String "ZING", not buzz (PRS SAS)
Tom C.
D'Addario .095's. I've had the guitar set up by two different techs over the
past year or so, but always end up with the same problem. One of the techs
call it string zing, which is not the same thing as buzz. I have the action
set pretty low and don't know if that's the reason or not. I don't know how
to describe it except to say that some strings don't ring clearly, they have
this zinging sound to them. You can hear it and actually feel it when
playing the guitar UNamplified. Amplified, I can't say that you really
notice it, but I feel that it must be detracting from the sustain of the
string at least. The B string does this even when played open. A couple of
the other strings do it only when fretted. Does anyone know what the heck
I'm talking about? Does it matter? What's the cure? Thanks. -- tom c
lars hodegron
"Tom C." <nos...@nospam.nul> wrote in message
news:Qyocf.48363$ty1....@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
I had the same issue with a Strat clone I built, turned out that the nut was
cut and filed on too flat of an angle......it actually was "sloping" back
towards the fretboard side of the nut. It should follow the natural string
angle from what I understand, sloping towards the headstock.......anyway, I
re-angled the slot, and that fixed my issue.....might have a look at that.
RickH
The string is tapping the adjacent fret when picked too hard causing an
"impure" tone, it's still buzz by another name, buzz is buzz. I
ususally use .012's or .013's on my guitars so I never have this issue,
I can pretty much pick as hard as I want and they dont bottom out. I
dont know the scale length on that model but if it is like a Les Paul
scale (24 3/4) then .095's are definitely too thin for that scale
length, thin srings on a short scale have very little tension and act
more like rubber bands. I would go up to .010's or .011's and raise
the bridge action a little, and re-check the truss. Buzz will
definitly kill sustain, purity of tone and dynamic range, and most
guitars in general sound better with a higher action and fatter (1.5mm
to 3mm) pick.
PRS GEEK
"Tom C." <nos...@nospam.nul> wrote in message
news:Qyocf.48363$ty1....@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
PRSii come from the factory set up with .009's... You probably need a new
nut cut. I've had all mine replaced the minute I get a PRS because I use
10's. I know the sound you're talking about. Also, you need to clean any
gunk out of the bridge pieces. Mine get played a lot and leftover skin gets
in the bridge pieces and attracts dirt and turns black and the string will
sit on that crap. I use some very fine emery sandpaper (the black stuff) to
clean that stuff out. It works.
Also, my SAS had leftover nitrocellulose (or whatever it is) on the frets.
Made them look gold. Make sure you don't have any of that on your frets.
That really freaked me out when I discovered it. It kept coming off...! I
was like, WTF is this stuff?
PRS nuts are cut _very_ well from the factory though and that's the original
problem, IMO... But also cleaning the bridge gunk (if there is any) can also
add more ping to the notes.
Try that stuff and you'll be sittin' pretty. Caveat: you need an excellent
good luthier *familiar* with PRS to make a precise nut with the correct
height and angle. That IS key.
Jeff
Don Evans
news:Qyocf.48363$ty1....@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
Check, or have a tech check the bridge saddles to see if possibly they are
causing the buzz. Especially in the type of saddle on the SAS, the strings
can wear away at the high point of the saddle and cause buzzing, or "zing".
As the string wears the saddle, the saddle falls away from the string less
sharply and buzzes on the saddle itself. It's not as extreme, but it is
almost an electric sitar sort of effect. Try moving the string a little to
the side in the saddle if you can, and see if the sound changes. I think
the fix is to lightly re-shape the saddle with a file, or have a tech do it
if you don't feel confident.
You're right that it's less obvious amplified, but if you can get it to stop
by moving the string as I suggested, I think you'll find your tone is
fuller. I have a Strat that does it, and in some ways I like it, but if I
play through a bright amp the high notes can get pretty shrill. Also, as
the condition increases, and it might, you could start breaking strings from
the extra friction at the bridge.
Don
Tom C.
a name to it.
"Don Evans" <gtrdo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:KNSdnQFW54o...@comcast.com...
Don Evans
> Sitar! Who said that??? That's exactly the sound! Thanks for helping me
> put a name to it.
>
Cool, now try pushing the string to the side on the saddle to reseat it, and
see if the sitar tone changes or goes away. If it does, that's the problem.
Good luck,
Don
Ron.Th...@faa.gov
PRS GEEK wrote:
> Try that stuff and you'll be sittin' pretty. Caveat: you need an excellent
> good luthier *familiar* with PRS to make a precise nut with the correct
> height and angle. That IS key.
I don't own a PRS, but I have played and mauled an awful lot of them
while not finding one I would buy. The nuts on those guitars are no
different than any other nut. The tools needed can be found in almost
any household, and anyone handy with them and a little bit of time can
make one for his guitars the same as any other guitars.
PRS GEEK
<Ron.Th...@faa.gov> wrote in message
news:1131644530.2...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> PRS GEEK wrote:
>
>> Try that stuff and you'll be sittin' pretty. Caveat: you need an
>> excellent
>> good luthier *familiar* with PRS to make a precise nut with the correct
>> height and angle. That IS key.
>
> I don't own a PRS, but I have played and mauled an awful lot of them
> while not finding one I would buy. The nuts on those guitars are no
> different than any other nut.
Well, there are certain specifications that have to be correct and their
nut's are quite specific with regards to string height at the nut, angle and
width. Issa fact mang! You can't disregard that stuff.
> The tools needed can be found in almost
> any household, and anyone handy with them and a little bit of time can
> make one for his guitars the same as any other guitars.
I just know *I* wouldn't do it myself. Too many things to screw up.
I CAN trim my own fingernails, toe nails, nostril hair and eyebrows without
hurting myself tho!
Jeff
Ron.Th...@faa.gov
PRS GEEK wrote:
> > I don't own a PRS, but I have played and mauled an awful lot of them
> > while not finding one I would buy. The nuts on those guitars are no
> > different than any other nut.
> Well, there are certain specifications that have to be correct and their
> nut's are quite specific with regards to string height at the nut, angle and
> width. Issa fact mang! You can't disregard that stuff.
I didn't say to disregard it, I said they are no different than any
other nut. All nuts are quite specific with regard to height, angle,
width. These are not Mysterious Science Known Only To Paul, they
existed before both Paul and I started playing the guitar. Easy enough
to find out to, any repair/building book out there will show you how to
do it.
> I just know *I* wouldn't do it myself. Too many things to screw up.
Ok, but that isn't the same as saying you need a monk from a certain
mountain to Hand Craft a knut on a certain Tuesday with the wind just
right or some other guitarbaloney. No offense, dewd.
PRS GEEK
<Ron.Th...@faa.gov> wrote in message
news:1131977828.9...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
None taken bro... I was was just responding to the dudes post making
assumptions on his overall prowess of said instrument FROM that post,
ind33d!
Jeff...(Not a handy geetar reapair guy, but I can set them up with the best
of em!)
Ron.Th...@faa.gov
poster wrote about has never bothered me or my guitars or anyone that
has ever used them. If it was an acoustic I'd get my shorts knotted
about it for sure. Maybe. But not yer average lekkik.
Don Evans
<Ron.Th...@faa.gov> wrote in message
news:1131995951.2...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Sometimes it even gives the guitar more shimmer. But, like with my Graphtec
saddles especially, sometimes it can add a shrill overtone and at worst
decrease sustain with a little muting effect.
Don
Ron.Th...@faa.gov
>Sometimes it even gives the guitar more shimmer. But, like with my Graphtec
>saddles especially, sometimes it can add a shrill overtone and at worst
>decrease sustain with a little muting effect.
Well yeah, if I was having something like that happening I'd be fixing
stuff too. My Les Paul has a couple of wonky areas on the Gee and Bee
strings, but nothing that translates to an amp at all, just frets in
need of work probably. If I was having problems like you mention I
would find it and fix it.
Nil
news:Qyocf.48363$ty1....@bignews1.bellsouth.net:
> I've got a PRS Swamp Ash Special, maple neck, currently strung
> with D'Addario .095's. I've had the guitar set up by two different
> techs over the past year or so, but always end up with the same
> problem. One of the techs call it string zing, which is not the
> same thing as buzz. I have the action set pretty low and don't
> know if that's the reason or not. I don't know how to describe it
> except to say that some strings don't ring clearly, they have this
> zinging sound to them. You can hear it and actually feel it when
> playing the guitar UNamplified. Amplified, I can't say that you
> really notice it, but I feel that it must be detracting from the
> sustain of the string at least.
My PRS CE-24 does the same thing on the high e string. I really hate it
- it's like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. I have long suspected
that it's got something to do with the truss rod, but lately I've begun
to suspect the nut more. Which is good, because I can easily replace
the nut.
Odin
<Ron.Th...@faa.gov> wrote in message
If you can hear those nuances at a gig you ain't drinking
enough.
Don Evans
news:Xns970EA109...@216.196.97.136...
At the risk of repeating .... if the problem is still there when you fret a
note , it isn't the nut. And if it's on a lot of notes, especially in the
upper frets, it might be the bridge. For instance, my guitar was buzzing
on the top fret. It could only be the bridge. Your bridge saddle wears and
causes buzzing. It's pretty common, but if it's bad and it bothers you,
check out the point where the string crests the saddle. If you know how,
fix it, and if you don't, have a tech fix it.
Don
Nil
news:W6GdnSrG-c8qmeTe...@comcast.com:
> At the risk of repeating .... if the problem is still there when
> you fret a note , it isn't the nut.
I don't necessarily agree. In my case, the zing is audible when
fretting notes, but it's loudest with an open string. It sounds like
it's coming from the nut or elsewhere in the headstock area. Even if
you fret a note, the string still vibrates on the head side of the
fretted note, and it seems entirely possible that it could be enough to
excite the nut to the point where it would cause the noise in question.
On the other hand, I've suffed paper and other things in the nut slot,
and it still makes the noise. I suppose the next step would be to
remove the nut entirely. Maybe it's seated poorly in the slot.
In my case, I've checked out the bridge thoroughly, and I don't think
that's where the problem lies.
Ron.Th...@faa.gov
>fretting notes, but it's loudest with an open string. It sounds like
>it's coming from the nut or elsewhere in the headstock area. Even if
>you fret a note, the string still vibrates on the head side of the
>fretted note, and it seems entirely possible that it could be enough to
>excite the nut to the point where it would cause the noise in question.
>On the other hand, I've suffed paper and other things in the nut slot,
>and it still makes the noise. I suppose the next step would be to
>remove the nut entirely. Maybe it's seated poorly in the slot.
>In my case, I've checked out the bridge thoroughly, and I don't think
>that's where the problem lies.
Loose nut, shaft, washer, or kn0b on one of yer junky t00ners.
Nil
news:1132006122....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> Loose nut, shaft, washer, or kn0b on one of yer junky t00ners.
Been there, done that, too. I temporarily swapped the positions of two
of the PRS locking tuners... the zing still zang in the same place.
Odin
"Nil" <redn...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote in message
> > Loose nut, shaft, washer, or kn0b on one of yer junky
t00ners.
>
> Been there, done that, too. I temporarily swapped the
positions of two
> of the PRS locking tuners... the zing still zang in the
same place.
Turn up the amp.
Don Evans
"Nil" <redn...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote in message
news:Xns970EAC9D...@216.196.97.136...
Have you damped the strings above the nut? If it happens when strings are
fretted, and it's in the headstock area, it can only be sympathetic
vibration of some sort, right? stuff something under the strings and see
what that does.
Don
Nil
news:g78ef.13431$7h7....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com:
> Turn up the amp.
Well, that's been my solution so far, but I'd like to fix it for real
someday. I do like to play quietly sometimes and I'd like to do it
without the guitar causing me to grind my teeth.
Nil
> Have you damped the strings above the nut? If it happens when
> strings are fretted, and it's in the headstock area, it can only
> be sympathetic vibration of some sort, right? stuff something
> under the strings and see what that does.
Well, I guess this discussion will force me to get the thing out of
mothballs. I've had the CE-24 in the back of the closet for many
months. I've been intending to tackle this problem, and sell it if I
couldn't fix it. Maybe that's my next project.
I think I have tried stuff like wrapping bits of rag around the strings
above the nut. It's been a long time, but I don't remember that it
helped much. That's why I think the problem lies a little more deeply,
like a loose nut or worse, a vibration in the truss rod cavity.
Odin
"Nil" <redn...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote in message
> > Turn up the amp.
>
> Well, that's been my solution so far, but I'd like to fix
it for real
> someday. I do like to play quietly sometimes and I'd like
to do it
> without the guitar causing me to grind my teeth.
My PRS Custom 22 has a little bit of the same problem, but
it didn't always. I attribute this to me changing from the
factory set up .009's to .010's without a setup change.
Also to my to my drunken string changes in various bars over
the years, causing the height of the bridge to change. It's
never been set up since I got it and it still plays great.
Nil
> My PRS Custom 22 has a little bit of the same problem, but
> it didn't always. I attribute this to me changing from the
> factory set up .009's to .010's without a setup change.
> Also to my to my drunken string changes in various bars over
> the years, causing the height of the bridge to change. It's
> never been set up since I got it and it still plays great.
It's interesting that you say that. So have a couple of other people in
this thread, including the original poster. I'm beginnning to believe
that it's common among PRS guitars. A "bug", if you like.
The main reason that I suspect the nut is that the only other guitar
I've ever owned that had this symptom is my tele-like partsocaster. It
made a very similar noise - a subtle zing on one or two strings that
seemed to come from the vicintity of the headstock, but couldn't be
easily located. I replaced the first nut I had cut with another one
that I had also cut, and the noise went away.
Don Evans
OK here's a really out in left field idea. Could the strings be
sympathetically vibrating between your finger/fret and the nut? It does
happen sometimes on one of my guitars, but they don't buzz (they just give
odd overtones). Buzzing or rattling could be because of the way PRS does
the nut. Weird idea, but ...
And with that, any possible credibility is now gone.
Don
PRS GEEK
<Ron.Th...@faa.gov> wrote in message
news:1131995951.2...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Actually, I use a trem a lot and it wears on my nuts (uhhhh)... So, actually
owning a SAS and it's happening right at this moment with that geetar,
etc... I dropped the thing off to have a crown and a nut job (today). A dude
that deals in PRS and knows his stuff. I "feel" like the string is being
pinched even if I only hear it acoustically. I definitely don't trust myself
on a nut job.
Word!
Jeff
PRS GEEK
"Odin" <amsp...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:N77ef.16633$q%.6370@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
Yeah... But ya know... If I hear the guitar pinging when I'm stringing up
before a gig, I'm happy... If my nuts are being squeezed, I'm only happy
when it's not the geetar...
Jeff
PRS GEEK
"Nil" <redn...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote in message
Almost definitely the nut... them PRS nuts wear down. I know for a fact.
I've had almost all my nuts replaced several times because of this *sitar
effect"...
If anyone ever reads this thread at my office they'll have a field day with
it.
Jeff
PRS GEEK
"Nil" <redn...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote in message
> On 14 Nov 2005, "Don Evans" <gtrdo...@aol.com> wrote in
> news:W6GdnSrG-c8qmeTe...@comcast.com:
>
>> At the risk of repeating .... if the problem is still there when
>> you fret a note , it isn't the nut.
>
> I don't necessarily agree. In my case, the zing is audible when
> fretting notes, but it's loudest with an open string. It sounds like
> it's coming from the nut or elsewhere in the headstock area. Even if
> you fret a note, the string still vibrates on the head side of the
> fretted note, and it seems entirely possible that it could be enough to
> excite the nut to the point where it would cause the noise in question.
> On the other hand, I've suffed paper and other things in the nut slot,
> and it still makes the noise. I suppose the next step would be to
> remove the nut entirely. Maybe it's seated poorly in the slot.
I agree..
> In my case, I've checked out the bridge thoroughly, and I don't think
> that's where the problem lies.
Still, hand gunk and dead dirty skin can in on the bridge pieces. i clean
that stuff all the time, but the OP wasn't reading, I guess.
Jeff
PRS GEEK
"Nil" <redn...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote in message
Nil... Get that nut properly replaced by someone who's knows how to it right
and clean out the bridge pieces. It should be fine. 2 out of my 3 PRS have
done it recently (I haven't played the other enough). I swear it's the
friggin' nuts wear down. Especially if you put 10's on them when they come
set up from the factory with 9-42.
"Ping"...
Jeff
PRS GEEK
"Don Evans" <gtrdo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:7-GdnTipVes...@comcast.com...
For a while I thought it was a part of my pup buzzing, but it went away with
a nut job...
> And with that, any possible credibility is now gone.
PRS lost credibility when......... ;-)
Jeff
RickH
bridge to the point where the buzz stops at what you would call your
"hardest" picking.
Nil
news:aSeef.87$Zb...@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net:
> Nil... Get that nut properly replaced by someone who's knows how
> to it right and clean out the bridge pieces. It should be fine. 2
> out of my 3 PRS have done it recently (I haven't played the other
> enough). I swear it's the friggin' nuts wear down. Especially if
> you put 10's on them when they come set up from the factory with
> 9-42.
OK, you talked me into it.
I did take it to be checked out by the Boston area's favorite guitar
repair guy a while back. He claimed he couldn't hear or feel the sound
I've been referring to. I've come to the conclusion that he's partly
deaf and burned out on the business. I've got to find someone I trust.
And I do use 10s. I wonder if the problem would go away if I went back
to 9s?
PRS GEEK
"Nil" <redn...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote in message
You could try that first, but, IMO if you use the trem you start sawing
those nuts lower anyway. That's what I do and that's why they have to be
replaced. they aren't bone, eh?
Jeff
Nil
> You could try that first, but, IMO if you use the trem you start
> sawing those nuts lower anyway. That's what I do and that's why
> they have to be replaced. they aren't bone, eh?
Mine's graphite, I think. I know that's soft stuff and I should expect
it to wear away after while. I guess that's part of what makes the PRS
tremolo system so nice.
PRS GEEK
"Nil" <redn...@REMOVETHIScomcast.net> wrote in message
Totally agreed... Just takes a while, and a bunch of 'em to figure out the
weaknesses, I suppose.
Nil
news:gtkmn1tleorfjhf09...@4ax.com:
> Mouradian?
I regretted posting that comment after I did, but, yeah. They're the
most high-profile shop around, and they're always busy, but there have
been a few situations that have made me wish there was some viable
alternative.
Ron.Th...@faa.gov
>I think I have tried stuff like wrapping bits of rag around the strings
>above the nut. It's been a long time, but I don't remember that it
>helped much. That's why I think the problem lies a little more deeply,
>like a loose nut or worse, a vibration in the truss rod cavity.
CIGARETTE BUTTS