost surely isn't:

1) The biggest single market for Gibson is Japan
2) Japan gets the best, the US gets the reasonable stuff, the rest of
the world gets the rest.

The poor quality control for fit and finish is legendary (as above) here
in Oz, and I have a fine example - My 1995 LP Special looks like the
board binding crenelations were cut with a blunt firemans axe. I have
seen many examples of sloppy f&f, some of which may have been
detrimental to performance, and have commented on some of them in
previous Usenet posts over a long period. I recall one that IMO was
outstandingly bad - a very expensive model, I forget what, with router
chatter around all the top edge binding. I'm not sure if it is true now,
but a few years ago I could pick up just about any Gibson and find a
fault in the f&f. In contrast, you could pickup up Martin or Taylor and
find no flaws. The high price we were paying was seen as adding insult
to injury.

However, I think we have become accustomed to expecting near-perfection
in f&f in good factory guitars, and this really shouldn't be what buying
an guitar is about. I understand that the traditional classical makers
weren't/aren't half so fussy as we have become. The price of low-end
Gibsons is now in the same range as MIM Fenders here in Oz, and I assume
the have maintained the use of high-quality materials and saved on
cosmetics. I'm all in favour of that - produce affordable players - but
there is always the thought that if the f&f is ordinary, what kind of
materials are they using?

--
Tony Done

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=784456
http://www.flickr.com/photos/done_family/