Jerry Garcia's mode
Cadfael51
name of.
Can anyone help?
A B C# D E F# G A
Thanks...
Neil
Brad McFarlane
ndu...@earthlink.net (Cadfael51) wrote:
Is is mixolydian? It looks like the normal major scale (A B C# D E F# G# A)
but with a flattened seventh (i.e., G instead of G#). Frank Zappa was also
fond of this (and FZ admired Jeff Beck's use of it, too).
Aloha,
Brad
--
Brad McFarlane
Newbridge Networks Corp.
Kanata, Ont., CANADA
Kris Hartung
: Jerry Garcia seemed to favor playing in a mode that I'd like to know the
: name of.
: Can anyone help?
: A B C# D E F# G A
That's A Mixolydian.
Kris
RJClayton
>>
>> Neil
>
>Is is mixolydian? It looks like the normal major scale (A B C# D E F# G# A)
>but with a flattened seventh (i.e., G instead of G#). Frank Zappa was also
>fond of this (and FZ admired Jeff Beck's use of it, too).
>
>Aloha,
>Brad
>
>--
>Brad McFarlane
Yup! Mixolydian all the way. Another useful mode is Dorian (think C scale
starting w/ D -- D, E, F, G, A, B, C, D -- in A, it'd be A, B, C, D, E, F#, G,
A). Don't know that Garcia used it much, but, being pretty folky, I'd guess he
did some.
Bob (mode man) Clayton, S.R.
Quality music since 1963.
John Sheehy
ndu...@earthlink.net (Cadfael51) wrote :
>Jerry Garcia seemed to favor playing in a mode that I'd like to know the
>name of.
>
>Can anyone help?
>
>A B C# D E F# G A
That would be the very common mixolydian mode.
--
<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
John P Sheehy <jsh...@ix.netcom.com>
><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
Rich Johnson
> Jerry Garcia seemed to favor playing in a mode that I'd like to know the
> name of.
>
> Can anyone help?
>
> A B C# D E F# G A
That's A Mixolydian.
____________________________________________________________________________
Rich Johnson, http://www-pub.naz.edu:9000/~rsjohnso/index.html
"I coulda gone out there and lost weight, but I like to eat cupcakes."
-Missy "Misdemeanor" Elliot
Dan Stanley
John Sheehy wrote in message <370023a9...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>...
>In message <MPG.1161a3757...@news.earthlink.net>,
>ndu...@earthlink.net (Cadfael51) wrote :
>
>>Jerry Garcia seemed to favor playing in a mode that I'd like to know the
>>name of.
>>
>>Can anyone help?
>>
>>A B C# D E F# G A
>
Which should not be confused with the double breasted red flanged mixolydian
mode, which can only be played on an oboe, or, if it's Thursday, a bassoon.
Actually there is some controversy about whether it is actually a mode at
all. Scientists have claimed it is merely a pool of spit, and have suggested
trombone players, jealous of the sexual prowess of oboists, are somehow
responsible.
Leading trombonists dispute this, naturally.
Film at eleven.
SDan
John Sheehy
"Dan Stanley" <stan...@tiac.net> wrote :
>Which should not be confused with the double breasted red flanged mixolydian
>mode, which can only be played on an oboe, or, if it's Thursday, a bassoon.
>Actually there is some controversy about whether it is actually a mode at
>all. Scientists have claimed it is merely a pool of spit, and have suggested
>trombone players, jealous of the sexual prowess of oboists, are somehow
>responsible.
>Leading trombonists dispute this, naturally.
>Film at eleven.
Wow. Maybe you should answer all these questions from now on. I didn't
know half that stuff.
rdod...@hotmail.com
ndu...@earthlink.net (Cadfael51) wrote:
> Jerry Garcia seemed to favor playing in a mode that I'd like to know the
> name of.
>
Stoned ;-)
-Rodger
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Adrian Clark
> Which should not be confused with the double breasted red flanged mixolydian
> mode, which can only be played on an oboe, or, if it's Thursday, a bassoon.
Don't know if you'd get away with that round here. There's a large
Muslim community, and Thursday is, of course, the day of their
"embarrass the sheep" ceremony. Playing a bassoon would be taken as an
insult to their culture. I think some of the less fundamental members of
the community now agree that the Eb clarinet is no longer taboo.
Adrian
--
__________________________________________________
All right? Hallo? While you lie still,
biting hoover bag, sweep dust in ee gob.
And better than the outside really. Possibly. No.
Dan Stanley
John Sheehy wrote in message <370c5f84...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>...
>In message <7d9m2c$o...@news-central.tiac.net>,
>"Dan Stanley" <stan...@tiac.net> wrote :
>
>>Which should not be confused with the double breasted red flanged
mixolydian
>>mode, which can only be played on an oboe, or, if it's Thursday, a
bassoon.
>
>>all. Scientists have claimed it is merely a pool of spit, and have
suggested
>>trombone players, jealous of the sexual prowess of oboists, are somehow
>>responsible.
>>Leading trombonists dispute this, naturally.
>>Film at eleven.
>
>Wow. Maybe you should answer all these questions from now on. I didn't
>know half that stuff.
You should spend more time with bassoonists. They know EVERYTHING!
Just teasing, John.
Dan
\o/ Bman!
\o/ Bman!
Cadfael51 wrote in message ...
>Jerry Garcia seemed to favor playing in a mode that I'd like to know the
>name of.
>
>Can anyone help?
>
>A B C# D E F# G A
>
>Thanks...
>Neil
>
>
Peter Gay
fact a straight D major scale. If you play it you find it hard to stop at
the second A - you naturally want to go on to the next D up. I have no idea
whether it's Ionian or not, so did Garcia play across the key intentionally?
or did he just like the sound of a flattened seventh in his scales?
Pete
mc...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
> What is wierd about this is that the scale shown here is not in A but is in
> fact a straight D major scale. If you play it you find it hard to stop at
> the second A - you naturally want to go on to the next D up. I have no idea
> whether it's Ionian or not, so did Garcia play across the key intentionally?
> or did he just like the sound of a flattened seventh in his scales?
>
> Pete
You are right about the scale being the same as a D major, but this
is what modes are about. This is the A mixolydian scale. The same scale
tones taken from E to E would be E dorian. The phrasing and emphasis
as well as the chord progression where this is used would make it
quite clear that it is not A major.
But yeah, another way to describe the mixolydian is "just like the
major, only with a real cool sounding flatted 7th."
Mickey Yahoo-Mooshoo
Pitssburgh, PA
Kamchak Tuchuk
<pete...@southwestern.1way.co.uk> wrote:
>What is wierd about this is that the scale shown here is not in A but is in
>fact a straight D major scale. If you play it you find it hard to stop at
>the second A - you naturally want to go on to the next D up. I have no idea
>whether it's Ionian or not, so did Garcia play across the key intentionally?
>or did he just like the sound of a flattened seventh in his scales?
It's A Mixo, that's why. It's the mode based on
the fifth scale degree of the D Ionian that you're
hearing. Vamp on an A7 chord for a few measures
and play the scale as written. It might sound a
bit more correct to your ear then. But being as
it's a Dominant scale, it's more often than not,
used as a setup for a resolution to D.
Mixolydian is used in blues progressions a lot.
Try a 12 bar blues of G7, C7, D7 and play mixo's
on each. G mixo, C mixo, Dmixo. See how your ear
hears that.
Kris Hartung
: Funny, what I see is a major scale so it is an Ionian scale
: \o/ Bman!
What is wierd about this is that the scale shown here is not in A but is in
fact a straight D major scale. If you play it you find it hard to stop at
the second A - you naturally want to go on to the next D up. I have no idea
whether it's Ionian or not, so did Garcia play across the key intentionally?
or did he just like the sound of a flattened seventh in his scales?
Pete
Well, it can be whatever the hell we want it to be (modes
that is), in the key of D major, since we were not provided
with a context that revealed the function of the chord or changes
associated with the sequence of notes. The natural response
to interpret it as any one of the seven modes is entirely
subjective. It depends on what we are accustomed to hearing
and playing. Moreover, the original question is designed to
provoke ambiguous responses. If the question was, "What mode
is this sequence of notes consistent with?", then any of the seven
modes of the D major scale would be a correct answer. If the
question was, "Starting with A as the root, what mode is this?",
then the answer is obvious. Hence, it doesn't make much
sense to say what the sequence of notes "really" is. It's
best to say that it depends on the context, since it could
be interpreted as any of the seven modes in the key of
D major, yet not starting on the root of that particular
mode. What the original question really that nebulous?
I didn't think so.
Kris
Rich Johnson
> >A B C# D E F# G A
> Funny, what I see is a major scale so it is an Ionian scale
A major scale would have a G#. The flat 7 (G) makes it mixolydian.
John Sheehy
mc...@vms.cis.pitt.edu wrote :
>But yeah, another way to describe the mixolydian is "just like the
>major, only with a real cool sounding flatted 7th."
And a really cool diminished triad that sits on the 3rd, 5th, and b7th
scale members. If you can dwell on this triad without creating a need
to resolve to the relative Ionian, you have grabbed the marbles from the
masters hand.
Not A Speck Of Cereal
Is that where you put Ben and Jerry's on a hot piece o' pie?
----
"Contrary to popular opinion, facts are not established
by popular opinion." - Don Watson, ISPE
..............................................................
Remove X's from my email address above to reply
Xchr...@microsoft.comX -- Seattle, WA.
[These opinions are personal views only and only my personal views]
Kris Hartung
: > >A B C# D E F# G A
: > Funny, what I see is a major scale so it is an Ionian scale
: A major scale would have a G#. The flat 7 (G) makes it mixolydian.
This is what he means:
A B C# ( D E F# G A B C# D)
D Ionian
He is interpreting that A mixolydian as D ionian,
inverted by three scale tones. It's all the
same boring diatonicism, any way you arrange
it (IMO). That is why beyond internalizing all of
the modes and using them over various chord
functions, I don't get too excited about them.
It's the same dull major scale over and over
again, with no coloration or tension...(yawn).
kh
Richard Liang
> the community now agree that the Eb clarinet is no longer taboo.
Just stay away from the bass harmonica... it produces that frequency that the
military discovered induces diarrhea in the 50's (they discovered it in the 50's,
that is).
Richard
John Sheehy
khar...@boi.hp.com (Kris Hartung) wrote :
>Rich Johnson (rsjo...@naz.edu) wrote:
>
>: > >A B C# D E F# G A
>
>: > Funny, what I see is a major scale so it is an Ionian scale
>
>
>: A major scale would have a G#. The flat 7 (G) makes it mixolydian.
>
>This is what he means:
>
>A B C# ( D E F# G A B C# D)
>
> D Ionian
>
>He is interpreting that A mixolydian as D ionian,
>inverted by three scale tones.
One has to wonder why he did, because the only context provided was an A
to A spelling, implying that A was the tonal center (which may or may
not be true).
>It's all the
>same boring diatonicism, any way you arrange
>it (IMO).
No its not; the tonal center greatly affects the color of the notes.
>That is why beyond internalizing all of
>the modes and using them over various chord
>functions, I don't get too excited about them.
>It's the same dull major scale over and over
>again, with no coloration or tension...(yawn).
It's seven completely different scales, if you know what you're doing.
The Locrian and Lydian don't have any notes in common, other than the
root. Are you "tonal-center-deaf"?
Cadfael51
thought possible (more posts than letters in "mixolydian"), A is in fact
the root. Sorry if I was unclear.
Neil
--
John Sheehy said...
:In message <7dei1h$lb...@hpbs1500.boi.hp.com>,
: ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
:
--
====================================================
Unusual travel suggestions are dancing
lessons from God. - Bokonon
====================================================
Neil / ndu...@earthlink.gov (change gov to com)
Kris Hartung
: >
: >A B C# ( D E F# G A B C# D)
: >
: > D Ionian
: >
: >He is interpreting that A mixolydian as D ionian,
: >inverted by three scale tones.
: One has to wonder why he did, because the only context provided was an A
: to A spelling, implying that A was the tonal center (which may or may
: not be true).
: >It's all the
: >same boring diatonicism, any way you arrange
: >it (IMO).
: No its not; the tonal center greatly affects the color of the notes.
Cripes, you really misunderstood my comments. You better read
them again.
It's the same scale - D Ionion, A mixolydian, E Dorian, etc.
I'm not talking about A Mixolydian, A Ionion, A Dorian, etc.
Yes, it is all diatonic in the first case. For instance,
if you are in the key of C major, every mode of C major
is constituted by the notes of the C major scale. That's
diatonicicm. Perhaps you misunderstand what I was said.
How are you defining diatonicism?
: >That is why beyond internalizing all of
: >the modes and using them over various chord
: >functions, I don't get too excited about them.
: >It's the same dull major scale over and over
: >again, with no coloration or tension...(yawn).
: It's seven completely different scales, if you know what you're doing.
Ionian D E F# G A B C# D
Dorian E F# G A B C# D E
Phrygian F# G A B C# D E F#
Lydian G A B C# D E F# G
Mixylydian A B C# D E F# G A
Aeolian B C# D E F# G A B
Locrian C# D E F# G A B C#
It's all the same notes of the same
parent scale. That's diatonicism.
: The Locrian and Lydian don't have any notes in common, other than the
: root. Are you "tonal-center-deaf"?
I guess you really did miss the point. Read above and
you'll see what's going on. C# Locrian and G Lydian
do have the same notes. You sort of jumped the
gun with your attack her. I said:
"He is interpreting that A mixolydian as D ionian." I
was not equating A mixolydian with A ionion, as you
criticism implies.
Regards,
Kris
Marc R. Mercer
> >It's all the
> >same boring diatonicism, any way you arrange
> >it (IMO).
Wow, I heard some Azerbaijani music on NPR the other morning; 17
intervals. Now THAT was interesting.
Ben Keller
>
> : > Funny, what I see is a major scale so it is an Ionian scale
>
> : A major scale would have a G#. The flat 7 (G) makes it mixolydian.
>
>
> A B C# ( D E F# G A B C# D)
>
> D Ionian
>
> He is interpreting that A mixolydian as D ionian,
> same boring diatonicism, any way you arrange
> the modes and using them over various chord
> functions, I don't get too excited about them.
> It's the same dull major scale over and over
> again, with no coloration or tension...(yawn).
>
thats why heavy drug use is handy; you hit more "wrong" notes,
establishing coloration And tension, especially those shitty looks from
the keyboard player.
-keller
Pete Kerezman
>And a really cool diminished triad that sits on the 3rd, 5th, and b7th
>scale members. If you can dwell on this triad without creating a need
>to resolve to the relative Ionian, you have grabbed the marbles from the
>masters hand.
>--
Unfortunately the master has been unable to locate his marbles for
quite some time.
Texas Pete
John Sheehy
khar...@boi.hp.com (Kris Hartung) wrote :
>: >This is what he means:
>: >
>: >A B C# ( D E F# G A B C# D)
>: >
>: > D Ionian
>: >
>: >He is interpreting that A mixolydian as D ionian,
>: >inverted by three scale tones.
>
>: One has to wonder why he did, because the only context provided was an A
>: to A spelling, implying that A was the tonal center (which may or may
>: not be true).
>
>: >It's all the
>: >same boring diatonicism, any way you arrange
>: >it (IMO).
>
>: No its not; the tonal center greatly affects the color of the notes.
>
>Cripes, you really misunderstood my comments. You better read
>them again.
I say the same to you.
>It's the same scale - D Ionion, A mixolydian, E Dorian, etc.
No, it's not. The modes are scales themselves when their root is the
tonal center.
>I'm not talking about A Mixolydian, A Ionion, A Dorian, etc.
I know you're not. Never thought you were.
>Yes, it is all diatonic in the first case. For instance,
>if you are in the key of C major, every mode of C major
>is constituted by the notes of the C major scale. That's
>diatonicicm. Perhaps you misunderstand what I was said.
>How are you defining diatonicism?
My definition is something like "can be transposed to the white keys of
the piano". I wasn't criticizing your definition of "diatonicism". I
was criticizing your implication that there's a sameness to all the 7
modes in a key signature, and your blanket dismissal of diatonic
material as colorless and already fully explored.
>: >That is why beyond internalizing all of
>: >the modes and using them over various chord
>: >functions, I don't get too excited about them.
>: >It's the same dull major scale over and over
>: >again, with no coloration or tension...(yawn).
>: It's seven completely different scales, if you know what you're doing.
>Ionian D E F# G A B C# D
>Dorian E F# G A B C# D E
>Phrygian F# G A B C# D E F#
>Lydian G A B C# D E F# G
>Mixylydian A B C# D E F# G A
>Aeolian B C# D E F# G A B
>Locrian C# D E F# G A B C#
>It's all the same notes of the same
>parent scale. That's diatonicism.
>: The Locrian and Lydian don't have any notes in common, other than the
>: root. Are you "tonal-center-deaf"?
>I guess you really did miss the point.
I guess I did miss your point, because all I got out of your post was a
basic "yeah, I've done all that before, and now I've grown out of it"
type attitude.
>Read above and
>you'll see what's going on. C# Locrian and G Lydian
>do have the same notes.
They sure do, but if you can truly establish the purported root of each
mode as a tonal center, they sound very different.
>You sort of jumped the
>gun with your attack her. I said:
>
>"He is interpreting that A mixolydian as D ionian." I
>was not equating A mixolydian with A ionion, as you
>criticism implies.
That's not what I was "attacking". It was the rest of your post that I
was "attacking".
\o/ Bman!
I know I slipped up when I said Ionian I meant A Ionian. I did not catch
that G not being G# and it is a major scale that I was familiar with (D!) I
saw the tonal as A as written and as you know that there are seven modes
with 7 tonals in each mode I can't remember it all so I used major scales
just by moving the tonals. The threads that followed my remarks opened my
eyes and made me realize what's the hell I've been doing with my guitar.
Some I can play in a position mostly and some linearly. I don't hear very
well so I read the musics. No tabs. The key signatures usually tells me
what positions to be in but some linear playing was easier so I mixed them
in. I was learning music theory which is good to have behind you but it get
complicated as you learn more so I have to make it simplier some way and
enjoy the guitar. I can see you guys are musicians while I'm a player so
excuse my mistakes. Sometimes My musician friends stopped me and asked me
to show them that part I just did. That made me feel pretty good about
playing my guitar. Thanks and carry on! That's in D :)
\o/ Bman!
ljstarin
mixolydian mode. Long live the memory and the music of the launcher of a
thousand trips. RIP Jerry Garcia.
Brad McFarlane wrote in message ...
>> name of.
>>
>> Can anyone help?
>>
>>
>> Neil
>
>Is is mixolydian? It looks like the normal major scale (A B C# D E F# G# A)
>but with a flattened seventh (i.e., G instead of G#). Frank Zappa was also
>fond of this (and FZ admired Jeff Beck's use of it, too).
>
>Aloha,
>Brad
>
>--
>Brad McFarlane
>Newbridge Networks Corp.
>Kanata, Ont., CANADA
skla...@tc.umn.edu
Levin's "100,000 Fools of God." Great stuff, with a CD.
Steve Sklar/Big Sky email: skla...@tc.umn.edu
Guitarist/Producer/Throat Singer fax: (612) 521-0865
Big Sky Home Page: http://www.tc.umn.edu/~skla0003/Big_Sky.html
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Images of Tuva: http://www.cbc.umn.edu/~sklar/tpics.html
"It's all Folk Music...you ever hear a horse play music?"...Doc Watson
"Marc R. Mercer" wrote:
>
> Somebody wrote:
>
> > >It's all the
> > >same boring diatonicism, any way you arrange
> > >it (IMO).
>
Will Borgeson
: thats why heavy drug use is handy; you hit more "wrong" notes,
: establishing coloration And tension, especially those shitty looks from
: the keyboard player.
Right, whatever keyboard player is still alive! They went through a lot
of those...I'm glad that both Vince Welnick and Bruce Hornsby are still
with us.
Will
Andrew B. Sachs
>
>
> Right, whatever keyboard player is still alive! They went through a lot
> of those...I'm glad that both Vince Welnick and Bruce Hornsby are still
> with us.
>
> Will
I'd trade Keith for Vince any day.
Andrew
Kris Hartung
: No, it's not. The modes are scales themselves when their root is the
: tonal center.
So, when Miles was soloing over "So What" (improvising modally),
was he playing the Dorian mode, or just some scale? I
don't consider modes scales. A mode is a mode OF some
scale. If you treat a mode as a scale, then you have
to assume that there are modes of that scale, and so
on ad infinitum. We disagree over the definition of
a mode. I don't think of them as scales themselves.
You don't have to invoke the idea of a tonal center
to illustrate your point. I already understand it,
given your definitions.
: >diatonicicm. Perhaps you misunderstand what I was said.
: >How are you defining diatonicism?
: My definition is something like "can be transposed to the white keys of
: the piano". I wasn't criticizing your definition of "diatonicism". I
: was criticizing your implication that there's a sameness to all the 7
: modes in a key signature, and your blanket dismissal of diatonic
: material as colorless and already fully explored.
The ONLY sameness I was referring to was that they contain
the same notes and they can be interpreted as the same
scale (since this issue is subject to interpretation and
we don't always start playing a scale or mode on the
actual root). If I am improvising over G7 and I
hear G mixolydian, G being my tonal center), I don't
have to start with G (of course, this is a moot point).
I can start with D and think D dorian. You say that
you are not criticizing my definition, but my application.
However, my application flows from my definition. That's
why I don't think we are really arguing about anything
significant here.
: I guess I did miss your point, because all I got out of your post was a
: basic "yeah, I've done all that before, and now I've grown out of it"
: type attitude.
So what. I DID express my boredom as my own opinion. Are you
dictating what my attitude should be? I find diatonicism
boring. I find working with a tonal center and just
playing the respected mode/scale to be boring. I never
said that I had grown out of anything. You've created
a strawman.
: >Read above and
: >you'll see what's going on. C# Locrian and G Lydian
: >do have the same notes.
: They sure do, but if you can truly establish the purported root of each
: mode as a tonal center, they sound very different.
They only sound different over different vamps or chords. Yeah,
I already agree with your point. Where's the argument?
: >You sort of jumped the
: >gun with your attack her. I said:
: >
: >"He is interpreting that A mixolydian as D ionian." I
: >was not equating A mixolydian with A ionion, as you
: >criticism implies.
: That's not what I was "attacking". It was the rest of your post that I
: was "attacking".
What, my subjective approach? Are you going to attach my
affinity for the color blue now?
Kris