Celestion Speaker, Marshall cabinet question(s)
Neal Winslow
In article <DqJuD...@mail.auburn.edu>, swa...@mail.auburn.edu wrote:
>I recently opened my Marshall 1922 2x12 speaker cabinet. Why? I wanted
>to know what kind of speakers were in it. (Celestion 75s)
>I might be able to buy 2 speakers for $200 as
>opposed to a new cabinet for $500.
>>--
>David Swanger
David,
I have a couple of suggestions on speakers. You might want to consider
MoJo-Tone speakers. Their 10" Jensen copies are used by several of the
"boutique" amp makers (Buddah, Victoria, for example). I recently wanted
to replace the Altec in my '82 Fender Concert which sounded serile and
harsh. I tried two different MoJo-Tones - both have alnico magnets with
gives them a sweet, rich (there are those pesky adjectives again) sound.
Both are 12". The M121660, rated 60 watts, has a very nice warm, balanced
sound. Great for blues, country, general rock. You might want to try
this speaker. Very detailed and dynamic. I chose the M12B (British
sound), rated 80 watts, more colored speaker, less treble and more bass
than the above, fat but smooth. Was able to get a nice Marshally sound
with the gain channel. I would guess that the M12B is pretty close to the
Celestion 75s in your cab. Both speakers list for $80 but Torres sells the
M121660 for $49. The M12B is $59. Overall the $59 I spent on the the
speaker has made a much bigger improvement than the $200 (and lots of
time) spent messing around with the tubes. MoJo also has a new repro of
the Vintage 30, ceramic magnet, 50 watts, $55 (I haven't heard this
speaker myself).
Kendrick black-frames also sound pretty good ( I don't think they are
as warm sounding as the MoJos ) but are much more expensive ($109 ea.)
I also like JBLs but there's some BIG bucks there.
See if you can find a dealer in your area who carries MoJos and will let
you try one out in your cab. (some will, some won't)
Good luck, the speaker has more influence on the sound of the amp than any
other component, therefor you can really influence the sound of your amp
by the speaker you select. Trust your ears.
Neal
David Swanger
I recently opened my Marshall 1922 2x12 speaker cabinet. Why? I wanted
to know what kind of speakers were in it. When I bought the cabinet (from
Manny's), I asked the salesman what was in it and he told me "some kind of
Celestions" (for those of you who wonder why I would buy a speaker cab
before hearing it, I live in the boonies and am many miles from a good
music store and I needed a stereo guitar cabinet, so I took a chance on
the 1922, but I digress).
It's a decent sounding cabinet. It sounds much better with my JMP-1,MB
50/50 rack than it does with my Soldano HR50. It seems to like that
generic, processed rock sound (for want of a better term), but some of the
rawness of the Soldano seems to get lost when connected to this cabinet
(I've got an old Sunn cab with 2 EV's in it that sounds pretty decent with
the Soldano, but is a bit harsh with the rack).
Where was I? Oh yeah, I opened the cabinet and there are 2 Celestion
G12T-75 speakers inside. I have not had a lot of experience with
Celestion speakers. Over the years, I've used EV's, various Fender
speakers, Altecs and Jensens (among others). These Celestions remind me
somewhat of the speakers that were in a Fender Twin I bought 6 years ago
(now gone). I guess my first question is, how does the sound of this
speaker compare to other Celestion speakers such at the "Vintage 30"
and/or "Greenback"? I've seen these speakers mentioned a lot in the
guitar groups, but I haven't used them much.
I did play the Soldano HR50 through a 2x12 Soldano cab with V30's in the
store (I do get out of the boonies now and then). It sounded "warmer" and
"richer" than my Marshall cab that was sitting next to it. It was
noticeably "bigger" sounding (man, I hate these guitar-sound adjectives).
However, the Soldano cabinet was much bigger than the Marshall (more air
inside), plus it was made out of birch playwood as opposed to the
Marshall's particle board, so I wasn't sure if it sounded better because
of the speakers or cabinet design. That is, how different would my
Marhsall cab sound if it had the same V30's from the Soldano cab? Would
it be a subtle difference or would it be drastic? BTW, I wouldn't
want to limit myself to Celestions if anyone has any other suggestions.
Also, is there a way that I could easily "stiffen" up the Marshall
cabinet? There are a few real wood braces in there, but there aren't any
braces along the front. Would more wooden braces improve the tone or am I
just wasting my time?
I guess I could just go out and buy a new 2x12 cabinet, but money is not
unlimited right now. I might be able to buy 2 speakers for $200 as
opposed to a new cabinet for $500. I would only want to do this if I
thought it would improve my sound with the Soldano. I suppose I could
always sell the Marshall cabinet and use the money to help finance a new
cabinet, but I like the size and portability of the Marshall cabinet
(plus, it looks pretty cool too, although that is not a major factor). I
would really like to have one cabinet that sounds good with both the
Soldano and the rack, but I might be asking too much here.
Oh well, if anyone has any insight into my ramblings and could send
me some help, I would appreciate it.
--
David Swanger
Division of University Computing
Auburn University, Alabama
swa...@mail.auburn.edu
Mark Garvin
In <DqJuD...@mail.auburn.edu> swa...@mail.auburn.edu (David Swanger) writes:
>That is, how different would my
>Marhsall cab sound if it had the same V30's from the Soldano cab?
The T75's are Marshall's 'stock' speaker at present. They are
a bit more 'airy' and distant sounding, compared to the V30's.
V30's have a very forward, pronounced high-mid response. And
they are louder (more efficient) than the T75's. The strong
mid response may be part of the reason for their rep for
weak bass response. I don't think that they put out less
bass, but the mids overwhelm the bass to some extent.
Many people love V30's. I personally don't. Too agressive.
But they'll sound nice with the right amp.
That's another reason that this whole 'how does a speaker sound?'
question gets tough. They'll sometimes change completely with
a different amp, as you noticed.
Mark Garvin
Jack A. Zucker
Mark Garvin wrote:
Has anyone auditioned the "chemical" speaker mods (Matchless) that some
of the companies are using to age their speakers ?
-Jaz
--
>
> Jack A. Zucker | ESP Music
> j...@en.com or | Voice: 216 349 5881 (home)
> Jack....@software.rockwell.com | Voice: 216 646 7796 (work)
> | Fax: 216 646 7766 (work)
Dave Cigna
In article <318361...@en.com>, Jack A. Zucker <j...@en.com> wrote:
>
>Has anyone auditioned the "chemical" speaker mods (Matchless) that some
>of the companies are using to age their speakers ?
I haven't auditioned them, but would be interested in hearing about
the process. Is this the same thing that was mentioned in the GP amp
summit a few months ago? They gave the impression that Matchless
was doing something pretty abusive to their V30s before installing
them, but left the actual process cloaked in secrecy. Can anyone
offer any details at all?
-- Dave Cigna
Robert Fries
win...@aplatform.com (Neal Winslow) wrote:
>In article <DqJuD...@mail.auburn.edu>, swa...@mail.auburn.edu wrote:
>>I recently opened my Marshall 1922 2x12 speaker cabinet. Why? I wanted
>>to know what kind of speakers were in it. (Celestion 75s)
>>I might be able to buy 2 speakers for $200 as
>>opposed to a new cabinet for $500.
>>>--
>>David Swanger
>David,
>Neal
A small point - the M12B has a ceramic magnet. I haven't seen the
121660, but I'm pretty sure that's a ceramic magnet also.
Robert
*****************
Robert Fries
rfr...@netcom.com
*****************
Jeff Vineburg
"Jack A. Zucker" <j...@en.com> wrote:
>Mark Garvin wrote:
>Has anyone auditioned the "chemical" speaker mods (Matchless) that some
>of the companies are using to age their speakers ?
I use my own method.
Now don't tell anyone, as it's my patented secret, but here goes:
I buy a new Celestion and put in in a cab.
Then I sit the cab next to an old tweed Fender.
Between the dust (who can be bothered to clean?) and the age of the
tweed, the speaker gets to feeling inadequate and either `vintages up'
quickly, or craps out altogether, at which point I sell it to Peavey.
Remember: our little secret.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Vineburg je...@netaxs.com Nuclear Fish nuke...@netaxs.com
http://www.netaxs.com/~jeffv http://www.netaxs.com/~nukefish
lefty guitar info, musical humor song parodies, as heard on Stern show
vrd...@intex.net
RE: Your question about speakers
Where was I? Oh yeah, I opened the cabinet and there are 2 Celestion
G12T-75 speakers inside. I have not had a lot of experience with
Celestion speakers. Over the years, I've used EV's, various Fender
speakers, Altecs and Jensens (among others). These Celestions remind me
somewhat of the speakers that were in a Fender Twin I bought 6 years ago
(now gone). I guess my first question is, how does the sound of this
speaker compare to other Celestion speakers such at the "Vintage 30"
and/or "Greenback"? I've seen these speakers mentioned a lot in the
guitar groups, but I haven't used them much.
_________________
If you are going to get all your sounds through your pre-amp (high gain
distortion) instead of letting the amp distort, you probably need cleaner
speakers with higher headroom. You may already be aware of this, but
Celestions generally break up at lower volumes. the GT75 is the Celestion
industry standard (it is there standard 4x12 cab). The V30s, to me, have
less bass than the GT75s, and seem to have a smoother distortion sound.
If you are after an alternative rock grind...seems that you would like
the 75s better. The Greenbacks breakup even easier than the V30s. I play
a 50 watt Marshall with a master volume (JCM800), and I like the speakers
to break up easier (good blues, classic rock, Trapeeze type sound). I use
GT65s (the predecessors of the 75s). I believe it's the same speaker
Malmsteem uses, if that impresses you...it doesn't me. You have to grin a
bit when you write in these newsgroups.
A friend I have plays through a Digitech 2101, with an ADA 150 (or
so) power watt amp. He first played through two Celestion 70 watt
speakers. His sound was too bass heavy, muddy, and with all the
processing he used he seemed like he did not have enough power. Listening
to his band play for I while, I reasoned with him that if his tastes were
to use heavily processed sounds with a preamp...that he really needed a
speaker that was neutral and did little to color his sound (he wanted his
processed sound just like it sounded through headphones or direct to a PA
board. He mikes the whole band with one monster PA. Anyway, I convinced
him to try a pair of EV Pro-line 300 watt speakers. When they came in,
and he installed them, his sound went from muddy and buried by the rest
of the band...to monsterous. You could hear every nuance of chorused,
delayed or reverbed sound with clarity. The different distortion tectures
he wanted came out beautifully.
Now on the other hand, that type of speaker would ruin the tube type
overdrive that I get out of my Marshall. If I need clean processed sounds
I run that side of my rig through a Fender Concert 4x10. I love the
Fender chimey clean twang. A different Celestion that I liked in my
Fender Bandmaster 2x12 cabinet was a Celestion G12L 30 watt Anniversary
speaker. They were about $50 each at Guitar Center. Good vintage speaker
that's cleaner than the usual Celestion, but more hard rock than Jensen
or the Emminence (Sovtek) speakers that Fender uses now.
Good luck on your quest for tone and greener pastures.
David Swanger
David Swanger (swa...@mail.auburn.edu) wrote:
: I recently opened my Marshall 1922 2x12 speaker cabinet. Why? I wanted
Well, I got a few responses (thanks to all who answered my questions), and
I left the cabinet open for a few days and finally I decided to just
assemble the cabinet and leave it alone. Money is a little tight right
now and I don't need to spend any $$$ on speakers. Besides, the recessed
handles might make it difficult to install any speakers with large, wide
frames.
I did decide to replace the wires inside the cabinet. Someone mentioned
that Marshall uses tiny wire in their cabinets these days and sure enough,
the wire connecting the input jacks to the speakers was about 20 gauge or
so (maybe 18 gauge). I had some 16 gauge wire lying around, so I
disconnected the old wire and soldered some 16 gauge wire in its place.
During this process, I discovered that the input jacks on the cabinet were
made of plastic. Even the nut holding the jack to the cabinet is made of
plastic. There is the minimum amount of metal in these jacks for them to
work and the rest is plastic. The jacks feel cheap and flimsy. I must
confess that I was really upset with Marshall when I discovered that the
jacks were plastic. Maybe I overreacted, but this is Marshall, the
company of Jimi Hendrix, Duane Allman, Cream, etc... For some reason, I
expected something better from them (I'm not sure why, people have been
bitching about Marshall's quality on the net for months now and I've
chosen to ignore most of these complaints). I mean, how much money do
they save per cabinet by using plastic jacks and cheap wire? $1.00 (U.S.)
maybe? I'll pay the extra, Jim! Sheesh...
Anyway, I connected the new wires and before I put the back on the
cabinet, I tried it with my Soldano just make sure the solder connections
worked. The connections worked, plus the sound was kind of pleasing with
the back of the cabinet off, not unlike a Fender amp's sound. I was
tempted to leave the back off, but there wasn't enough protection or bass,
so I put the back on and tried it again. I can honestly say...that it
couldn't tell much difference. I wanted to think that there was a little
more low end, but I wan't sure. Ok, so maybe the bigger wires didn't make
much difference. I'll take it to a job this weekend, really crank the amp
and see for sure.
I was just now thinking about getting one of those big Soldano 2x12 cabs
(Birch Plywood, large box, V30's, etc), when the seller of my upcoming
house purchase walked by my desk and asked me a question about our
upcoming closing. I think I'll take that as a sign that I don't need to
buy any new gear right now...
Nick Schepis
swa...@mail.auburn.edu (David Swanger) wrote:
>Where was I? Oh yeah, I opened the cabinet and there are 2 Celestion
>G12T-75 speakers inside. I have not had a lot of experience with
>Celestion speakers. Over the years, I've used EV's, various Fender
>speakers, Altecs and Jensens (among others). These Celestions remind me
>somewhat of the speakers that were in a Fender Twin I bought 6 years ago
>(now gone). I guess my first question is, how does the sound of this
>speaker compare to other Celestion speakers such at the "Vintage 30"
>and/or "Greenback"? I've seen these speakers mentioned a lot in the
>guitar groups, but I haven't used them much.
>
My main gigging amp is a JCM800 2X12 100 watt combo which uses these
speakers. The tone is big, fat and round. Only catch is you really have
to pump the current through them to make them talk. These are the only
Celestions I've ever played through an open-back design that could deliver
the low-end wallop and still maintain a sweet transparent mid. Try it
with the back off the cab and see what you think.
NS
Dr Distortion
: >Has anyone auditioned the "chemical" speaker mods (Matchless) that some
I don't know about Matchless, but I have my own special "chemical"
treatment for speakers. I drink a pot of coffee, smoke ten cigarettes,
then take a dump right on the cone. Why? I guess I'm just after a "brown"
sound.
:)
higain
>David Swanger (swa...@mail.auburn.edu) wrote:
>
>: I recently opened my Marshall 1922 2x12 speaker cabinet. Why? I
I replaced a Marshall 1922 2x12 cab's Celestion 75's with V30's and
there was a LARGE difference in tone. The V30's gave a much bigger
lower Midrange. I understand V30's are very cabinet sensitive so diff.
cabs may sound different. With diff. heads too, there is a big
difference. With my 5150 head, the lows and midrange is SO pronounced
that it really TAKES you head off, almost too much. For a really
aggressive tone it ok but I actually prefer the 5150 with a 2x12 I have
with an EV and Cel.90 - tons of Lows but not so MID heavy. The V30's in
the Marshall 1922 sound v.good with Fender amps and with my Marshall
2550 Sil.Aniv. head.
Its REALLY amazing how speakers and cabs affect tone, huh. I've got a
Fender Super'60 head that I thought was OK, but never was really excited
by it, UNTIL I plugged it into a Boogie 1x12 Theile cab with an EV 12L
in it! WOW! The bottom end just exploded - made it a COMPLETELY
different amp. I love a really tight and full bottom end and this just
shakes the house at the foundation. The Super'60 still isn't good for
super higain stuff, but the clean channel is real nice and the O.D.
channel just smokes for the medium gain blues stuff. But even changing
to the marshall 1922 w/ V30's changes the tone - the EV12L is make for
that amp.
Anyone use a Peavey 30 with ext. speakers that they esp. like?
Carl Fiadino
Jeff Vineburg
>During this process, I discovered that the input jacks on the cabinet were
>made of plastic. Even the nut holding the jack to the cabinet is made of
>plastic. There is the minimum amount of metal in these jacks for them to
Yeah, that's typical Marshall. Those wacky Brits use wacky Brit jacks
for all their connections.